The Future Of Luuk Kreungs?

[Johpa]

I believe Luuk Krungs could have a big effect on the future of Thailand and the preception of 'Thainess'.

I believe the proliferation of Luuk Krungs in the media and the way half western/thai kids are considered as positive is a very good thing.

It teaches Thais that the so-called Thai/Buddhist ideal is not the be-all and end-all.

Who knows, a gentle change in attitude may be enough to help the ethnic Malays eventually gain acceptance in the south of the country.

I don't think it is as big a leap of faith as many imagine.

For deacades the Thai media has pushed the perception that "goodness" and "beauty" and everything positive resided in light skinned models with a decidely East Asian look. Models and actors who had darker complexions and facial features that marked them as ethnic Thai (ask your Thai pals about adjectives for noses) were relegated to roles as servants. More recently, the luuk kreung has been put forward as the model of positive attributes and, along with weird Japanese, wealthy younger Asian folks undergo cosmetic surgery to create a more caucasian look.

Now go look at your typical Malay and tell me how the perverted media moguls in Bangkok are going to create a positive attitude change towards Malays when they have been denigrating ethnic Thais for so very long?

[Neeranam]

(ask your Thai pals about adjectives for noses) were relegated to roles as servants.

Anyone know what "dtung beung" means?

[Fast Eddie]

Here in the States, a large percentage of people are mixed, and it's common to see mixed kids who are much smarter than their parents. Or mixed kids who are much more attractive than their parents were when younger. This is independent of what happens economically, since social factors can affect that greatly.

It is also common to see kids who are not of mixed race who are smarter and more attractive than their parents. There is absolutely no reason why this would be more prevalent in children of mixed ethnic backgrounds, on a genetic level.

[Carmine6]

Here in the States, a large percentage of people are mixed, and it's common to see mixed kids who are much smarter than their parents. Or mixed kids who are much more attractive than their parents were when younger. This is independent of what happens economically, since social factors can affect that greatly.

It is also common to see kids who are not of mixed race who are smarter and more attractive than their parents. There is absolutely no reason why this would be more prevalent in children of mixed ethnic backgrounds, on a genetic level.

I'm not sure about "absolutely no reason" since there are instances of genetic problems being endemic to a relatively isolated group of people. But yeah, that's probably effectively true. I can only say that when I've noted a big discrepancy it's generally been for mixed race kids. Like my last 2 roommates. One was half Japanese, half Mexican and you wouldn't have believed her mother was her mother, even in the old pictures. Way smarter too and her kids are even sharper with some German and other stuff on the other side.

The one before that was part American Indian on both sides and then English, Scottish, and I think Swedish somewhere between the sides. Same situation with the mother being not nearly as stunning even in the old pics, or as smart. I have a lot more examples like my nieces and nephews and my business partner's kids. But I guess part of the problem is it's hard to think of people I know who are pure anything, and then they kind of match their parents.

[gurkle]

Here in the States, a large percentage of people are mixed, and it's common to see mixed kids who are much smarter than their parents. Or mixed kids who are much more attractive than their parents were when younger. This is independent of what happens economically, since social factors can affect that greatly.

It is also common to see kids who are not of mixed race who are smarter and more attractive than their parents. There is absolutely no reason why this would be more prevalent in children of mixed ethnic backgrounds, on a genetic level.

I'm not sure about "absolutely no reason" since there are instances of genetic problems being endemic to a relatively isolated group of people. But yeah, that's probably effectively true. I can only say that when I've noted a big discrepancy it's generally been for mixed race kids. Like my last 2 roommates. One was half Japanese, half Mexican and you wouldn't have believed her mother was her mother, even in the old pictures. Way smarter too and her kids are even sharper with some German and other stuff on the other side.

The one before that was part American Indian on both sides and then English, Scottish, and I think Swedish somewhere between the sides. Same situation with the mother being not nearly as stunning even in the old pics, or as smart. I have a lot more examples like my nieces and nephews and my business partner's kids. But I guess part of the problem is it's hard to think of people I know who are pure anything, and then they kind of match their parents.

I actually see the opposite. The pure Asian kids do better academically than their luuk kreung counterparts in the US.

Also, while luuk kreungs here represent a disproportionate percentage of entertainment jobs in Thailand, this percentage does NOT carry over to the intellectual jobs such as business. Actually, it doesn't even carry over to the more intellectual parts of the entertainment business such as direction and production.

And attractiveness is subjective. I think everyone can agree that there are both very pretty pure Thai and luuk kreung women. However, I think the uniqueness of luuk kreung is what makes them PERCEIVED as more attractive. BUT as their numbers increase, this perceived attractiveness will diminish. For example, Thai women prefer to be tan in the US and light-skinned in Thailand - they choose the skin color that is more unique to that particular region.

Edited January 23, 2006 by gurkle

[Fast Eddie]

I'm not sure about "absolutely no reason" since there are instances of genetic problems being endemic to a relatively isolated group of people.

I'm not aware of any endemic genetic problems in any ethnic group that cause them to have a lesser level of intellect, the same goes for attractiveness (although that is harder to measure as it is usually a very personal opinion). When i said absolutely no reason, maybe what i should have said was that there is no way that the process of genetic recombination can accentuate those characteristics, positively or negatively purely on the basis of the parents different race.

[chuchok]

I'm not sure about "absolutely no reason" since there are instances of genetic problems being endemic to a relatively isolated group of people.

I'm not aware of any endemic genetic problems in any ethnic group that cause them to have a lesser level of intellect, the same goes for attractiveness (although that is harder to measure as it is usually a very personal opinion). When i said absolutely no reason, maybe what i should have said was that there is no way that the process of genetic recombination can accentuate those characteristics, positively or negatively purely on the basis of the parents different race.

What <deleted>.It has been proven that Australians are much more cerebraly challenged than say...New Zealanders.

[samran]

I'm not sure about "absolutely no reason" since there are instances of genetic problems being endemic to a relatively isolated group of people.

I'm not aware of any endemic genetic problems in any ethnic group that cause them to have a lesser level of intellect, the same goes for attractiveness (although that is harder to measure as it is usually a very personal opinion). When i said absolutely no reason, maybe what i should have said was that there is no way that the process of genetic recombination can accentuate those characteristics, positively or negatively purely on the basis of the parents different race.

What <deleted>.It has been proven that Australians are much more cerebraly challenged than say...New Zealanders.

OK got it now...

So it is the higher level of intelligence which leads to the predisposition in our Kiwi cousins to shag the woolly ones then?

[Heng]

Also, while luuk kreungs here represent a disproportionate percentage of entertainment jobs in Thailand, this percentage does NOT carry over to the intellectual jobs such as business. Actually, it doesn't even carry over to the more intellectual parts of the entertainment business such as direction and production.

True. Kind of like African Americans in the NBA. Sure, they seem quite successful and are doing quite well, but in the end... they are working for someone else.

[chuchok]

I'm not sure about "absolutely no reason" since there are instances of genetic problems being endemic to a relatively isolated group of people.

I'm not aware of any endemic genetic problems in any ethnic group that cause them to have a lesser level of intellect, the same goes for attractiveness (although that is harder to measure as it is usually a very personal opinion). When i said absolutely no reason, maybe what i should have said was that there is no way that the process of genetic recombination can accentuate those characteristics, positively or negatively purely on the basis of the parents different race.

What <deleted>.It has been proven that Australians are much more cerebraly challenged than say...New Zealanders.

OK got it now...

So it is the higher level of intelligence which leads to the predisposition in our Kiwi cousins to shag the woolly ones then?

There's more sheep in Aussie mate.At least we don't root roos as well....

Anyway, back on track I would have to say that the Chinese as a race seem to be smarter than the average bear.In NZ it seems as though a large percentage of school Dux are Chinese.

[samran]

Anyway, back on track I would have to say that the Chinese as a race seem to be smarter than the average bear.In NZ it seems as though a large percentage of school Dux are Chinese.

Actually, it isn’t race. As a rule, it’s generally the children of the latest set of migrants who do well, supported by their parents who want to give their kids the best opportunities. Cultural attitudes to education and social betterment do have something to do with it too. Thus once upon a time it was the Irish, Jews, the Italians and Greeks, then the Vietnamese, Sri Lankan’s and now the Chinese. Soon it will be the Ethiopians, Somalians and lord knows who else.

[DisainaM]

question is,

what makes the situation in cambodia so difficult,

that most of the mixed vietnamese kids end in prostitution and crime,

cause there are no jobs for persons, who are looking too different.

Does Thailand finish this chapter, or will still be the rule, of

the last to be hire, the first to be fire

[leftcross]

I believe Luuk Krungs could have a big effect on the future of Thailand and the preception of 'Thainess'.

I believe the proliferation of Luuk Krungs in the media and the way half western/thai kids are considered as positive is a very good thing.

It teaches Thais that the so-called Thai/Buddhist ideal is not the be-all and end-all.

Who knows, a gentle change in attitude may be enough to help the ethnic Malays eventually gain acceptance in the south of the country.

I don't think it is as big a leap of faith as many imagine.

For deacades the Thai media has pushed the perception that "goodness" and "beauty" and everything positive resided in light skinned models with a decidely East Asian look. Models and actors who had darker complexions and facial features that marked them as ethnic Thai (ask your Thai pals about adjectives for noses) were relegated to roles as servants. More recently, the luuk kreung has been put forward as the model of positive attributes and, along with weird Japanese, wealthy younger Asian folks undergo cosmetic surgery to create a more caucasian look.

Now go look at your typical Malay and tell me how the perverted media moguls in Bangkok are going to create a positive attitude change towards Malays when they have been denigrating ethnic Thais for so very long?

I think you are wrong. Now, more than ever, Thailand is being bombarded with movies and music from the West. It is not the East Asian look that is favoured among Thais, it is the Caucasian look.

My point is that the nationalist Thai perspective of what is Thai (ie born in Thailand, buddhist) is changing. I'm quite sure Luuk Krungs weren't the most popular entertainers 30 years ago in the Kingdom.

People look up to Luuk Krungs as their heroes now, singing along to the songs or watching the TV shows.

All this is chipping away at the racism that is deeply embedded in Thai culture.

I wasn't suggesting ethnic Malays would be the next superstars on TV you herbert. I was saying that attitudes to non 100% Thais is changing and that is bound to have a knock on effect on those Thais who are not part of the accepted norm.

[Rhys]

Stated somewhere on this forum," I continue to lower the bar, and I'm amazed to see the "X" bang their heads on it."

[Johpa]

I believe Luuk Krungs could have a big effect on the future of Thailand and the preception of 'Thainess'.

I believe the proliferation of Luuk Krungs in the media and the way half western/thai kids are considered as positive is a very good thing.

It teaches Thais that the so-called Thai/Buddhist ideal is not the be-all and end-all.

Who knows, a gentle change in attitude may be enough to help the ethnic Malays eventually gain acceptance in the south of the country.

I don't think it is as big a leap of faith as many imagine.

For deacades the Thai media has pushed the perception that "goodness" and "beauty" and everything positive resided in light skinned models with a decidely East Asian look. Models and actors who had darker complexions and facial features that marked them as ethnic Thai (ask your Thai pals about adjectives for noses) were relegated to roles as servants. More recently, the luuk kreung has been put forward as the model of positive attributes and, along with weird Japanese, wealthy younger Asian folks undergo cosmetic surgery to create a more caucasian look.

Now go look at your typical Malay and tell me how the perverted media moguls in Bangkok are going to create a positive attitude change towards Malays when they have been denigrating ethnic Thais for so very long?

I think you are wrong. Now, more than ever, Thailand is being bombarded with movies and music from the West. It is not the East Asian look that is favoured among Thais, it is the Caucasian look.

My point is that the nationalist Thai perspective of what is Thai (ie born in Thailand, buddhist) is changing. I'm quite sure Luuk Krungs weren't the most popular entertainers 30 years ago in the Kingdom.

People look up to Luuk Krungs as their heroes now, singing along to the songs or watching the TV shows.

All this is chipping away at the racism that is deeply embedded in Thai culture.

I wasn't suggesting ethnic Malays would be the next superstars on TV you herbert. I was saying that attitudes to non 100% Thais is changing and that is bound to have a knock on effect on those Thais who are not part of the accepted norm.

Herbert? I am a Herbert? Once upon a time I might have been a Humbert, but a Herbert? But seeing that you say that I am wrong and then immediately agree with the gist of my post, then, having no shame, I shall take the appelation of Herbert as a compliment.

By the way, looking up to luuk kruengs is not going to chase away the negative attributes in the media ascribed to ethnic Thai and Lao folks but only exasperate the situation as the model of beauty moves to even lighter skin tones. The problem was never attitudes towards non 100% Thais but the attitudes towards the 100% Thais from non 100% Thai nationals.

[jing jing]

It's an interesting question. My son, 3 months old now, is half Thai and half Caucasian. I made the conscious choice to raise him here in Thailand partially because I felt he would receive positive attention from Thai people, and so far it has proven to be the case. Wherever we go people seem to make a huge fuss over him, so much so that it is almost scary. Folks have no compunction about poking, pinching, and prodding someone else's child here, do they?

What lies in store for him here... who knows? I know that in the USA he might be considered a cute kid, but otherwise nothing special, whereas here in Thailand he is definitely something special. Whether or not that is a good thing, long term, we'll just have to wait and see.

[spear]

"We are trying our best to raise the IQ of the country"

And good for children if they have asian father/mother to improve their EQ too,Because asian in average has higher EQ than european

[chuchok]

Anyway, back on track I would have to say that the Chinese as a race seem to be smarter than the average bear.In NZ it seems as though a large percentage of school Dux are Chinese.

Actually, it isn’t race. As a rule, it’s generally the children of the latest set of migrants who do well, supported by their parents who want to give their kids the best opportunities. Cultural attitudes to education and social betterment do have something to do with it too. Thus once upon a time it was the Irish, Jews, the Italians and Greeks, then the Vietnamese, Sri Lankan’s and now the Chinese. Soon it will be the Ethiopians, Somalians and lord knows who else.

Well going by that rule would mean that in NZ in the late 70's early 80's, pacific Islanders would top of the class.....It didn't happen.

Or it would mean that Italians,Greeks and lebanese would rise to the top of the food chain in Oz schools....or maybe kiwis.

If you took a percentage of chinese in NZ i'd bet a truck load that they would come out on top in schools.

[greenwanderer108]

The future of Luuk kreungs in Thailand?

We will will rule Thailand of course..

Anyway, I think it's nothing new and recent. Surely, the world is becoming more global and populated...And the vietnam war brought a wave of caucasions to this region, followed by yet another sexual revolution, exploitation of an existing industry...but it certainly wasn't the first wave of east/west breeding in this country...been going on for centuries, though the media has it's way of exploiting and shaping it...

From what I understand, Ayudhya had a very high percentage western population back in the day, and certainly the portugese, dutch, french, and english traders/explorers/soldiers were mingling with the locals...having pretty/handsome babies hundreds of years ago...

Didn't you guys ever see the regency commercial??

Anyway, I think it's likely that the luuk kreungs will just end up assimulating back with the Thais (or westerners depending on where they settle)...mating with the local ethnic majority. I've always been curious about 2nd and 3rd generation luuk kreungs (Luuk kruengs mating with luuk kruengs) but it's quite rare..doesn't look like i'll mate with a fellow luuk kreung any time soon. Most luuk kruengs i know including myself mate with full/semi-full east or west breeds. (i.e. Anna jamp )

Though it would be interesting if we only mated with luuk kruengs and had our own community, make a posh city club---The luuk kreung club, exclusive membership only Then we could buy our own island...Koh Luuk krueng...declare autonomy/independence. Then open an embassy in Bangkok...There I go getting carried away with my imagination

Anyway, the difference with being luuk krueng in Thailand and the USA, is luuk kreungs who grow up in Thailand have more of an automatic identity being placed in prestige just for being luuk krueng, whether authentically beautiful or not. Like many of the luuk kreungs I see (including myself) look like normal joes/janes back in the states, but are popular automatically just for being luuk kreung.

Back in the states, most of them would be just another mutt (like me of course)

As a luuk kreung, I don't consider all the mixed breeds as luuk kreung. There are some who were raised and bred in Thailand, and can't speak good English (or native of their mom/dad) . Those, are just Thais. Like my brother for example. He was born/raised in Thailand. Though his bio dad may have been American, he never knew him. He may have golden brown hair, but is dark as the next farmer, speaks/knows only Thai (and some Khmer/Chinese/Lao as any other Thai) and that's that. He's Thai.

Babble, bla, babble, bla!

[britainmal]

I think the Luuk kreungs' need to stand up for foreigners' rights in Thailand They have the power because they are Thai Nationals/Western Nationals. The problem is they pretend only to be 100 percent Thai.(example Tata Yang).

[tom yum goong]

Anyway, I think it's likely that the luuk kreungs will just end up assimulating back with the Thais (or westerners depending on where they settle)...mating with the local ethnic majority. I've always been curious about 2nd and 3rd generation luuk kreungs (Luuk kruengs mating with luuk kruengs) but it's quite rare..doesn't look like i'll mate with a fellow luuk kreung any time soon. Most luuk kruengs i know including myself mate with full/semi-full east or west breeds. (i.e. Anna jamp )

This is bound to happen of course. Unless as you say, us luk kruengs only mate with other non-Thais or each other. Maybe i should give Anna a call

As a luuk kreung, I don't consider all the mixed breeds as luuk kreung. There are some who were raised and bred in Thailand, and can't speak good English (or native of their mom/dad) . Those, are just Thais. Like my brother for example. He was born/raised in Thailand. Though his bio dad may have been American, he never knew him. He may have golden brown hair, but is dark as the next farmer, speaks/knows only Thai (and some Khmer/Chinese/Lao as any other Thai) and that's that. He's Thai.

Errm, how do u reach that conclusion? A luk krueng, or a person of mixed-race, is mixed-race no matter how they were brought up. If i could speak only Thai and had a nice tan, that would not make me (or your brother) any less of a luk kreung. Its not a state of mind you know.

Babble, bla, babble, bla!

Makes more sense than your previous paragraph.

I think the Luuk kreungs' need to stand up for foreigners' rights in Thailand They have the power because they are Thai Nationals/Western Nationals. The problem is they pretend only to be 100 percent Thai.(example Tata Yang).

I'm willing to bet a very large proportion of luk kreungs in Thailand are not western nationals, i.e. they only hold a Thai passport. Therefore, why would they see the need to stand up for foreigners' rights? For those that have been brought up in Thailand and only hold Thai nationality, I would say it is of the utmost importance that they act as Thai as they can, otherwise they will get nowhere fast.

As someone who has dual nationality (don't tell imigration ) and been brought up in both countries i find it hard enough to tread the middle line without kicking up a fuss over the rights of foreigners.

[gurkle]

I think the Luuk kreungs' need to stand up for foreigners' rights in Thailand They have the power because they are Thai Nationals/Western Nationals. The problem is they pretend only to be 100 percent Thai.(example Tata Yang).

Why in the world would they stand up for foreigners' rights? As soon as that happened, all job opportunities would probably close up for them since they are now associated with a foreign "invader", or at least outsider. Forget ever being considered a "Thai" celebrity.

There's a reason why the luuk kreungs here often marry with Thais - so they will still be considered a "special" Thai person versus "normal" farang. I would personally otherwise be suspicious of where their true loyalties lie.

It's the same reason why the Chinese in Thailand do better than those in other Southeast Asian countries. For example, in Indonesia there have been several large-scale massacres of Chinese living there who show off their success as a distinct ethnic group. In Thailand, the Chinese here assimilate well and even change their last names to be Thai.

[Ted]

The future of Luuk kreungs in Thailand?

We will will rule Thailand of course..

Anyway, I think it's nothing new and recent. Surely, the world is becoming more global and populated...And the vietnam war brought a wave of caucasions to this region, followed by yet another sexual revolution, exploitation of an existing industry...but it certainly wasn't the first wave of east/west breeding in this country...been going on for centuries, though the media has it's way of exploiting and shaping it...

From what I understand, Ayudhya had a very high percentage western population back in the day, and certainly the portugese, dutch, french, and english traders/explorers/soldiers were mingling with the locals...having pretty/handsome babies hundreds of years ago...

Didn't you guys ever see the regency commercial??

Anyway, I think it's likely that the luuk kreungs will just end up assimulating back with the Thais (or westerners depending on where they settle)...mating with the local ethnic majority. I've always been curious about 2nd and 3rd generation luuk kreungs (Luuk kruengs mating with luuk kruengs) but it's quite rare..doesn't look like i'll mate with a fellow luuk kreung any time soon. Most luuk kruengs i know including myself mate with full/semi-full east or west breeds. (i.e. Anna jamp )

Though it would be interesting if we only mated with luuk kruengs and had our own community, make a posh city club---The luuk kreung club, exclusive membership only Then we could buy our own island...Koh Luuk krueng...declare autonomy/independence. Then open an embassy in Bangkok...There I go getting carried away with my imagination

Anyway, the difference with being luuk krueng in Thailand and the USA, is luuk kreungs who grow up in Thailand have more of an automatic identity being placed in prestige just for being luuk krueng, whether authentically beautiful or not. Like many of the luuk kreungs I see (including myself) look like normal joes/janes back in the states, but are popular automatically just for being luuk kreung.

Back in the states, most of them would be just another mutt (like me of course)

As a luuk kreung, I don't consider all the mixed breeds as luuk kreung. There are some who were raised and bred in Thailand, and can't speak good English (or native of their mom/dad) . Those, are just Thais. Like my brother for example. He was born/raised in Thailand. Though his bio dad may have been American, he never knew him. He may have golden brown hair, but is dark as the next farmer, speaks/knows only Thai (and some Khmer/Chinese/Lao as any other Thai) and that's that. He's Thai.

Babble, bla, babble, bla!

Good post greenwanderer108 and interesting to read your thoughts. Hadn't really thought about the concept of Luuk Kreungs with luuk Kreungs. But then that is far from unique I hear in South Africa. I would hazzard a guess that that was due to negative connotations with the history of racial intolerance in SA (any South Africans TV members reading this who could explain why this is so common?)

Interesting what you said about 'the difference with being luuk krueng in Thailand and the USA, is luuk kreungs who grow up in Thailand have more of an automatic identity being placed in prestige just for being luuk krueng, whether authentically beautiful or not.' I went to school with a mixed Filipino / British kid who whilst his sisters were stunning, he looked a bit like Dwane Dibley from Red Dwarf (UK TV character - trust me, not a complement) - yet, according to him and confirmed by his family he seemed to take on superhero status when he took his annual trip to Manila. So clearly similar in the Phil too.

So does the attention Luuk kreungs receive make them want to stay rather than move to their faran parents home country? Is it the same for Luuk Kreungs as it is for Caucasians? I'm sure all caucasians in Asia enjoy being somewhat special, even it is only because of our ethnicity.

I'd stick my neck out on the line here and say the 'racism' (in the true definition of the word - 'to differentiate between races') we receive almost everywhere in Asia on a day to day basis is overwhelmingly positive.

[Ted]

I think the Luuk kreungs' need to stand up for foreigners' rights in Thailand They have the power because they are Thai Nationals/Western Nationals. The problem is they pretend only to be 100 percent Thai.(example Tata Yang).

Why in the world would they stand up for foreigners' rights? As soon as that happened, all job opportunities would probably close up for them since they are now associated with a foreign "invader", or at least outsider. Forget ever being considered a "Thai" celebrity.

There's a reason why the luuk kreungs here often marry with Thais - so they will still be considered a "special" Thai person versus "normal" farang. I would personally otherwise be suspicious of where their true loyalties lie.

It's the same reason why the Chinese in Thailand do better than those in other Southeast Asian countries. For example, in Indonesia there have been several large-scale massacres of Chinese living there who show off their success as a distinct ethnic group. In Thailand, the Chinese here assimilate well and even change their last names to be Thai.

Gurkle, I'd agree with you that Chinese do better in Thailand than they do elsewhere in the region, but would argue not so much to do with the Chinese there as the nations within which they are living. Wouldn't you think it would be easier to do integrate into a Budhist soceity than a Muslim one? Interestingly many Indonesians Chinese are now trying to follow Thailands lead by changing their names to lndonesian names - just at the same time Chinese are becoming increasingly accepted (Chinese New Year in Indonesia is now a public holiday)

Edited January 24, 2006 by Ted

[thedivezone]

"We are trying our best to raise the IQ of the country"

And good for children if they have asian father/mother to improve their EQ too,Because asian in average has higher EQ than european

"EQ" ? . . . . . "Eroticism Quotient" ? or "Eurasian Quotient" ?

[greenwanderer108]

This is bound to happen of course. Unless as you say, us luk kruengs only mate with other non-Thais or each other. Maybe i should give Anna a call

When your finished with her...give me her number

As a luuk kreung, I don't consider all the mixed breeds as luuk kreung. There are some who were raised and bred in Thailand, and can't speak good English (or native of their mom/dad) . Those, are just Thais. Like my brother for example. He was born/raised in Thailand. Though his bio dad may have been American, he never knew him. He may have golden brown hair, but is dark as the next farmer, speaks/knows only Thai (and some Khmer/Chinese/Lao as any other Thai) and that's that. He's Thai.

Errm, how do u reach that conclusion? A luk krueng, or a person of mixed-race, is mixed-race no matter how they were brought up. If i could speak only Thai and had a nice tan, that would not make me (or your brother) any less of a luk kreung. Its not a state of mind you know.

I guess I'm more referring to the cultural usage of 'luuk kreung'. Sure literally, luuk kreung refers to someone of mixed breed. Thais will joke all the time that some one who is half chinese or half lao is a luuk kreung...but in the pop cultural mass usage of the term, it generally refers to Thai-western, mid-eastern, and s. asian (non-chinese) mixes.

On the cultural outlook, luuk kreung will be quite often be used for people who are culturally mixed. i.e. speak thai mai chat, someone 'inter' with mixed english/thai speech...etc.

As far as my brother, sure he is 'luuk krueng' ethnically, but really thai 100 percent on the inside. Not bilingual or duo-national like the basic stereotype. When people meet him, they consider him just as another loon p' and 'luuk kreung' wouldn't even come to their minds unless they insisted on studying his features to the detail...

Me however, being raised western and assimulating/adapting Thai language/etiquettes/mannerisms on top of it fit more in to the 'luuk kreung' box not only physically but culturally, and linguisticly. Though I'm too too-let, na-daan, and guan-theen to ever work as model/poster boy

I think the Luuk kreungs' need to stand up for foreigners' rights in Thailand They have the power because they are Thai Nationals/Western Nationals. The problem is they pretend only to be 100 percent Thai.(example Tata Yang).

I'm willing to bet a very large proportion of luk kreungs in Thailand are not western nationals, i.e. they only hold a Thai passport. Therefore, why would they see the need to stand up for foreigners' rights? For those that have been brought up in Thailand and only hold Thai nationality, I would say it is of the utmost importance that they act as Thai as they can, otherwise they will get nowhere fast.

As someone who has dual nationality (don't tell imigration ) and been brought up in both countries i find it hard enough to tread the middle line without kicking up a fuss over the rights of foreigners.

And don't forget the large amount of luuk kreungs who are not culturally/nationaly assimulated in/with Thai culture at all. Those who are born and raised overseas. I was once one of them. I still have two sisters in the states who can't speak a lick of Thai, let alone ever been here...and can assure you there are many more who don't even know what luuk kreung means.

[greenwanderer108]

So does the attention Luuk kreungs receive make them want to stay rather than move to their faran parents home country? Is it the same for Luuk Kreungs as it is for Caucasians? I'm sure all caucasians in Asia enjoy being somewhat special, even it is only because of our ethnicity.

I think it's similar for luuk kreungs and full caucasians. luuk kreungs certainly have some advantage/benefits than full-farang have, but then again there are the disadvantages.

For example, there are many Thais who wouldn't even dare to mingle/mate with farangs because of the big cultural step, for fear of what their faimilies might think...but then again would feel more comfortable bringing a 'luuk kreung' home..So in that sense, 'luuk kreungs' have a wider pick of the Thai crop with less work.

But the luuk kreungs still deal with some racism (in the sense you use it) that farangs don't even get. Like for me, being born and raised american, many Thais won't not consider me an authentic American/forienger because I'm half. In Thai they would say something like but your not farang tae แท้ which means not authentic, etc..which does hurt to some extent being that I'm just as American as the next, and even more so than Arnold Swartzenager for example..

So getting the 'special' treatmeant, classification isn't always comforting.

[britainmal]

Why in the world would they stand up for foreigners' rights? As soon as that happened, all job opportunities would probably close up for them since they are now associated with a foreign "invader", or at least outsider. Forget ever being considered a "Thai" celebrity.

They also have foreigner blood and this is not true that all jobs will close up. Investment and Job Competition creates a better economy. This is why all Western countries in the world do not operate on this idealogy of Protectionism.

There's a reason why the luuk kreungs here often marry with Thais - so they will still be considered a "special" Thai person versus "normal" farang. I would personally otherwise be suspicious of where their true loyalties lie.

This is the problem in Thai Society and as long as you can speak the Language well and you like being here then, you should be accepted into this society. Just like everywhere else.

It's the same reason why the Chinese in Thailand do better than those in other Southeast Asian countries. For example, in Indonesia there have been several large-scale massacres of Chinese living there who show off their success as a distinct ethnic group. In Thailand, the Chinese her e assimilate well and even change their last names to be Thai

The Thai-Chinese do not consider themselves Chinese. This is why they don't have those same problems. They only consider themselves Thai. That is also why most Thai-chinese can't speak a word of Chinese versus other Asian and Western Countries.

Edited January 25, 2006 by britainmal

[meadish_sweetball]

Anyway, back on track I would have to say that the Chinese as a race seem to be smarter than the average bear.In NZ it seems as though a large percentage of school Dux are Chinese.

Actually, it isn’t race. As a rule, it’s generally the children of the latest set of migrants who do well, supported by their parents who want to give their kids the best opportunities. Cultural attitudes to education and social betterment do have something to do with it too. Thus once upon a time it was the Irish, Jews, the Italians and Greeks, then the Vietnamese, Sri Lankan’s and now the Chinese. Soon it will be the Ethiopians, Somalians and lord knows who else.

Well going by that rule would mean that in NZ in the late 70's early 80's, pacific Islanders would top of the class.....It didn't happen.

Or it would mean that Italians,Greeks and lebanese would rise to the top of the food chain in Oz schools....or maybe kiwis.

If you took a percentage of chinese in NZ i'd bet a truck load that they would come out on top in schools.

What I have seen of adoption into Sweden seems to suggest that it is mostly the environment/culture and not so much the genes that decide who will be successful in school or not.

The demands on families who adopted non-Swedish children were fairly strict - they had to be well-adjusted families with at least a certain amount of yearly income.

The children adopted were from different parts of the world - in my home town and in my age group they were from Korea, Thailand, Ethiopia, Vietnam, Brazil and Colombia.

Of the kids I grew up with, it was obvious that a larger percentage of the adopted kids than the "regular" Swedish kids did great in school. It was also obvious that a larger portion of children coming from immigrant families did worse than "regular" Swedish kids. These were the results I observed.

The right environment and upbringing will increase a person's ability to get somewhere in life, and also her/his intelligence as measured on standard IQ tests (the results are by no means static, and can be improved with practice of similar exercises).

Speaking generally, Chinese culture acknowledges the importance of study and has focused on meritocracy for a long time, has a long tradition of learning (although the Cultural Revolution tried its best to kill as many intellectuals and teachers as possible) and it is used to dealing with monetary matters.

In other words, it is better equipped for fitting into a capitalist society. To go to the extremes, people from a culture focused on rearing camels or hunting/gathering will not fare so well when forced to interact with a capitalist society.... but I bet the kids, if raised in a capitalist system by well-adjusted parents, would not prove significantly less successful than anybody else. It is the discrepancies between two cultures and systems that need a few generations before assimilation has happened...

This is besides the obvious negative effects of racism and xenophobia in the majority culture... which also affect people's self-image, confidence and willingness to adapt.

[meadish_sweetball]

Why in the world would they stand up for foreigners' rights? As soon as that happened, all job opportunities would probably close up for them since they are now associated with a foreign "invader", or at least outsider. Forget ever being considered a "Thai" celebrity.

They also have foreigner blood and this is not true that all jobs will close up. Investment and Job Competition creates a better economy. This is why all Western countries in the world do not operate on this idealogy of Protectionism.

Your picture of the West seems rather idealized to me. It is true that most Western countries speak against protectionism - but take a look at what is happening with agricultural subsidies in the EU and what the US have been doing to protect their industry from the outside. Speaking about an ideal is not the same as living it.

There's a reason why the luuk kreungs here often marry with Thais - so they will still be considered a "special" Thai person versus "normal" farang. I would personally otherwise be suspicious of where their true loyalties lie.

This is the problem in Thai Society and as long as you can speak the Language well and you like being here then, you should be accepted into this society. Just like everywhere else.

I agree that is the way it should be - but just speaking the language does not mean you will be accepted, at least not in any society I have experienced. If you look markedly different, have a foreign accent or behave in a significantly different way than the norm dictates, you will not be fully accepted by the majority people. Unfortunately. Just look at how many people grumble about immigrants in Europe - many of the second generation immigrants speak the language well enough to be understood by everyone - but if they choose to retain some of their cultural ways, it is largely not seen as positive (unless it is harmless things like singing and dancing).