Rice Fertilising - What Are You Using And When?

[IsaanAussie]

over the last few years I have gotten more confused by the fertilisers used around here on the rice crops. Seems all backside up to me, but try to change the views of the lemmings around here. So I have basically been playing the follow blindly course. I did change to King Fert fertiliser last year with great success and we yielding about 550kg per rai.

This year the tractor with stuffed hydraulics left it parked up and nothing was added to the ground preplanting. When the rain started and the rice started to grow properly I added urea at about 15kg per rai and the rice is green and lush. Most of the locals are using 16-16-8 or 15-15-15 at this stage and that has me confused, surely too early for the P and K and not enough N?

I am going to use my own fertiliser later as the crop nears flowering this year and see what happens.

Interested in the thoughts of those that know more on rice cropping, not my strong point.

[Pond Life]

For the last 2 harvests (one per year) we have achieved a yield of 900 kg per rai.

We have done this without the use of any chemical fertilisers, herbicides or pesticides.

In addition to the rice yield we also harvest about 20 ducks per rai, without buying any food for them.

After the rice we grow some wheat & beans, also without any chemicals.

The only real cash outlay for 1 year, for a 1/2 rai field was about 2000 B for 80 bags of cow shit.

I agree that the local farmers use & timing of NPK is illogical, but do you really need any at all ?

I'd be happy to expand on our methods, if anyone is interested.

[cooked]

I have been wondering about this question myself and had thought that maybe the P-K part was slow release, which sounds unlikely.

You get results if you google 'organic rice Thailand.

Consulting with my technical consultant (BIL) he tells me that they give 16-8-8 after planting, then the same now, they have been waiting for rain before fertilising. They do differentiate between soil types, we also mhave sandy soils and there they give a higher dosage (of course).The soil here in Isaan is said to be incapable of raising anything but rice, most of it goes under water in the rainy season.

I myself would be interested in having more details, maybe I could do half a Rai.

[IsaanAussie]

Pond Life,

Congratulations that is some yield under any conditions, no reason for you to change. I for one am very interested in any further info you wish to share!

For me, common sense says use our manure based compost and EM type treatments preplanting. Maybe I need to resist selling the compost but reality is the return on sales more than covers the fertiliser purchases and contributes to the feed bills. Difficult cycle to break out of.

I share the opinion that most chemical fertiliser is not necessary if green manure crops can supply most of the nitrogen and manure composts can supply the potassium and phosphate requirements. Undoubtedly, much of the Urea (nitrogen) is leeched out beneath the roots very quickly.

[RedBullHorn]

The plot of land beside my ponds, side by side in a stretch, the UIL & AIL... no Urea no Chemical fertilizer, only fish poo and sluice pond water year round... yeild 1'300kg/rai (AIL) and 1'100kg/rai further down (UIL)...

The furthest plot of land belong to a neighbour yeild 850kg/rai with the aid from the pond water that i release into the stream and he block it downstream and channel to his paddies...

[Pond Life]

RBH, thats huge yields.

You say fish poo, do you dredge it off the bottom or is it just whats in the water ?

If you dredge, how do you do it ?

I have a pond with 50 cm of sludge at the bottom.

[RedBullHorn]

I call the backhoe and his dumpster truck team + 2 grader dozer (those equip with side track, not wheels)...

After the ponds are drain, the grader dozers goes into the ponds and bulldoze all the sluice mud to one side on the levees, the backhoe scoop it up and onto the dumpster which distribute to the paddy fields during the dry season in April after Songkran... i usually do 3 ponds every 3-4 years rotating among 9 ponds, 3 ponds sluice mud clearing cost ฿30'000.

[RedBullHorn]

This is the clip taken last year, the grader dozers were late because the transportation trailer had a flat tire... and the backhoe wouldn't wait.

All this poo from all this feeding... by the bucket load, i've 9 ponds to feed and I'll be death by

lunch time if i depend on the scoop alone.

[loong]

Sorry, what is UIL & AIL?

When people talk about rice yields per rai, are they referring to paddy rice before processing or the finished product?

[RedBullHorn]

AIL = Aunty-in-law

UIL = Uncle-in-law

Harvest yeild referred to paddies in the gunny sacks before processing... the finish product are call rice.

[Michael Hare]

My grass seed farmers are rice farmers. They apply NPK during the growing stages. Some use 15:15:15 and others use 26:16:8. When the plants start "booting" (that is when the seedhead is forming in the stem of the plants) they apply more nitrogen, The good farmers are also spraying on liquid fertilisers at this time which they incorrectly call "hormones" These liquid fertilisers supply numerous trace elements. Many of these liquid fertilisers do not state at all the different elements in their mixtures, if at all. Currently, I have large field trials underway looking at what percentage increase in grass seed yield one gets from various fertilisers and the economic returns. I have just returned from a field trip to Yasothon, Roi-et, Mukdahan and back to Ubon. Generally, most rice crops look very unhealthy and weedy. My farmer grass seed crops are a lush dark green and are thriving.

[somo]

Michael.

Would be great if you could tell us which foliar sprays are good. I am trying out an Italian product on some of my cassava (can't remember the name)

There seem to be so many around. Also do you know of any sprays that can supply NPK to plants?

Steve

[OOTAI]

IA as you do quite often, you have whetted my appetite to find out more about this issue. I did what everyone else does and used google and found an interesting paper which is titled:

Fertilizer Management in Rice Cultivation

Booklet No. 36

Manuers & Fertilizers: MFS-22

I don't know how to paste the document into this reply but if you use google (as I know you do) then you will find the document.

Although it was written back in the 90's and is talking about rice growing in India, I found it to be very informative. He even has a section where he talks about using a mixture of natural manures in combination with commercial fertilisers.

Keep posting and hopefully once I stop working for a living I can become a farmer again and learn more by being hands on rather than learning from google

[IsaanAussie]

Ootai,

Thanks for the reference I think I have that text but will check. Either way, thanks for the effort.

What would we do without Google? Even, how did we do it before Google? Mind Boggler....

[Michael Hare]

Michael.

Would be great if you could tell us which foliar sprays are good. I am trying out an Italian product on some of my cassava (can't remember the name)

There seem to be so many around. Also do you know of any sprays that can supply NPK to plants?

Steve

Hello Steve,

I am not a fertiliser expert. When we see good seed crops we ask the growers about their fertiliser programme. It varies greatly.

A few are all organic but these farmers have seed crops on their own land. The majority use a mixture of NPK fertilizers and foliar sprays. They use foliar sprays on their cassava. Farmers on rented land just use NPK.

As you say there are a huge range of foliar sprays on the market. Most brands don’t state on the labels what exactly is in their product. Trade secrets of a “con”.

It seems to work like this. A company goes into the villages, holds a meeting and does the sales pitch. Farmers try out the products. They are not cheap but the quantities applied are very small.

My seed growers swear by them. Some are using Otwo.

https://sites.google.com/site/otwothailand/

Otwo don’t state at all what is in their product.

Others use the expensive Amway product.

I have decided to do trials on what is available in the local farmer shops in Ubon.

These products have trace elements and amino acids. No NPK.

I want to know if these things really work or are they just a big “con”. And if they do work, then is it profitable?

I hope to have some answers by January.

[IsaanAussie]

Michael,

Happy to give some of my stuff to you to test. I would benefit greatly from an independant assessment, especially in comparison to a range of commercially available products. Let me know what you are looking for and lets discuss what we can do.

IA

[somo]

The italian stuff I mentioned is here http://www.cifo.it/flex/cm/pages/ServeBLOB.php/L/EN/IDPagina/658

An established company and you can buy the stuff here. I have tried it on about 5 rai of cassava but my guy decided to be extra helpful and mixed in some liquid NPK with it so if the crop is good will not be sure why!

Another one that apparently works well for rice is supergreen. or nano calcium from Germany. I found this fascinating as it purports to improve levels of carbon dioxide available to outdoor plants. A member here imports it and if you PM him I think he will send you a sample to try out. Username is krauti

Steve

[Kiggs]

I dont farm or anything but i have been reading through the posts, Can i ask what do you get per KG before processing. I know that every area will have its own price but just curious.

[IsaanAussie]

I dont farm or anything but i have been reading through the posts, Can i ask what do you get per KG before processing. I know that every area will have its own price but just curious.

Depends on many factors, variety of rice, moisture content and the amount of rice entering the market when you sell. Around here we usually get from 12 to 15 baht per kg for paddy rice. I grow Hom Mali 105.

[khwaibah]

I dont farm or anything but i have been reading through the posts, Can i ask what do you get per KG before processing. I know that every area will have its own price but just curious.

Last year 17 baht kg. Thats in Kap Choeng/Surin.

[David48]

Great thread IssanAussie and equally great contributions ...

.

[IsaanAussie]

Thanks Dave but rice farming is still largely a mystery to me. There are so many different approaches taken I get confused. So for anyone reading this, I am up on the Isaan plateau but still have low laying rainfed paddy fields, no irrigation other than the sprinkler in the sky.

Heres the theory as I understand it. Two issues, first the fact that the ground is flooded for months means anaerobic conditions in the soil and secondly, rapid leeching of nitrogen.

Many reports and studies suggest that there is no benefit in trying to improve soil in areas such as mine, if productive it should just be feed NPK to feed the rice. Because my treatment was to be manure based compost at about 1.5 ton per rai I need to be convinced that it will be worth the effort with some retention of humus etc..and especially any microbic life under anaerobic conditions. The compost alone should provide enough K and close on the P, but only about half the N required. Different sources give different rice required NPK amounts but nominally 120kg N, and about 30kg P&K per hectare.

Bear in mind that I make my own compost so the cost is low, but I turn and bag and carry every Kg of the stuff so the effort is considerable. We only have 13 rai of rice, but do the maths on the effort involved in producing 20 ton of compost manually.

To date I haven't none any preplanting compost incorporation for rice. But the results in non-flooding areas has been great.

So I am going to pelletise some compost that I have fermented and boosted with limes and phosphate so I can apply it to the flooded paddies and see what happens.

Any thoughts or experience would be appreciated.