Obama Likely To Win Another Presidential Term: Gallup Poll

[samran]

Not only am I stunned someone would cite "Gates of Vienna", I'm rather stunned that anyone here would openly admit perusing that site. (White Supremacy anyone?)

Having said that I did start reading one of the essays linked. I may even go back to it -- it was pretty freakin' funny.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

If you dare stop pointing to the source for a minute, perhaps you could consider the question I raised - this is imho an election where history will judge the losers benefit more than the winners, I'm speculating some people see it in these terms and may act accordingly.

Trust me Dan, if Romney loses, it will be be because of having friends like you.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Scott

[lomatopo]

Plenty of pejoratives, "redneck" being just one, have evolved over time, just look how "slaves" have evolved to "incarcerated".

THE CAGING OF AMERICA

Why do we lock up so many people?

BY ADAM GOPNIK

JANUARY 30, 2012

Mass incarceration on a scale almost unexampled in human history is a fundamental fact of our country today—perhaps the fundamental fact, as slavery was the fundamental fact of 1850. In truth, there are more black men in the grip of the criminal-justice system—in prison, on probation, or on parole—than were in slavery then.

Over all, there are now more people under “correctional supervision” in America—more than six million—than were in the Gulag Archipelago under Stalin at its height. That city of the confined and the controlled, Lockuptown, is now the second largest in the United States.

http://www.newyorker..._atlarge_gopnik

Edited November 2, 2012 by lomatopo

[Steely Dan]

Trust me Dan, if Romney loses, it will be be because of having friends like you.

Seeing as I'm not a U.S citizen I can neither vote nor make donations to U.S political parties, well at least not the Republicans.

[maidu]

Even if Obama wins it will be the shortest presidency in history when everything behind the Benghazi attack is revealed

You mean the Republican attack dogs will still be trying to make political hay out of a tragic overseas event? It they want to politicize tragedy, why not look to the hundreds of uniformed Americans who were killed in Lebanon during Prez Reagan's time in office.

All of us already KNOW what the Democrats have done and will continue to do - spend, spend, spend - and pay for it with $90 billion in additional taxes on the rich. Woo-hoo.

Obama spends and tries to find ways to lessen spending and lower the budget/debt (partly by raising taxes). Romney and Ryan plan to spend much more that Obama (1 to 2 trillion $$'s additional on defense alone, which the military isn't asking for). They don't want to touch taxes.

The US budget office took a look at Romney/Ryan spending plan, and concluded that they will have to reduce spending an average of 40% on ALL federal programs (except Medicare, SS and military which they say they won't touch) in their 1st 4 years. And, if they're in for a 2nd term, will have to further reduce spending 57% on all Federal programs. Just some of the programs they'll have to either eliminate or drastically reduce: veteran's benefits, CDC, Parks Service, Head Start (includes lunches for poorest kids), PBS, NPR, museums, Super toxic Sites, Environmental protection, FEMA, NASA, foreign aid, Peace Corps, safeguarding nukes, clean water and air, infrastructure, weather services, food safety,.... The list of goes on and on....

[maidu]

Here's my take on Romney and his religion: I think he would keep his religion largely a private matter, if he were president. However, if he has principles (and that, in itself is debatable), he would not expose them to voters before the election, because he's right-of-center, and that would alienate many liberal voters. Instead, he will say what his staffers think most voters want to hear, in order to try and garner as many votes as possible. Once in office, Right wing conservatives will readily influence him to lean more to his true beliefs, which are far-right of center. That will have dire consequences for Roe vs Wade, and gays, and there would be other surprises. Thankfully, he won't win, and Americans won't have to dodge all those silver projectiles in the bullet belt hidden under his black vest.

[SteeleJoe]

Not only am I stunned someone would cite "Gates of Vienna", I'm rather stunned that anyone here would openly admit perusing that site. (White Supremacy anyone?)

Having said that I did start reading one of the essays linked. I may even go back to it -- it was pretty freakin' funny.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

I think that type of site passes for mainstream in their world. Fox news is decidedly left wing in that context.

Funny thing is, they referred to Fox as being part of the dreaded Mainstream Media.

[Baloo22]

Just because you wish for something doesn't make it so.

Oh, wishing for an Obama victory is not me, I don't even particularly like the guy and to be honest, I have a lot more in common with Romney in most ways except being a Christian nut. My interest is mostly a sporting one, having placed a bet at the best time, just after Obama tanked the first debate.

But Romney is truly a man of little principles outside of his devotion to his cult.

I have been down your road before and I understand what direction you are coming from. You are calling his Mormonism a cult which is how Christians describe Mormons. If you are staying up with the news, the Christian websites have removed those claims and are now supporting Romney. If the cult thing is all you are concerned with, then you need to get over it because there are much bigger things at stake.

Shows how desperate conservatives are to elect someone 'other than Obama'. They'll even de-cult Mormons in order to vote for the Mitt.

Not to mention, not wanting to see his tax returns to learn how he's managed to dodge taxes, create an IRA worth over 100 mil. Not care that his business experience has been looting companies instead of starting them from scratch and making them successful - what most of us think of when we think of starting a business. Or that he doesn't say squat about what his positions are, how he's actually going to reduce taxes while increasing military budgets, and on and on. The lying sack of bull that's the Mitt Romney is all they've got, covered in ugly warts. Conservatives are probably coming out of the election booth, finger in throat, puking their guts out having to vote for the Mitt.

Many thinking voters are definitely "desperate" to elect someone other than Obama. Especially after looking at his three and a half years of failure. The only abilities that he has demonstrated any excellence in is smooth talking and the ability to blame pretty much everybody else on the planet for his failures. His record demonstrates to any thinking person that it is time for him to be fired. All his campaign has got is a bunch of frantic smears and groundless scare tactics.

Hiring the same man, Obama, who has demonstrated failure for the last three and a half years and somehow expecting different results is true insanity!

This American is a Christian and I have a great deal of respect for Mormons and DO NOT feel any need to sling a bunch a mud at them. I've known many people of the Mormon faith, served with people of the Mormon faith in the U.S. Army and have had several Mormons as friends. I regard those who use terms as "cult" to describe Mormons as nothing more than bigot scum. They are demonstrating their own ignorance and their own bigotry.

[lomatopo]

Hiring the same man, Obama, who has demonstrated failure for the last three and a half years and somehow expecting different results is true insanity!

So where were you in 2004?

This American is a Christian and I have a great deal of respect for Mormons and DO NOT feel any need to sling a bunch a mud at them. I've known many people of the Mormon faith, served with people of the Mormon faith in the U.S. Army and have had several Mormons as friends. I regard those who use terms as "cult" to describe Mormons as nothing more than bigot scum. They are demonstrating their own ignorance and their own bigotry.

You do realize that Sen. Harry Reid (D) Nev. is higher up on the LDS, pretty much at the top, hierarchy; higher than Gov. Romney.

Edited November 2, 2012 by lomatopo

[SteeleJoe]

Even if Obama wins it will be the shortest presidency in history when everything behind the Benghazi attack is revealed

You mean the Republican attack dogs will still be trying to make political hay out of a tragic overseas event? It they want to politicize tragedy, why not look to the hundreds of uniformed Americans who were killed in Lebanon during Prez Reagan's time in office.

I question the relevance but if we're going to discuss that -- and what I've always felt was Reagan's horrific failure (and which Osama bin Laden later confirmed) -- then you shouldn't forget the 79 people killed in the bombings of the US Embassy (including American diplomatic staff, American CIA employees and US Marines).

Edited November 2, 2012 by SteeleJoe

[SteeleJoe]

This American is a Christian and I have a great deal of respect for Mormons and DO NOT feel any need to sling a bunch a mud at them. I've known many people of the Mormon faith, served with people of the Mormon faith in the U.S. Army and have had several Mormons as friends. I regard those who use terms as "cult" to describe Mormons as nothing more than bigot scum. They are demonstrating their own ignorance and their own bigotry.

I'm not a Christian. However, I've lived in Utah and have family there. I've known many Mormons and all of them fine people as far as I know with some values and accomplishments that I admire. Moreover I've done a fair bit of reading on LDS. I think you'll find I'm NOT ignorant on this subject.

But their belief system and the history they claim to believe in is preposterous to me and I can't think of anything that would distinguish it from a cult. I strongly suspect that anyone who thinks that unreasonable -- including a Christian -- just doesn't know much about Mormonism or is suffering from an extreme lack of objectivity.

PS:

I've found Mormons to be a lot more tolerant than you appear to be.

Edited November 2, 2012 by SteeleJoe

[Chicog]

More good news for Obama - and bad for Romney. But of course there are a dozen ways to spin it:

US economy adds 171,000 in October

And the numbers are in: and it's looking very good. The top line is that 171,000 jobs were added in October – but the jobless rate rises to 7.9%, up from 7.8%.

And the Labour department says there was no impact from Hurricane Sandy.

The short answer is that this is a good number: well above expectations of 125,000, and above the 150,000 that economists say is needed to keep pace with population growth.

[lomatopo]

I don't get the jobs correlation at all.

If I have a job, how does it influence me? I guess maybe if the numbers are good I think I can get another job, maybe so I go with Obama?

If I don't have a job I might be angry no matter the numbers, things are improving but I still don't have a job, or things are getting worse and I still don't have a job. Plus Faux News and the 'Publicans are telling me the numbers are fake and I should be angry.

[notmyself]

But their belief system and the history they claim to believe in is preposterous to me and I can't think of anything that would distinguish it from a cult. I strongly suspect that anyone who thinks that unreasonable -- including a Christian -- just doesn't know much about Mormonism or is suffering from an extreme lack of objectivity.

If it is preposterous or not or even if it was true or not would mean nothing as to Mormonism being a cult. If someone was unwilling to call Mormonism a cult they they would not have any grounds to call anything a cult, the word and understanding would be meaningless.

[SteeleJoe]

But their belief system and the history they claim to believe in is preposterous to me and I can't think of anything that would distinguish it from a cult. I strongly suspect that anyone who thinks that unreasonable -- including a Christian -- just doesn't know much about Mormonism or is suffering from an extreme lack of objectivity.

If it is preposterous or not or even if it was true or not would mean nothing as to Mormonism being a cult. If someone was unwilling to call Mormonism a cult they they would not have any grounds to call anything a cult, the word and understanding would be meaningless.

But their belief system and the history they claim to believe in is preposterous to me and I can't think of anything that would distinguish it from a cult. I strongly suspect that anyone who thinks that unreasonable -- including a Christian -- just doesn't know much about Mormonism or is suffering from an extreme lack of objectivity.

If it is preposterous or not or even if it was true or not would mean nothing as to Mormonism being a cult. If someone was unwilling to call Mormonism a cult they they would not have any grounds to call anything a cult, the word and understanding would be meaningless.

Uhmmm...OK?

If you are trying to point out that any religion could be called a cult, then I agree with that not very original observation. If you are also pointing out that any adherent of a religion would object to it being called a cult, and deny it, I would also agree with that obvious fact.

But I think in terms of plausibility and credulity, as in virtually everything, there are degrees. Rather than alienate the Christian whom I was addressing by stating that all organized religions are arguably cults -- and thus getting into a believer vs apostate conflict rather than a political one -- I thought I'd point out the fact that to me, even someone who believes in the virgin birth, the Resurrection and so on should find the claims of the Mormons to be outlandish.

[Baloo22]

Hiring the same man, Obama, who has demonstrated failure for the last three and a half years and somehow expecting different results is true insanity!

So where were you in 2004?

This American is a Christian and I have a great deal of respect for Mormons and DO NOT feel any need to sling a bunch a mud at them. I've known many people of the Mormon faith, served with people of the Mormon faith in the U.S. Army and have had several Mormons as friends. I regard those who use terms as "cult" to describe Mormons as nothing more than bigot scum. They are demonstrating their own ignorance and their own bigotry.

You do realize that Sen. Harry Reid (D) Nev. is higher up on the LDS, pretty much at the top, hierarchy; higher than Gov. Romney.

"So where were you in 2004?" -- Totally irrelevant to the topic.

"You do realize that Sen. Harry Reid (D) Nev. is higher up on the LDS, pretty much at the top, hierarchy; higher than Gov. Romney."

So what, so what, and, wait for it; So What! If he chooses LDS for his religion, that's just fine for me. I have no problem with that. Spent 20 years defending our right to make our own choices of faith.

I wonder how big a shit-storm would erupt here on Thai Visa if a bunch of posters would start referring to Buddhist beliefs as "preposterous" and "outlandish" and repeatedly call Buddhism a cult. mmmmm?

[Scott]

There has been enough discussion of religion, particularly Mormonism. I think it's time to move on.

[Steely Dan]

Removed, posted before Scott's direction.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Steely Dan

[folium]

I hesitate to post this as the source police will no doubt dismiss it out of hand, but it echoes a thought that occurred to me; The prize for winning the election is truly a poisoned chalice, the MSM know it, the Clintons know it, so in that case why not throw Obama to the wolves so the final collapse of the economy takes place with the Republicans at the helm?

For the above speculation to hold any water I would expect a late breaking of the ranks in covering for Obama and his incompetence. Perhaps this is what we are seeing. I recommend part 1 of the link posted below as well.

http://www.gatesofvi...ory-part-2.html

Perhaps more hesitation re rolling out GoV as supporting evidence for your opinions on the US election or whatever, would be to everyone's advantage. All it does is ensure that your views are barely registered which is obviously unfortunate.

[folium]

Even if Obama wins it will be the shortest presidency in history when everything behind the Benghazi attack is revealed

You mean the Republican attack dogs will still be trying to make political hay out of a tragic overseas event? It they want to politicize tragedy, why not look to the hundreds of uniformed Americans who were killed in Lebanon during Prez Reagan's time in office.

I question the relevance but if we're going to discuss that -- and what I've always felt was Reagan's horrific failure (and which Osama bin Laden later confirmed) -- then you shouldn't forget the 79 people killed in the bombings of the US Embassy (including American diplomatic staff, American CIA employees and US Marines).

Plus the 305 US, French and Lebanese killed in the twin suicide bombings of the barracks in Oct 1983.

[SteeleJoe]

Even if Obama wins it will be the shortest presidency in history when everything behind the Benghazi attack is revealed

You mean the Republican attack dogs will still be trying to make political hay out of a tragic overseas event? It they want to politicize tragedy, why not look to the hundreds of uniformed Americans who were killed in Lebanon during Prez Reagan's time in office.

I question the relevance but if we're going to discuss that -- and what I've always felt was Reagan's horrific failure (and which Osama bin Laden later confirmed) -- then you shouldn't forget the 79 people killed in the bombings of the US Embassy (including American diplomatic staff, American CIA employees and US Marines).

Plus the 305 US, French and Lebanese killed in the twin suicide bombings of the barracks in Oct 1983.

Apparently you missed something. The bombing of the US barracks was mentioned in the post I replied to and indeed was the reason I posted. I didn't mention the French because while it was equally tragic and unjust, it was not directly pertinent in the context of this thread.

You can be sure I'd not forgotten -- that day had a significant impact on my life.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[Neurath]

It's still possible that the Romney/Ryan ticket can win this election, but it's very unlikely and likely less than a 30% chance. So, it's probably prudent to start considering what this likely loss will do to the career of Congressman Paul Ryan. Could he successfully blame the hurricane, the Lamestream Media and/or the Romneys for the loss? Is he young enough to re-brand but not appear to flip-flop? More importantly, which part of the campaign will he come to see as the prick in the Republican's overly tumescent balloon - the run to the Right in the Primary or the run to the Center-left and love of motherhood in the Campaign? Who knows, but anyone cheering a Romney loss should do well to consider what Romney Senior's loss did to the psyche of Romney Junior and note how many Sons haveth the Michigan tree lover.

[hellodolly]

Baloo22

I admit you may be on to some thing here.

"Many thinking voters are definitely "desperate" to elect someone other than Obama."

There problem is that they are thinking voters and are saddened by the fact there is no one capable of replacing him.The poor man took over a sinking ship and has manage to keep it a float. It's economy is showing signs of a recovery. That in it's self was a accomplishment. Unemployment is no longer falling.

Obama is not a business man and the bottom line to him is not profit. He has no idea of how to ship jobs over seas and avoid tax's with off shore accounts.

[hellodolly]

There has been enough discussion of religion, particularly Mormonism. I think it's time to move on.

I thought you would never ask.

I vote for Obama because he has saved a sinking ship in the midst of a world wide economic melt down and has put in a system for more Americans to have health care. He is dedicated to cutting back the military budget. I think he figures that the ability to kill every man women and child on the planet about a dozen times is good enough. He knows that the methods of war fare requiring huge outlays of money are useless in this day and age. He has no plans for invading Iran.

Romney is a business man he knows how to ship jobs over seas to improve the profits of his company. He knows how to save on tax's with off shore accounts. He doe's not understand that it is peoples lives he is spending to save money. He claims all kinds of wondrous government when he was a governor. He just fails to mention that it was in economical good times. He is clueless when it comes to running a government when times are hard and the opposition will vote against you just because they want you to fail.

[nurofiend]

obama was handed a pile of manure, it takes longer than four years to plant seeds and turn manure into roses. (not really but still, it's an analogy alright!!)

That's just more of the "buck never stops at Obama" blame game. Obama is very good at blaming pretty much everyone else on the planet for his failure. He spreads blame around like he is spreading grass seed. Blame Bush, blame Republicans, blame everybody else he can and yet seems to accept no responsibility himself. That's not leadership. Not for a squad leader in the Army or President of the United States.

It's clear. He has had nearly four years and failed. Time for him to be fired. I've never said Romney is perfect and I don't agree with everything he says. But he does have far more management experience. There is no doubt. If you want different results than the last four years, you don't rehire the failure Obama.

i don't agree that he is a failure, some failures yes, but i don't agree with such an acute statement, i guess that's where the difference lies.

and i'll bet we'll see the american public will agree with me in the election.

[Jingthing]

Yes I know the Washington Post has a liberal bias and it was a foregone conclusion they were going to endorse Obama, but this opinion article is just too spot on not to highlight:

http://www.washingto...8d93_story.html

Mitt Romney’s campaign insults voters

How, other than an assumption that voters are too dim to remember what Mr. Romney has said across the years and months, to account for his breathtaking ideological shifts? He was a friend of immigrants, then a scourge of immigrants, then again a friend. He was a Kissingerian foreign policy realist, then a McCain-like hawk, then a purveyor of peace. He pioneered Obamacare, he detested Obamacare, then he found elements in it to cherish. Assault weapons were bad, then good. Abortion was okay, then bad. Climate change was an urgent problem; then, not so much. Hurricane cleanup was a job for the states, until it was once again a job for the feds.

Yes it will be extremely depressing if the American voters fall for these tactics.

I do think the plutocrat label for Romney fits like a glove. Plutocrats can't be expected to have any respect for the great unwashed ... voters ... now, can they?

Edited November 2, 2012 by Jingthing

[notmyself]

[notmyself]

“Glitch” wipes out 1,000 early votes in black FL neighborhood

http://americablog.com/2012/11/computer-glitch-votes-black-florida-county-election-fraud.html

[notmyself]

Idiocracy is a 2006 American film, a satirical science fiction comedy, directed by Mike Judge and starring Luke Wilson, Maya Rudolph, Dax Shepard, and Terry Crews. The film tells the story of two ordinary people who take part in a top-secret military hibernation experiment, only to awaken 500 years in the future in a dystopian society full of extremely dumb people. Advertising, commercialism, and cultural anti-intellectualism have run rampant and dysgenic pressure has resulted in a uniformly stupid society devoid of intellectual curiosity, social responsibility, and coherent notions of justice and human rights.

Which party?

[Markaew]

If the cult thing is all you are concerned with, then you need to get over it because there are much bigger things at stake.

Actually I would have thought there is quite a significant stake in keeping religious nutcases out of positions of power.

Romney has a history in business and government and has shown that he doesn't mingle the two, that is, religion and profession. Where are you getting Romney is a nutcase? How do you base you judgement?

I was speaking generally, separation of church and state and all that.

Having said that, it's difficult to know if Romney is a religious nut or not because he changes his flipping positions so often.

Many politicians and people have changed positions on life/abortion. Personally, I don't care about that because nobody is going to change existing laws. So what has Romney flip-flopped on so many times?

[notmyself]

So what has Romney flip-flopped on so many times?

If the member works and does not have endless hours at hand it may be better to ask what he has not flipped on to keep it short..

Romney used to believe flip flopping was great but then he changed his mind.