Budget Exhaust For Er6N 2012.

[classic-chassis]

Hi to you all.

As the title says.

I'm a family man so i can't afford to splash loads of cash on a new exhaust. If i could i'd buy a zard.

I will probably spend about 10 to 15k. that means my options are limited. Up to now i have the choice of:

praram 2 copy. I've heard both good and bad about this company and i know its not the real thing, but how different can it be? I think their akropovich (sp) "replica" looks the part. They told me almost the same regarding sound and power increase. I've been reading on kawasaki forums and tbh some of the original akro stuff is not of the highest quality, especially carbon. If i did go down this route it would be metal not carbon. Feed back would be great.

Tyga. I know very little about this company or their systems. Their website only offers 2009-2011er6n exhausts. Can anyone expand on that? I believe the company is British owned so i'd expect the quality to be high. Any feed back is welcome.

Tsukigi. I've heard good things about this company's products, however i can still only find 2009-2011 systems. Again, any feedback is welcome.

Are there any other companies i can look at?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Richard-BKK]

Tsukigi Racing has a nice (and not so expensive) exhaust system for the Kawasaki ER6N. You will not have much power gain with the Tsukigi Racing slip-on exhaust muffler as other more international brands claim, but you get a good amount of weight reduction... and the sound is a bit deeper/louder while still staying within the Thai legal limit.

Here a video of the Tsukigi full exhaust system....

Edited February 19, 2013 by Richard-BKK

[classic-chassis]

Thanks. Any idea of the price? I've seen the 2009-11 for about 8 or 9 k.

[Hili]

you can try k-speed they have various types (carbon as well) for the er 6 to 7k

[Ticketmaster]

I have a Scorpion. Instead of glass pack, which will only last about three years, It is packed with spun stainless steel and is supposed to last a lifetime. What is cheaper up front, can be much more expensive in the long run -- especially if you intend to keep the bike a long time. The Scorpion has a great sound. It cost me $359 delivered to the US, and a friend shipped it over by POST in a plain box (no duty).

Scorpion Stainless Oval, part no. EKA74SEO, $359.00 (ship & tax free):

http://www.pipecity.com/Products/ProductDetails.cfm/Search/EKA74SEO/ProductID/478992

[classic-chassis]

Thanks for your replies.

Does anyone have feedback on tyga or praram 2 "replicas"?

[mania]

You know you might want to check out Devil too

They make a full system for the N250 for 16k

So they probably do a slip on for the Er6N

Edited February 20, 2013 by mania

[karlos]

The systems or slip-ons from the previous generation will work on the 2012/2013 models.

If you buy just a slip-on you'll require as set of down pipes / headers from a 2011 Versys (they have the link pipe connecting both down pipes)

A set of genuine down pipes will cost 4000Baht and a brand new Arrow slip-on will set you back around 15,000baht

Keep an eye open for seconds hand slip-ons, if you can find one the whole shabang shouldn't cost much more than 15,000baht

New: All in 19,000baht

Second hand: 15,000baht or under

Edited February 20, 2013 by karlos

[ginger761]

I understand lack of budget but don't want the purring cat exhaust. I got mine from k speed for 8900฿ full system. It's not the zard I wanted but 27000฿ is steep. Sounds and looks good I think. It's a wr's exhaust with a yoshi metal plate.

[ginger761]

here is the 8900baht exhaust

[GooEng]

here is the 8900baht exhaust

Looks neat, and approve of the cheeky yoshi sticker.

What sort of increase in power (if any) do they offer?

[loserlazer]

Your bike does not need the fake yoshi plate. Pipe alone looks good.

[mania]

I understand lack of budget but don't want the purring cat exhaust. I got mine from k speed for 8900฿ full system. It's not the zard I wanted but 27000฿ is steep. Sounds and looks good I think. It's a wr's exhaust with a yoshi metal plate.

8900 is a very nice price for a full system

Congrats

[ginger761]

here is the 8900baht exhaust

IMG_5993.JPG

IMG_5991.JPG

Looks neat, and approve of the cheeky yoshi sticker.

What sort of increase in power (if any) do they offer?

Thanks guys, seems to be a slight increase in power, with the baffle out its certainly loud. I agree it didn't need the yoshi but me and my mate fitted it and he had it spare so we though sod it:) like I say wanted a zard, all I've heard are good things.

It does however pop a lot, not technically a backfire, one of my mates recons a oxygen eliminator will stop it running lean and calm the popping, any knowledge or thoughts... Always appreciated

[karlos]

here is the 8900baht exhaust

IMG_5993.JPG

IMG_5991.JPG

Looks neat, and approve of the cheeky yoshi sticker.

What sort of increase in power (if any) do they offer?

Thanks guys, seems to be a slight increase in power, with the baffle out its certainly loud. I agree it didn't need the yoshi but me and my mate fitted it and he had it spare so we though sod it:) like I say wanted a zard, all I've heard are good things.

It does however pop a lot, not technically a backfire, one of my mates recons a oxygen eliminator will stop it running lean and calm the popping, any knowledge or thoughts... Always appreciated

It's not running lean.

The backfiring you are getting can be cured somewhat by plugging the PAIR

Valve, or having the bike properly tuned with the use of a Power Comander 5.

However i haven't heard of a single engine failing which has had basic engine

mods (air filter and exhaust) pretty much and indestructible engine and unless

someone's racing their 650 it's not worth the money IMO

Edited February 25, 2013 by karlos

[dogpoo]

Hi to you all.

As the title says.

I'm a family man so i can't afford to splash loads of cash on a new exhaust. If i could i'd buy a zard.

I will probably spend about 10 to 15k. that means my options are limited. Up to now i have the choice of:

praram 2 copy. I've heard both good and bad about this company and i know its not the real thing, but how different can it be? I think their akropovich (sp) "replica" looks the part. They told me almost the same regarding sound and power increase. I've been reading on kawasaki forums and tbh some of the original akro stuff is not of the highest quality, especially carbon. If i did go down this route it would be metal not carbon. Feed back would be great.

Tyga. I know very little about this company or their systems. Their website only offers 2009-2011er6n exhausts. Can anyone expand on that? I believe the company is British owned so i'd expect the quality to be high. Any feed back is welcome.

Tsukigi. I've heard good things about this company's products, however i can still only find 2009-2011 systems. Again, any feedback is welcome.

Are there any other companies i can look at?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Be considerate and don't fit a very loud exhaust, we have a Thai guy that lives close, he has a very loud exhaust fitted and it pisses everyone off!!

[mania]

Be considerate and don't fit a very loud exhaust, we have a Thai guy that lives close, he has a very loud exhaust fitted and it pisses everyone off!!

I have personally never liked loud street exhausts

I guess it is twofold

1- as you say it can be irritating

2- Due to where I came from I like to go faster incognito when possible:)

Also no matter what exhaust if you have a bike that likes the upper rpm ranges

even what starts out as a mild mannered exhaust sounds quite good at speed.

Lastly if there is no performance benefits other than noise I really think that

$$$ could go somewhere better on the bike or personal safety gear

[ginger761]

here is the 8900baht exhaustIMG_5993.JPGIMG_5991.JPG

Looks neat, and approve of the cheeky yoshi sticker.

What sort of increase in power (if any) do they offer?

Thanks guys, seems to be a slight increase in power, with the baffle out its certainly loud. I agree it didn't need the yoshi but me and my mate fitted it and he had it spare so we though sod it:) like I say wanted a zard, all I've heard are good things.

It does however pop a lot, not technically a backfire, one of my mates recons a oxygen eliminator will stop it running lean and calm the popping, any knowledge or thoughts... Always appreciated

It's not running lean.

The backfiring you are getting can be cured somewhat by plugging the PAIR

Valve, or having the bike properly tuned with the use of a Power Comander 5.

However i haven't heard of a single engine failing which has had basic engine

mods (air filter and exhaust) pretty much and indestructible engine and unless

someone's racing their 650 it's not worth the money IMO

Thank you for your advice Karlos, good to know the engine isn't being damaged..

On the subject of loud exhaust.... Well I like them, yes I like a good looking exhaust however the main benefit for me is that, people are aware of you.

Don't know what the drivers are like where you live but in Phuket we are constantly dealing with idiot tourists who shouldn't be on bikes, they hear you and start looking, also the total lack of real training and driver awareness of most Thai bike andcar drivers means they tend to drive with their ears NOT their eyes.. Since fitting my exhaust I've noticed a considerable decrease in upturns and pull outs on me..... Like the old campaign in England said...." LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES" I really believe and in my experience is true.

Saying this I do push my bike out of my soi in a morning so I don't annoy the neighbours.

[dogpoo]

here is the 8900baht exhaustIMG_5993.JPGIMG_5991.JPG

Looks neat, and approve of the cheeky yoshi sticker.

What sort of increase in power (if any) do they offer?

Thanks guys, seems to be a slight increase in power, with the baffle out its certainly loud. I agree it didn't need the yoshi but me and my mate fitted it and he had it spare so we though sod it:) like I say wanted a zard, all I've heard are good things.

It does however pop a lot, not technically a backfire, one of my mates recons a oxygen eliminator will stop it running lean and calm the popping, any knowledge or thoughts... Always appreciated

It's not running lean.

The backfiring you are getting can be cured somewhat by plugging the PAIR

Valve, or having the bike properly tuned with the use of a Power Comander 5.

However i haven't heard of a single engine failing which has had basic engine

mods (air filter and exhaust) pretty much and indestructible engine and unless

someone's racing their 650 it's not worth the money IMO

Thank you for your advice Karlos, good to know the engine isn't being damaged..

On the subject of loud exhaust.... Well I like them, yes I like a good looking exhaust however the main benefit for me is that, people are aware of you.

Don't know what the drivers are like where you live but in Phuket we are constantly dealing with idiot tourists who shouldn't be on bikes, they hear you and start looking, also the total lack of real training and driver awareness of most Thai bike andcar drivers means they tend to drive with their ears NOT their eyes.. Since fitting my exhaust I've noticed a considerable decrease in upturns and pull outs on me..... Like the old campaign in England said...." LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES" I really believe and in my experience is true.

Saying this I do push my bike out of my soi in a morning so I don't annoy the neighbours.

Lol you don't annoy your neighbors but you don't mind annoying everyone else, how considerate!! Yet again people using the old excuse, it's safer blah blah blah! Driving slower with 100 per cent concentration is far safer than a very loud annoying exhaust!!

[ginger761]

here is the 8900baht exhaustIMG_5993.JPGIMG_5991.JPG

Looks neat, and approve of the cheeky yoshi sticker.

What sort of increase in power (if any) do they offer?

Thanks guys, seems to be a slight increase in power, with the baffle out its certainly loud. I agree it didn't need the yoshi but me and my mate fitted it and he had it spare so we though sod it:) like I say wanted a zard, all I've heard are good things.

It does however pop a lot, not technically a backfire, one of my mates recons a oxygen eliminator will stop it running lean and calm the popping, any knowledge or thoughts... Always appreciated

It's not running lean.

The backfiring you are getting can be cured somewhat by plugging the PAIR

Valve, or having the bike properly tuned with the use of a Power Comander 5.

However i haven't heard of a single engine failing which has had basic engine

mods (air filter and exhaust) pretty much and indestructible engine and unless

someone's racing their 650 it's not worth the money IMO

Thank you for your advice Karlos, good to know the engine isn't being damaged..

On the subject of loud exhaust.... Well I like them, yes I like a good looking exhaust however the main benefit for me is that, people are aware of you.

Don't know what the drivers are like where you live but in Phuket we are constantly dealing with idiot tourists who shouldn't be on bikes, they hear you and start looking, also the total lack of real training and driver awareness of most Thai bike andcar drivers means they tend to drive with their ears NOT their eyes.. Since fitting my exhaust I've noticed a considerable decrease in upturns and pull outs on me..... Like the old campaign in England said...." LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES" I really believe and in my experience is true.

Saying this I do push my bike out of my soi in a morning so I don't annoy the neighbours.

Lol you don't annoy your neighbors but you don't mind annoying everyone else, how considerate!! Yet again people using the old excuse, it's safer blah blah blah! Driving slower with 100 per cent concentration is far safer than a very loud annoying exhaust!!

Lol are you the man in the high vis vest riding round Phuket, obviously not much experience, it is safer and sounds fantastic. If annoying them stops them pulling out and causing a accident then annoy I will. What are you 100 year old librarian

[dogpoo]

here is the 8900baht exhaustIMG_5993.JPGIMG_5991.JPG

Looks neat, and approve of the cheeky yoshi sticker.

What sort of increase in power (if any) do they offer?

Thanks guys, seems to be a slight increase in power, with the baffle out its certainly loud. I agree it didn't need the yoshi but me and my mate fitted it and he had it spare so we though sod it:) like I say wanted a zard, all I've heard are good things.

It does however pop a lot, not technically a backfire, one of my mates recons a oxygen eliminator will stop it running lean and calm the popping, any knowledge or thoughts... Always appreciated

It's not running lean.

The backfiring you are getting can be cured somewhat by plugging the PAIR

Valve, or having the bike properly tuned with the use of a Power Comander 5.

However i haven't heard of a single engine failing which has had basic engine

mods (air filter and exhaust) pretty much and indestructible engine and unless

someone's racing their 650 it's not worth the money IMO

Thank you for your advice Karlos, good to know the engine isn't being damaged..

On the subject of loud exhaust.... Well I like them, yes I like a good looking exhaust however the main benefit for me is that, people are aware of you.

Don't know what the drivers are like where you live but in Phuket we are constantly dealing with idiot tourists who shouldn't be on bikes, they hear you and start looking, also the total lack of real training and driver awareness of most Thai bike andcar drivers means they tend to drive with their ears NOT their eyes.. Since fitting my exhaust I've noticed a considerable decrease in upturns and pull outs on me..... Like the old campaign in England said...." LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES" I really believe and in my experience is true.

Saying this I do push my bike out of my soi in a morning so I don't annoy the neighbours.

Lol you don't annoy your neighbors but you don't mind annoying everyone else, how considerate!! Yet again people using the old excuse, it's safer blah blah blah! Driving slower with 100 per cent concentration is far safer than a very loud annoying exhaust!!

Lol are you the man in the high vis vest riding round Phuket, obviously not much experience, it is safer and sounds fantastic. If annoying them stops them pulling out and causing a accident then annoy I will. What are you 100 year old librarian[/quote

Lol do you not think that your very loud exhaust could be responsible for distracting people to the point of losing there concentration and thereby causing an accident? I have many many years of experience driving many types of vehicles, it's my opinion that Loud exhausts do nothing other than piss people off, excuse the French!! It sounds fantastic on a race circuit, roads are not race circuits although many people think they are!!

[ginger761]

Let's agree to disagree. I love bikes and that is why I came on this forum and to help out someone who didn't have the cash for an expensive exhaust. have a good day. Ps most people on these roads are distracted by phones, dogs cats and their friend on the bike next to them so no I don't agree.

[dogpoo]

It's a discussion so you will always have disagreements which is fine, take care out there!

[GooEng]

here is the 8900baht exhaustIMG_5993.JPGIMG_5991.JPG

Looks neat, and approve of the cheeky yoshi sticker.

What sort of increase in power (if any) do they offer?

Thanks guys, seems to be a slight increase in power, with the baffle out its certainly loud. I agree it didn't need the yoshi but me and my mate fitted it and he had it spare so we though sod it:) like I say wanted a zard, all I've heard are good things.

It does however pop a lot, not technically a backfire, one of my mates recons a oxygen eliminator will stop it running lean and calm the popping, any knowledge or thoughts... Always appreciated

It's not running lean.

The backfiring you are getting can be cured somewhat by plugging the PAIR

Valve, or having the bike properly tuned with the use of a Power Comander 5.

However i haven't heard of a single engine failing which has had basic engine

mods (air filter and exhaust) pretty much and indestructible engine and unless

someone's racing their 650 it's not worth the money IMO

Interesting and apparently knowledgable post Karlos.

I'm in the market for a new bike and following the disappointing initial response in TV and other press to the Honda CB500 series and what looks to be the inevitable high price of the z800, I am looking very closely at the Ninja 650.

I do have the budget and the inclination to kit it out a bit, and an after market pipe + supporting mods seem the obvious first step.

You mention power commander 5 & air filter change - can I ask a few questions about this?

I am assuming when you say "tuned with the use of a power commander" you mean by fitting one?

- brand and cost of power commander (Norton?) and ease of proper installation and set-up?

- where to source said item and more importantly have it installed set-up? (BKK area)?

- brand of air filter (K&N?) and where to source/fit/set-up?

- approximate increase in power and range (bottom/mid/top?)

I'm not inclined to do any of the work myself and would ideally seek a reliable place where I can take the bike and have all the kit (pipe/filter/commander) fitted and set up.

Any thoughts/ideas/recommendations gratefully received, cheers!

Edited February 26, 2013 by GooEng

[Neilly]

Edited February 26, 2013 by Neilly

[karlos]

Christ, Russians pedestrians are just as bad as their drivers

[karlos]

here is the 8900baht exhaustIMG_5993.JPGIMG_5991.JPG

Looks neat, and approve of the cheeky yoshi sticker.

What sort of increase in power (if any) do they offer?

Thanks guys, seems to be a slight increase in power, with the baffle out its certainly loud. I agree it didn't need the yoshi but me and my mate fitted it and he had it spare so we though sod it:) like I say wanted a zard, all I've heard are good things.

It does however pop a lot, not technically a backfire, one of my mates recons a oxygen eliminator will stop it running lean and calm the popping, any knowledge or thoughts... Always appreciated

It's not running lean.

The backfiring you are getting can be cured somewhat by plugging the PAIR

Valve, or having the bike properly tuned with the use of a Power Comander 5.

However i haven't heard of a single engine failing which has had basic engine

mods (air filter and exhaust) pretty much and indestructible engine and unless

someone's racing their 650 it's not worth the money IMO

Interesting and apparently knowledgable post Karlos.

I'm in the market for a new bike and following the disappointing initial response in TV and other press to the Honda CB500 series and what looks to be the inevitable high price of the z800, I am looking very closely at the Ninja 650.

I do have the budget and the inclination to kit it out a bit, and an after market pipe + supporting mods seem the obvious first step.

You mention power commander 5 & air filter change - can I ask a few questions about this?

I am assuming when you say "tuned with the use of a power commander" you mean by fitting one?

- brand and cost of power commander (Norton?) and ease of proper installation and set-up?

- where to source said item and more importantly have it installed set-up? (BKK area)?

- brand of air filter (K&N?) and where to source/fit/set-up?

- approximate increase in power and range (bottom/mid/top?)

I'm not inclined to do any of the work myself and would ideally seek a reliable place where I can take the bike and have all the kit (pipe/filter/commander) fitted and set up.

Any thoughts/ideas/recommendations gratefully received, cheers!

Regarding the price of the Z800, who knows. A lot of my Thai

friends on other forums reckon it’ll be 400,000 – 420,000…… If only, I would

trade my 650 in for one in a flash

Reliable places to modifiy a big bike, there aren’t too many I can think of

other than AP Racing and coincidently they also offer a huge range of

aftermarket parts for the 650 range, perhaps the best shop in Thailand for the

650s (located in Bangkok, Kasesart somewhere) Happy to take you there if you get

a 650.

Most people use the Dynojet Power Commander or the Two Brother equivalent. When

I mentioned tuning I was referring to having the whole shebang set-up on a

dyno. However I’m not sure of a place that can net you the best power and

torque curve or most importantly A/F ratio. Dirt Bike (thannon On-Nut) has a

dyno but I haven’t a clue if they are any good at mapping..

Airfilters, K&N or DNA would be the most popular choices and easiest to

find in Thailand, word of warning I would strongly recommend a dyno set up if

the bike was to run with a full exhaust system and and airfilter, just my

opinion, but I’m sure the A/F ratio would run lean at certain rpms with such

ability to breath.

Power gains wouldn’t justify the cost of all this, but reassurance that the

bike is running fine sure is. Expect approx 8-10bhp (peak) and around 5-6bhp across

the mid range. Torque shouldn’t go up by much with such mods, unless you have

it tuned for more low down grunt.

Karl

[loserlazer]

here is the 8900baht exhaustIMG_5993.JPGIMG_5991.JPG

Looks neat, and approve of the cheeky yoshi sticker.

What sort of increase in power (if any) do they offer?

Thanks guys, seems to be a slight increase in power, with the baffle out its certainly loud. I agree it didn't need the yoshi but me and my mate fitted it and he had it spare so we though sod it:) like I say wanted a zard, all I've heard are good things.

It does however pop a lot, not technically a backfire, one of my mates recons a oxygen eliminator will stop it running lean and calm the popping, any knowledge or thoughts... Always appreciated

It's not running lean.

The backfiring you are getting can be cured somewhat by plugging the PAIR

Valve, or having the bike properly tuned with the use of a Power Comander 5.

However i haven't heard of a single engine failing which has had basic engine

mods (air filter and exhaust) pretty much and indestructible engine and unless

someone's racing their 650 it's not worth the money IMO

Interesting and apparently knowledgable post Karlos.

I'm in the market for a new bike and following the disappointing initial response in TV and other press to the Honda CB500 series and what looks to be the inevitable high price of the z800, I am looking very closely at the Ninja 650.

I do have the budget and the inclination to kit it out a bit, and an after market pipe + supporting mods seem the obvious first step.

You mention power commander 5 & air filter change - can I ask a few questions about this?

I am assuming when you say "tuned with the use of a power commander" you mean by fitting one?

- brand and cost of power commander (Norton?) and ease of proper installation and set-up?

- where to source said item and more importantly have it installed set-up? (BKK area)?

- brand of air filter (K&N?) and where to source/fit/set-up?

- approximate increase in power and range (bottom/mid/top?)

I'm not inclined to do any of the work myself and would ideally seek a reliable place where I can take the bike and have all the kit (pipe/filter/commander) fitted and set up.

Any thoughts/ideas/recommendations gratefully received, cheers!

Dissapointing initial response in TV?

Where did you see it? Maybe the owners of kawa never ride one before?

Do not live ina dream world man!

[classic-chassis]

Interesting posts.

The k-speed system looks the part, but then so do the pm2 "replicas".

I'm leaning towards the tsukigi at the moment. Not real bothered about massive power increase, and Brian (a friend) at sumet told me they have a stamp on them which prove they are within the legal sound limit.

I'm a bkk rider and the bib like to stop you for it.

[GooEng]

here is the 8900baht exhaustIMG_5993.JPGIMG_5991.JPG

Looks neat, and approve of the cheeky yoshi sticker.

What sort of increase in power (if any) do they offer?

Thanks guys, seems to be a slight increase in power, with the baffle out its certainly loud. I agree it didn't need the yoshi but me and my mate fitted it and he had it spare so we though sod it:) like I say wanted a zard, all I've heard are good things.

It does however pop a lot, not technically a backfire, one of my mates recons a oxygen eliminator will stop it running lean and calm the popping, any knowledge or thoughts... Always appreciated

It's not running lean.

The backfiring you are getting can be cured somewhat by plugging the PAIR

Valve, or having the bike properly tuned with the use of a Power Comander 5.

However i haven't heard of a single engine failing which has had basic engine

mods (air filter and exhaust) pretty much and indestructible engine and unless

someone's racing their 650 it's not worth the money IMO

Interesting and apparently knowledgable post Karlos.

I'm in the market for a new bike and following the disappointing initial response in TV and other press to the Honda CB500 series and what looks to be the inevitable high price of the z800, I am looking very closely at the Ninja 650.

I do have the budget and the inclination to kit it out a bit, and an after market pipe + supporting mods seem the obvious first step.

You mention power commander 5 & air filter change - can I ask a few questions about this?

I am assuming when you say "tuned with the use of a power commander" you mean by fitting one?

- brand and cost of power commander (Norton?) and ease of proper installation and set-up?

- where to source said item and more importantly have it installed set-up? (BKK area)?

- brand of air filter (K&N?) and where to source/fit/set-up?

- approximate increase in power and range (bottom/mid/top?)

I'm not inclined to do any of the work myself and would ideally seek a reliable place where I can take the bike and have all the kit (pipe/filter/commander) fitted and set up.

Any thoughts/ideas/recommendations gratefully received, cheers!

Dissapointing initial response in TV?

Where did you see it? Maybe the owners of kawa never ride one before?

Do not live ina dream world man!

Not a dream world - I'm a Honda enthusiast and I wanted to be impressed and seduced by the new Hondas.

My favourite previous bikes were all hondas : a lovely NSR150 (older twin round headlights model), an equally beloved CBR400RR (sorely missed) and waaaay back in the day a fondly remembered NovaRS.

Also bought an AirBlade a couple of years back to scoot about on, just cos its a Honda.

So, looking at returning to larger bike ownership after a spell I had high hopes for the CBR500, but from what I've read here and elsewhere the response seems to be sort of lukewarm - not negative, its a honda after all, but not exactly positive in the way I'd expected.

In contrast, the 650 Ninja owners I see on here and those I know personally seem very enthusiastic about their bikes.

I'm aware that ownership of the Hondas is limited at this time and so time may tell and my impressions may change, but at the moment I'm leaning towards the Kawasaki.