Water Tank To Boost Pressure Or Just A Pump?

[Hssl]

At my house in the centre of Nakhon Sawan the mains water pressure has become increasing LOW..........................

All of the neighbours house's are the same.

The house / rooms are all at ground level.

My thoughts were to install a small 1000-2000 Litre tank with float switch on the water inlet, raised above ground level and let gravity do its job rather than install a pump.

Any thoughts...........

[LennyW]

The tank would need to be high enough to give you pressure when using the shower...ie: above the height of the shower head.

Easy and cheap to put a 1000 L tank on the ground to give you a reserve and install a pump to give you pressure, you would not need a big pump for a 1 storey house, probably cheaper than building a strong enough and high enough platform for your tank for the gravity option?.

Edited June 9, 2012 by LennyW

[Naam]

with an overhead tank you don't "boost" any pressure but you are limited with the natural pressure gravity provides. you have to find out the existing water pressure in order to decide whether a tank would be an improvement.

[kamalabob2]

Forum members better educated than me can give you the height to water pressure formula to consider.

It is my belief that every province has more than one "pump shop" where a local family does significant work with local villages in providing the water supply. This same sort of shop can design, sell (at a lower price than any "modern trade' retail store) install, and maintain a DEPENDABLE water pump, tank, and PRESSURE tank, so that you can have suitable pressure inside your home, you will NOT hear the pump running EVERY time someone turns on a water tap, you will have a lower electric bill and less wear and tear on your name brand water pump, since the PRESSURE tank which has adjustable water pressure settings, and the water pump need only be active a few times each day. It is worth looking around for such a shop, and often it is the same shop that your local village leaders hire to build and maintain "municipal" water supplies. The same shop will install the water filter systems for the larger Thai owned homes near your village. We patronize the same shop that a football team owner contracts for his own home's water supply. These sort of "pump shops" are NOT costly, they have low overhead, are not air conditioned, but often have staff who have attended technical college and know quite a bit about water supply situations.

Then again maybe a water tower of a certain height will solve your problem, but "water does not flow uphill" without a pump, so in my opinion you have a choice to pay electricity to pump ALL your water up to a raised water tank on a "tower" OR spend far less money for a pump and PRESSURE tank installed by a responsible local crew where you can speak English with the shop OWNER. Some series of some brands of water pumps have REAL 5 year warranties that the local shop will honor.

[transam]

Had similar problem. Fitted a 1000LTR tank at ground level and a small 250W pump that doesn't have a vessel attached. Works a treat on both floors.

[dazk]

two problems i see

1) water pressure from the government main may not be high enough to fill the tank if it is placed at a height

2) Bottom of tank would need to be at least 8 feet above the shower outlet head to give an acceptable pressure

solution would be to have the tank at ground level to allow the government low pressure to feed the tank then install a pressure vessel pump feed from the tank

the above setup is what we have in the house up in the village.

In our place in Jomtien , the owner installed a tank on the roof and a pump on ground floor to fill the tank, gravity then feeds the house, the pressure at the top floor shower head which is just 3 feet below the base of the tank was nill so i installed a pump at the tank on the roof now good pressure all round the house.

[Kwasaki]

Our water pressure from government supply is erratic, non-existent after 11pm.

Installed a 1500 Ltr tank in a suitable place at ground level and a Hitachi water pump, put switches outside bathrooms and in kitchen.

We switch on as an when required, works well for us.

[Pib]

Well, if you stick a tank up on a tower to let gravity do it's thing, you are going to need to hookup a pump to pump water up to it and the water pressure from the tank still won't be great unless you mount the tank really high. Save the cost of the the tower unless you also plan to rent it out to cell phone companies for them to hang their antennas on. Just put your storage tank at ground level and put the pump on its output to supply water to your home....that's the way millions of homes around Thailand are hooked up to include the approx 750 homes in my approx 750 home Bangkok moobaan. The sois' water main pressure is only 8-10psi (and that's considered great water main pressure for Thailand) but that's enough to go upwards 3-4 meters which is high enough to go to the top of any ground mounted water storage tank...then the tank output at the bottom feeds into the water pump which pumps water to the house....plenty of strong water pressure coming from the second story bathroom showers. Just scrap the tower idea....storage tank and pump at ground level will work good.

[Naam]

Bottom of tank would need to be at least 8 feet above the shower outlet head to give an acceptable pressure

distance bottom 8 feet plus another 4 feet would yield the tremendous pressure of 0.36 bar = 5.2 psi which requires fast circular jogging in the shower to get wet. even the smallest (150watts) available pump would yield a comfortable 2 bar = 29 psi which is just above the minimum an instant water heater requires to kick in.

[Gary A]

We stored water in two 1000 liter cement jars. I got tired of filling them with a hose during the dry season so I bought an 18 hundred liter stainless steel tank with a float valve. I learned something by accident. I moved one of the cement jars and was temporarily taking water from the bottom bung of the second jar. I originally was taking water over the top by suction from the first jar. I noticed that my pump started cycling much more often and determined that the gravity flow from jar 2 prevented the air injector from working. That lesson caused me to suck the water from the top of the stainless steel tank. After draining the pressure tank of the pump and sucking the water from the stainless steel tank the pump is again working properly.

We too only have village water a couple times a day for a few hours each time. My HTC pump is only 150 watts and it works fine for our single level house. If we had a second story, it would probably be too small. During the rainy season, I am able to shut off the village water and catch rain water.

[Gary A]

Bottom of tank would need to be at least 8 feet above the shower outlet head to give an acceptable pressure

distance bottom 8 feet plus another 4 feet would yield the tremendous pressure of 0.36 bar = 5.2 psi which requires fast circular jogging in the shower to get wet. even the smallest (150watts) available pump would yield a comfortable 2 bar = 29 psi which is just above the minimum an instant water heater requires to kick in.

I think my shower needs 1 bar (14 PSI) to activate the pressure switch. We also have a 500 liter tank on a tower about 3.5 meters high. It does NOT give enough pressure to activate the shower pressure switch. It only serves as emergency water for when the power is off.

[overherebc]

Bottom of tank would need to be at least 8 feet above the shower outlet head to give an acceptable pressure

distance bottom 8 feet plus another 4 feet would yield the tremendous pressure of 0.36 bar = 5.2 psi which requires fast circular jogging in the shower to get wet. even the smallest (150watts) available pump would yield a comfortable 2 bar = 29 psi which is just above the minimum an instant water heater requires to kick in.

I think my shower needs 1 bar (14 PSI) to activate the pressure switch. We also have a 500 liter tank on a tower about 3.5 meters high. It does NOT give enough pressure to activate the shower pressure switch. It only serves as emergency water for when the power is off.

Bottom of the tank would need to be at 10 (ten) meters to give you 15 PSI

[Artisi]

For every 1 psi needed at the shower head you need 2.3 ft of vertical height of water above the shower head.

As pointed out by others, for 15psi you need at least 10 metres or 35 ft.

Just stick with the tank at ground level and a pump - no problems unless you have a power failure.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Artisi

[JoePai]

Not sure how to adjust the setting on our Mitsu round pump ( I have tried the screw in the top) but cannot get the pressure even i.e. open a tap and the pressure drops until the pump kicks in then up it comes then the pump stops again. Anyway to get a constant pressure flow out of these pumps ?

[Pib]

Not sure how to adjust the setting on our Mitsu round pump ( I have tried the screw in the top) but cannot get the pressure even i.e. open a tap and the pressure drops until the pump kicks in then up it comes then the pump stops again. Anyway to get a constant pressure flow out of these pumps ?

No, that's the way they are suppose to work. Say the pump is suppose to operate from 2.8bar (40psi) to 2.1bar(30psi) (different pumps have different pressure settings). When you turn-on the tap the pump will turn-on when the pressure drops to 2.1bar...then turn-off when the pressure reaches 2.8.bar...and this cycle continues...you average pressure is 35psi. If you adjust the pressure switch without a pressure gauge and knowing what you are doing you may be setting yourself up for early pump failure/improper operation.

And assuming the pump's pressure/booster tank is not waterlogged, then with one tap open full blast your pump should run approx 5 seconds, turn off approx 5 seconds, run 5 sec, turn off 5 sec...etc..etc...etc. If it's running the great majority of the time with a tap open then the tank is probably waterlogged.

[Naam]

Bottom of tank would need to be at least 8 feet above the shower outlet head to give an acceptable pressure

distance bottom 8 feet plus another 4 feet would yield the tremendous pressure of 0.36 bar = 5.2 psi which requires fast circular jogging in the shower to get wet. even the smallest (150watts) available pump would yield a comfortable 2 bar = 29 psi which is just above the minimum an instant water heater requires to kick in.

I think my shower needs 1 bar (14 PSI) to activate the pressure switch. We also have a 500 liter tank on a tower about 3.5 meters high. It does NOT give enough pressure to activate the shower pressure switch. It only serves as emergency water for when the power is off.

pressure required is different for different heater (wattage) elements and some differences how manufacturers setup their products. various models have pressure switches which allow the kick-in to be adjusted. not advisable though!

[JoePai]

Not sure how to adjust the setting on our Mitsu round pump ( I have tried the screw in the top) but cannot get the pressure even i.e. open a tap and the pressure drops until the pump kicks in then up it comes then the pump stops again. Anyway to get a constant pressure flow out of these pumps ?

No, that's the way they are suppose to work. Say the pump is suppose to operate from 2.8bar (40psi) to 2.1bar(30psi) (different pumps have different pressure settings). When you turn-on the tap the pump will turn-on when the pressure drops to 2.1bar...then turn-off when the pressure reaches 2.8.bar...and this cycle continues...you average pressure is 35psi. If you adjust the pressure switch without a pressure gauge and knowing what you are doing you may be setting yourself up for early pump failure/improper operation.

And assuming the pump's pressure/booster tank is not waterlogged, then with one tap open full blast your pump should run approx 5 seconds, turn off approx 5 seconds, run 5 sec, turn off 5 sec...etc..etc...etc. If it's running the great majority of the time with a tap open then the tank is probably waterlogged.

Ok thanks - at least I am not doing anything wrong ! However it is still very tiresome have the pressure fluctuate when in the shower so is there a pump which will deliver a constant pressure once a tap or shower is opened ?

[Pib]

I have one of those pumps which you say the water fluctuates. While it does turn on and off at 30 and 40psi for an average of 35psi (as designed) I don't notice any pressure change while taking a shower. You can buy a constant pressure water pump but it will cost approx 25% more than the kind you have now.

[transam]

I have a 250W one of these next to the tank at ground level that has no probs supplying 2 showers upstairs.

[canman]

Not sure how to adjust the setting on our Mitsu round pump ( I have tried the screw in the top) but cannot get the pressure even i.e. open a tap and the pressure drops until the pump kicks in then up it comes then the pump stops again. Anyway to get a constant pressure flow out of these pumps ?

No, that's the way they are suppose to work. Say the pump is suppose to operate from 2.8bar (40psi) to 2.1bar(30psi) (different pumps have different pressure settings). When you turn-on the tap the pump will turn-on when the pressure drops to 2.1bar...then turn-off when the pressure reaches 2.8.bar...and this cycle continues...you average pressure is 35psi. If you adjust the pressure switch without a pressure gauge and knowing what you are doing you may be setting yourself up for early pump failure/improper operation.

And assuming the pump's pressure/booster tank is not waterlogged, then with one tap open full blast your pump should run approx 5 seconds, turn off approx 5 seconds, run 5 sec, turn off 5 sec...etc..etc...etc. If it's running the great majority of the time with a tap open then the tank is probably waterlogged.

Ok thanks - at least I am not doing anything wrong ! However it is still very tiresome have the pressure fluctuate when in the shower so is there a pump which will deliver a constant pressure once a tap or shower is opened ?

I had a similar problem and the solution was to empty the pressure tank and refill. Not sure if your system is the same but for mine to work properly it required an 'air cushion' in the tank to act as an accumulator. If your pressure tank has a plug in the bottom what you need to do is: cut the power to the pump, turn off the water supply to the pump, open the plug and let all of the water drain out. Then reinstall the plug and turn the water supply and power back on. The pump will fill the pressure tank and compress the air inside which acts as a storage system for the pressure and should stop your pump from cycling on and off to often when in use.

Hope this helps.

[Pib]

Yes, if the tank is waterlogged pressure variations will be much more noticeable. When my tank got waterlogged a year or so ago the 2.1bar to 2.8bar pressure range variation for my Mitsubishi 255 tank-type pump was very noticeable in the shower. Of course, if a tank gets waterlogged something caused it to get waterlogged. In my case it was a defective the air control valve (octagon shaped device that screws into the tank with a small pencil size hose coming out of it and feeding into the water inlet side)...the valve maintains the air cushion/spring...since air is natually absorbed into water the air control valve adds a very small amount of air into the tank on each pump on and off cycle to maintain the air cusion/spring. That air cushion/spring is critical to proper operation of the pump and for smoothing out the pressure variatons.

[StefanBBK]

All depends on how much space you have around. We got 1200ltr. tank in the ground and a pump that supplies two stories house, 4 bathrooms, two kitchen and 3 garden outlets flawlesly.

After the first 5 years however a preassure switch broke and it was impossible to get a mitsubishi spare part. Ended up with do it yourself waterpipe makeshift thingy, that still works.

The noise is absolutely minimal, and not audiable inside the house.

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect App

[JoePai]

Thank you chaps I will check my tank

[Hssl]

Tank and pump it will be............................ anyone seen/used/know how much one of these would be ?

https://www.meath-co.com/web/productList.asp?id=30

[MrRealDeal]

The pump is the most annoying thing in my house , on off on off on off day and night ...yuck ........ do it the right way

You need to drain pressure tanks and recharge them about once a year , not a big deal , unscrew, drain, and pump with a common bicycle pump to the correct pressure, even ones in the states need to be recharged occationally. But the time between when it needs it and when you do it is annnnnnnoooooyyyyyiiiiinnnngggggg

Edited June 18, 2012 by MrRealDeal

[Pib]

The pump is the most annoying thing in my house , on off on off on off day and night ...yuck ........ do it the right way

You need to drain pressure tanks and recharge them about once a year , not a big deal , unscrew, drain, and pump with a common bicycle pump to the correct pressure, even ones in the states need to be recharged occationally. But the time between when it needs it and when you do it is annnnnnnoooooyyyyyiiiiinnnngggggg

You must be talking those pumps with separate, large pressure tanks or those with little bottle size bladder accumulator tanks which come with a bicycle type air valve. For the type of water pump which has its motor/pump assembly/manifold assembly setting on top of a small pressure/booster tank, you do not do as mentioned above as there is no place to add air via a bicycle type air valve/air pump...nor need to after the waterlogged condition is fixed.

Instead, you cut power to the pump, turn off the pump's water inlet, turn-on a tap on to drain some water pressure, turn off the pump's water outlet if it has one (water inlet and outlet control valves will depend on how/who installed your pump), unscrew the tank drain plug and although you relieved most of the pressure by turning on the tap you still need to be prepared for a rush of water as the plug is fully removed. Now, let the water drain completely from the tank...will take a few minutes....this will also let air back into the tank which is what you want...especially if your tank was waterlogged. Then screw back in the drain plug, turn on the water inlet and outlet, and turn the pump back on. After about 30 seconds the pump will turn off as it has recharged the water into the tank while compressing the air on top of the water which will act like an air spring/cushion to push water out of the tank into your house during those seconds the pump cuts-off/rests.

And since air is naturally absorbed into water over time and if your pump's air charger valve is working properly to add just a little air every time the pump cycles on and off, then you shouldn't ever have to do above tank draining procedure...a procedure used on a waterlogged tank...a tank that should not get waterlogged unless you have an air leak and/or your air charger valve is not working properly. And once again, I'm talking those type of water pumps with the motor/pump assembly/manifold assembly setting on top of a small pressure/booster tank...a very common type (maybe the most common type based on what I've seen) of home water pump used in Thailand.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Pib