(What Seems Like A) Sexpat Has A Go At Some Holidaymakers

[DrTuner]

When i fix my car I am doing something mechanical for a given period of time. It does not mean I am a mechanic.

I think the Labor office would classify that as work and hence you as a mechanic. Illegal without work permit.

[BookMan]

One way to look at the possible psychology of a bar girl is this..

She goes to work in the "scene" thinking to not do it for long, make good money, and send money back.

She gets there and the scene starts to eat at her.

One way to make herself feel better, is emotional spending

Hair, nails, make up, nice phone..etc.

..and these things obviously will make her look better, and thus can be justified in her mind as it gets her more attention/more customers.

but its a temporary fix..so more frivolous spending required.

Then she might even better if she has a few drinks..has a try of some drugs. She might be thinking, well, the other girls do it, and it makes them feel good and makes the job easier..so hell, why not?

Its easy to see how an initial plan could end up spiraling wayy out of the goal set.

Maybe im being naive, but i think this could be the case for girls in the bar scene.

How could anyone NOT become a bit hardened and bitter and thus compensate themselves by frivolous spending?

Would take a VERY strong resolve in a woman to not fall into this trap..i think.

I think you could cover quite a number of the girls in the scene with these thoughts of yours. Importantly, it comes from the female mindset, not the male.

An additional point you don't cover here is Education. I think the lack of education for a lot in the bar scene would be a contributing psychological factor to their behaviour.

[BookMan]

When i fix my car I am doing something mechanical for a given period of time. It does not mean I am a mechanic.

I think the Labor office would classify that as work and hence you as a mechanic. Illegal without work permit.

[chiang mai]

I dont think you have to be 'connected' to Ronald McDonald to work for him. 300 Baht a day is the minimum wage so that equates to 9000 Baht a month. I disagree that this isn't enough to "live on". If you take away the phones/boyfriends motorbikes etc you can eat and stay somewhere for this price. Is it a happy life? my answer would be no of course not.

Template for finding work and earning a decent salary? - STOP accepting a 500 baht bribe to vote in a government that will shaft you.

Let's not forget in all of this that the imperative in the eyes of the young lady are to help her family financially, that means helping to pay a series of banks loans, government loans and probably loan shark debts, not to mention upcomming school fee costs, supplies for the rice planting season, and so on and so on, in total she could easily be aware of 500,000 bahts worth of family debts. So yes, Ronald's house beckons but you can easily see her dilemma when she realises that she can only contribute say 1,000 or 2,000 baht a month, after she has paid her own living costs.

Also, couldn't agree more re. the 500 baht, but that problem along with its many relatives are well entrenched and will take much time to dislodge, in the meantime the Issan girls need to feed their familes.

Tell the parents not to borrow 500,000 baht.

Stay away from loan sharks.

Govt schools are free.

Stop this tradition of sending money to parents. It only makes them lazy and want more materialistic things.

oh and most of them send money up country because the oldies look after their kids that they had when they were 12, so add use contraception to the list.

Yes OK, we'll arange for all those things to be done and we'll change the culture and the way of living for 70 million Thai people overnight, silly me, why didn't I think of that, big sigh!

[maxme]

Sometimes I wonder if some of the posters have ever been to Thailand, or ever spoken to a real Thai!

Next, some of you will be claiming to have Thai friends.

Tommo, whatever part of Thailand you claim to know... is only one part...

[PoodMaiDai]

So these cheeky faced kids spent a week or two living in Issan for some reality show and they suddenly know everything about Thailand and the sex industry?

They haven't even peeled off the first layer that is the complicated and totally illogical onion called Thailand.

[whistleblower]

I dont think you have to be 'connected' to Ronald McDonald to work for him. 300 Baht a day is the minimum wage so that equates to 9000 Baht a month. I disagree that this isn't enough to "live on". If you take away the phones/boyfriends motorbikes etc you can eat and stay somewhere for this price. Is it a happy life? my answer would be no of course not.

Template for finding work and earning a decent salary? - STOP accepting a 500 baht bribe to vote in a government that will shaft you.

Let's not forget in all of this that the imperative in the eyes of the young lady are to help her family financially, that means helping to pay a series of banks loans, government loans and probably loan shark debts, not to mention upcomming school fee costs, supplies for the rice planting season, and so on and so on, in total she could easily be aware of 500,000 bahts worth of family debts. So yes, Ronald's house beckons but you can easily see her dilemma when she realises that she can only contribute say 1,000 or 2,000 baht a month, after she has paid her own living costs.

Also, couldn't agree more re. the 500 baht, but that problem along with its many relatives are well entrenched and will take much time to dislodge, in the meantime the Issan girls need to feed their familes.

Tell the parents not to borrow 500,000 baht.

Stay away from loan sharks.

Govt schools are free.

Stop this tradition of sending money to parents. It only makes them lazy and want more materialistic things.

oh and most of them send money up country because the oldies look after their kids that they had when they were 12, so add use contraception to the list.

Yes OK, we'll arange for all those things to be done and we'll change the culture and the way of living for 70 million Thai people overnight, silly me, why didn't I think of that, big sigh!

Why should we change it? i am merely observing what happens here. But if you can arrange it then please do. You obviously spend more time with them than I do to understand them so well, so you would be perfect for the job.

[arthurwait]

I dont think you have to be 'connected' to Ronald McDonald to work for him. 300 Baht a day is the minimum wage so that equates to 9000 Baht a month. I disagree that this isn't enough to "live on". If you take away the phones/boyfriends motorbikes etc you can eat and stay somewhere for this price. Is it a happy life? my answer would be no of course not.

Template for finding work and earning a decent salary? - STOP accepting a 500 baht bribe to vote in a government that will shaft you.

Let's not forget in all of this that the imperative in the eyes of the young lady are to help her family financially, that means helping to pay a series of banks loans, government loans and probably loan shark debts, not to mention upcomming school fee costs, supplies for the rice planting season, and so on and so on, in total she could easily be aware of 500,000 bahts worth of family debts. So yes, Ronald's house beckons but you can easily see her dilemma when she realises that she can only contribute say 1,000 or 2,000 baht a month, after she has paid her own living costs.

Also, couldn't agree more re. the 500 baht, but that problem along with its many relatives are well entrenched and will take much time to dislodge, in the meantime the Issan girls need to feed their familes.

Banks loan to people in poverty ?

Banks loan 500,000 ?

School fees ?

[Tywais]

A whole bunch of off topic, argumentative spelling/grammar police posts have been removed.

[arthurwait]

I dont think you have to be 'connected' to Ronald McDonald to work for him. 300 Baht a day is the minimum wage so that equates to 9000 Baht a month. I disagree that this isn't enough to "live on". If you take away the phones/boyfriends motorbikes etc you can eat and stay somewhere for this price. Is it a happy life? my answer would be no of course not.

Template for finding work and earning a decent salary? - STOP accepting a 500 baht bribe to vote in a government that will shaft you.

Let's not forget in all of this that the imperative in the eyes of the young lady are to help her family financially, that means helping to pay a series of banks loans, government loans and probably loan shark debts, not to mention upcomming school fee costs, supplies for the rice planting season, and so on and so on, in total she could easily be aware of 500,000 bahts worth of family debts. So yes, Ronald's house beckons but you can easily see her dilemma when she realises that she can only contribute say 1,000 or 2,000 baht a month, after she has paid her own living costs.

Also, couldn't agree more re. the 500 baht, but that problem along with its many relatives are well entrenched and will take much time to dislodge, in the meantime the Issan girls need to feed their familes.

Tell the parents not to borrow 500,000 baht.

Stay away from loan sharks.

Govt schools are free.

Stop this tradition of sending money to parents. It only makes them lazy and want more materialistic things.

oh and most of them send money up country because the oldies look after their kids that they had when they were 12, so add use contraception to the list.

Yes OK, we'll arange for all those things to be done and we'll change the culture and the way of living for 70 million Thai people overnight, silly me, why didn't I think of that, big sigh!

I don't think you'll find 70 million Thai people doing those things.

[chiang mai]

I dont think you have to be 'connected' to Ronald McDonald to work for him. 300 Baht a day is the minimum wage so that equates to 9000 Baht a month. I disagree that this isn't enough to "live on". If you take away the phones/boyfriends motorbikes etc you can eat and stay somewhere for this price. Is it a happy life? my answer would be no of course not.

Template for finding work and earning a decent salary? - STOP accepting a 500 baht bribe to vote in a government that will shaft you.

Let's not forget in all of this that the imperative in the eyes of the young lady are to help her family financially, that means helping to pay a series of banks loans, government loans and probably loan shark debts, not to mention upcomming school fee costs, supplies for the rice planting season, and so on and so on, in total she could easily be aware of 500,000 bahts worth of family debts. So yes, Ronald's house beckons but you can easily see her dilemma when she realises that she can only contribute say 1,000 or 2,000 baht a month, after she has paid her own living costs.

Also, couldn't agree more re. the 500 baht, but that problem along with its many relatives are well entrenched and will take much time to dislodge, in the meantime the Issan girls need to feed their familes.

Banks loan to people in poverty ?

Banks loan 500,000 ?

School fees ?

You seem surprised, let's take each one in turn:

In rural areas there exists a whole host of small banks and lending faciltities, some governement led and some private, all are designed to lend money to local communities. Typically the loans from these organisations are fairly small, in the case of my wife's family village they will lend up to THB 150K per family although it's not unusual for a single family to borrow from several of them at a time. When I first met my wife I tried to get the family's finances under control and a part of that involved sorting out and regnegotiating a series of such loans, my wife's family was near destitute at the time and was leveraged to in excess of 500K but their assets were worth no more than 50k!!! Thankfully today those things are all in the past and they no longer need to borrow.

School fees: again, my wife's family in Tung Siliam near Sukhothai. Two kids in the family are aged fifteen and ten and both have had to change (government) schools as they aged, the question is which school would they go to, the very good school with a national reputation for excellence is under two miles away, the alternative school is in Sukhothai and that involves a one way commute of around 45 mins. The decision as to whether or not they would be allowed to go to the better school would be determined by how much key money the family paid to the teachers at the school, all of whom are local residents. It turned out that "school fees" of around THb 30,000 were sufficent to get the eldest girl into the better school.

Edited August 1, 2012 by chiang mai

[farang000999]

A few more suggestions:

-Create a social program that gives poor people money each month to buy food. For a family of 4 in the USA this is about 30,000 baht a month but food is slightly cheaper in Thailand than the USA.

-Provide student loans to all students and have student loan programs for adults who wish to get further education.

-Have heavily subsidized nursery care for poor people with young children

-Make massive improvements to public schooling. Start paying for the public schools by collecting property taxes on land and home owners

-Come up with a social security program that pays those who have reached the retirement aged a monthly amount.

Just some general ideas for Thai society to go along with all the "mongers give life advice to bar girls" posts.

[KeyserSoze01]

It's interesting to see that in this thread the word "prostitute" is not being defined, in my world and I think also in the real world in Thailand, there's two different groups involved. The first is the hard core professional working girl, the like of which are seen all around the world, I define that as a prostitute. The second is the rural farm girl, uneducated, poor and part of an extended family that needs support. I'm with the earlier poster who states that opportunities for Issan women in the latter group are far and few between. For me such people are not really prostitutes any more than any woman in any country who is looking for a partner and/or support might be defined as one, the trouble is that the argument requires less thought and effort if we don't dig into the subject too deeply and simply generalise instead!.

Just curious what part of accepting money for sexual gratuities is confusing about the term "prostitute"? Last time I checked, there is no qualification behind the definition. It goes without saying that any woman or man with any self-respect would not enter into this profession given another choice, so I don't see how you can differentiate between your definition of prostitution and reality. Especially since Thailand has an unemployment rate around 1%. Anyone that wants a "real" job can find one. Not a job that earns them a monthly normal salary in a couple nights on their back, but a real job.

[DrTuner]

A few more suggestions:

-Create a social program that gives poor people money each month to buy food. For a family of 4 in the USA this is about 30,000 baht a month but food is slightly cheaper in Thailand than the USA.

-Provide student loans to all students and have student loan programs for adults who wish to get further education.

-Have heavily subsidized nursery care for poor people with young children

-Make massive improvements to public schooling. Start paying for the public schools by collecting property taxes on land and home owners

-Come up with a social security program that pays those who have reached the retirement aged a monthly amount.

Just some general ideas for Thai society to go along with all the "mongers give life advice to bar girls" posts.

As far as I can see all but student loans are forms of enlarging public expenses, some might say socialism. With a very small part of Thais paying any taxes, I seriously doubt their willingness to let goverment collect money and then presumably redistribute it to unknowns.

The transfers of funds here happen between members of family, chabging that money flow will be quite a challenge with notmuch to show it.

[thaibeachlovers]

Ex-wives in divorce courts then?

No because

1) no cash payment at the point of sale

2) marriage is not about sex (marriage is more about not having sex)

I like your 2)! Oh so true ( at least of western couples ).

[thaibeachlovers]

A few more suggestions:

-Create a social program that gives poor people money each month to buy food. For a family of 4 in the USA this is about 30,000 baht a month but food is slightly cheaper in Thailand than the USA.

-Provide student loans to all students and have student loan programs for adults who wish to get further education.

-Have heavily subsidized nursery care for poor people with young children

-Make massive improvements to public schooling. Start paying for the public schools by collecting property taxes on land and home owners

-Come up with a social security program that pays those who have reached the retirement aged a monthly amount.

Just some general ideas for Thai society to go along with all the "mongers give life advice to bar girls" posts.

I presume that was "tongue in cheek".

If not, who's going to pay for it?

[farang000999]

Perhaps if there was some wealth distribution in Thailand a higher percentage of Thai people would pay taxes? This thread is hilarious. In the USA a family of 4 gets 30,000 baht a month just for free food and we have farang on here giving life advise to 3rd world prostitutes. "You can survive on 8k baht a month"... Hilarious!

[HeavyDrinker]

I couldn't be arsed reading all this but the yank is bang on.

Some wannabes trying to make a cheap film...

Lets see them tackle the African pimps in King's Cross in London where the "sex trade" is truly grim........

Edited August 1, 2012 by HeavyDrinker

[chiang mai]

A few more suggestions:

-Create a social program that gives poor people money each month to buy food. For a family of 4 in the USA this is about 30,000 baht a month but food is slightly cheaper in Thailand than the USA.

-Provide student loans to all students and have student loan programs for adults who wish to get further education.

-Have heavily subsidized nursery care for poor people with young children

-Make massive improvements to public schooling. Start paying for the public schools by collecting property taxes on land and home owners

-Come up with a social security program that pays those who have reached the retirement aged a monthly amount.

Just some general ideas for Thai society to go along with all the "mongers give life advice to bar girls" posts.

Many of the things you mention already exist:

There is already a governement grant system for university placement and this is aimed mostly at poor families in Issan, it is quite extensive and people know about it.

A social security retirement program is already in place, employers and employees contribute and employees can contribute alone if they are unemployed, the system starts paying out at 60 years of age.

Improving taxation to pay for schooling is not the isue or the answer, tea money, corruption and greed by schools and teachers is the problem.

Rural food costs: the cost of food in rural areas is not the key issue, most villagers have access to inexpensive food where costs are substantially lower than you or I can find. Poor money management, unprioritised spending and other financial demands are often responsible for not having enough to eat although this is rare I think.

[chiang mai]

It's interesting to see that in this thread the word "prostitute" is not being defined, in my world and I think also in the real world in Thailand, there's two different groups involved. The first is the hard core professional working girl, the like of which are seen all around the world, I define that as a prostitute. The second is the rural farm girl, uneducated, poor and part of an extended family that needs support. I'm with the earlier poster who states that opportunities for Issan women in the latter group are far and few between. For me such people are not really prostitutes any more than any woman in any country who is looking for a partner and/or support might be defined as one, the trouble is that the argument requires less thought and effort if we don't dig into the subject too deeply and simply generalise instead!.

Just curious what part of accepting money for sexual gratuities is confusing about the term "prostitute"? Last time I checked, there is no qualification behind the definition. It goes without saying that any woman or man with any self-respect would not enter into this profession given another choice, so I don't see how you can differentiate between your definition of prostitution and reality. Especially since Thailand has an unemployment rate around 1%. Anyone that wants a "real" job can find one. Not a job that earns them a monthly normal salary in a couple nights on their back, but a real job.

There was an excellent analogy earlier that went, "just because I occaisionally do some mechanical work on my car doesn't mean I'm a mechanic", get it now!

[chiang mai]

Stop this tradition of sending money to parents. It only makes them lazy and want more materialistic things.

It's a legal requirement. From the Civil Code:

"Section 1563. Children are bound to maintain their parents"

There is no social security to speak of in Thailand, kids are it.

There is a contributory social security system for retirement in place, for Thai's.

[whistleblower]

I dont think you have to be 'connected' to Ronald McDonald to work for him. 300 Baht a day is the minimum wage so that equates to 9000 Baht a month. I disagree that this isn't enough to "live on". If you take away the phones/boyfriends motorbikes etc you can eat and stay somewhere for this price. Is it a happy life? my answer would be no of course not.

Template for finding work and earning a decent salary? - STOP accepting a 500 baht bribe to vote in a government that will shaft you.

Let's not forget in all of this that the imperative in the eyes of the young lady are to help her family financially, that means helping to pay a series of banks loans, government loans and probably loan shark debts, not to mention upcomming school fee costs, supplies for the rice planting season, and so on and so on, in total she could easily be aware of 500,000 bahts worth of family debts. So yes, Ronald's house beckons but you can easily see her dilemma when she realises that she can only contribute say 1,000 or 2,000 baht a month, after she has paid her own living costs.

Also, couldn't agree more re. the 500 baht, but that problem along with its many relatives are well entrenched and will take much time to dislodge, in the meantime the Issan girls need to feed their familes.

Banks loan to people in poverty ?

Banks loan 500,000 ?

School fees ?

You seem surprised, let's take each one in turn:

In rural areas there exists a whole host of small banks and lending faciltities, some governement led and some private, all are designed to lend money to local communities. Typically the loans from these organisations are fairly small, in the case of my wife's family village they will lend up to THB 150K per family although it's not unusual for a single family to borrow from several of them at a time. When I first met my wife I tried to get the family's finances under control and a part of that involved sorting out and regnegotiating a series of such loans, my wife's family was near destitute at the time and was leveraged to in excess of 500K but their assets were worth no more than 50k!!! Thankfully today those things are all in the past and they no longer need to borrow.

School fees: again, my wife's family in Tung Siliam near Sukhothai. Two kids in the family are aged fifteen and ten and both have had to change (government) schools as they aged, the question is which school would they go to, the very good school with a national reputation for excellence is under two miles away, the alternative school is in Sukhothai and that involves a one way commute of around 45 mins. The decision as to whether or not they would be allowed to go to the better school would be determined by how much key money the family paid to the teachers at the school, all of whom are local residents. It turned out that "school fees" of around THb 30,000 were sufficent to get the eldest girl into the better school.

Well then you mariied into one dumb family. Assets of 50k up to their necks in 500k debt?? what did they spend it on?? let me guess tv, karaoke machines dvd?

[Ulysses G.]

It goes without saying that any woman or man with any self-respect would not enter into this profession given another choice

That is your opinion. If someone enjoys sex with just about anyone - and some people do - what is wrong with making some money while making a bunch of punters happy?

[chiang mai]

I don't spend time with such folks any more but I have done so in the past. I've lived here full time for the past nine years but I also spent the preceding twelve years living elsewhere in the region and was a frequent visitor to Thailand during this time. During the early '90's I had a couple of girlfriends from Issan who took me back to visit family to see the way of life first hand and that was hugely educational. The levels of poverty back then were appalling yet everyone seemed outwardly happy and content despite not having much at all. Some of the things in common though, between the various families/individuals I have met, not in any specific order:

Money management, budgeting and planning is almost non-existent, mostly it's all about living for the moment rather than for the future.

Everything was shared amongst the family, the food, the income, the bills and the problems.

Everyone had a stream of money making idea's that they needed money for in order to start, sometimes this involved paying an agents fee to work overseas, sometimes it was start-up capital to begin some new small manufacturing or farming venture (we want to plant rubber, oranges etc), ultimately most of these ventures would fail and the families would be left having to repay their borrowed start up costs. Those cumulative failed start up costs represent a large proportion of rural family borrowings.

Despite popular opinion to the contrary there is no shortage of enthusiasm to get involved in a money making scheme that will lift a family out of poverty, most of the people I met or knew/know would willing put in the effort and work hard to make such a scheme successful. The core problems seems to be two fold: firstly they cannot discern between a project that has a good chance of success and one that is almost certainly going to fail and secondly, the need for income during the start up phase overrides the need to be patient until the project begins to pay back, i.e. rubber trees take five years before they become productive.

So, in summary, if there was a need for government to make an investment anywhere it would be in the area of education, but that is mostly a function of time now as subsequent generations take over from largely ignorant parents. In the meantime, it's KFC, Ronalds' house or Beach Road, what a waste of a life.

Edited August 2, 2012 by chiang mai

[jackr]

I think the old dude was probably right.

Look at the way the young guys and girls were behaving outside the go-go earlier.

Hookers are hookers mainly because they are too lazy to work in a respectable job.

Easy money without much effort is the name of the game.

As for the hooker and her story ...... tears on tap, playing for the camera.

I've seen your various posts and your interpretation regarding Thais - you really don't have a clue actually.

I dunno, though he could have been a tad less demeaning, I think he was quite on the money regard a certain part of society here. What I don't get is this mod mawkishness of defending any slight on the natives.

The British bunch are very naive and easily sucked in. Probably been here 5 minutes and know it all already.

[chiang mai]

I think the old dude was probably right.

Look at the way the young guys and girls were behaving outside the go-go earlier.

Hookers are hookers mainly because they are too lazy to work in a respectable job.

Easy money without much effort is the name of the game.

As for the hooker and her story ...... tears on tap, playing for the camera.

I've seen your various posts and your interpretation regarding Thais - you really don't have a clue actually.

I dunno, though he could have been a tad less demeaning, I think he was quite on the money regard a certain part of society here. What I don't get is this mod mawkishness of defending any slight on the natives.

The British bunch are very naive and easily sucked in. Probably been here 5 minutes and know it all already.

I think if you read the history you'll find that has more to do with the poster than the mawkishness.

[TommoPhysicist]

I think if you read the history you'll find that has more to do with the poster than the mawkishness.

And according to your posts, all hookers (you think shouldn't be called hookers) have hearts of gold and do it to provide for their poor Issan families. One history of daftness Vs another, as far as I can see.

Edited August 2, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[chiang mai]

Well then you mariied into one dumb family. Assets of 50k up to their necks in 500k debt?? what did they spend it on?? let me guess tv, karaoke machines dvd?

Enough of the personal attacks, I used my wife's family as example to clarify things for another poster, no need to personalise the debate.

Edited August 2, 2012 by chiang mai

[Ulysses G.]

Many sex workers do it to provide for their poor Issan families - not all but many - and some do have hearts of gold. Denying that is "daft" indeed.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[chiang mai]

I think if you read the history you'll find that has more to do with the poster than the mawkishness.

And according to your posts, all hookers (you think shouldn't be called hookers) have hearts of gold and do it to provide for their poor Issan families. One history of daftness Vs another, as far as I can see.

It doesn't surprise me Tommo that you haven't understood the debate thus far and that you now have your current understanding.