June 4, 201213 yr The obesity discussion breaks out into the real world: http://www.thaivisa....50#entry5360793 Well, to be honest, it broke out in that thread because you introduced it.
June 4, 201213 yr The obesity discussion breaks out into the real world: http://www.thaivisa....50#entry5360793 Well, to be honest, it broke out in that thread because you introduced it. Huh? Those chronic diseases are directly tied to obesity.
June 4, 201213 yr Obesity rates grow annually in countries like Austalia, Thailand, the USA. They don't go down. If very many were curing their obesity the rates would be going down every year, not UP every year. The reality is very few are curing their obesity. That ain't rocket science. Sorry, I think that anyone who seriously believes that a large percentage of obese people cure themselves for life with diet and exercise doesn't even understand the basic facts about this epidemic. It's head in the sand level, speaking of sand. Taking away the Xbox/Playstation will do wonders for the obesity "epidemic". And the remote for the TV and Dial-a-Pizza, and KFC, and McD's and maid service, and electric lawn mowers, washing machines etc It's quite amazing how much this fat virus has spread with so little help, and quite astounding how this illness didn't thrive in the days of walking, wash boards and having to stand up to change the channel. I actually never said one word about a fat virus. Again, read my posts.
June 4, 201213 yr The obesity discussion breaks out into the real world: http://www.thaivisa....50#entry5360793 Well, to be honest, it broke out in that thread because you introduced it. Huh? Those chronic diseases are directly tied to obesity. No. You brought it up, if you find that so hard to understand there is no hope for you, and I don't think you are that dumb.
June 4, 201213 yr Obesity rates grow annually in countries like Austalia, Thailand, the USA. They don't go down. If very many were curing their obesity the rates would be going down every year, not UP every year. The reality is very few are curing their obesity. That ain't rocket science. Sorry, I think that anyone who seriously believes that a large percentage of obese people cure themselves for life with diet and exercise doesn't even understand the basic facts about this epidemic. It's head in the sand level, speaking of sand. Taking away the Xbox/Playstation will do wonders for the obesity "epidemic". And the remote for the TV and Dial-a-Pizza, and KFC, and McD's and maid service, and electric lawn mowers, washing machines etc It's quite amazing how much this fat virus has spread with so little help, and quite astounding how this illness didn't thrive in the days of walking, wash boards and having to stand up to change the channel. I actually never said one word about a fat virus. Again, read my posts. I have read your posts, all of them, some twice just to make sure. The fat virus comment was of my own creation to indicate a blame shift of your creation.
June 4, 201213 yr Yes, you made it up. I did write about lots of other factors that are relevant in ADDITION to diet and exercise which everyone already knows about as a GIVEN. The blame shift manufactured accusation thing, what is this? Some kind of Ayn Rand/Libertarian/anti-science obsession?
June 4, 201213 yr The obesity discussion breaks out into the real world: http://www.thaivisa....50#entry5360793 Well, to be honest, it broke out in that thread because you introduced it. Huh? Those chronic diseases are directly tied to obesity. No. You brought it up, if you find that so hard to understand there is no hope for you, and I don't think you are that dumb. Did it not fit well with the topic?
June 4, 201213 yr Some kind of Ayn Rand/Libertarian/anti-science obsession? You mean the one about avoiding reality, well, yes, can't fault that one, dare you to.
June 4, 201213 yr Some kind of Ayn Rand/Libertarian/anti-science obsession? You mean the one about avoiding reality, well, yes, can't fault that one, dare you to. I don't follow you. Really. I'm not kidding. I don't follow you.
June 4, 201213 yr Well, to be honest, it broke out in that thread because you introduced it. Huh? Those chronic diseases are directly tied to obesity. No. You brought it up, if you find that so hard to understand there is no hope for you, and I don't think you are that dumb. Did it not fit well with the topic? No, not really, it highlighted your agenda and insecurities, nothing else.
June 4, 201213 yr No, not really, it highlighted your agenda and insecurities, nothing else. Funny. Some other posters seemed to like it and respond to it quite intelligently. Much unlike the vitriol/creepy lack of compassion against obesity sufferers here in the armpit section. Maybe it's because that was about THAI people not foreigners. More sympathy to them perhaps.
June 4, 201213 yr I did write about lots of other factors that are relevant in ADDITION to diet and exercise which everyone already knows about as a GIVEN. Diet and exercise are now relevant factors? So, after 8 pages it is finally sinking in. Good.
June 4, 201213 yr No, not really, it highlighted your agenda and insecurities, nothing else. Funny. Some other posters seemed to like it and respond to it quite intelligently. Much unlike the vitriol/creepy lack of compassion against obesity sufferers here in the armpit section. Maybe it's because that was about THAI people not foreigners. More sympathy to them perhaps. The armpit section? Well done, alienate yourself even further.
June 4, 201213 yr No, not really, it highlighted your agenda and insecurities, nothing else. Funny. Some other posters seemed to like it and respond to it quite intelligently. Much unlike the vitriol/creepy lack of compassion against obesity sufferers here in the armpit section. Maybe it's because that was about THAI people not foreigners. More sympathy to them perhaps. There you go again. Insulting people whose opinions are different to yours.
June 4, 201213 yr I did write about lots of other factors that are relevant in ADDITION to diet and exercise which everyone already knows about as a GIVEN. Diet and exercise are now relevant factors? So, after 8 pages it is finally sinking in. Good. You clearly have not read my posts if you think I EVER asserted that diet and exercise are not important. I merely voiced the views of MAINSTREAM SCIENCE that obesity is a complex thing in cause and potential cure, and it's not the simplistic morality tale that some of you are promoting.
June 4, 201213 yr No, not really, it highlighted your agenda and insecurities, nothing else. Funny. Some other posters seemed to like it and respond to it quite intelligently. Much unlike the vitriol/creepy lack of compassion against obesity sufferers here in the armpit section. Maybe it's because that was about THAI people not foreigners. More sympathy to them perhaps. There you go again. Insulting people whose opinions are different to yours. Defending myself against mean spirited snarky personal attacks, more like. Chicken and egg?
June 4, 201213 yr No, not really, it highlighted your agenda and insecurities, nothing else. Funny. Some other posters seemed to like it and respond to it quite intelligently. Much unlike the vitriol/creepy lack of compassion against obesity sufferers here in the armpit section. Maybe it's because that was about THAI people not foreigners. More sympathy to them perhaps. The armpit section? Well done, alienate yourself even further. There are worse sections.
June 4, 201213 yr Okay gentleman, let me interject this in this argument. When I was 16 I was a Decathlete, I helped out on my friends farm and hand balled up to 15 tons of merchandise every day. At 18 I was in the Territorial Army, running 3 miles in 18 minutes with full kit. At 18 I developed a condition on my back which required surgery. I was laid up for 3 months and gained 20 kg. That was the start of the battle of my life, and I know what the problem is/are. I turn to food when stressed, not cigs, not alcohol, not drugs, food. The more abusive and bad for you the better. So that's part psychological. At my worst I went to 185kg in 2007, but here's a shocker for you. Massive as I was I could outrun and out-train most of the guys in this forum. Last year I was training 5 to 6 hours a day with my Muay Thai trainer. At that point I weighed about 150kg, would you have thought that possible? A guy that size training intensely for 5 plus hours a day? Recently I was walking 7 to 9 miles a day, eating correctly and losing just a little bit of weight. I now weigh about 140kg, I'm over 6 foot tall. Tomorrow I will jump on my bike and cycle about 12 miles. What I am saying is that I'm cardiovascularly fitter than the majority of guys my age, I'm stronger, I have more endurance, and more knowledge than most on how to lose weight. So what's the problem? Why am I not 90kg? It's to do with going through cycles of abuse then traininh, it's to do with the psychological/physiological. It's the battle of my life. If you met me though you would be astounded, yes, big guy, big gut, but agile, always dancing and messing around. 140kg of fat guy that has skinny guys walking out of the gym in amazement. Here is the root problem with fat loss though....you cannot abstain from food, food is your weapon of abuse, any alcoholics, smokers, gambling addicts or drug addicts reading this, your lucky, you can abstain. Did you know you were lucky? YOU CAN'T ABSTAIN FROM FOOD. It's a daily torture for the carb addict, for the self abuser, the comfort eater, the secret eater, you can go all day perfect then hammer 3000 cals in 10 minutes. We are surrounded by our poison every day, every where we go. So Isanbirder, I've seen you address this subject before, your long on opinion and short on empathy, maybe you are one of the people blessed with a life with no addictions, or maybe you are a hypocrite, I don't know, but ssshht, there are hundreds of millions of people fighting this horrific battle every day, and we are not bad people, we are not evil people, we are struggling against a modern lifestyle epidemic. Judgement is not yours, we judge ourselves every minute of every day, and every day is a trial. You have no idea how much I would love to have the easy option of abstention, I wish I was an alcoholic, or smoker, or junkie, it would be easier to quit any of them than this. Ps I had the gastric band fitted, that was a mistake Pps I'm happy to answer any questions you have, and I am delighted to take any constructive criticism and advice. Sorry for wasting the tempo of the topic, but as they say, better out than in :-)
June 4, 201213 yr No, not really, it highlighted your agenda and insecurities, nothing else. Funny. Some other posters seemed to like it and respond to it quite intelligently. Much unlike the vitriol/creepy lack of compassion against obesity sufferers here in the armpit section. Maybe it's because that was about THAI people not foreigners. More sympathy to them perhaps. There you go again. Insulting people whose opinions are different to yours. Defending myself against mean spirited snarky personal attacks, more like. Chicken and egg? Please point to us to a 'mean spirited snarky personal attack' against you in this thread.
June 4, 201213 yr It's a daily torture for the carb addict, for the self abuser, I hate to burst your bubble but it's not true what your Mum told you about self abuse. You won't go blind. You won't grow hairs on the palms of your hands. No kittens will die. The only reason your Mum told you all that stuff was that she got tired of doing your laundry
June 5, 201213 yr It's a daily torture for the carb addict, for the self abuser, I hate to burst your bubble but it's not true what your Mum told you about self abuse. You won't go blind. You won't grow hairs on the palms of your hands. No kittens will die. The only reason your Mum told you all that stuff was that she got tired of doing your laundry That kind of self abuse is nothing to complain about ( whistle emoticon )
June 5, 201213 yr Author Okay gentleman, let me interject this in this argument. When I was 16 I was a Decathlete, I helped out on my friends farm and hand balled up to 15 tons of merchandise every day. At 18 I was in the Territorial Army, running 3 miles in 18 minutes with full kit. At 18 I developed a condition on my back which required surgery. I was laid up for 3 months and gained 20 kg. That was the start of the battle of my life, and I know what the problem is/are. I turn to food when stressed, not cigs, not alcohol, not drugs, food. The more abusive and bad for you the better. So that's part psychological. At my worst I went to 185kg in 2007, but here's a shocker for you. Massive as I was I could outrun and out-train most of the guys in this forum. Last year I was training 5 to 6 hours a day with my Muay Thai trainer. At that point I weighed about 150kg, would you have thought that possible? A guy that size training intensely for 5 plus hours a day? Recently I was walking 7 to 9 miles a day, eating correctly and losing just a little bit of weight. I now weigh about 140kg, I'm over 6 foot tall. Tomorrow I will jump on my bike and cycle about 12 miles. What I am saying is that I'm cardiovascularly fitter than the majority of guys my age, I'm stronger, I have more endurance, and more knowledge than most on how to lose weight. So what's the problem? Why am I not 90kg? It's to do with going through cycles of abuse then traininh, it's to do with the psychological/physiological. It's the battle of my life. If you met me though you would be astounded, yes, big guy, big gut, but agile, always dancing and messing around. 140kg of fat guy that has skinny guys walking out of the gym in amazement. Here is the root problem with fat loss though....you cannot abstain from food, food is your weapon of abuse, any alcoholics, smokers, gambling addicts or drug addicts reading this, your lucky, you can abstain. Did you know you were lucky? YOU CAN'T ABSTAIN FROM FOOD. It's a daily torture for the carb addict, for the self abuser, the comfort eater, the secret eater, you can go all day perfect then hammer 3000 cals in 10 minutes. We are surrounded by our poison every day, every where we go. So Isanbirder, I've seen you address this subject before, your long on opinion and short on empathy, maybe you are one of the people blessed with a life with no addictions, or maybe you are a hypocrite, I don't know, but ssshht, there are hundreds of millions of people fighting this horrific battle every day, and we are not bad people, we are not evil people, we are struggling against a modern lifestyle epidemic. Judgement is not yours, we judge ourselves every minute of every day, and every day is a trial. You have no idea how much I would love to have the easy option of abstention, I wish I was an alcoholic, or smoker, or junkie, it would be easier to quit any of them than this. Ps I had the gastric band fitted, that was a mistake Pps I'm happy to answer any questions you have, and I am delighted to take any constructive criticism and advice. Sorry for wasting the tempo of the topic, but as they say, better out than in :-) Very interesting; thank you. I don 't remember writing on this subject before, but maybe I did. Maybe I'm a hypocrite (I did describe myself as smug in an earlier post); I think most of us are in one way or another. The most interesting part of your post is that you are fighting your addiction, and may well be healthier at 140 kgs than most of us 75 kg shrimps. Good on you! This raises a point which I've often wondered about. The medical profession classifies certain weights as overweight, and then above that as obese. Isn't this different for everybody? What is everybody's ideal weight? It is certainly not the same for everybody. A correction for Jingthing. I did not say, and I don't think anyone said, that the majority of fat people WERE controlling their weight by diet and exercise; I said that they COULD do so if they wanted to. Yes, indeed, obesity rates are rising in all developed countries... and a big part of the problem is that many of the people affected are not taking any steps to deal with it.
June 5, 201213 yr Okay gentleman, let me interject this in this argument. When I was 16 I was a Decathlete, I helped out on my friends farm and hand balled up to 15 tons of merchandise every day. At 18 I was in the Territorial Army, running 3 miles in 18 minutes with full kit. At 18 I developed a condition on my back which required surgery. I was laid up for 3 months and gained 20 kg. That was the start of the battle of my life, and I know what the problem is/are. I turn to food when stressed, not cigs, not alcohol, not drugs, food. The more abusive and bad for you the better. So that's part psychological. At my worst I went to 185kg in 2007, but here's a shocker for you. Massive as I was I could outrun and out-train most of the guys in this forum. Last year I was training 5 to 6 hours a day with my Muay Thai trainer. At that point I weighed about 150kg, would you have thought that possible? A guy that size training intensely for 5 plus hours a day? Recently I was walking 7 to 9 miles a day, eating correctly and losing just a little bit of weight. I now weigh about 140kg, I'm over 6 foot tall. Tomorrow I will jump on my bike and cycle about 12 miles. What I am saying is that I'm cardiovascularly fitter than the majority of guys my age, I'm stronger, I have more endurance, and more knowledge than most on how to lose weight. So what's the problem? Why am I not 90kg? It's to do with going through cycles of abuse then traininh, it's to do with the psychological/physiological. It's the battle of my life. If you met me though you would be astounded, yes, big guy, big gut, but agile, always dancing and messing around. 140kg of fat guy that has skinny guys walking out of the gym in amazement. Here is the root problem with fat loss though....you cannot abstain from food, food is your weapon of abuse, any alcoholics, smokers, gambling addicts or drug addicts reading this, your lucky, you can abstain. Did you know you were lucky? YOU CAN'T ABSTAIN FROM FOOD. It's a daily torture for the carb addict, for the self abuser, the comfort eater, the secret eater, you can go all day perfect then hammer 3000 cals in 10 minutes. We are surrounded by our poison every day, every where we go. So Isanbirder, I've seen you address this subject before, your long on opinion and short on empathy, maybe you are one of the people blessed with a life with no addictions, or maybe you are a hypocrite, I don't know, but ssshht, there are hundreds of millions of people fighting this horrific battle every day, and we are not bad people, we are not evil people, we are struggling against a modern lifestyle epidemic. Judgement is not yours, we judge ourselves every minute of every day, and every day is a trial. You have no idea how much I would love to have the easy option of abstention, I wish I was an alcoholic, or smoker, or junkie, it would be easier to quit any of them than this. Ps I had the gastric band fitted, that was a mistake Pps I'm happy to answer any questions you have, and I am delighted to take any constructive criticism and advice. Sorry for wasting the tempo of the topic, but as they say, better out than in :-) You always did come across 'larger than life' Blether. I do agree that people cannot abstain from all food for a long length of time: People can however limit what they eat and the types of things they eat. By giving up certain foods, that in itself is a type of abstinence. I don't know if anyone on here says that the abstinence of certain food types is easy, just that it can be done by some and that doing it leads to results. One difference here with yourself Blether is you seem to take responsibility for your weight gain and acknowledge the reasons why it happened. You stay active which enables you to carry more weight while maintaining good heart activity. I would be interested in why the gastric band was a mistake for yourself?
June 5, 201213 yr Didn't The Gastric Band get to No 1 with a cover of The Floral Dance. That was a big mistake.
June 5, 201213 yr Author Thanks, Smokie. I was aware of that. My point, however, is that one rule for all, while necessary for medical purposes, does not work for everybody. (I do come out as normal, though!)
June 5, 201213 yr Thanks, Smokie. I was aware of that. My point, however, is that one rule for all, while necessary for medical purposes, does not work for everybody. (I do come out as normal, though!) That BMI chart doesn't take into account those with large muscle mass. Its a guidelne only. Useful tool nonetheless for any of us who may be interested. I scored 25.1, but haven't weighed myself for a while....I'm likely lower now I would say.
June 5, 201213 yr I do agree that people cannot abstain from all food for a long length of time: People can however limit what they eat and the types of things they eat. By giving up certain foods, that in itself is a type of abstinence. I don't know if anyone on here says that the abstinence of certain food types is easy, just that it can be done by some and that doing it leads to results. Back in the 80's I believed that eating fatty food was the cause of fat. So I ate non-fatty foods like bread, pasta, rice, potatoes. I'd eat 500g of pasta for a meal or a monster pot of rice (with corn and canned chicken mixed in). I never got rid of my gut! I was a carb-eating machine! In the 90's my meager lunch "diet" consisted of nothing more than a Coke and a Snickers bar. When I started Atkins for the first time, I had to change my diet 180 degrees. How the hell could I give up carbs? That was all I practically ate! However, I found after going cold turkey on carbs for a while, I lost all cravings for it. Maybe that doesn't work for everyone, but it worked for me.
June 5, 201213 yr @isanbirder We are facing a global pandemic, it's gone way beyond the issues of yesteryear such as simple gluttony. We all have to take responsibility for ourselves however equally we need to look to governments for protection. Transfats were used as a staple foodstuff in creating artificial foods, they are now banned in many countries. However not before they scourged the population Artificial foods have a lot to answer for, and governments should be enforcing an Artificial Foods Act. They should be limiting the calorie content and fat content on all manufactured foods. Make no mistake that the advent of manufactured artificial foods helped bring forth this calamity. Caffeine should be banned, it's primary function is to create addiction, anybody that has tried to give up coffee will know that it's a form of torture for 3 days. Caffeine is natural in coffee so fair enough, it shouldn't be added to anything else. Look around you and see the amount of calorie bombs everywhere, it's a pernicious nightmare, and shortly it will be affecting a billion people. The problem is multi layered and complex, and it is a pandemic calamity. Equally though, it is up to the individual to try to fight, there has to be self responsibility too, and I take it on. Anyway, apologies for being abrupt earlier, my primary point earlier was to point out the pernicious addictive aspect of this problem, and it is the one thing where the easy option of abstention is not possible.
June 5, 201213 yr Yes, welcome to the obesogenic environment. And yes, it is scientific fact that our bodies are programmed to RESIST weight loss programs in the LONG TERM. The thing is this impacts some people more than others, probably related to genetics, but people without these genetic factors can never understand that. This is well beyond just an individual concern or responsibility. I know hard core libertarians can't handle that, but it's the truth.
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