Jayman Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) No, that was not my intent. The original massage tip message kind of got lost as the tipping discussion expanded (my fear). Both Americans and many non Americans are in fact ignorant of the exploitation of workers and I, as an American, was hoping better from my countrymen. I do understand the diverse makeup of the Pattaya tourist population and why some nationalities (Japanese, Indian, etc.) do not tip because it it not part of their culture. Those nationalities need to be educated when in a tourist town like Pattaya. By the way, I have been told the Russians do give nice tips. This is an interesting side to the discussion - "exploitation". I think most tourists come to Pattaya because it is cheaper than back at home, and the main difference is due to labour being cheaper. Are we "exploiting" people by coming here? Even if you leave a decent tip (say 100%. for example) you could still be guilty of "exploiting" if you compare the price to the price of a massage back at home. The idea is you also have to compare the cost of living here with that back home. You can't just pick and chose what you compare. It's common sense really. People have to eat and have place to sleep. Does their wage support their family eating and having a place to sleep? Of course there are various degrees of living standard but this again needs to be considered when making these comparisons to "back home". Also, this is why things are different here in Pattaya compared to other places in Thailand like some local spot in Issarn. The cost of living here in Pattaya is higher. The rent is higher. Food prices higher. Cost of a motorbike taxi are higher. and as far as your comments that they don't care about tips and are working to exploit foreigners and find mr right (are those one in the same in your eyes?)... you and I must frequent very different places. 99% huh? Edited November 27, 2012 by Jayman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poanoi Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 If it really is a social program, then 50 baht x 8 hours is 400 baht a day, with one day off per week that turn out to 10.000 baht per month. If you are into charity and targeting the poor , a better way would be to open a free noodle soup stand, and perhaps a shelter for those in need. Tipping is an outdated and unworthy way of make a living, it creates the sense that the servant should be grateful to even get an income. Stop it and they will leave for another job if it is that bad, and market will make sure they get the appropriate salary, should they decide to go back. That salary is not something they have to be grateful for, they can demand it 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tropo Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) No, that was not my intent. The original massage tip message kind of got lost as the tipping discussion expanded (my fear). Both Americans and many non Americans are in fact ignorant of the exploitation of workers and I, as an American, was hoping better from my countrymen. I do understand the diverse makeup of the Pattaya tourist population and why some nationalities (Japanese, Indian, etc.) do not tip because it it not part of their culture. Those nationalities need to be educated when in a tourist town like Pattaya. By the way, I have been told the Russians do give nice tips. This is an interesting side to the discussion - "exploitation". I think most tourists come to Pattaya because it is cheaper than back at home, and the main difference is due to labour being cheaper. Are we "exploiting" people by coming here? Even if you leave a decent tip (say 100%. for example) you could still be guilty of "exploiting" if you compare the price to the price of a massage back at home. The idea is you also have to compare the cost of living here with that back home. You can't just pick and chose what you compare. It's common sense really. People have to eat and have place to sleep. Does their wage support their family eating and having a place to sleep? Of course there are various degrees of living standard but this again needs to be considered when making these comparisons to "back home". Also, this is why things are different here in Pattaya compared to other places in Thailand like some local spot in Issarn. The cost of living here in Pattaya is higher. The rent is higher. Food prices higher. Cost of a motorbike taxi are higher. and as far as your comments that they don't care about tips and are working to exploit foreigners and find mr right (are those one in the same in your eyes?)... you and I must frequent very different places. 99% huh? The very next sentence in the post I made, which you omitted from the quote, addressed the "cost of living" issue. Also note that I used the words "COULD still be guilty of" in my sentence you bolded. Yes, the cost of living is higher for Thais living in Pattaya than farming districts, but most of these Thais came here out of choice and weren't born here. You don't think they're here to exploit (find) generous foreigners? It was only a guess - perhaps 99% was a bit low. Edited November 27, 2012 by tropo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uptheos Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 OP Are you a Cheap Charlie if you don't tip? Does it matter? Most people on here are, though they will go to great lengths to say otherwise. Personally, I never give less than 100 Baht for any service. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolley Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Whatever way you look at it 100 baht for an hour of hard physical labour doing a massage of which the girl only gets 50baht is dirt cheap and quite deserving of a healthy tip. But yet the excuses still keep coming. I dont come from a country that tips but I sure understand where there is a need to tip. Tipping also makes me feel good. All you CCs should try it one day. Giving something to someone who has given you something is nice for both parties. CCs are missing out on one of life's pleasures....helping others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbrain Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 So what about a poor pensioner in Pattaya? He gets a pension of 20,000 baht a month. After, paying rent and essential expenses, he has about 300 baht a day for food. Is he not allowed to go for a massage for 100 baht every now and again, without being insulted as a CC? Tips are voluntary. You should try to say that to a waiter in a US restaurant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tropo Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) Whatever way you look at it 100 baht for an hour of hard physical labour doing a massage of which the girl only gets 50baht is dirt cheap and quite deserving of a healthy tip. But yet the excuses still keep coming. I don't waste my time at these cheap massage places these days, but after spending quite a bit of time in rice farming community in the Philippines where people work in the hot sun on rice or sugar cane fields for 120 peso (83 baht) per day and have to provide their own food, my perspective is somewhat different. Edited November 27, 2012 by tropo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolley Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Whatever way you look at it 100 baht for an hour of hard physical labour doing a massage of which the girl only gets 50baht is dirt cheap and quite deserving of a healthy tip. But yet the excuses still keep coming. I don't waste my time at these cheap massage places these days, but after spending quite a bit of time in rice farming community in the Philippines where people work in the hot sun on rice or sugar cane fields for 120 peso (83 baht) per day and have to provide their own food, my perspective is somewhat different. Well everyone can call on examples of people worse off and more deserving etc but that is not the point really as they are not the ones providing you with the service. Surely you wouldnt use that as a rationale not to tip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobo Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Many of the posters in this forum talk about principles. "I don't give tip." Fine. But if You live in Thailand You must have discovered it's NOT like in Europe or wherever You come from. It's a very important part of their salary. If You get a good treatment at a massage place or somewhere else it's very essential for them that You show them some appreciation ! If the treatment is bad, no tip..but if You are satisfied and content, I can't understand why You don't give them a tip..I just don't understand..really I don't understand what universe You come from... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tropo Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) Whatever way you look at it 100 baht for an hour of hard physical labour doing a massage of which the girl only gets 50baht is dirt cheap and quite deserving of a healthy tip. But yet the excuses still keep coming. I don't waste my time at these cheap massage places these days, but after spending quite a bit of time in rice farming community in the Philippines where people work in the hot sun on rice or sugar cane fields for 120 peso (83 baht) per day and have to provide their own food, my perspective is somewhat different. Well everyone can call on examples of people worse off and more deserving etc but that is not the point really as they are not the ones providing you with the service. Surely you wouldnt use that as a rationale not to tip? Actually I do because my resources are limited. These are not people far away that I see on the daily news, but people I come in contact with personally and people who ask for donations. Most are poorer than the 120 peso per day rice farm workers because they don't have a job. Some of these donations are a matter of life or death. Call me Robin Hood. I steal from the rich (Thai massage staff) and give to the poor in PI. I use this rationale every time I'm tempted to donate over here.... If that makes me a cheap charlie, so be it. Edited November 27, 2012 by tropo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poanoi Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) I'm financing a social program myself, this year i spent ~90.000 baht Edited November 27, 2012 by poanoi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiBob Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Many of the posters in this forum talk about principles. "I don't give tip." Fine. But if You live in Thailand You must have discovered it's NOT like in Europe or wherever You come from. It's a very important part of their salary. If You get a good treatment at a massage place or somewhere else it's very essential for them that You show them some appreciation ! If the treatment is bad, no tip..but if You are satisfied and content, I can't understand why You don't give them a tip..I just don't understand..really I don't understand what universe You come from... I couldn't agree more. My view is a tip is a like thank you, an appreciation for performing your job satisfactorily. The massage person, the food server is at the bottom of the economic ladder and to show some gratitude to others makes me feel good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taff33 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 I'm financing a social program myself, this year i spent ~90.000 baht WOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tropo Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 I'm financing a social program myself, this year i spent ~90.000 baht Good work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbrain Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 I'm financing a social program myself, this year i spent ~90.000 baht Does the program call MIL Isaan ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoonman Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 I'm financing a social program myself, this year i spent ~90.000 baht I usually raid the ladies handbag for money whilst she is showering then give her that as a tip/taxi money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobra Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) The constant refrain of the cheap, ... it's the principle of it, they don't need it, don't deserve it, I'm on a budget, .... The fact is cheap people are just greedy and miserly and generally unpleasant to be around. Their rationalizations are comical, most are very well off. I'm forced to grossly over-tip to compensate for all the charlies to let the locals know we're all not cheap. They all know me, smile at me, don't spit in my food, all this for change that would otherwise end up in the ash tray. I also tip the beggars but I expect to see nubs . And yes, the minimum tip for anything is at least 100b or more. I tip 300b for anything strenuous and 1000b if they really, really think I'm hansum, Edited November 28, 2012 by cobra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgs2001uk Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 The constant refrain of the cheap, ... it's the principle of it, they don't need it, don't deserve it, I'm on a budget, .... The fact is cheap people are just greedy and miserly and generally unpleasant to be around. Their rationalizations are comical, most are very well off. I'm forced to grossly over-tip to compensate for all the charlies to let the locals know we're all not cheap. They all know me, smile at me, don't spit in my food, all this for change that would otherwise end up in the ash tray. I also tip the beggars but I expect to see nubs . And yes, the minimum tip for anything is at least 100b or more. I tip 300b for anything strenuous and 1000b if they really, really think I'm hansum, And yes, the minimum tip for anything is at least 100b or more. I will be in Pattaya next week, I can easily be in at least 10 different service providers each day. Are you seriously saying I should budget 1,000 baht per day just for tips. Lets assume I will be staying for a month, that equates to 30k just in tips for one month alone. I often see Thais getting a 40 or 60 baht haircut and they sure aint tipping. I often see my mrs giving tips of about 20 baht. Never mind always good to hear the farangs spouting off about a Thai society and protocols they know nothing about. I wonder if these white knights are as generous with their money to Thai male service providers as they are to females? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPuddingBertha Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 And yes, the minimum tip for anything is at least 100b or more. So you tip at least 100B for a 40B beer? Doesn't make much sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tropo Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) The constant refrain of the cheap, ... it's the principle of it, they don't need it, don't deserve it, I'm on a budget, .... The fact is cheap people are just greedy and miserly and generally unpleasant to be around. Their rationalizations are comical, most are very well off. I'm forced to grossly over-tip to compensate for all the charlies to let the locals know we're all not cheap. They all know me, smile at me, don't spit in my food, all this for change that would otherwise end up in the ash tray. I also tip the beggars but I expect to see nubs . And yes, the minimum tip for anything is at least 100b or more. I tip 300b for anything strenuous and 1000b if they really, really think I'm hansum, Some people tip big just to show off. Other's are probably just showing off on the forum and not truthful. Edited November 28, 2012 by tropo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 The constant refrain of the cheap, ... it's the principle of it, they don't need it, don't deserve it, I'm on a budget, .... The fact is cheap people are just greedy and miserly and generally unpleasant to be around. Their rationalizations are comical, most are very well off. I'm forced to grossly over-tip to compensate for all the charlies to let the locals know we're all not cheap. They all know me, smile at me, don't spit in my food, all this for change that would otherwise end up in the ash tray. I also tip the beggars but I expect to see nubs . And yes, the minimum tip for anything is at least 100b or more. I tip 300b for anything strenuous and 1000b if they really, really think I'm hansum, Some people tip big just to show off. Other's are probably just showing off on the forum and not truthful. And l would wager that those who tip big are thought of as plonkers by a grateful recipient. ................ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayman Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) And l would wager that those who tip big are thought of as plonkers by a grateful recipient. ................ I don't think a Thai you give a few hundred baht tip to is going to look at you as a "plonker" since they already assume you have much more money than them since they certainly can't afford to get on a plane and travel the world and obviously you can. They are more likely to think of you as black hearted if you fail to tip for the same reason I have just listed. It's also very much part of Thai culture for those with money to be given the opportunity to show how good hearted they are by spending it (ie. paying for the meal, drinks, a wedding, etc...). And that has nothing to do with being a foreigner.. Than is amongst Thais. of course I read that in a book called "Thailand Fever" talking about the concept of "naam jai" so maybe I got it all wrong. Edited November 28, 2012 by Jayman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poanoi Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 You might. My ex hiso gf said many complained she was kineaow, her response was -yes, i am, that's why i have money ! OTOH she would also tip a hotel parking slot guy 20 baht for some reason that i cant understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 And l would wager that those who tip big are thought of as plonkers by a grateful recipient. ................ I don't think a Thai you give a few hundred baht tip to is going to look at you as a "plonker" since they already assume you have much more money than them since they certainly can't afford to get on a plane and travel the world and obviously you can. They are more likely to think of you as black hearted if you fail to tip for the same reason I have just listed. It's also very much part of Thai culture for those with money to be given the opportunity to show how good hearted they are by spending it (ie. paying for the meal, drinks, a wedding, etc...). And that has nothing to do with being a foreigner.. Than is amongst Thais. of course I read that in a book called "Thailand Fever" talking about the concept of "naam jai" so maybe I got it all wrong. I will stand by what l said, and it is not totally from my thought, it is what l have be told by native folk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderDuck Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Am I A Cheap Charlie If I Don't Tip? yes you are No ... your not American. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uptheos Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 And yes, the minimum tip for anything is at least 100b or more. I tip 300b for anything strenuous and 1000b if they really, really think I'm hansum, Quite right - me too! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somtampet Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 You might. My ex hiso gf said many complained she was kineaow, her response was -yes, i am, that's why i have money ! OTOH she would also tip a hotel parking slot guy 20 baht for some reason that i cant understand maybe her boyfriend lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbrain Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 You might. My ex hiso gf said many complained she was kineaow, her response was -yes, i am, that's why i have money ! OTOH she would also tip a hotel parking slot guy 20 baht for some reason that i cant understand maybe her boyfriend lol Boyfriend Brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayman Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Am I A Cheap Charlie If I Don't Tip? yes you are No ... your not American. oh.. then you are Cheap Charles 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiBob Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Am I A Cheap Charlie If I Don't Tip? yes you are No ... your not American. oh.. then you are Cheap Charles Ouch!....that hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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