Remembrance Of War: Thai-Japan Friendship Memorial Hall

[Theoutsider]

The Japanese war effort against the English? No Scots .

[Jingthing]

Friendship is good. Museums are good. Naming museums about war -- friendship -- is DAFT. Agree to disagree.

Up to you.

But please don't assert a significance that is not there in this case of a small provincial museum.

You asked politely, and that's nice, but really, I can't agree to changing my own opinion which is strongly held. Imagine a bus tour of Chinese people seeing that place. Do you think they would think the Friendship name in the context of WW2 museum would have no meaning? I'm not suggesting countries previously at war or previously occupied can't be/shouldn't be friends. Not at all.

(BTW, if some people think my opinion about this is "pretentious rubbish" I can totally live with that. )

More friendship and less bitterness and hate might improve the world.

Less friendship and more bitterness and hate certainly will not improve the world.

My father served in Burma for 6 years BTW.( 39 to 45 )

Let's have a friendship museum and try and go forwards.

Death is too certain, life is too short.

Happy new year and let's hope it's a better one for all the world.

I wasn't proposing a museum named Bitterness either. Just the facts as much as possible would be fitting for a ... museum.

Related question and issue. Many feel it's OK that Thais in general are quite uninformed about the European theater in WW2 given they are in Asia. Whether that is true or not, Thailand was directly involved in the Asia Pacific theater. So given that, I can't see any kind of excuse why Thais wouldn't be taught about that in school. So what percentage of Thais do you reckon are informed about the Rape of Nanking? If so, really how could that be taught in a way that has a lot of sympathy to the Japanese role in that event? Is there some problem with history being taught just because it is unpleasant?

Edited December 28, 2012 by Jingthing

[jonwilly]

Agree with philw,

"More friendship and less bitterness and hate might improve the world.

My Dad fought jap in Burma, where he caught the Malaria which killed him as an old lad.

Hated them and turned him against his religion for he said, If there was a God he would never allow what my Father saw.

Later, in his fifies, he returned to his faith.

My friend, 93 year old CM resident, was in Burma from 41-45 and has forgiven jap.

Bad Times, Surely Now is time to forgive.

john

[LaoPo]

I personally knew a Japanese lady who worked with the Japanese occupation in Indonesia. She was ashamed of what the Japanese did in Asia. I think she would be cool with war museums all over Asia, but no whitewash names calling occupation -- friendship. Just call them what they are, about the war. So what if some Thais went with Japanese? Some French went with Germans too. It's totally ridiculous. Japanese knew they weren't in Thailand to be friends of the Thais anymore than the Germans were in Poland to be friends of the Poles. Book suggestion: The Rape of Nanking. Should be required reading for Thai schoolchildren. My blood pressure isn't impacted, don't worry. It's just that that it's obvious if Thais think it is normal to name such a museum FRIENDSHIP, something is really wrong with the education system here. We're in Thailand. We don't have to check our common sense at BKK.

To be clear. I am not implying the allies were saints either. At Hiroshima I would not expect a Japanese-American Friendship museum.

1. Rape of Nanking: (or The Forgotten Holocaust of WWII) or Nanking Massacre: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre

It is too horrible to show pictures here!

2. Nor would one expect a Japanese-American Friendship Museum in Pearl Harbor...would you ?

[LaoPo]

Agree with philw,

"More friendship and less bitterness and hate might improve the world.

My Dad fought jap in Burma, where he caught the Malaria which killed him as an old lad.

Hated them and turned him against his religion for he said, If there was a God he would never allow what my Father saw.

Later, in his fifies, he returned to his faith.

My friend, 93 year old CM resident, was in Burma from 41-45 and has forgiven jap.

Bad Times, Surely Now is time to forgive.

john

Not for everybody Sir!

I know an elderly Lady in my own country (amongst thousands of others in the same situation) who was forced by the Japs to work as a so called Comfort Girl....a prostitute-by-force but one who never got paid by the thousands of soldiers who raped her, day-in-day-out, for many years in Indonesia

She's old now, very old but do you think I could ask her if she would be able to forgive?

Maybe you can ask the thousands of Chinese and Southern Korean women and girls who were forced to work as Comfort Girls also?

[Jingthing]

I think there is some real confusion/mixing of DIFFERENT issues here. Forgiving past national enemies, moving on, becoming friends with old national enemies is obviously a very desirable thing in the general sense (with exceptions like going after specific war criminals, etc.). But teaching history accurately even if it is shameful to the nation presenting it, presenting history accurately in such places as museums is also something of value. There can be both.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

...

2. Nor would one expect a Japanese-American Friendship Museum in Pearl Harbor...would you ?

I wouldn't expect it but now large numbers of Japanese nationals and Japanese Americans are solidly harbored in modern Hawaii, living in peace and harmony there. No contradiction.

Also, one wouldn't expect a museum of the shameful American policy of internment of Japanese Americans to be called the American-Japanese Friendship Concentration Camp Museum.

[isanbirder]

Those of us who say the Lord's Prayer say, "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those that trespass against us." Quite a wise saying. Of course forgiveness is good, But we should also understand that those who suffered in wars find it hard to forgive their enemies; there's no surprise in that.

I think this whole issue of the Khun Yuam Museum has been blown up into something much bigger than it deserves to be. It's not even a precedent; there's a Thai-Japanese Friendship Bridge at Pathumwan, and you could probably find other examples. It is a small oasis of good in a desert of evil.

The history of any war is not solid uniformity; there are good things and bad things happening on both sides. We commemorate the bad things, like the Holocaust and the Burma-Siam Railway; we should also remember the good things. Unfortunately history is usually taught from a one-sided perspective; the Americans should be commended for bringing incidents like My Lai and Abu Ghraib into the public view. I doubt whether we did much of the same.

[jonwilly]

I have half a dozen books on the jap Military on my bookshelf.

Most where bought after reading a discussion on arrse, a Brit Military website.

A thread mentioned how Russian Officer prisoners spoke highly of the treatment received from Japanese troops for themselves and their men following their defeat in the Russo-Japanese War of early 20 Century. Similar tales where told by German forces of WW I taken prisoner by their Japanese victors.

It seems that the NAZI government of Japan in the brutalize their armed forces and this led to the atrocities of the 30's 40's.

Modern Japanese governments will not apologize for political reasons.

For about 4 years I had a Japanese couple live next door to me and better neighbours you could not ask for.

I have know several Japanese folk during my time in CM and find them polite and considerate.

I used to know a Thai of Japanese decent. His grandfather crossed into Thailand in 45 at Kun Yuam and decided enough. He married a Thai girl and raised a family the grandson being the man I knew.

Fluent in Thai, Japanese and English he was in permanently employment by Japanese organizations in and around CM.

I canot live in the past and will treat folk as I get to know them.

All warlike nations have their 'Past' sins my own included.

john

[isanbirder]

Thankyou, jonwilly. It's nice to hear from someone who has had real contact with the Khun Yuam matter. Jingthing couldn't be more wrong when he said it was unimportant to have been there and seen the place.

Museums are not just about the past, they're about the future too, to show what we should admire, and what we should avoid. The more personal museums are, the more useful they are for the future.

[Rasseru]

In my experience - which includes visiting a memorial service in Chiangmai by Thai Buddhist priests and monks and attended by very many Thai people as well as Japanese and interacting for some years with Thai people as one member of a Japanese-speaking couple - there is a greater feeling of sympathy and friendship among many Thai people for the Japanese than most farang know or, as I now conclude after reading this thread, would care to know, and even, yes, if it comes to that, than many of those Thai people have for farang.

[Rasseru]

Sorry, I should been clearer than I was in my last post. The memorial service I mentioned was for the Japanese soldiers who died in Northern Thailand in the Second World War.

[Jingthing]

In my experience - which includes visiting a memorial service in Chiangmai by Thai Buddhist priests and monks and attended by very many Thai people as well as Japanese and interacting for some years with Thai people as one member of a Japanese-speaking couple - there is a greater feeling of sympathy and friendship among many Thai people for the Japanese than most farang know or, as I now conclude after reading this thread, would care to know, and even, yes, if it comes to that, than many of those Thai people have for farang.

Little doubt of that. That's part of the history. Thailand offered almost no resistance and had a very Japan friendly fascist government. I'm just for telling the story and teaching the real history.

[Beetlejuice]

Friendship is good. Museums are good. Naming museums about war -- friendship -- is DAFT. Agree to disagree.

Up to you.

But please don't assert a significance that is not there in this case of a small provincial museum.

You asked politely, and that's nice, but really, I can't agree to changing my own opinion which is strongly held. Imagine a bus tour of Chinese people seeing that place. Do you think they would think the Friendship name in the context of WW2 museum would have no meaning? I'm not suggesting countries previously at war or previously occupied can't be/shouldn't be friends. Not at all.

(BTW, if some people think my opinion about this is "pretentious rubbish" I can totally live with that. )

More friendship and less bitterness and hate might improve the world.

Less friendship and more bitterness and hate certainly will not improve the world.

My father served in Burma for 6 years BTW.( 39 to 45 )

Let's have a friendship museum and try and go forwards.

Death is too certain, life is too short.

Happy new year and let's hope it's a better one for all the world.

How can a museum depicting the Japanese and darkest time in history be themed on friendship?

Why not base the museum on Thai/ Japanese technologies and achievements rather than the Japanese occupations during the war?

Jingthing is absolutely right and of course remembering that the Chinese suffered a Holocaust under the brutal reign of the Imperial Japanese Nazi regime.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Beetlejuice

[isanbirder]

How can a museum depicting the Japanese and darkest time in history be themed on friendship?

Why not base the museum on Thai/ Japanese technologies and achievements rather than the Japanese occupations during the war?

Jingthing is absolutely right and of course remembering that the Chinese suffered a Holocaust under the brutal reign of the Imperial Japanese Nazi regime.

The museum very precisely does NOT depict "the darkest time in history". It depicts a ray of light, albeit small, during that time

Also it is about Thais and Japanese, not about Chinese, Europeans or Americans. It's not for us to tell the Thais what to commemorate. I agree, it probably won't attract too many tourists, though.

[I Like Thai]

Why do so many BMs assume that Asian Thais should have supported invaders of European origin, over invaders of Asian origin ?

[Jingthing]

Why do so many BMs assume that Asian Thais should have supported invaders of European origin, over invaders of Asian origin ?

I wouldn't assume that. What's a BM in this context?