NASA Cancels Climate Studies In Thailand

[Moruya]

As has been reported, the issue is a purely domestic politics problem. The PTP was worried that if a cabinet resolution was passed approving the mission, someone would file a lawsuit saying they had overstepped their bounds and they cannot make an agreement involving national security and sovereignty.

The Council of State had already ruled that it was within the constitutional rights of the cabinet to approve the mission, but they could debate in a parliament and have a non-binding vote on it.

The cabinet took the easy way out and voted to have a parliamentary debate (which cannot take place until August when it reconvenes)

TH

It's incredible the number of important decision that are delayed because the current government and MPs are scared that they can be used against them to create more trouble and forment unrest.

The democrats act like spoiled children. The government is our toy and if we can't have it, we're going to break it so nobody can have it.

First they were ready to start a war with Cambodia to delay an election they knew they were going to lose. They now prefer to be caught dead than to accept that the American find the current government a more acceptable interlocutor than them.

Whereas the PTP are saying "It's our ball and we will cut it to shreds using very sharp knives and if you don't like it we'll use the knives on you too!!!"

[LomSak27]

Moruya - you seem unable to deal with the fact that this is the Democrats fiasco and should rightly be blamed on them.

[Moruya]

Moruya - you seem unable to deal with the fact that this is the Democrats fiasco and should rightly be blamed on them.

I am only programmed to deal with the truth.

Yingluck's administration sat on the SEAC4RS project for so long without doing anything it had bum prints on it.

[tzthib]

Crushdepth,

I never met doctor for years because I eat natural food not formed food as you mentioned.

And If people can communicate by telepathy, smart phones / computers will become nothing but rubbish causing the world polluted.

yet, there is a limit : telepathy will be efficiently used only among people whose mind is tranquil and empowered. How can we use it while most people's mind is always distracted by daily incidents, life, jobs, family, entertainment, etc.?

Although many men able to speak mind to mind, it's not easy to transmit their ideas to you directly since your mind can't easily receive it, in additon, it consumes much power that is different from communicating among their kind.

That's why computer is still necessary. Maybe,It's not my fault to use computer but it's yours. Your lack of ability.

Science benefits the world in many ways but it's not everything we have, it's not the peak of mankind and sometimes it blinds you from real power within. Don't be too absorbed in it, open your mind you'll see clean energy.

By the way, the US claimed that it's all about science and technology aid nothing more. But the truth lies beneath the surface, you know and I know. That's why I against this plan. For thailand, US is a friend while China is next of kin. We won't be used as a base to harm our neighbors anymore.

Next of kin?!?! How so? Harm your neighbors?!?! You can't be serious...

If wasnt for the US and its support of Thailand during the 70's who knows where Thailand would be. Do you think the communists just gave up at the Cambodian and Laos borders? You think you all stopped communism by yourself?

Historically the Chinese see Thailand not as an equal, but a nation that owes them tribute. Crack open a book and learn your own history. If you want to cower in the shadow of your "next of kin" while they dictate terms to you, then by all means. But be honest with the rest of the world and tell us your true intentions. Do not continue to tout trade and security ties with the Western world when you have already decided who your real friends are.

The truth is the US is still Thailand largest trading partner by far. Thailand though, is barely a blip on the US radar. 20% of Thailand's total economy is involved with trade with the US in some way. I think people need to remember who truly needs who more.

Edited June 29, 2012 by tzthib

[rubl]

Concerning the blame game mentioned by some, may I remind you lot about this article from theNation 2012-06-22:

"Nasa signed a joint statement with the Science Ministry's Geo-Informatics and Space Technology Development Agency (GISTDA) since September 2010 to show their intention to conduct research in U-tapao. Communication between Bangkok and Washington began last June, when the United States proposed to hold a meeting between concerned agencies to consider details of the research. Later, Thailand asked the US to seek the opinion of governments from neighbouring countries about whether they had any concerns or reservations about the project, Surapong said."

http://www.nationmul...e-30184697.html

[chotthee]

Good, so no Green Card for Thaksin.

[Moruya]

Good, so no Green Card for Thaksin.

He already got the yellow card

He may well live long enough to get the red one.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts have been removed. This topic is about NASA cancels climate studies in Thailand, not a rehash of World War 2.

[tzthib]

Off topic posts have been removed. This topic is about NASA cancels climate studies in Thailand, not a rehash of World War 2.

Seems to me like you missed a couple.

edit: nevermind. My mistake.

Edited June 29, 2012 by tzthib

[TPI]

Thanks to the bravery of the Democrat Party and the resourcefulness of the People's Alliance for Democracy, the Thai people (and all us wise and loyal farang) now know the truth behind "NASA's" request for a so-called climate study center at U-Tapao: it's a facility to control the weather and cause natural disasters, granted to the US so that they can give Thaksin a US visa. It would be equivalent to surrendering Thai sovereignty to the US, and allowing them to use Thai soil to wage war against their enemies.

Source: http://prachatai.com/english/node/3275

The editors at Prachatai are red-shirt cowards who refused to show the full evidence that the PAD revealed: that prototype weather control facilities have already been used to cause untold harm to China and other allies of Thailand.

Source: http://www.manager.c...D=9550000075998

When the Democrat Party allowed the US to use U-Tapao for Operation Enduring Freedom, at least that was visible to the public. But who knows what nasty secret plans the US has for this scary new super-weapon?

Please, no more! I nearly choked on my Pad Thai!!! (Did they really say that?)

[ttelise]

Brain dead Thai officials once again stopping progress and opportunity in their country. Are they wary of America spying on China from their country?? If America really wants to spy using the Dragon Lady (U-2) they could just use satellite or have the USAF launch from Okinawa. I believe NASA has also the SR-71 and that would be a treat to introduce into Thailand but Thai officials would probably say they have a faster aircraft and have no need for Habu (SR-71).

All SR-71 aircraft have been permanently retired. With the original tooling destroyed the first time they were retired, no spare parts are available. No flying capable aircraft are available at any price. It's been that way since October 1998.

I heard the other day that one was still operational from a reliable source. Blue angel. Live where they are based and law partner is former and knows current

Edited June 29, 2012 by ttelise

[HumanitiesEnemy]

It seems as if most Thai's seem to be Anti-American to a certain extent at this point. This incognito affair with China will soon be exposed and Thailand's biggest donor the USA will just need to leave them alone at some point and let them fend for themselves. I really feel bad for many Thai's who never had the opportunity to be educated by the government here on sustainable development and environmental awareness. IF the politicians really want to copy some ideas from China, why not take the one on sterilizing men after the first born child BUT again this regulation should be set world wide. Asians seem to love photography in my experience, its strange they don't utilize more sattelite based photography to get a closer look at themselves? Apologies for going off on tangents I'm a free association Gonzo style thinker, what about more VIDEO camera's all over Thailand as a good start. The police would really love a V.cam on at all times on those pretty pick-ups...

[teatree]

I am Thai and I am grateful for everyone who against this plan.

Turn off your computer, get the electricity disconnected and stop eating farmed food while you are at it. The next time you are sick, don't go to the doctor. Science is an evil thing.

Wake up and look around man. Jeez...

Maybe that poster is from North Carolina: http://www.care2.com...se-illegal.html

Unbelievable. I am avoiding North Carolina at all costs. ...and I thought all the stories I've heard about NC were 'over the top'. Completely speechless, I am.

Can anyone name ONE SINGLE climate model that has later proven to be true?

The silence is deafening....

I think if you decode the article about NC you will see that they are trying to make it so that predictions are based only on existing empirical data rather than man made global warnming fear mongerers' wet dreams. CICO...Crap In Crap Out.

It may be a little extreme banning models altogether but given all the nonsense with Climategate, the highly political nature of the core of the movement, and the many, many other instances of bad science infesting the AGW movement, they do have a point.

[ttelise]

It seems as if most Thai's seem to be Anti-American to a certain extent at this point. This incognito affair with China will soon be exposed and Thailand's biggest donor the USA will just need to leave them alone at some point and let them fend for themselves. I really feel bad for many Thai's who never had the opportunity to be educated by the government here on sustainable development and environmental awareness. IF the politicians really want to copy some ideas from China, why not take the one on sterilizing men after the first born child BUT again this regulation should be set world wide. Asians seem to love photography in my experience, its strange they don't utilize more sattelite based photography to get a closer look at themselves? Apologies for going off on tangents I'm a free association Gonzo style thinker, what about more VIDEO camera's all over Thailand as a good start. The police would really love a V.cam on at all times on those pretty pick-ups...

Yep, if US really wanted or needed anything in Thailand, Thailand would have little say. US can hit them where it hurts through numerous economic/trade channels.

China is so heavily dependent upon US from an economic perspective that US could devestate China's entire economy in a matter of months. China has a huge flaw in its monetary system shored up by purchasing foreign exchange reserves. China has purchased several trillion in US Bond and Tresuries to limit appreciation of its own currency against dollar and world currencies.

So, we got their money and they got a whole bunch of our short term paper. While default is not good for our economy, default would devestate their economy as we got their money and they got our worthless paper they cannot spend in the event of deault.

Thailand's economic dependence upon both US and Asia leaves them particularly vulnerable.

Sad fact is this, US can make Thailand dance and sing if they really need to or want to. Just right now, US has no real need or want.

Edited June 29, 2012 by ttelise

[thaimat]

Thanks to the bravery of the Democrat Party and the resourcefulness of the People's Alliance for Democracy, the Thai people (and all us wise and loyal farang) now know the truth behind "NASA's" request for a so-called climate study center at U-Tapao: it's a facility to control the weather and cause natural disasters, granted to the US so that they can give Thaksin a US visa. It would be equivalent to surrendering Thai sovereignty to the US, and allowing them to use Thai soil to wage war against their enemies.

Source: http://prachatai.com/english/node/3275

The editors at Prachatai are red-shirt cowards who refused to show the full evidence that the PAD revealed: that prototype weather control facilities have already been used to cause untold harm to China and other allies of Thailand.

Source: http://www.manager.c...D=9550000075998

When the Democrat Party allowed the US to use U-Tapao for Operation Enduring Freedom, at least that was visible to the public. But who knows what nasty secret plans the US has for this scary new super-weapon?

Please, no more! I nearly choked on my Pad Thai!!! (Did they really say that?)

Thanks to the bravery of the Democrat Party and the resourcefulness of the People's Alliance for Democracy, the Thai people (and all us wise and loyal farang) now know the truth behind "NASA's" request for a so-called climate study center at U-Tapao: it's a facility to control the weather and cause natural disasters, granted to the US so that they can give Thaksin a US visa. It would be equivalent to surrendering Thai sovereignty to the US, and allowing them to use Thai soil to wage war against their enemies.

Source: http://prachatai.com/english/node/3275

The editors at Prachatai are red-shirt cowards who refused to show the full evidence that the PAD revealed: that prototype weather control facilities have already been used to cause untold harm to China and other allies of Thailand.

Source: http://www.manager.c...D=9550000075998

When the Democrat Party allowed the US to use U-Tapao for Operation Enduring Freedom, at least that was visible to the public. But who knows what nasty secret plans the US has for this scary new super-weapon?

Please, no more! I nearly choked on my Pad Thai!!! (Did they really say that?)

And we will call this new super weapon a "laser"

Edited June 30, 2012 by thaimat

[meand]

There is a problem of distrust here of course, that is understandable. But, there is obviously a bigger problem here, the one about Thais not understanding anything having to do with science.

[cheshiremusicman]

This is what the US has to deal with thanks to its record of aggression and asserting itself on smaller countries. This mission was most likely in good faith and would have been beneficial to the causes of science and environmentalism, but the world is simply wary and distrustful of the US, Thailand included. I'm American, but the truth is obvious even to me.

I agree but I am not sure that the intent of the mission was to benefit science. The photo on the front page of the BKK Post showed the supposed weather plane. They used to be called U2s during the Cold War and their purpose was far from being weather data collection

What else would you use for sampling at very high altitudes, if you already have the technology of a U2 plane on board and tested over many years of flying? I agree, it could be used for all kinds of 'Research', but just for once let's give the USA the benefit of the doubt. I personally think this is a very sad loss for everyone and hope that NASA will get another base in the region to conduct the studies. Very sad that the xenophobic Thai Government reacted the way that they did, another nail in the coffin for Thailand.

[bangkokgabe]

Xkmasada.......please send your ridiculous conspiracy theories to the tabloids.....spouting that kind of nonsense here runs the risk of the intellectually susceptible actually believing you. Go play w your star trek figures

[thaimat]

Posted by Teatree:

Can anyone name ONE SINGLE climate model that has later proven to be true?

The silence is deafening....

I think if you decode the article about NC you will see that they are trying to make it so that predictions are based only on existing empirical data rather than man made global warnming fear mongerers' wet dreams. CICO...Crap In Crap Out.

It may be a little extreme banning models altogether but given all the nonsense with Climategate, the highly political nature of the core of the movement, and the many, many other instances of bad science infesting the AGW movement, they do have a point.

Climate models have, indeed, been worthless SO FAR, which is not to say that the seas are not rising, (scientific fact that they are), or that there is not global warming, (1100+ heat records broken in America this year already, more than any time in history). But to legislate that it is illegal to use anything other than past historical data is to stick your head in your ass and say "everything's cool in here, no global warming whatsoever". So instead of Thailand helping themselves, and the planet by allowing the US (For you US bashers-is anyone doing more weather research, or any other science research, than America?) to accumulate more weather data, they basically get too busy (with the self inner rectal exam looking for whatever-spare change, profit, ways to make "the other guy" look bad) to approve a 2 month weather data collection program. Anyone with half a working brain should be able to deduce that there is a connection between CO2 emissions and the planet's surface temperatures, which is empirical data that is available. When 255 members of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences, who never agree on anything, together with 11 Nobel prize winning scientists, and all publish a statement last month confirming their belief that Global Warming is a fact, and explaining why, then intelligent, open minded people might learn something, if they just pay attention. You're certainly not going to get that kind of credibility, or hard, unbiased data out of the Oil Industry's vast and always busy PR machine, nor scientists in this country.

[nputman]

The U2 first flew in August of 1955 thanks to the Aviation genius of Kelly Johnson and Lockheed's Skunk works.

Does anyone fully believe that The Skunk works or Boeing's Black box have not made revolutionary leaps in the 55 years since this venerable and historic aircraft's maiden flight.

To much disinformation and paranoia feeding the frenzy I would say.

Maybe before Cobra Gold this time the US should hold off until Thailand can show that the Chinese are not spying on the exercise.

That would go over like a turd in a punchbowl if you pardon my saying.

And for the Nationalist that has posted several comments, Study your history in particular the first few months following WWII.

You may find that if not for American and it's people you would have reverted to Colony status of a certain country.

Time for the off button and I feel many more need to do the same and go outside and enjoy reality.

[Nisa]

Here is the link to the NASA page regarding this project with calendar of events and all. http://espo.nasa.gov/missions/seac4rs/

Given the description of the mission, I personally can see no need to use this specific location. The planes involved would have been a DC8, U2 and a HIAPER but would think there would be other locations in Asia they could also use these long range aircraft to conduct non-secret / non-military mission to study the Asian Monsoon season as opposed to a military base ... maybe BKK by simply renting a hanger and filing flight plans.

Edited June 30, 2012 by Nisa

[kerryk]

Here is the link to the NASA page regarding this project with calendar of events and all. http://espo.nasa.gov/missions/seac4rs/

Given the description of the mission, I personally can see no need to use this specific location. The planes involved would have been a DC8, U2 and a HIAPER but would think there would be other locations in Asia they could also use these long range aircraft to conduct non-secret / non-military mission to study the Asian Monsoon season as opposed to a military base ... maybe BKK by simply renting a hanger and filing flight plans.

I am sure the scientific community at NASA will appreciate your input and hold it on the proper level with the 1000 PHD's that decided on U-Tapao.

[teatree]

Posted by Teatree:

Can anyone name ONE SINGLE climate model that has later proven to be true?

The silence is deafening....

I think if you decode the article about NC you will see that they are trying to make it so that predictions are based only on existing empirical data rather than man made global warnming fear mongerers' wet dreams. CICO...Crap In Crap Out.

It may be a little extreme banning models altogether but given all the nonsense with Climategate, the highly political nature of the core of the movement, and the many, many other instances of bad science infesting the AGW movement, they do have a point.

Climate models have, indeed, been worthless SO FAR, which is not to say that the seas are not rising, (scientific fact that they are), or that there is not global warming, (1100+ heat records broken in America this year already, more than any time in history). But to legislate that it is illegal to use anything other than past historical data is to stick your head in your ass and say "everything's cool in here, no global warming whatsoever". So instead of Thailand helping themselves, and the planet by allowing the US (For you US bashers-is anyone doing more weather research, or any other science research, than America?) to accumulate more weather data, they basically get too busy (with the self inner rectal exam looking for whatever-spare change, profit, ways to make "the other guy" look bad) to approve a 2 month weather data collection program. Anyone with half a working brain should be able to deduce that there is a connection between CO2 emissions and the planet's surface temperatures, which is empirical data that is available. When 255 members of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences, who never agree on anything, together with 11 Nobel prize winning scientists, and all publish a statement last month confirming their belief that Global Warming is a fact, and explaining why, then intelligent, open minded people might learn something, if they just pay attention. You're certainly not going to get that kind of credibility, or hard, unbiased data out of the Oil Industry's vast and always busy PR machine, nor scientists in this country.

Yes, there is a direct connection between CO2 and temperatures.

Temperatures go up first, then there is a lag of several hundred years, then CO2 goes up.

This is clearly shown in the ice core data and even the most devout warmist scientists accept this. The graph showing this data is actually in Gore's sci-fi classic "An Inconveinient Truth"....except he sneakily insinuates that it is CO2 that is the driver, not temperatures.

Edited June 30, 2012 by teatree

[animatic]

As though Nasa studying the climate over South East Asia has any direct benefit to the USA. If Thailand isn't worried about understanding the South East Asian monsoon better, stuff them.

It isn't as though, Thailand, never ever suffers things like serious floods or drought.

Well what I understand is that this is a central hot area

with rising vapor from the bay of Siam and oceans east and west,

This may affect the monsoon in that both El Nino and El Nina affect the monsoon;

timing, directions, length, and pollutants are shown to affect El Nino / Nina.

And this region is believed to be sending 'aerosols' upwards and diffusing them

world wide from high altitude. If, as also postulated, particulate pollutants are flowing

upward with those aerosols, then it is easy to track the patterns knowing

what those particulate ratios are and where they go in what densities.

And knowing what they are from the local source means that satellites can scan for their particular wave lengths and see where they show up in large clusters. etc.

So yes, if this is the origin of an upward funnel system of micro matter,

and it goes to the upper atmosphere, it most certainly will be

affecting ALL nations in some manner.

Edited June 30, 2012 by animatic

[ttelise]

I am not a global warming junkie and always felt it was just climate cycles that occur throughout history.

But holy crap, it was 107 here yesterday. The highest temp ever here and it's only June.

My baby's Godmother is a multiple Grammy award winning musician and her husband is a Grammy award winning writer. They went on an expedition to Anartixa with Al Gore, Tommy Lee Jones, Dan Rather, Bill Gates and others a couple months ago. They said what they saw convinced them we got big problems

[Nisa]

Here is the link to the NASA page regarding this project with calendar of events and all. http://espo.nasa.gov/missions/seac4rs/

Given the description of the mission, I personally can see no need to use this specific location. The planes involved would have been a DC8, U2 and a HIAPER but would think there would be other locations in Asia they could also use these long range aircraft to conduct non-secret / non-military mission to study the Asian Monsoon season as opposed to a military base ... maybe BKK by simply renting a hanger and filing flight plans.

I am sure the scientific community at NASA will appreciate your input and hold it on the proper level with the 1000 PHD's that decided on U-Tapao.

Actually Surat Thani was what the Nasa experts wanted and it can be seen why in the below image of the mission area but for unknown reasons they changed it to an airport with US military activity.

Edited June 30, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

Below is an excerpt from a 2005 WikiLeaks cable:

1. The Royal Thai Naval Air Station at Utapao represents the most strategically significant location in Thailand, and one of considerable importance regionally. In the past several years Utapao has been used to support OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM, OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM and various smaller contingencies. Most recently, while serving as the regional hub for the U.S. led OPERATION UNIFIED ASSISTANCE (OUA), the value of our nearly unfettered access to the facility was once again clearly demonstrated.

2. In addition to supporting contingency operations,

approximately 30 U.S. military aircraft routinely transit Utapao monthly, and the base is central in supporting an average of 40 joint and combined exercises conducted between United States and Royal Thai Armed Forces (RTARF) annually

. There are also commercial pressures on Utapao that will likely grow in the future, including booming business in the nearby Eastern-Seaboard industrial zone, international charter flights, the base’s use as a commercial aircraft diversion airfield, and civilian competition for control of airfield operations.

3. Although successive Thai governments have been responsive to U.S. requests to use Utapao, we cannot take for granted the access we have enjoyed to date. Despite the high tempo of U.S. activity in Utapao, we have offered very little in the way of lasting facility improvements or maintenance that would provide mutual benefits and be supportive

of our strategic objectives regarding expanded access and influence

.

http://asiancorrespo...ory-of-u-tapao/

Edited June 30, 2012 by Nisa

[blazes]

Thailand ..... The Hub of Childish Stupidity......... except in Thailand's case it is perpetuated by the adult politician not the children.

I wonder if Guiness has a category for political stupidity ....

Sad day for Thailand and such a loss of face as seen by the rest of the world.

Loss of face in rest of the world? Absolute nonsense. Utter tosh.

As the American said earlier (contribution #8), no one with two brains to rub together EVER believes that US research is not, in some way, however distant, connected to the Pentagon.

In my university once, a scientist came up with a perfect remedy for Montezuma's Revenge....but he was roundly criticised for accepting research funds from the Pentagon, since the remedy would be used to make it easier for US troops to do their job better when invading the latest banana republic in Central America.

[ttelise]

Thailand ..... The Hub of Childish Stupidity......... except in Thailand's case it is perpetuated by the adult politician not the children.

I wonder if Guiness has a category for political stupidity ....

Sad day for Thailand and such a loss of face as seen by the rest of the world.

Loss of face in rest of the world? Absolute nonsense. Utter tosh.

As the American said earlier (contribution #8), no one with two brains to rub together EVER believes that US research is not, in some way, however distant, connected to the Pentagon.

In my university once, a scientist came up with a perfect remedy for Montezuma's Revenge....but he was roundly criticised for accepting research funds from the Pentagon, since the remedy would be used to make it easier for US troops to do their job better when invading the latest banana republic in Central America.

Yeah, we have Americans holed up in reinforced houses, with walk in gun safes, dogs trained to kill, months supllies of MREs, and diesel fuel tanks in their back yard waiting for the world to end. Perhaps American poster # 8 falls into that category.

I get annoyed by many things our government does, especially the Busch Jr. regime. Our freedoms and privacy rights have severely been eroded by his playing on paranoid people's fear, such as poster # 8, with his axis of evil speeches. Unfortunately, lots of weak minded individuals bought it hook line and sinker.

Seriously, we don't need weather planes or NASA. We have satellites that can focus on the pimple located on your girlfriend's right butt cheek in the sky already. Get a grip if you really think we need to surreptitiously send NASA into anywhere in Thailand to do the Pentagon's dirty work.

Edited June 30, 2012 by ttelise

[meand]

For one, I don't think the average person spending too much time in a Thai forum is going to be too privy to the intricacies and most effective ways to proceed with a NASA study. This applies to me as well.

If I had to guess, from the little I read, this study was on the up-and-up. If you ever do anything, and want to do it well, you are going to need to be in the field and study the phenomena up close as personal as you an get. You can't just do everything from space, I mean cmon man.

Anyway, opinion differ, that's fine. US has made their own bed in many ways, that is no doubt true. But for some probably very unqualified people to just say "they can do all this from space" is rather absurd in my opinion.