Am I A Cheap Charlie If I Don't Tip?

[Briggsy]

All the masseuses in Pattaya get 50 baht of the 100 baht per hour. The other 50 Baht goes to the establishment.

In addition, they have to clean the shop on a rota basis which takes about an extra hour or so, usually after the shop closes so this is from 11pm to midnight. They are not paid for this and this is about every 3 days.

If they weren't paid tips, they would not do the job as it would be uneconomic. If you said before the massage, I will not tip, they would all refuse your custom.

It is a fact of getting a massage in Thailand that you are expected to tip, like in a restaurant in the US. The exception is where the service is really bad.

So, in answer to your question, if you don't tip, yes you certainly are a cheap charlie.

This does not apply to other businesses in Pattaya like restaurants. I'm just talking about straight massage here.

[transam]

2. There are also many countries that don't have the tip habit. So, live and let live. Nothing to do with cheap charlie or blah la la.

That is what Cheap Charlies use for an excuse. Massage therapists work for practically nothing in Thailand and often have to wait for hours to get a customer and they only get paid for the time that they actually work.

That is NOT a customers problem.

[Briggsy]

2. There are also many countries that don't have the tip habit. So, live and let live. Nothing to do with cheap charlie or blah la la.

That is what Cheap Charlies use for an excuse. Massage therapists work for practically nothing in Thailand and often have to wait for hours to get a customer and they only get paid for the time that they actually work.

That is NOT a customers problem.

#

It will be if the same customer returns to the same shop on another day. I guarantee the same masseuse will be highly unenthusiastic and will probably refuse the job. If she tells her mates, which she will, the customer will probably have to take his/her custom elsewhere.

[poanoi]

I just asked my gf on this topic.

She said sometimes tip sometimes don't, depending if the massage girl put her back into it or not.

and if she do, it is 20 baht tip.

I think that is the norm you can adhere to

Edited November 17, 2012 by poanoi

[Neeranam]

2. There are also many countries that don't have the tip habit. So, live and let live. Nothing to do with cheap charlie or blah la la.

That is what Cheap Charlies use for an excuse. Massage therapists work for practically nothing in Thailand and often have to wait for hours to get a customer and they only get paid for the time that they actually work.

That is NOT a customers problem.

#

It will be if the same customer returns to the same shop on another day. I guarantee the same masseuse will be highly unenthusiastic and will probably refuse the job. If she tells her mates, which she will, the customer will probably have to take his/her custom elsewhere.

And this is due to the big tippers. The idiots who tip 50%. They come here and don't realize the value of money in this country.

It's the same on the golf course - I'm often getting caddies asking for more of a tip. If they ever do this, they then get none.

As I told a caddie recently, my wife has a job paying 300 baht a day, why on earth should I tip a caddie 200 baht when they did a shit job The 18 holes cost 200 baht and the caddie fees are 60 baht. Because some foeiegners her give 200 baht and some more - this makes them think that when they see a foreigner, they don't have to do a good job as they're all idiots who think the tip is mandatory.

[beachroadlover2]

I just asked my gf on this topic.

She said sometimes tip sometimes don't, depending if the massage girl put her back into it or not.

and if she do, it is 20 baht tip.

I think that is the norm you can adhere to

I agree. Worst thing to do is spoil the Thais. You can't come on this forum one day without hearing of another bad attitude story. I try to do as the Thai government does to its own people; keep them down so they work for you.

[lizardtongue]

My wife worked in a Thai restaurant, I would sit in the place and wait for her to finish work, all I can say is that if I were treated the way she was treated by some of the customers I would very soon be out of a job!

Their idea of a tip was between 5-10 Baht, on one occasion I saw a man leave some coins (estimate 20 Baht) when his back was turned his female companion pocketed most of the tip!

So when in Rome etc etc

[Jayman]

My wife worked in a Thai restaurant, I would sit in the place and wait for her to finish work, all I can say is that if I were treated the way she was treated by some of the customers I would very soon be out of a job!

Their idea of a tip was between 5-10 Baht, on one occasion I saw a man leave some coins (estimate 20 Baht) when his back was turned his female companion pocketed most of the tip!

So when in Rome etc etc

That's interesting. My wife worked in a restaurant as well and they worked 10 hour shifts with 2 days of a month for a mere 3000thb/month. The girls pooled the tips and used them to eat everyday. Knowing how important a tip is, she is very generous with service staff when we go anywhere. If I'm not happy with service and leave a small tip or a mandatory tip was included with the bill and I add nothing to it then it's my wife that goes into her pocket to add money to the tip.

I've never been to Rome but it sounds like a horrible place.

Edited November 18, 2012 by Jayman

[bdw]

they worked 10 hour shifts with 2 days of a month for a mere 3000thb/month.

That's pretty good pay for only 20 hours/month, two days of a month.

[Jayman]

they worked 10 hour shifts with 2 days of a month for a mere 3000thb/month.

That's pretty good pay for only 20 hours/month, two days of a month.

It's 2 days off a month but I reckon you just needed something clever to add.. score for you.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

Massage therapists work for practically nothing in Thailand and often have to wait for hours to get a customer and they only get paid for the time that they actually work.

They wait for hours because, just like the fish doctor places and the bars and the tshirt shops, there are 10 times more of them than there should be, all chasing the same elusive 100B.

If they want to earn more they need to get a job that is in demand, or do their own job better than everyone else so that they get more of the available business and are busy all day. This is real life. Sitting around on your backside for hours on end waiting for one customer to provide your daily wage via a big tip is just fantasy.

[transam]

Massage therapists work for practically nothing in Thailand and often have to wait for hours to get a customer and they only get paid for the time that they actually work.

They wait for hours because, just like the fish doctor places and the bars and the tshirt shops, there are 10 times more of them than there should be, all chasing the same elusive 100B.

If they want to earn more they need to get a job that is in demand, or do their own job better than everyone else so that they get more of the available business and are busy all day. This is real life. Sitting around on your backside for hours on end waiting for one customer to provide your daily wage via a big tip is just fantasy.

Agree.

Realistic wages should be included in the cost of what you are paying for, not feel sorry cos the proprietor is pocketing the lot.

Most Thais do not tip, l always give something, not cos l think they earn little it's because l did it in farangland all my life.

Here in LOS, in my favourite Chinese restaurant l always leave something, but there is this one guy, a wannabe girl, when he brings me the tab he puts his nose in the air, takes the money, brings back the change, l give him a tip, his nose is still in the air, he huffs and walks away , every time , obviously doesn't like a farang. The rest of the staff and proprietor are great.

Must add my mrs never tips.

[julemanden]

You have paid the requested rate for the job why should a tip be expected. Certainly not at the 50% and 100% rates being suggested here.

Guess we have a lot of cheap charlies in here

[Jayman]

You have paid the requested rate for the job why should a tip be expected. Certainly not at the 50% and 100% rates being suggested here.

Guess we have a lot of cheap charlies in here

To be fair, the Thais won't call you a cheap Charlie. What they will say is you have no nam jai.

[Briggsy]

They wait for hours because, just like the fish doctor places and the bars and the tshirt shops, there are 10 times more of them than there should be, all chasing the same elusive 100B.

If they want to earn more they need to get a job that is in demand, or do their own job better than everyone else so that they get more of the available business and are busy all day. This is real life. Sitting around on your backside for hours on end waiting for one customer to provide your daily wage via a big tip is just fantasy.

Not true. The massage salons (straight not sex industry) in Pattaya are heaving. There is a lack of people who are prepared to do the job. Speaking just yesterday, the women in one shop all clocked up 7 or 8 hours massage hours in one working day. All the beds were constantly put to use. 13 hours on the premises, 8 hours actually massaging, that is a very tough day's work and not sustainable over the long term.

Common sense dictates that this would drive up the pay of masseuses. This is not the case because:-

1) There is a power imbalance between the owners of the salons who fix prices and pay rates so as to eliminate price wars between the salons and the masseuses who get their 50 Baht + tip per hour. The masseuses have no leverage or say in the matter.

The solution would be to formalise the employment of masseuses so they might be able to access and utilise employment legislation. This is not going to happen anytime soon.

So, the temporary solution is for the customers and the workers in the industry to expect a tip as standard. Non-tippers are "cheap charlies" taking advantage of this power imbalance.

Once again, this is in reference to massage, not to restaurant workers or any other industry in Thailand.

[beachroadlover2]

Massage therapists work for practically nothing in Thailand and often have to wait for hours to get a customer and they only get paid for the time that they actually work.

They wait for hours because, just like the fish doctor places and the bars and the tshirt shops, there are 10 times more of them than there should be, all chasing the same elusive 100B.

If they want to earn more they need to get a job that is in demand, or do their own job better than everyone else so that they get more of the available business and are busy all day. This is real life. Sitting around on your backside for hours on end waiting for one customer to provide your daily wage via a big tip is just fantasy.

Why sit in a shop all day when you can sit in a bar all night (or part of) and make a nice pay day for less than hour's "work?"

[MJCM]

Massage therapists work for practically nothing in Thailand and often have to wait for hours to get a customer and they only get paid for the time that they actually work.

They wait for hours because, just like the fish doctor places and the bars and the tshirt shops, there are 10 times more of them than there should be, all chasing the same elusive 100B.

If they want to earn more they need to get a job that is in demand, or do their own job better than everyone else so that they get more of the available business and are busy all day. This is real life. Sitting around on your backside for hours on end waiting for one customer to provide your daily wage via a big tip is just fantasy.

Why sit in a shop all day when you can sit in a bar all night (or part of) and make a nice pay day for less than hour's "work?"

Maybe because these girls don't wanna work in a Bar and sell their body ???

[BlackPuddingBertha]

Not true. The massage salons (straight not sex industry) in Pattaya are heaving. There is a lack of people who are prepared to do the job.

Hmm. Maybe you live in some other place called Pattaya that I dont know.

When I walk around town (which I do frequently, with my eyes open) I just see endless massage parlours with no clients, each with a throng of masseurs of all sexes waiting outside.

I have no idea whether they are selling straight or bent massages, but they sure aren't selling many of them. Underemployment is the norm in Thailand, and it goes some way towards disguising what would be called huge unemployment figures in Western countries.

And if the massage parlours really were heaving with business then surely the "tip big because the girls earn nothing" argument made here just wouldn't hold water?

[poanoi]

I think these "give me tip or i scream arguments" have gone so far so i can

actually see a market for bars etc that specifically advertise

there won't be any tip begging whatsoever.

And not only in Thailand, i think you could make chains in US on this concept.

It is very repulsive to see beggars loud-mouthing for more free lunches

[Neeranam]

Massage therapists work for practically nothing in Thailand and often have to wait for hours to get a customer and they only get paid for the time that they actually work.

They wait for hours because, just like the fish doctor places and the bars and the tshirt shops, there are 10 times more of them than there should be, all chasing the same elusive 100B.

If they want to earn more they need to get a job that is in demand, or do their own job better than everyone else so that they get more of the available business and are busy all day. This is real life. Sitting around on your backside for hours on end waiting for one customer to provide your daily wage via a big tip is just fantasy.

Why sit in a shop all day when you can sit in a bar all night (or part of) and make a nice pay day for less than hour's "work?"

Is this a serious question?

Some people have pride, morals, integregity, honour, etc.

And if they sit in a girly bar they'll lose it all and be around those who have probably never had it.

Whatever job you can hold while preserving your honour and your fidelity to your obligations is fine. How can you serve your fellow citizens when you’ve become irresponsible and shameless? It’s better to be a good person and fulfill your obligations than to have money.

[transam]

ฺำำืฺฺิิBeen to a few countries where they add on a service charge, a charge for THEIR staff, think it was 15% in the USA, which to me is really taking the piss. If you like what you have had and the waiter/waitress was good THEN you tip. If it's crap then you don't tip.

[poanoi]

Giving a waiter/waitress a tip has got to be the most pointless tip around.

If i dont get the beer then i will obviously not pay,

so bringing me the beer is included in the price by default.

Any additional handout must be based on any additional service,

or it is a hidden charge, a scam in other words, and as such illegal.

[belg]

take it this way: do you tip in a macdo for your burger? i guess not !!!!

these girls and boys also make minimum wage .... 10 meters further is another restaurant, but there you go tipping, for the same service (food) ?

restaurants: always leave the coins....

[Pattaya46]

The custom for cheap massage places in Soi Boukow is to tip.

It is a fact of getting a massage in Thailand that you are expected to tip, like in a restaurant in the US.

That's doubly wrong.

- First it's not like that "in Thailand". I witness at my last massage at Sa Kaeo that no tip is expected and that customers seem to always give no tip. This is a touristic areas problem only (Pattaya, Phuket, ...)

- Even in Pattaya it's certainly not the rule. Ask your Thai friends what they give as a tip? Sometimes 10-20 baht, often zero. I don't know where you got your illusion that "the custom" or "the fact" is to tip...?

Even if the service is ordinary a 50 baht tip is really just to cover their time.

If it's really that, they should just add it in the price, putting it at 150 baht when 100 now, or with a mention like "100 baht + 50 baht for service"

Because you are an American and get this mandatory tip attitude does not mean that the OP is a Cheap Charlie.

[jbrain]

That's doubly wrong.

- First it's not like that "in Thailand". I witness at my last massage at Sa Kaeo that no tip is expected and that customers seem to always give no tip. This is a touristic areas problem only (Pattaya, Phuket, ...)

- Even in Pattaya it's certainly not the rule. Ask your Thai friends what they give as a tip? Sometimes 10-20 baht, often zero. I don't know where you got your illusion that "the custom" or "the fact" is to tip...?

If it's really that, they should just add it in the price, putting it at 150 baht when 100 now, or with a mention like "100 baht + 50 baht for service"

Because you are an American and get this mandatory tip attitude does not mean that the OP is a Cheap Charlie.

How did you " witness" that no tip is expected ?

Was it because you simply didn't give any, or was your tip refused

[NoshowJones]

Those who do not tip for a good service are CC's

I think my mailman gives a very good service, should I give him a tip?

Before I went to America for a holiday, I was reading a magazine about holidaying in America, and there was an article saying "expect to give 20% of your spending money on tips" after reading that I went through my whole holiday using hotels, restaurants and taxis etc and never gave a tip, and if I go to America again, I'll do the same thing. I will never give a tip unless the person giving me the service does more than they are required to, or it's to my advantage in some way.

[Neeranam]

You have paid the requested rate for the job why should a tip be expected. Certainly not at the 50% and 100% rates being suggested here.

Guess we have a lot of cheap charlies in here

To be fair, the Thais won't call you a cheap Charlie. What they will say is you have no nam jai.

I've never heard a Thai person say, "have no nam jai".

Do you know about the concept of 'nam jai' and 'boon koon'? Do you really think the massage girl in Pattaya will show the same 'nam jai' to the extravagant foreigner.

If you start talking about one Thai custom, make sure you know them all.

[ChaiLor]

Now then, anybody thinks Thai will give tip?

Quite often I think the best way for us foreigners to understand the correct thing to do in a situation is to see what the locals would do, I've been for many massages with a local and they always tip 100 baht for the massage, I follow suit and tip the same amount.

I don't like tipping in bars though unless I've built some rapport with a girl and I feel like tipping, I generally pick up all of my change in a bar (inc the 10 baht coins deliberately given in your change as a way of squeezing more money out of you) I hate the look they give you when you do that, not to mention what they shout out to their sisters in the bar, I just hate being mugged off by someone who thinks I'm just some prick there to give them money for nothing, I've paid for the beer already, why pay any more, the beers a rip off anyway! Prob not the best attitude for fun times in the bar, but I prefer to be viewed as a cheap charlie at worst (nobody's fool at best) than a dumb sucker at worst (kind hearted dog at best).

Of course if I'm drunk and I'm in the mood then my wallet tends to open too easy

I guess when it comes to tipping in Thailand it really depends where you are, if you're in a nightlife environment then it's not really tipping as far as I'm concerned - it's more gouging the farang - key distinction.

[Tolley]

The custom for cheap massage places in Soi Boukow is to tip.

It is a fact of getting a massage in Thailand that you are expected to tip, like in a restaurant in the US.

That's doubly wrong.

- First it's not like that "in Thailand". I witness at my last massage at Sa Kaeo that no tip is expected and that customers seem to always give no tip. This is a touristic areas problem only (Pattaya, Phuket, ...)

- Even in Pattaya it's certainly not the rule. Ask your Thai friends what they give as a tip? Sometimes 10-20 baht, often zero. I don't know where you got your illusion that "the custom" or "the fact" is to tip...?

Even if the service is ordinary a 50 baht tip is really just to cover their time.

If it's really that, they should just add it in the price, putting it at 150 baht when 100 now, or with a mention like "100 baht + 50 baht for service"

Because you are an American and get this mandatory tip attitude does not mean that the OP is a Cheap Charlie.

All the thais I know tip.

I guess it must just be the people that you hang out with.

[Traxster]

'Am I a cheap charlie if I don't tip'?

Yes you are .............