Where Do I Go To Register A Will In Cm

[HughJass]

reading a topic on the general forum about having a will in thailand I decided to download the two templates provided by one of the posters.one in thai language the other in english

these provide a simple declaration of what I would like to happen to any assets I might have in Thailand if I expire while I am living here

I have some money in a thai bank account,a couple of bikes and the contents of my rented condo but would like my g/f to benefit instead of the Thai Govt should the unthinkable happen

I do not wish to engage a lawyer because of the cost and the fact that I wouldnt trust any of them

has anyone tried to register a simple self penned will in CM?

where would I go to get these documents formalised?

[simple1]

The Amphur for your location

[Mekong Bob]

Is this Thai version of the go-by a standard form used in district offices, or might there be an official version as well?

Has the go-by version been filed successfully in a district office in Chiang Mai Province?

Has any TV Forum member enlisted a local Thai lawyer to draw up a Last Will & Testament (in Thai)? How much was his/her fee? Can you recommend a local law office?

Nice idea!

[Mekong Bob]

The Amphur for your location

Hmmm. I just spoke with a Thai law office a few minutes ago. The attorney says that wills should be held by one's personal attorney and a close family member, not one's local District Office. Has anyone actually filed a copy with District Officer?

[elektrified]

The forms you posted are overly-simplified and would never stand up in court if that was to happen. There are a number of legal clauses that need to be included in a Will in any country of the world. The Amphur would probably reject those - maybe, I'm not sure. To be honest, it's a useless document as it stands.

[amexpat]

5000 baht.

Sumalee Jennapa Tel: 053-410174. She speaks good English. 0818824311

Recommended by myself and others in the past. Search for "will" in thread titles, CM forum.

[circusman]

The forms you posted are overly-simplified and would never stand up in court if that was to happen. There are a number of legal clauses that need to be included in a Will in any country of the world. The Amphur would probably reject those - maybe, I'm not sure. To be honest, it's a useless document as it stands.

You might be an attorney? It is they (attorneys) who make all legal documents so complicated. I suspect partly to justify huge fees.

I'm not so sure that the two documents are useless. My self will in the USA is fine according to my lawyer friend.

[Greenside]

5000 is a pretty standard fee and, as in most countries, there is no requirement to register a will. You need a friend or a professional to hold a copy and of course keep one with your personal papers. If you don't have a suitable person to act as an executor then you may have to entrust the job to a lawyer but not only will that involve issues of trust but the costs are always horrible.

[simple1]

The Amphur for your location

Hmmm. I just spoke with a Thai law office a few minutes ago. The attorney says that wills should be held by one's personal attorney and a close family member, not one's local District Office. Has anyone actually filed a copy with District Officer?

My Will and Thai wifes' for Thai based assets are registered at the Amphur who keep the originals and provide a receipt that has to be presented with ID to access the Wills if need to be updated or access after a death. My wife is executor on my Will & vice versa. In the case of us dying simultaneously e.g. car crash, son is the executor. Do not wish to sound overly negative, but would never trust a Thai lawyer to be executor.

Note our Wills are uncomplicated and I had the English language Wills checked & translated by a Thai lawyer, then has his translation cross checked by stepson for accuracy & to ensure no "extra clauses" were inserted in the Thai version.

Edited February 22, 2013 by simple1

[Mekong Bob]

I can understand your reluctance to involve lawyers (Thai or Farang) in the execution of your Will. Also, I think it's good to file a copy with your Disttrict Office for safekeeping. BTW, which District Office?

The attorney fee to change (or establish) an executor of a Will in Thailand is about 2,000 baht.

According to a previous post, a Thai Will is about 5,000 baht, and I assume a certified English translation is included in that fee.

Many of us expats (including myself) have a Thai wife and live in a house that is owned by the wife. This situation necessitates a Thai Will for the wife, and I guess that means another 5,000 baht fee. None of this bothers me because it's something that must be done, and the cost is minimal.

I want a Thai Will that will stand in a Thai court . . . when that day comes. Only a Thai lawyer (or a Thai judge) can make that determination for me as my Thai Will is drawn up in a Thai law office. I don't feel comfortable with a very good Thai translation of a Will which was drawn up in the USA because I would first need assurances that this Will would be recognized in a Thai court of law.

Comments, please.

The Amphur for your location

Hmmm. I just spoke with a Thai law office a few minutes ago. The attorney says that wills should be held by one's personal attorney and a close family member, not one's local District Office. Has anyone actually filed a copy with District Officer?

My Will and Thai wifes' for Thai based assets are registered at the Amphur who keep the originals and provide a receipt that has to be presented with ID to access the Wills if need to be updated or access after a death. My wife is executor on my Will & vice versa. In the case of us dying simultaneously e.g. car crash, son is the executor. Do not wish to sound overly negative, but would never trust a Thai lawyer to be executor.

Note our Wills are uncomplicated and I had the English language Wills checked & translated by a Thai lawyer, then has his translation cross checked by stepson for accuracy & to ensure no "extra clauses" were inserted in the Thai version.

[NancyL]

Hubby and I obtained our Thai Wills at the Amphur office -- it's across from the big police station in the Old City for Amphur Muang. They had a form in their computer and helped us "fill in the blanks". Also, we needed Residency Certificates from Immigration and a medical statement that we were "of sound mind". Not very complicated. I wrote about it here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/393859-where-theres-a-will-theres-a-way/

As you can tell, this is a controversal subject. When someone says, "that Will won't stand up in court" -- you have to ask "what if it's not challenged?" If it's likely that the Will won't be challenged, then I don't think you need to spend vast sums from a fancy Will from a lawyer.

Unfortunately, I think all the dogmatic statements about what will and won't "work" here means people just doing nothing, for fear of doing the wrong thing.

Edited February 22, 2013 by NancyL

[onthedarkside]

I have used that 'pro-forma' document as shown above and registered with our local mayor (amphur). Cost a small amount of baht for the official stamp endorsement. Seems good enough for me.

[elektrified]

Once again, that Will is missing some pretty basic things like "rest and residue", jurisdiction, successor Executor, reference to codicils, and a number of other important clauses.

[JimGant]

As you can tell, this is a controversial subject. When someone says,

"that Will won't stand up in court" -- you have to ask "what if it's not

challenged?" If it's likely that the Will won't be challenged, then I

don't think you need to spend vast sums from a fancy Will from a

lawyer.

Ah, this seems to be the most controversial part of all the discussions we've had on this forum re Wills -- what happens (or needs to happen) when the testator dies? Does the Will have to be formally probated with the court? Most lawyers would have you think so -- but the truth, at least for uncontested Wills, would seem to be otherwise. (Most of this discussion is covered in the two threads referenced at the bottom.)

And, it would seem that a Will filed at the Amphur -- either accomplished there via their template -- or handed to them, having been accomplished elsewhere (the so-called 'secret' Will -- see Sec 1660 of the Thai CC Code -- http://www.samuiforsale.com/law-texts/thailand-civil-code-part-3.html#1645) would be self-probating, if there are no challenges.

And why not? The Will certainly has more legitimacy than one stored in a lawyer's office (or at home), since it was directly presented to the Amphur by the living testator, and then sealed and stored under government auspices. Once released to the executor -- with all the official Amphur stamps applied -- what's left to be probated?

But, as this seems so straightforward, it can't possibly be so simple in Thailand.....

The wife's Will is both all-inclusive and specific ("All my assets, including Chanotes numbered x,y,z" "All my bank accounts, including future bank accounts, and accounts numbered 1,2,3." [Chanote specifics won't change in the future, so no need to re-file a new Will in the Amphur. Bank accounts might have some future additions -- but I'll not be re-filing with the Amphur, hoping the "future" clause suffices.]

I've seen where it's suggested just a general statement would be ok. However, I would be afraid walking into the Land Office with a Will stating "all my land" might not be specific enough -- and maybe a situation where, even tho' the Will is covered with Amphur stamps verifying its authenticity, the Land Office would like something furthermore from the court. (And, maybe even with specific Chanote numbers, they still might like something from the court, especially since I'll be dictating its subsequent re-titling in my niece's name.)

Anyway, in such a situation, I guess I'll need a lawyer. So, going the Amphur route, seems the way to go -- with maybe touching base with a good lawyer as to potential future services.

Two threads that re-hash most of this:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/599413-amphur-will/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/447336-will-advice/

[elektrified]

Exactly - as per Chapter II, Section 1655 all the way through Chapter VI, the forms above fall short by a long-shot. Get a lawyer to prepare it. Or, download a Will in compliance with the law.

[tangcoral]

I dont have much asset to write a will but my main concern is if my wife and I were to die in a freak accident would this will be the right documents to prevent our thai mother in law to take custody of our young child?

We as parents would want my mother in US to have full custody.

[scorecard]

The Amphur for your location

Hmmm. I just spoke with a Thai law office a few minutes ago. The attorney says that wills should be held by one's personal attorney and a close family member, not one's local District Office. Has anyone actually filed a copy with District Officer?

- Many many Thais & farang have had their will registered at the local amphur office, very common practice.

- The attorney is perhaps a bit loose with the truth (...should be held...). This is your choice entirely. Many attorneys will encourage you to have their name

included somewhere in the will and even add statements in the will to the effect that the attorney is engaged to execute the will on your death. Again,

beware. I have three people named in my will, which was made in Thailand, who have all agreed to take care of the execution of my will: my Thai adult

son, and two western friends, both long-term residents of Thailand. They all have a copy of my will and they all know each other and all know that the others have copies of the will. My lawyer doesn't add his name to wills, his personal policy. But he did say to my son (in front of me), "if you need some advice when father passes away you know where to find me".

- For foreigners who will pass away in Thailand and have few assets, it's worth considering whether to change some things right now if the beneficiary is a

Thai person who you totally trust: e.g. transfer registration of cars etc., to the Thai persons name now, change bank accounts to joint accounts, etc.

Stand by for the incindiary bombs!

Edited February 24, 2013 by scorecard

[scorecard]

I dont have much asset to write a will but my main concern is if my wife and I were to die in a freak accident would this will be the right documents to prevent our thai mother in law to take custody of our young child?

We as parents would want my mother in US to have full custody.

I suspect Mario is the man to answer this one.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I've read everything I can find on this, and I tend to generally side with Jim's views above, as follows:

As best as I can read, there is no specific language that has to be listed in a Thai will for it to be valid. It can be a handwritten document signed by the will-maker, it can be a pro forma will that's had the blanks filled in, or it can be a from scratch will drafted entirely by some high priced Thai attorney. Those wills aren't somehow on their face invalid just because some particular language hasn't been used.

It seems all of them CAN be valid, provided the proper procedures are following for the particular will method being used. And by that, I mean the numbers of witnesses, etc etc. It seems there are at least four different categories of personal wills referenced in the Thai civil and commercial code, each with their own requirements. One of those methods is the so-called amphur will.

There seem to be some general principles that apply:

--For expats, it's generally deemed best to do one will for a person's assets in Thailand, following the legal requirements here. And then do a separate will for one's assets outside Thailand, probably following the procedures of one's home country. And in doing that, you do need to be careful and have the proper language so those two wills can co-exist and not cancel each other out.

--you can name anyone you want as executor/administrator of your Thailand estate. The executor can also be a or the beneficiary. But the named executor and any beneficiaries can't also be the signing witnesses attesting to the validity of the will. You need separate, un-involved witnesses.

One issue I'm still trying to sort out is the English vs. Thai language issues for a Thai will. There could be various approaches to this... A will written and signed in Thai that's been translated into English. A will written and signed in English that's been translated into Thai (and certified by whom???). Or a single document with double language sections, a paragraph of Thai followed by the identical pgh in English, etc etc... I'm still not clear on how to best approach that issue.

As I've said elsewhere, I'm really not inclined to trust any Thai law firm with any sensitive financial details or information of mine, especially with a document that supposedly would sit in their office for many years and could be accessed by who knows who how many people. But it's also true that a Thai will doesn't necessarily need to specifically list all one's account details as such, especially if the direction is as simple as giving all one's Thailand estate to a single beneficiary.

Lastly, I would certainly expect that Thai attorneys would advise their clients that the ONLY way to prepare a proper Thai will is to have one written by a Thai attorney. Unfortunately, especially for simpler directions, I simply don't believe that's true.

Edited June 7, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Lastly, anyone with an interest in exploring or learning about amphur wills definitely should read Nancy L's excellent account that she mentioned above, and posted a link to in another thread where the original account was posted.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/393859-where-theres-a-will-theres-a-way/

The only thing I can add about that is, her account related to her experience with the amphur staff in Chiang Mai. I suspect other amphur offices may have their own localized/variant processes or requirements, as seems the norm with almost everything in government here, including Immigration.

So it seems the best thing would be to check in advance with the appropriate staff at the amphur office where you live, and get their exact procedures from them as they'd apply to you. And probably have a bilingual Thai-English speaker on hand if at all possible.

Edited June 7, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[DiamondKing]

In this day and age of technology, I would of thought a video will would be better since it is you actually stating in person what your wishes are

Just a thought since it cant be forged and words coming out your own mouth in a video I would of thought would be air tight,

[maps424]

Leaving all your possessions to a wife from Issan or someone you met at a bar - because "she is different to the rest"?

Remember if you tell her of the will, she now has reason to have you taken out as a way to get your possessions... This is Thailand and yes it does happen.

I probably shouldn't mention it though, as people stupid enough to do that are better off with their gene-line ending lol.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I don't really worry about that in my case, though I'm certainly aware of the issue living here in Thailand.

My solution:

My fiance will know the contents of my Thai will, which governs next to nothing because I don't keep any substantial assets here.

My fiance will NOT know the contents of my HOME COUNTRY will, which governs pretty much everything of value I possess.

No matter who is my partner for the future life here, I'll always subscribe to the good advice:

You always want to be worth more ALIVE than DEAD in Thailand.

[circusman]

Is this Thai version of the go-by a standard form used in district offices, or might there be an official version as well?

Has the go-by version been filed successfully in a district office in Chiang Mai Province?

Has any TV Forum member enlisted a local Thai lawyer to draw up a Last Will & Testament (in Thai)? How much was his/her fee? Can you recommend a local law office?

Nice idea!

An English (from his accent) lawyer here in C.M. quoted me 3,500 baht for a simple will last month.

[cardholder]

The forms you posted are overly-simplified and would never stand up in court if that was to happen. There are a number of legal clauses that need to be included in a Will in any country of the world. The Amphur would probably reject those - maybe, I'm not sure. To be honest, it's a useless document as it stands.

Nonsense !

[cardholder]

In this day and age of technology, I would of thought a video will would be better since it is you actually stating in person what your wishes are

Just a thought since it cant be forged and words coming out your own mouth in a video I would of thought would be air tight,

Why do people bother guessing on such an important matter.

First requirement of a Will is that it must be in writing (with a few military exceptions)

[orang37]

Leaving all your possessions to a wife from Issan or someone you met at a bar - because "she is different to the rest"?

Remember if you tell her of the will, she now has reason to have you taken out as a way to get your possessions... This is Thailand and yes it does happen.

I probably shouldn't mention it though, as people stupid enough to do that are better off with their gene-line ending lol.

"Expat in Thailand, The Video Game"

Level I: Life revolves around a bar lit by lava lamps, all femme are fatale. Everybody else is stupid; you are a Sex-God, suffering from amnesia, hounded by unknown assassins. Survive by trolling.

~o:37;