Dutch Tourist Retracts Phi Phi Sexual Assault Report

[grumpyoldman]

Multiple replies to me re "blaming the victim".

I posted that with this forum in mind. Twice recently there have been reported rapes, Dutch girl in Chiang Mai, Scottish girl down south, and posters here have said that it was unwise for them to have consumed alcohol in excess.

Those posters then get accused of "blaming the victim".

As far as I can see it's the same thing. The Thai official is talking in a general sense, though certainly with these incidents in mind, and it is a pre-warning.

It's like if you advised Girl A to not get too drunk because she might get sexually assaulted, that's fine, advising a sensible caution.

If Girl A gets too drunk and gets sexually assaulted and you suggest - not to her, like here on the internet - that it wasn't wise to get too drunk then you are "blaming the victim".

I sort of see where you are coming from. But the cop being quoted isn't specifically referencing this victim so it should be taken as a fairly non-accusatory statement of fact that when you get blootered, you have more chance of becoming a crime victim; any sort of crime. No blame being affixed there as far as I can see. Trying to instill some sense of responsibility in the actions of pissed up farangs whilst they are still sober shouldn't be seen as part of any blame game.

I'm going to agree with Dirty Harry and take it one step further. If Girl A is super drunk, stumbling shi***housed hammered, does that mean it's o.k. to rape her?

Because really, if your argument is "she wouldn't have gotten raped if she wasn't so drunk", thats basically where you are going and that is outright wrong.

[kirk0233]

Multiple replies to me re "blaming the victim".

I posted that with this forum in mind. Twice recently there have been reported rapes, Dutch girl in Chiang Mai, Scottish girl down south, and posters here have said that it was unwise for them to have consumed alcohol in excess.

Those posters then get accused of "blaming the victim".

As far as I can see it's the same thing. The Thai official is talking in a general sense, though certainly with these incidents in mind, and it is a pre-warning.

It's like if you advised Girl A to not get too drunk because she might get sexually assaulted, that's fine, advising a sensible caution.

If Girl A gets too drunk and gets sexually assaulted and you suggest - not to her, like here on the internet - that it wasn't wise to get too drunk then you are "blaming the victim".

I sort of see where you are coming from. But the cop being quoted isn't specifically referencing this victim so it should be taken as a fairly non-accusatory statement of fact that when you get blootered, you have more chance of becoming a crime victim; any sort of crime. No blame being affixed there as far as I can see. Trying to instill some sense of responsibility in the actions of pissed up farangs whilst they are still sober shouldn't be seen as part of any blame game.

I'm going to agree with Dirty Harry and take it one step further. If Girl A is super drunk, stumbling shi***housed hammered, does that mean it's o.k. to rape her?

Because really, if your argument is "she wouldn't have gotten raped if she wasn't so drunk", thats basically where you are going and that is outright wrong.

Absolutely, for a drunk or sober woman to be raped a rapist is required. If there is not a rapist present the drunk or sober woman will not be raped. This should be obvious to everyone.

[NanLaew]

Multiple replies to me re "blaming the victim".

I posted that with this forum in mind. Twice recently there have been reported rapes, Dutch girl in Chiang Mai, Scottish girl down south, and posters here have said that it was unwise for them to have consumed alcohol in excess.

Those posters then get accused of "blaming the victim".

As far as I can see it's the same thing. The Thai official is talking in a general sense, though certainly with these incidents in mind, and it is a pre-warning.

It's like if you advised Girl A to not get too drunk because she might get sexually assaulted, that's fine, advising a sensible caution.

If Girl A gets too drunk and gets sexually assaulted and you suggest - not to her, like here on the internet - that it wasn't wise to get too drunk then you are "blaming the victim".

I sort of see where you are coming from. But the cop being quoted isn't specifically referencing this victim so it should be taken as a fairly non-accusatory statement of fact that when you get blootered, you have more chance of becoming a crime victim; any sort of crime. No blame being affixed there as far as I can see. Trying to instill some sense of responsibility in the actions of pissed up farangs whilst they are still sober shouldn't be seen as part of any blame game.

I'm going to agree with Dirty Harry and take it one step further. If Girl A is super drunk, stumbling shi***housed hammered, does that mean it's o.k. to rape her?

Because really, if your argument is "she wouldn't have gotten raped if she wasn't so drunk", thats basically where you are going and that is outright wrong.

Hold your bloody horses Tonto!! Have you read the whole discourse or just latching on to the end posts? There's no way in hell I said, infered or suggested anything remotely like what you are saying.

harrycallahan is the one claiming the cops statement infers that blame lies with the victim.

I am only agreeing there's some chance that some people may see it this way BUT I DO NOT.

[NanLaew]

So, have they actually had the results from the sexual results test?

Moot point. She has retracted the charges and moved on.

[harrycallahan]

If you want to know whether a person is "blaming the victim" or advising sensible caution try the following test.

We ask: does this person feel that the aggressor (rapist) should receive no or a more lenient penalty in this case?

Because if they do not then I would think they are not blaming the victim for the crime which was committed.

They may be blaming the victim for having placed themselves at a heightened risk. It's the same blame we cast on the drunk man who stumbled around and got beat up and mugged. I don't think anyone would say it's OK to beat up and rob people if they are drunk.

[bigbamboo]

See the web post she and a friend when u have a friend why not go with him have some drinks come back to hotel and drink all night you dont have to worry

The sad part is that a women, even pissed out of her mind, should not have to worry about sexual assault.

Why should women have to drink at home to be safe?

Surely they have every right to get as pissed as men in bars and be safe from sexual assault. Stop blaming the victim (not that you are).

Absolutely.

You also have every right to walk alone down some dark alley at night in Rio but I wouldn't recommend it.

Edited March 9, 2013 by bigbamboo

[maidu]

Two factors (among others) at play here:

>>> Thai authorities will bend over backwards to try and let off one of their own.

>>> According to Thai views, women (particularly farang) who get smashed on alcohol, are asking for trouble (a more extreme form of that primitive mind-set are Muslims. I recently heard of an Iraqi woman who left her kids in Iraq to go overseas to pursue a singing career. Iraqi authorities specified that, in Iraq, women can only sing to female audiences, because a woman singing with men in the audience would be too sexually provocative).

[webfact]

Phuket:
Sexual asssault claim dropped after tourist can't remember
Tanyaluk Sakoot

KRABI: -- A rape claim involving a female tourist from the Netherlands on Phi Phi island has been dropped after the 'victim' confessed she cannot remember details of the alleged incident.

The tourist visited the hospital on Phi Phi Island to get a checkup on March 6 after she thought she had been raped overnight.

But the case came to a halt when the tourist was unable to remember any details of the incident.

Pol Lt Col Amorat Suthikait, of Krabi Police, told The Phuket News the tourist could not remember details.

“She said she was drunk and fell asleep on the beach. We took her around some places around Phi Phi island to try and trigger her memory, but she still cannot remember,” he said.

The tourist returned to her home country yesterday.

Source: http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-rape-claim-dropped-after-tourist-cant-remember-37636.php


-- Phuket News 2013-03-09

[Sheryl]

From the account, when she "came to" she screamed and the man ran off. Probably without having yet ejaculated, which would account for the negative test results. Forensic rape tests look for semen, and also evidence of tissue trauma but in someone so drunk she wasn't even aware it was happening until midway through, the tissue would have been relaxed so no trauma evident.

I doubt she would have imagined this. But, she may well have blacked out over some of the lead up to it, i.e. she may have met the man, talked with him, perhaps even willingly gone for a walk with him etc. Or, she may just have blacked out somewhere and he found her like that. There is absolutely no way to know.

In a situation like this it is impossible to say whether or not the man intended rape vs thought the woman was OK with it given that she cannot recall what led up to that point. Of course, in any scenario he would know that she was extremely drunk, and in that sense that he was perhaps taking unfair advantage, but then for all we know he may have been equally drunk. That he ran off when she voiced protest rather than tried to stifle her and continue, does not suggest that he had forcible rape in mind.

I'm not in any way blaming her or suggesting that it's OK to take advantage of a very drunk woman, just saying that in this sort of situation it is impossible to distinguish an opportunistic rape attempt from a mix-up between people too drunk to know what they were doing.

[laislica]

Alcohol - again - there but for the grace of ......

[maidu]

the tourist was unable to remember any details of the incident.

For starters, that's what the police wanted. Now they don't have to prosecute a local boy or boys. Thailand's tourist image isn't further smudged. The rapist(s) is/are free to go about attempting to rape other girls - apparently he (and probably others like him) are jazzed about the constant influx of pretty and vulnerable (and hard drinking) farang chicks who come milling around. Easy date-rape material.

The girl came to Thailand to vacation. She soon realized, after starting to file a police report, that her whole vacation time would have to be devoted to dealing with police (who didn't want to finger a local boy), and the girl realized it would be hassle upon hassle, so she figured the quickest way to drop the drudgery (of dealing, all her waking hours, with police crap) was to say she didn't remember anything.

Plus, you can bet dollars to donuts, police wanted her to recount the juicy carnal details over and over. That's how most police are.

Edited March 9, 2013 by maidu

[oldsailor35]

Quote of the day by Krabi City Police Chief Thaksin Phochakorn:

“I would like to warn tourists to please be aware that once you start drinking, a situation can become more dangerous due to the effects of alcohol,” he added.

Many thanks to the top BiB, i did'nt know that !

[Jim walker]

How stupid must she feel now ' just lay of the alcohol dear every thing in moderation

[FDog]

Raped? Maybe (hearsay)

Result of rape test? Negative

Withdrawing claim? Done

Result of drug test? TBA.

Just get on with your holiday girl, and don't get pissed out of your tree. Take 'some' responsibility even if the act did occur.

Right, how dare she get pissed and have a good time. How about just blaming the cretin that allegedly did this.

Now matter how drunk a girl is it is no excuse to allegedly rape her,in fact it is worse as she would be less able to fight back.

[Locationthailand]

Raped? Maybe (hearsay)

Result of rape test? Negative

Withdrawing claim? Done

Result of drug test? TBA.

Just get on with your holiday girl, and don't get pissed out of your tree. Take 'some' responsibility even if the act did occur.

Right, how dare she get pissed and have a good time. How about just blaming the cretin that allegedly did this.

Now matter how drunk a girl is it is no excuse to allegedly rape her,in fact it is worse as she would be less able to fight back.

Duh - no cretin yet to be found or ID'd? Duh - she can't prove she was raped. She has withdrawn her claim and now gone home. Did she even have sexual intercourse - fantasised or real? Never established. She admits she was pissed out of her tree and can't even remember the event location so once there are some tangible facts perhaps you can make defensive comments on behalf of the 'maybe' victim. Get off your high horse...