Ngo Or Sexpat

[lovelomsak]

After reading the thread by pimping about falang women I felt it might be an urge to start this thread.

I basically would like some input about people taking women out of the "the working girl " lifestyle.I will use the word saved to simply make it easier because it is commonly called that.

In my life I havenot met one women who has been saved by NGO groups with all their funding and publicity. But since coming to Thailand I have met hundreds of men who have personnaly taken them out of the trade.

So what I would like to know, has anyone here personally known or met anyone saved by a NGO group. I amnot talking about reading an article somewhere were they claim to save them, but an actual person they know that has been saved. If you have I would like to hear about it.

In the same tone I would like to hear if anyone has met a man who has married a woman and taken her out of the trade. Or how many they have met.

Last but now least how do you judge the guys who have married these women. Do you think of them as lost souls? Men who marry down to help someone they care about? Maybe judge them as men who can get no better? Men who see good in all people and wish to nourish that in a woman. Men who care about people no matter what their station in life? Men who want a better life for someone they feel deserves it? Please add more if you wish.

I should add I amnot a man strong enough to take on the challenge. My gf is a kindergarden teacher at a christian school. But her husband was a drunk,a gambler and a womanizer,who didnot take care of her or her children and took from the family rather than take care of them.

[lovelomsak]

oops can anyone help fix the title to read ngo or sexpat not sepat

[Ulysses G.]

I've met many men who married BGs over years and some of the relationships have been very successful and some have not. As far as the men saving the women, from what I have seen, it usually ends up being the other way around.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[rics21]

I knew my wife when she was in the university. Serious age-gap there.

Most of my mates back home, will always consider her a Thai bar girl. All because she is Thai.

And I m considered a expat/ sexpat working in the mist of bargirls in bkk.

Sent from my XT910 using Thaivisa Connect App

[necronx99]

Many NGO's start with good intentions but usually just wind up as employment and support services for misguided fools who though getting an arts or humanities degree was a good idea.

[chiangmaikelly]

I know a hundred that have been saved by older men. Some back to Farangland some in big homes and businesses in Thailand. My oldest friend in Thailand is a bar owner who was a massage girl in 1968 and now owns and manages a bar that her first Farang BF gave her 40 years ago. Saved by an NGO? Don't they teach them how to sew? I read something about that. The only way to change a persons life is by a substantial commitment of time and money. What NGO has the resources to do that?

[tinfoilhat]

Many NGO's start with good intentions but usually just wind up as employment and support services for misguided fools who though getting an arts or humanities degree was a good idea.

a friend of mine kindly refers to them as cockroaches.

nice to make 80k US a year to to good deeds.

[lovelomsak]

Many NGO's start with good intentions but usually just wind up as employment and support services for misguided fools who though getting an arts or humanities degree was a good idea.

a friend of mine kindly refers to them as cockroaches.

nice to make 80k US a year to to good deeds.

Thanks guys this is exactly what I was trying to get at. So in reality no one has ever met a woman saved by these NGO'S. They are just empty vessels making a lot of noise.

I personally have never met a woman saved by NGO'S.Sometimes I feel they are worse than the bargirl. They parasite a good life pretending to be of service. Cockroach is a good name for them.

[necronx99]

Many NGO's start with good intentions but usually just wind up as employment and support services for misguided fools who though getting an arts or humanities degree was a good idea.

a friend of mine kindly refers to them as cockroaches.

nice to make 80k US a year to to good deeds.

Thanks guys this is exactly what I was trying to get at. So in reality no one has ever met a woman saved by these NGO'S. They are just empty vessels making a lot of noise.

I personally have never met a woman saved by NGO'S.Sometimes I feel they are worse than the bargirl. They parasite a good life pretending to be of service. Cockroach is a good name for them.

A person i bumped into in Aust before I left told me he was coming over to Laos with an NGO for 4 weeks to volunteer teaching english. He thought this was a noble use of his time. he had to buy his own ticket and the NGO was charging him 2 grand for food and board in a village!

[bonobo]

Just because someone has not met anyone "saved" by an NGO does not mean they don't exist.

First of all, "saved" is a rather loaded term with significant connotations. It implies that anyone in the adult entertainment trade is somehow forced into it and needs to be saved. Not everyone wants to be "saved."

Second, most men who meet local women and men who are or who have been in the industry were in fact in the industry at the time. They met in a bar in Pattaya or wherever. If they needed "saving," they haven't been saved yet. However, someone who has made use of an NGO to get out of the industry, who has been taught a trade, well, that person is back in Buriram or Roiet now with a job. How often do foreign men get out to the factories in Issan, or Chonburi, for that matter, and meet workers, there, especially workers who may have had pasts where they are not overly eager to meet foreigners anymore?

I have worked alongside many NGO personnel, and as a whole, I have found them to be good-hearted, earnest people who are willing to sacrifice for a perceived good. I did visit a training center in Cambodia for prostitutes trying to leave that lifestyle, and I did speak to some of the women there. Women and men who have been assisted by NGOs in finding options other than prostitution do exist. But if you are on a quest to find them, then that won't be in the bars but rather back at their homes.

[Plucky]

My friends sister works as an NGO. in Africa for $1600 a month. Surely it should just cover expenses such as food and accommodation and a minimum wage to buy basics?

I have travelled extensively in Africa and the biggest <deleted> I met were some American doctors sat next to me on the flight over. Clearly going over to use their expertise but I got the feeling not to help but so they could go back to America and live off the story of 'helping in Africa' at dinner parties for the next 30 years.

Most people don't help because they care. It's so they can return home and profane the 'holier than thou' attitude to all around them. You can see them wriggling in their seats with glee at the forthcoming question of what they do and the following praise heaped upon them.

I put NGO's in with the religious. They all want to be seen as good people doing good deeds but what they are after is praise and preferential treatment not to genuinely help others. Some admittedly are there to help but they are in the minority I feel.

Also how many of these little helpers have you seen going on about how poor the people they help are and how we should all strive to consume less and contribute more followed by pulling out the ubiquitous expensive iphone, mac book or ipad?

Edited August 24, 2012 by pimping

[ttthailand]

Also how many of these little helpers have you seen going on about how poor the people they help are and how we should all strive to consume less and contribute more followed by pulling out the ubiquitous expensive iphone, mac book or ipad?

Is that the same as the poor bar girl talking about she works bar to take care of her family and then a phone rings and she pulls out her new Iphone 4s....

[chiangmaikelly]

Learning a trade and going to work at a factory in Issan. OK how much does that pay? Oh come on. First off you need at least a BA or BS for any kind of money and future. Unless you can hook an old guy who will stick with a woman and pay for her education she is lost in the same cirlce of poverty that effects most poor people. First she has to go back to HS and then on to college. 4 years, 6 years minimum. Or the old guy buys a store and gas station and teaches her how to run it. Or the old guy buys her a pig farm and shows her family how to manage that. Old sex pats give the ladies some chance of success.

[GreenSnapper]

Many NGO's start with good intentions but usually just wind up as employment and support services for misguided fools who though getting an arts or humanities degree was a good idea.

a friend of mine kindly refers to them as cockroaches.

nice to make 80k US a year to to good deeds.

And drive a Toyota Landcruiser.

NGOs are the modern version of the former missionaries. Useless spoilt kids who cannot find work back home.

[StreetCowboy]

My friends sister works as an NGO. in Africa for $1600 a month. Surely it should just cover expenses such as food and accommodation and a minimum wage to buy basics?

I have travelled extensively in Africa and the biggest <deleted> I met were some American doctors sat next to me on the flight over. Clearly going over to use their expertise but I got the feeling not to help but so they could go back to America and live off the story of 'helping in Africa' at dinner parties for the next 30 years.

Most people don't help because they care. It's so they can return home and profane the 'holier than thou' attitude to all around them. You can see them wriggling in their seats with glee at the forthcoming question of what they do and the following praise heaped upon them.

I put NGO's in with the religious. They all want to be seen as good people doing good deeds but what they are after is praise and preferential treatment not to genuinely help others. Some admittedly are there to help but they are in the minority I feel.

Also how many of these little helpers have you seen going on about how poor the people they help are and how we should all strive to consume less and contribute more followed by pulling out the ubiquitous expensive iphone, mac book or ipad?

I don't see why people should take vows of poverty just because they want to help others.

Equally, I don't see why NGOs should be prevented from paying good staff a decent wage, or employing the best staff at the going market rate, if that's what it takes to get the job done.

I know its easy to poke fun at do-gooders, but its just a form of wanking - doing the same thing over and over again with no criterion for success but your own enjoyment.

SC

[bonobo]

My friends sister works as an NGO. in Africa for $1600 a month. Surely it should just cover expenses such as food and accommodation and a minimum wage to buy basics?

I have travelled extensively in Africa and the biggest <deleted> I met were some American doctors sat next to me on the flight over. Clearly going over to use their expertise but I got the feeling not to help but so they could go back to America and live off the story of 'helping in Africa' at dinner parties for the next 30 years.

Most people don't help because they care. It's so they can return home and profane the 'holier than thou' attitude to all around them. You can see them wriggling in their seats with glee at the forthcoming question of what they do and the following praise heaped upon them.

I put NGO's in with the religious. They all want to be seen as good people doing good deeds but what they are after is praise and preferential treatment not to genuinely help others. Some admittedly are there to help but they are in the minority I feel.

Also how many of these little helpers have you seen going on about how poor the people they help are and how we should all strive to consume less and contribute more followed by pulling out the ubiquitous expensive iphone, mac book or ipad?

Hmm. So a doctor who is going over to Burkina Faso to perform cataract surgery is somehow wrong because he or she is doing it so people back at home admire them for it? That seems rather cynical to me. It seems to me that the bottom line is restoring sight to some individual. And I am sure that the person who can see again after 20 years of blindness doesn't give a hoot whether the surgeon wanted a pat on the back or whose motives were more altruistic.

And if that doctor wants a pat on the back, so what? Perhaps he or she deserves it. I rather admire that more than the colleague who stays back at home racking up those medical fees before going out for another 18 holes.

I personally and not a holier-than-thou-type individual, but neither do I castigate those who help others, whatever their motivation. Seems to me that criticizing them for that attitude is the pot calling the kettle black.

What ever your feelings about NGOs, to deny that they have given some prostitutes an alternative lifestyle because you have never met someone who gone down that path is really pretty silly. I have personally never met a Long Neck Karen, but I am pretty confident that they do in fact exist.

[brit1984]

The circumstances leading to anyone becoming involved in the sex industry (as a worker or a customer) will vary, but are likely to include some element of desperation or unfortunate life circumstances.

When prostitutes marry their customers (e.g. the foreign sex-tourists / sex-pats who marry bar girls in Thailand) they are both, in a way, rescuing each other from a rather sad situation.

I think NGOs are more concerned with victims of human trafficking / enslavement who are forced to work in brothels hidden in the back sois (with whom Farangs are unlikely to have much interaction).

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[tinfoilhat]

My friends sister works as an NGO. in Africa for $1600 a month. Surely it should just cover expenses such as food and accommodation and a minimum wage to buy basics?

I have travelled extensively in Africa and the biggest <deleted> I met were some American doctors sat next to me on the flight over. Clearly going over to use their expertise but I got the feeling not to help but so they could go back to America and live off the story of 'helping in Africa' at dinner parties for the next 30 years.

Most people don't help because they care. It's so they can return home and profane the 'holier than thou' attitude to all around them. You can see them wriggling in their seats with glee at the forthcoming question of what they do and the following praise heaped upon them.

I put NGO's in with the religious. They all want to be seen as good people doing good deeds but what they are after is praise and preferential treatment not to genuinely help others. Some admittedly are there to help but they are in the minority I feel.

Also how many of these little helpers have you seen going on about how poor the people they help are and how we should all strive to consume less and contribute more followed by pulling out the ubiquitous expensive iphone, mac book or ipad?

Hmm. So a doctor who is going over to Burkina Faso to perform cataract surgery is somehow wrong because he or she is doing it so people back at home admire them for it? That seems rather cynical to me. It seems to me that the bottom line is restoring sight to some individual. And I am sure that the person who can see again after 20 years of blindness doesn't give a hoot whether the surgeon wanted a pat on the back or whose motives were more altruistic.

And if that doctor wants a pat on the back, so what? Perhaps he or she deserves it. I rather admire that more than the colleague who stays back at home racking up those medical fees before going out for another 18 holes.

I personally and not a holier-than-thou-type individual, but neither do I castigate those who help others, whatever their motivation. Seems to me that criticizing them for that attitude is the pot calling the kettle black.

What ever your feelings about NGOs, to deny that they have given some prostitutes an alternative lifestyle because you have never met someone who gone down that path is really pretty silly. I have personally never met a Long Neck Karen, but I am pretty confident that they do in fact exist.

i am not tarring all ngo's with the same brush, but over my time in SEA i have known many. Many are posers, some do genuine good.

pretty much all of them have their children in the best international schools money can buy.

there is a cliqueishness (new word perhaps) to the NGO world, and it is much more pronounced in places like cambodia, laos and vietnam where there is a tendency to mutual back-slapping while pooling resources to have a local woman (in addition to the maid and guard) come in a couple times a week to cut fruit (true story).

Overall, in my experience the men seem preferable to the women, though, again, in my experience, the majority seem to be women.

The larger the organisation the greater the tendency towards bloat and excess.

[Morakot]

You might find this useful to understand some wider context:

Here some photos about an NGO project aiming to educate sex workers about HIV in Cambodia

https://www.facebook...171846589544004

And here a publicly founded project that aims to improve the quality of life of bar girls in Cambodia.

https://www.staffs.a...eer_sellers.jsp

Edited August 24, 2012 by Morakot

[Johnniey]

Do you actually think being stuck with boring old Gunther or Albert for years is being saved? They are still prostitutes but long term ones.

At least NGOs don't subject them to giving fat old men BJs to survive.

[bonobo]

Several years ago in a thread here on ThaiVisa, there was a thread which mentioned attempts to close down Cambodia's Svay Pak and the rampant child prostitution there. While no one actually came out in support of buying young girls and boys, several posters did complain about NGOs sanctimoniously sticking their noses into someone else's business.

Frankly, I am always taken aback by the criticisms leveled against NGOs as a whole by posters here. Sure, there are people abusing the NGO system. Some people are in it strictly to see what they can get out of it. But most, in my opinion, are there to do what they see as good. If some get a nice salary for that, so be it.

This is wholly conjecture on my part, but to me, I wonder if the slings leveled at NGOs in general are kneejerk reactions to a fear of being targeted. Sure, child prostitution is a safe target, but what if they go after adult prostitution next? And then alcohol? And after that, smoking? What if they close down all the bars? "What I am going to do here in Thailand then?"

Like I wrote, that is wholly conjecture without a shred of evidence to lend credence to the theory, and I could be completely wrong. But there has to be some reason why NGOs, whose purported raison d'etre is to do good, are the targets of so many attacks here in the forum.

[Scully]

I met an NGO up north several years back, a twenty something female from England. We got talking and over lunch she told me that she could find better paid work in London but would be bored to tears.

She was a very posh girl who was quite honest about the fact she did it for the lifestyle and if she helped people then that was a bonus.

[Beetlejuice]

I have known several guys that took the girls out of the bars and married them.

3 brought their wife’s back to the UK and each marriage was a complete disaster.

One of the husbands in the UK was left with their kids when his Thai wife suddenly decided she wanted to be single and party again. Another’s wife got to be friendly with some of the lads in the local pub. A little too friendly in fact and at times would fail to arrive home in the evening and reappear the next morning, often recovering from a hangover of drugs and drink.

Another guy married his Thai BG and in the UK brought her back to his a house in Surrey were they lived. It wasn’t long before the wife became involved with one of the many Thai massage services in the area, first without the husbands knowledge. After a time, hubby realised that he could not control his wife and that also ended in divorce, but he ended up losing his house and having to pay her off during the divorce.

Of course there are many successful examples, but personally, I would not get involved or be prepared to take the risks.

As for rescuing these girls, I think it`s a good idea, providing that at first it is confirmed that these women want to be rescued and are able to adapt to life outside their institutionalised sex industry, because it`s not as straight forward as some may believe, the above giving some typical examples.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Beetlejuice

[Morakot]

This is wholly conjecture on my part, but to me, I wonder if the slings leveled at NGOs in general are kneejerk reactions to a fear of being targeted. Sure, child prostitution is a safe target, but what if they go after adult prostitution next? And then alcohol? And after that, smoking? What if they close down all the bars? "What I am going to do here in Thailand then?"

Are these rhetoric questions? Much NGO work with sex workers is merely providing help that these women can help themselves. Nothing else.

[norrona]

I have known several guys that took the girls out of the bars and married them.

3 brought their wife’s back to the UK and each marriage was a complete disaster.

One of the husbands in the UK was left with their kids when his Thai wife suddenly decided she wanted to be single and party again. Another’s wife got to be friendly with some of the lads in the local pub. A little too friendly in fact and at times would fail to arrive home in the evening and reappear the next morning, often recovering from a hangover of drugs and drink.

Another guy married his Thai BG and in the UK brought her back to his a house in Surrey were they lived. It wasn’t long before the wife became involved with one of the many Thai massage services in the area, first without the husbands knowledge. After a time, hubby realised that he could not control his wife and that also ended in divorce, but he ended up losing his house and having to pay her off during the divorce.

Of course there are many successful examples, but personally, I would not get involved or be prepared to take the risks.

As for rescuing these girls, I think it`s a good idea, providing that at first it is confirmed that these women want to be rescued and are able to adapt to life outside their institutionalised sex industry, because it`s not as straight forward as some may believe, the above giving some typical examples.

I know of guys in the UK married to western women that have had exactly the same as that above happen to them...I also know of guys in the UK that are on the other side of it all, as in 'they are the ones shagging someone else unhappy slut of a missus'

what I am saying is the above kind of thing is not exclusive to thai bargirls and their crinkly farang husbands

[DP25]

Lots of idiots in each group. At least the ngo workers are getting paid though, some of them have quite the scam going on.

[Plucky]

My friends sister works as an NGO. in Africa for $1600 a month. Surely it should just cover expenses such as food and accommodation and a minimum wage to buy basics?

I have travelled extensively in Africa and the biggest <deleted> I met were some American doctors sat next to me on the flight over. Clearly going over to use their expertise but I got the feeling not to help but so they could go back to America and live off the story of 'helping in Africa' at dinner parties for the next 30 years.

Most people don't help because they care. It's so they can return home and profane the 'holier than thou' attitude to all around them. You can see them wriggling in their seats with glee at the forthcoming question of what they do and the following praise heaped upon them.

I put NGO's in with the religious. They all want to be seen as good people doing good deeds but what they are after is praise and preferential treatment not to genuinely help others. Some admittedly are there to help but they are in the minority I feel.

Also how many of these little helpers have you seen going on about how poor the people they help are and how we should all strive to consume less and contribute more followed by pulling out the ubiquitous expensive iphone, mac book or ipad?

I don't see why people should take vows of poverty just because they want to help others.

Equally, I don't see why NGOs should be prevented from paying good staff a decent wage, or employing the best staff at the going market rate, if that's what it takes to get the job done.

I know its easy to poke fun at do-gooders, but its just a form of wanking - doing the same thing over and over again with no criterion for success but your own enjoyment.

SC

Sorry you are right. God what was I thinking! Voluntary work to help the poor that's not well paid. Shame on, me please accept my deepest apologies on this matter.

[Plucky]

I think the only plausible way for NGO's to help is to let the sex worker get paid but step in and let the old falang ride them into the sunset.

In all traits kind of like my local vicar back home floating about in a new BMW whilst asking for donations and preaching abstinence from evil materialism.

The church and NGO's is big business. A very small minority actually care. The rest are on the gravy train for self promoting purposes.

[brit1984]

I think the only plausible way for NGO's to help is to let the sex worker get paid but step in and let the old falang ride them into the sunset.

In all traits kind of like my local vicar back home floating about in a new BMW whilst asking for donations and preaching abstinence from evil materialism.

The church and NGO's is big business. A very small minority actually care. The rest are on the gravy train for self promoting purposes.

I am sure SOME (but not all) NGO workers are motivated partly by selfish reasons, and not solely by a selfless desire to help the poor.

I am also sure that ALL (not just some) foreign sex-tourists / sex-pats who marry prostitutes are not driven solely by their charitable tendencies.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[Plucky]

I think the only plausible way for NGO's to help is to let the sex worker get paid but step in and let the old falang ride them into the sunset.

In all traits kind of like my local vicar back home floating about in a new BMW whilst asking for donations and preaching abstinence from evil materialism.

The church and NGO's is big business. A very small minority actually care. The rest are on the gravy train for self promoting purposes.

I am sure SOME (but not all) NGO workers are motivated partly by selfish reasons, and not solely by a selfless desire to help the poor.

I am also sure that ALL (not just some) foreign sex-tourists / sex-pats who marry prostitutes are not driven solely by their charitable tendencies.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

So the people pretending to be saints for the glory hunting are not all doing it for charity.

And the non charitable organisation fellows are all not doing it for charity.

Thankyou you've really cleared it up for me there.