Democrats Are Worrying Over Clinton in 2008

By JOSH GERSTEIN - Staff Reporter of the Sun January 25, 2006

Senator Clinton's emergence as the early and perhaps prohibitive favorite for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2008 is fueling anxiety among Democratic strategists and operatives who are worried she would lose to a Republican in the general election.

Recent polling underscores some of those worries. In a CNN/USA Today/ Gallup poll made public yesterday, 51% of voters said they would definitely not vote for Mrs. Clinton if she chooses to run for president in 2008. In a separate nationwide poll conducted this month for a spirits company, Diageo, and a political newsletter, the Hotline, 44% of all voters and 19% of self-described Democrats said they viewed the New York senator unfavorably.

According to Democratic Party insiders, such numbers are adding to skittishness about Mrs. Clinton's potential candidacy.

"There are a lot of people who are conventional Democrats ideologically who think she can't win, and we're caught in this bind where she's unstoppable and therefore our goose is essentially cooked," a Democratic consultant and former aide to Senator Lieberman, Dan Gerstein, said.

Many Democrats are reluctant to criticize the former first lady in public. Indeed, Mr. Gerstein, who is no relation to this reporter, quickly added that he does not agree with those who think Mrs. Clinton would be doomed to defeat in November. But he acknowledges that the topic is widely discussed. "I don't believe that. I don't buy it, but it's surprising how often that's being repeated," he said.

A former chairman of the South Carolina Democratic Party, Richard Harpootlian, is among those who will own up to such misgivings. "Mrs. Clinton, because of some positions she has taken over the years, gets a visceral reaction to her here, both negative and positive. I'm afraid around the South and Midwest the visceral reaction is not good," he told The New York Sun.

Mr. Harpootlian said Mrs. Clinton would be bucking long-established trends against the election of a president who was a sitting senator and against candidates from the Northeast, while also seeking to be the first woman elected to the nation's highest office. "She's got to blaze all those trails at the same time," he said.

The South Carolina attorney was almost apologetic about his analysis and stressed that he's a "big fan" of Mrs. Clinton. "I don't think there's any question she's a very powerful, bright woman, but at the end of the day I want to win in '08. It's not about, 'Do I like her?' I do," Mr. Harpootlian said. He recently threw his support behind a former Virginia governor who is also mulling a bid for the Democratic nomination in 2008, Mark Warner.

A former White House chief of staff and budget director under President Clinton, Leon Panetta, conceded a "nervousness" exists in the party about Mrs. Clinton's general election prospects. He said the perception stems from concerns that her candidacy could cause a return to the bitter political fighting of the Clinton era.

"What people raise is the nervousness about, to some extent, what they went through with the Clintons, particularly in those last few years," said Mr. Panetta, who now runs a public policy institute in California. "Can she really bring the country together or is she the kind of lightning rod that would stimulate all of the opposition and the kind of 'hate' side of the political agenda resurrecting itself, making it an ugly campaign?"

Mr. Panetta also said the corruption scandals swirling around the capital at the moment could tilt the 2008 playing field toward an outsider. "Ultimately, it's the issue of, do we turn to somebody new? We've been through the Clintons, we've been through the Gores, we've been through the Kerrys - all of whom are known quantities in politics."

Several members of Mrs. Clinton's inner circle of advisers declined to be interviewed for this story, citing her public stance that she is focused solely on her re-election bid this fall and has not made a decision about whether to run for the presidency in 2008. However, a political strategist who served as a spokesman for the past two Democratic nominees, Christopher Lehane, disputed the notion that Mrs. Clinton is unelectable. He noted that some of the senator's critics said she could never surpass a 50% approval rating nationally, but she has done that in several recent polls. "It's pretty clear she's in a class by herself," Mr. Lehane said. "If she was on the ticket in 2004, would a Democrat have won? I think the answer is yes."

A former chairman of the Democratic National Committee, Steven Grossman, said he tells skeptics of Mrs. Clinton's chances that she is laying claim to the political center much the way her husband did in 1992 and again in 1996. "I've heard those concerns but think Senator Clinton has worked very hard and is working very hard, since the beginning of 2005 and in this campaign, to bind up those wounds," Mr. Grossman said, a Massachusetts business executive. "I think people will be surprised at how strongly she's respected in places that aren't expected," he said.

Mr. Gerstein said Mrs. Clinton's difficulties with women voters are a formidable, but surmountable challenge. "A lot of women just don't connect with her to the point where they're hostile to her," he said. "If women aren't with her as the first viable woman presidential candidate, I don't see how she beats what Kerry did on the electoral map."

Analysts said the concern within the party about Mrs. Clinton does not arise from a particular point in the ideological spectrum and is common even among those who support her. "I don't think it breaks down along ideological fault lines. It's more along personal and political fault lines," Mr. Gerstein said. The consultant compared it to the phenomenon in 2004 that led many primary voters who agreed with Howard Dean to vote for other candidates seen as more viable in the general election.

The lack of any ideological agreement among Mrs. Clinton's Democratic skeptics is a boon to her because it prevents support from coalescing around an alternative. Several Democratic strategists pointed to Mr. Warner, the former Virginia governor, as a plausible counterpoint to Mrs. Clinton. However, the senator's most vocal opposition at the moment is coming from the anti-war left. For instance, a left-leaning syndicated columnist, Molly Ivins, declared in a recent column that she could not support Mrs. Clinton in 2008. "Enough triangulation, calculation, and equivocation. Enough clever straddling, enough not offending anyone. This is not a Dick Morris election," Ms. Ivins wrote.

No consultant or strategist interviewed for this story could explain how Mr. Warner, who is generally viewed as more conservative than Mrs. Clinton, could capture the support of liberals passionately opposed to the war. "Those who are running would in many ways split the opposition to her," Mr. Panetta said.

Another wild card in assessing Mrs. Clinton's electability is a lack of certainty about which Republican she would face in November. "It's an awful lot about matchup," Mr. Lehane said.

Many Democrats and independent analysts believe the most difficult race for Mrs. Clinton would be one against Senator McCain of Arizona. The recent Hotline poll showed Mr. McCain with 47% of the vote and Mrs. Clinton with 32% in such a contest. However, Mr. Lehane said the showdown would be far more competitive because Mr. McCain would have to tack far to the right to win the Republican nomination. "For John McCain to get the nomination he has to be a very different John McCain than we know today," the consultant said.

Talented intellegent and she understands and exhibits grace, it sums up attractive in my book.

So...why is she single?

LaoPo

Dangerous ground.

I hope you are not implying that having a husband is the only way a woman can confirm she has the above qualities.

These ladies might disagree with you:

Yeah, you're right....the girl on the right "Zavadilova"...is she Russian? she looks pretty but VERY DANGEROUS!

LaoPo

I'll repeat what Spee stated: The Hildebeast is unelectable and does have many more foes than allies. Al Gore has more of a chance at President than her.

For all you nattering nabobs who support the beast - you just don't know how bad she is...

Careful, these girls 'on the right' will bite 'it' off after sex! :D

Anyone fancy Angela Merkel?

I'll repeat what Spee stated: The Hildebeast is unelectable and does have many more foes than allies. Al Gore has more of a chance at President than her.

For all you nattering nabobs who support the beast - you just don't know how bad she is...

If you say so...

Anyway, let's move on to Jane Fonda. Most porkable (we are not restricted to present age), a most accomplished actress and political activist, who has reached the age of maturity and would hold up American values of liberty and tolerance.

My assessment: With a bit of coaching, the main problem would be the many psycho 'nam vets who still bear a grudge against her (after more than 30 years).

HEY F.UCK A.SSES!!

I am not asking you is going to be president, nor do I care who you think is going to president, because I didn't ask! Nor do I want you political nut grabbers running off at the keybroad with posts filled with bullsh1t news articles.

The only personnal opinion I am looking for from you fanatics is WHO IS BETTER LOOKING?

It is that simple, nothing more complex than who would you rather date, just a little f.ucking fun. You freaks know what fun it, yes? This is not to degenerate into yet another pi.ssy boy mud throwing contest.

Are we clear, or am I just talking to brick walls here?

HEY F.UCK A.SSES!!

I am not asking you is going to be president, nor do I care who you think is going to president, because I didn't ask! Nor do I want you political nut grabbers running off at the keybroad with posts filled with bullsh1t news articles.

The only personnal opinion I am looking for from you fanatics is WHO IS BETTER LOOKING?

It is that simple, nothing more complex than who would you rather date, just a little f.ucking fun. You freaks know what fun it, yes? This is not to degenerate into yet another pi.ssy boy mud throwing contest.

Are we clear, or am I just talking to brick walls here?

While your Mum changes your diaper, just see if you can hear the sound of pots and kettles.

The only personnal opinion I am looking for from you fanatics is WHO IS BETTER LOOKING?

Well, that's Hilary, end of story.

I only tried to broaden the subject a bit, don't you think Jane is a stunner in Barbarella?

HEY F.UCK A.SSES!!

I am not asking you is going to be president, nor do I care who you think is going to president, because I didn't ask! Nor do I want you political nut grabbers running off at the keybroad with posts filled with bullsh1t news articles.

The only personnal opinion I am looking for from you fanatics is WHO IS BETTER LOOKING?

It is that simple, nothing more complex than who would you rather date, just a little f.ucking fun. You freaks know what fun it, yes? This is not to degenerate into yet another pi.ssy boy mud throwing contest.

Are we clear, or am I just talking to brick walls here?

While your Mum changes your diaper, just see if you can hear the sound of pots and kettles.

Don't start with me TM, you're the little b1tch you wanted the whole thread you started shut down because no one was doing what you wanted. Yeah, pots and kettles, who you calling black?

The only personnal opinion I am looking for from you fanatics is WHO IS BETTER LOOKING?

Well, that's Hilary, end of story.

I only tried to broaden the subject a bit, don't you think Jane is a stunner in Barbarella?

No, but I never really liked her or any of the other Fondas for that matter.

Don't start with me TM, you're the little b1tch you wanted the whole thread you started shut down because no one was doing what you wanted. Yeah, pots and kettles, who you calling black?

They say that ad hominem is a sign one has lost the argument.

In this case you are not only demonstrating that truth, but allowing us all an insight into your own charming character.

Keep it up.

The responses and comments to your threads will peter out as more realise that amusement comes from originality and wit, rather than noise, bluster and the swinging testicles..

Don't start with me TM, you're the little b1tch you wanted the whole thread you started shut down because no one was doing what you wanted. Yeah, pots and kettles, who you calling black?

What are you talking about?

They say that ad hominem is a sign one has lost the argument. There is no argument to lose.

In this case you are not only demonstrating that truth,What truth,"there is no argument to lose"? but allowing us all an insight into your own charming character. I am a Yank, I am not supposed to be charming.

Keep it up. Thank you I will.

The responses and comments to your threads will peter out as more realise that amusement comes from originality and wit, rather than noise, bluster and the swinging testicles..

And I suppose you have any of these?

Stop thinking your a$$ is a rose, TM, then the rest of us might come into focus. BTW, who did you vote for?

I am a Yank

But so also is Boon Mee. And he is very well mannered.

Quite witty too.

Actually he's rather intelligent don't you think?

In fact the more I think about it, the more I realise that despite, often disagreeing with BM's political analysis, his postings are more entertaining and stimulating to discussion than most threads created by others in vain attempts to direct attention away from what little grey matter they may or may not possess.

I am a Yank

But so also is Boon Mee. And he is very well mannered.

Quite witty too.

Actually he's rather intelligent don't you think?

I wouldn't know he is always posting other people words.

In fact the more I think about it, the more I realise that despite, often disagreeing with BM's political analysis, his postings are more entertaining and stimulating to discussion than most threads created by others in vain attempts to direct attention away from what little grey matter they may or may not possess.

What do you want TM? You want me to say I am sorry? You are the one who started this TM, so what do you want? You are the one who made it personal, so what do you want? Because this is as far as this sh1t can go on-line, okay? So, what kind of fight are you trying to pick?

What do you want TM? You want me to say I am sorry? You are the one who started this TM, so what do you want? You are the one who made it personal, so what do you want? Because this is as far as this sh1t can go on-line, okay?

What is it you colonials say, "You anit seen nothing, yet"

So, what kind of fight are you trying to pick?

How about, pistols at dawn.

No - wait - what about a pissing contest.

I bet you just know you can piss further than me, don't you?

What do you want TM? You want me to say I am sorry? You are the one who started this TM, so what do you want? You are the one who made it personal, so what do you want? Because this is as far as this sh1t can go on-line, okay?

What is it you colonials say, "You anit seen nothing, yet" You're right and I am still waiting, Imperial Swine.

So, what kind of fight are you trying to pick?

How about, pistols at dawn.

No - wait - what about a pissing contest.

I bet you just know you can piss further than me, don't you?

OMG, you are such a little baby! I call you on your bullsh1t and you just keep going with the insults. So, trying to belittle people on-line is the way you make you feel better about yourself? You go on-line warrior! You are such a fcking joke, and to think I actaully liked you once. Well, shows even us Yanks can be wrong once in awhile. Cherry-oh and pip-pip, what?

Michelle Malkin.

Michelle Malkin.

Michelle Malkin.

Who would you pick as the best looking Political Dominatrix?

A write-in vote!

Let be clear here. I'm not looking for any Domimatrix action. I'm looking to woo her.

Oh Condoleeza, when I watch you walk across a crowded room

it is like the moon amongst stars.

Can I call you Condi?

...

OMG, you are such a little baby! I call you on your bullsh1t and you just keep going with the insults. So, trying to belittle people on-line is the way you make you feel better about yourself? You go on-line warrior! You are such a fcking joke, and to think I actaully liked you once. Well, shows even us Yanks can be wrong once in awhile. Cherry-oh and pip-pip, what?

Dammn. One less Christmas card to buy (I bet swearing makes you feel like a real man - some say, it actually makes old Percy grow - is that true?).

Michelle Malkin.

She's a 500 peso hooker from Olongapo.

...

OMG, you are such a little baby! I call you on your bullsh1t and you just keep going with the insults. So, trying to belittle people on-line is the way you make you feel better about yourself? You go on-line warrior! You are such a fcking joke, and to think I actaully liked you once. Well, shows even us Yanks can be wrong once in awhile. Cherry-oh and pip-pip, what?

Dammn. One less Christmas card to buy (I bet swearing makes you feel like a real man - some say, it actually makes old Percy grow - is that true?).

Taking criticism from a catholic jew is like being told I am sane by a schizophrenic.

Michelle Malkin.

She's a 500 peso hooker from Olongapo.

I have 1 million pesos to spend for loooong-time!

Let be clear here. I'm not looking for any Domimatrix action. I'm looking to woo her.

Oh Condoleeza, when I watch you walk across a crowded room

it is like the moon amongst stars.

Can I call you Condi?

You're a sick man..

Let be clear here. I'm not looking for any Domimatrix action. I'm looking to woo her.

Oh Condoleeza, when I watch you walk across a crowded room

it is like the moon amongst stars.

Can I call you Condi?

You're a sick man..

On a romantic level, I am forced to agree.

Still waiting for that pic of M.M.

Still waiting for that pic of M.M.

http://images.google.co.th/images?q=michel...b=ii&oi=imagest

Let be clear here. I'm not looking for any Domimatrix action. I'm looking to woo her.

Oh Condoleeza, when I watch you walk across a crowded room

it is like the moon amongst stars.

Can I call you Condi?

You're a sick man..

On a romantic level, I am forced to agree.

*chuckle* you guys like that huh? *chuckle*

This is her entertaining a client before he paid her bar fine at the Jolo Club of Crazed Lunatic Right Wing Female Extremists Who Have Forgotten Their Origins Bar and Grill, located at the end of Magsaysay Road in Olongapo City, Philippines.