Lm Australia Fiasco - Investors In Thailand/s.e. Asia

[Taja]

I am a Bangkok-based investor in one of the troubled funds of LM Australia. I know that there are many other investors in LM living in Thailand or the S.E. Asia region and I would very much like to hear from you and to find a way whereby we can discuss together our common issues - something which has been difficult, and continues to be difficult now that LM is under voluntary administration. There are quite a few issues to be discussed - e.g. whether and how to join the legal action against LMIM being considered by Australian law firms.

I see that a brave attempt to start such a discussion was begun last year by another investor - DINGA - but for some reason this was closed down.

So please make a post in reply if you are also an LM investor ...

Many thanks.

[Naam]

closed thread

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/549906-lm-investment-management/?hl=%2Blm+%2Binvestment+%2Bmanagement#entry5330639

LM was mentioned in other threads too and recommended by a few investors.

[Taja]

Thanks. Yes I saw the thread of discussions from last year on this same topic. Not sure why it was closed then - the issue is now more topical than ever, since the LM Funds are in more visibly serious trouble this year than last year have been placed in voluntary administration, following the various exposes in the media.

The point of trying to re-open a discussion is to bring together - "virtually" - the many investors in LM who reside in Thailand but who otherwise have no way to talk through the difficult issues that we all face. (It is certainly not to recommend LM to anyone - quite the contrary!)

Again, if there are LM investors reading this please make yourselves known.

Many thanks again.

[khunken]

I am an LM investor & invest via a Bangkok investment management company. I live in Bangkok.

I would take some convincing to get involved in legal action as I've not seen any evidence of fraudulent activity. Mismanagement maybe.

You are welcome to PM me if you wish.

[Taja]

Hi Khunkhen -

Thanks for making yourself known.

I
also don't have a clear idea of the merit - or even the feasibility -
in pursuing legal action, and quite understand any scepticism. But if
you watch the Australian TV expose' of LM on http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2013/03/04/3700673.htm,
and if you read the recent coverage in the Australian press, there does
appear to be some reason to believe that there may be some fire beneath
all the smoke: i.e. that it goes beyond simple mismanagement and that
LM may have infringed on Australian law. Have you seen the lengthy
discussion thread on LM in the Aussie Stock Forum at http://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24697&page=30 ?

I
guess you know that at least two law firms in Australia are
contemplating action on behalf of investors. They may of course be just
the usual "ambulance chasers", trying to get a share of the proceeds for
themselves - but there may also be more to this that may be of interest
to investors such as ourselves. I am justy trying to understand what
our position and whether there is anything worth following up.

Anyway,
it seems to me that precisely because individual investors such as
ourselves are very much in the dark that there is value in us trying to
connect however we can. We are effectively excluded from the Voluntary
Administration process being managed by FTI, unlike the "financial
advisors" who got us into this fiasco (who - since they are rather
bizarrely deemed to be "creditors", by virtue of their commission
agreements with LM). I am in touch with a couple of other investors
based in Bangkok. It may even be useful for us to try and meet up.

Regards.

[jackw]

I too am an investor in LM - their Managed Performance Fund. I invested 10 days before they announced the Voluntary Administration, and on the strong recommendation of a private wealth management firm that insisted they'd done an intense due diligence study of LM and its financial position back in December, and insisted on the financial integrity of LM. At this point I'm not sure whether my chief cause of action is with LM or with the PWM firm for gross negligence.

I have been led to believe that LM should not have accepted any investments in March, or at least after March 8th, and that all investment they accepted after that point they are legally obligated to return in full. I would especially like to get together with other late investors like myself.

Please contact me at <email removed, use PM function>

~ Jack

Edited April 27, 2013 by metisdead
13) Not to post email addresses in posts due to potential spam problems.

[Taja]

Fellow LM investors here in Thailand and elsewhere may find this webpage of interest: http://moneymagik.com/lm_investment_management.php It has a chronological listing of some key links and webpages related to the sorry LM saga over the past eyar or two: various circulars and notifications, various media stories, financial reports on different Funds and so on. The colours are a bit gory but it is a useful reference.

The guy who maintains this is also a regular contributor on LM Fund issues to the forum at: http://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24697&page=31 This is also well worth perusing, and very sobering.

Four or five fellow LM investors in Thailand have now made themselves known and the plan is to try and meet towards end April to discuss things to share wisdom and see what we might possible be able to do. If anyone else out there and reading this it would be great if you could make yourself known.

Regards and happy Songkran.

[Loiner]

I too am another scammed Bangkok investor in one of LM's now closed funds.

When the Peter Drake roadshow came to town a few years ago we were assured it was all a temporary liquidity problem due to the GFC. How untrue that has proved to be. There were a few investors present, but I believe more IFAs than real punters. Just how many silent sufferers are still out there? There were so many IFAs pushing LM's toxic funds that there must be dozens of expats in the same position.
It's scandalous to think that the commission grabbing parasites were still mis-selling investments in LM right up to the last few weeks. I was in favour of legal action in Aus, but it would appear to the cynic in me that LM have thrown themselves into voluntary action partly to avoid the Class Action.

As mere investors, and only in posession of the barest details, it's unlikely that anyone of us would be able to see evidence of fraudulent activity. If the lawyers can get into the books, they should be able to unravel the mess made by LM and maybe come up with the proof. LM didn't let all this suddenly happen - it's been going on for a few years now. What did all the other professional and financial service providers do with an obviously ailing group of companies - any sort of a cover up to be found here? I doubt the Australian ASIC did anything to protect investors either.

From what we can now see, this sort if scandal is rife on the Gold Coast. I for one, will never ever listen to any of the 'advice' from any of these financial leeches again. I also strongly urge everyone not to be fooled by their glossy brochures and false promises. I used to politely listen to their polished speil, thinking everyone has to make a living. Not these days though, but they are still out there and looking for new suckers. Cold call me again at your peril, and I will carefully explain.

I'll PM you Taja and hope to meet others soon.

[madmitch]

Just seen this thread and I am also an investor both in the managed fund (in my pension fund) and the investment fund, suggested a year or so ago by my IFA.

I'm based in Phuket so won't be able to attend any get-togethers in Bangkok until I am next there in July but please keep me in the loop via PM on TV or I'll PM my email address if it is preferable. It'll be good to bounce information off each other

From what I have seen there could possibly be some fraudulent activities involved with the huge loans to the directors which I believe were not disclosed to investors and potential investors and there may be questions over the legality of such loans. It's too early to consider a class action at this stage, though notification of a potential action to the directors and officers of the company as well as the company's auditors would have to be made in good time in order to comply with any statutes of limitation which apply under Australian law.

I have tried to remain positive. It's a lot of money to me. The funds are being administered and in theory at least, there are physical assets to guarantee the loans made.

[Taja]

Dear Madmitch -

Thanks and good to hear from you. There is a small group of us already in touch with each other here in Bangkok and Phuket - and a few of us plan to meet up for the first time this coming week. What I think we all find frustrating is how isolated each individual investor is, how little information is provided, and how little scope there is to be involved in decisions affecting our respective interests. As I already posted, if you haven't done so you should keep your eye on this Aussie forum (and even read older posts on it): <Link to another forum has been removed> A lot of valuable information is put up there about what is going on and about the risks to investors.

You don't say which specific LM fund you are invested in - but if you are in the FMIF or one of its feeder funds (except WFMIF) you may know that next week there is a Queensland Supreme Court hearing for an application to entrust control to Trilogy (which has already control over WFMIF) - and this is a matter of great concern to some of us since it will likely lead to further loss in Fund/Unit values, given their poor performance elsewhere.

In other words, apart from issues related to fraud or negligence perpetrated by LM (and to issues related to very poor advice from our financial advisers) - which may or may not be things for which legal action is warranted or possible - there is the very immediate issue of trying to safeguard the value of the Funds so that, when assets are disposed of we investors don't get too big a hit (and most informed people are saying that better an early "sale" than a prolonged period of "management" which will only result in more value being creamed off in % fees by those "managing").

If you want to discuss further more privately plse send me a private message.

Regards.

Edited April 27, 2013 by metisdead

[madmitch]

I'm in the LM Managed Performance Fund (pension) and the LM Australian Income Fund (direct investment via IFA).

I am not involved in the FMIF.

[Taja]

Thanks. My understanding is that the LM AIF is a feeder fund for the LM FMIF and so may also be object of the application for transfer of control from FTI to Trilogy, to be heard by the Court next week. If so, this could very well be a source of concern for you, given the record of Trilogy. (See weblink in my last post). It certainly concerns many others of us and we are exploring scope for legal action to block this move.

Indeed the LM MPF is now entrusted to Korda Mentha - hopefully that will work out well.

[metisdead]

A post containing a link to another forum has been edited to remove the link:

10) Not to post commercial spam or to post any promotional links, URLs or addresses to a member's own business or that would lead people to your site. Not to post URL links to other forums . Not to flood, post commercial or for-profit advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and similar solicitations. Any member who violates this prohibition will be banned from all forums on this website.Advertisers are the only members allowed to post links, URL's or addresses to their sites.

[Taja]

Dear Metisdead -

Thank you - I note the policy about including URL links, and will of course comply in future. However please note that the link posted was in no way promotional, commercial, related to any business, or similar. It was simply an attempt to helpfully guide readers to another highly relevant discussion site.

Regards

[Zenit]

Hello contributors,

I am a South East Asian based investor with investment in the MPF.

Although the consensus appears to be there could be worse trustees than Kordamentha, the latest update that focuses on the Madison Estate is pretty bleak.

I'd be pleased to get fellow investors views and be involved in discussions about what action to take, if any, going forward.

Regards

[Taja]

To any LM Investors reading this, I just wanted to re-post the post that started this thread:

If you are an investor in one of the troubled LM Australia funds you may be interested to join our investor group, the aim of which is to share information (all too scarce) and, where possible, to take joint action to promote our interests. We are mainly Thailand-based, we maintain regular email exchanges and occasionally we actually meet up.

If you are interested to join us please either leave a post here or send me a personal message.

Best regards.

[Desertroses]

Hello, I am not based in Thailand but an expat in the Middle-East.

Unfortunately I have invested into the LM managed performance fund through a 'financial advisor'.

It is good to see a forum with this topic to share information and opinion between investors.

My 'financial advisor' is now probing their investors to invest an additional 10-15% of the initial investment in order to save the madison project as they say the loan with one of the australian banks is ending in these weeks.

Did you get the same message or request form your contact persons?

[CB1100R]

Hi all, I'm new here having just found this thread - I joined this fund whilst in Thailand a few years ago and by god I wish I seen this thread a year ago..!!

What makes me boil is that my BKK based IFA should have been aware of these rumblings but when it came to any advice on withdrawing or rolling over the investment in the LM Managed fund there was nowt...!

Now the cash i was planning to redeem my mortgage with has gone - or so I suspect. All the IFA contact I have had is to see if I can raise any more cash..!! All in all three investments made with this IFA have all failed miserably now - Global recession or just bloody criminal incompetence...?

Now that's a big question - both for the fund and the IFA concerned

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Hi all, I'm new here having just found this thread - I joined this fund whilst in Thailand a few years ago and by god I wish I seen this thread a year ago..!!

What makes me boil is that my BKK based IFA should have been aware of these rumblings but when it came to any advice on withdrawing or rolling over the investment in the LM Managed fund there was nowt...!

Now the cash i was planning to redeem my mortgage with has gone - or so I suspect. All the IFA contact I have had is to see if I can raise any more cash..!! All in all three investments made with this IFA have all failed miserably now - Global recession or just bloody criminal incompetence...?

Now that's a big question - both for the fund and the IFA concerned

Your IFA was paid an unusually high commission (10-15%) for investing your money in this fund.

He didn't care, he got his cut.

Small note for investors, you might get 25% back if you are really lucky, but no more than that.

Edited July 27, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[AnotherOneAmerican]

double

Edited July 27, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[scotinsiam]

I am also invested in the LM MPF fund - based and working in Thailand.

[johnbaile]

I am an investor in the LM MPF.

I used to live in the Philippines but was in Kazakhstan when my Philippines based IFA made the investment.

The British ex-pat IFAs were so bad that I had told them to tell me before they invested anywhere, not put all eggs in one basket, not put capital at risk.

They invested without telling me, put a large part of the portfolio into it and, of course, the capital has gone.

They didn't tell me even after the collapse. I only discovered it when I was going to take all my money back - and they considered the LM problem to be "low risk"!

I'm back in the UK looking at taking action in Manila, but my lawyers reckon it will be hard.

Given the flagrant disregard for my instructions, I'm not really sure why.

My IFA said they only got 3% commission + 1% p.a.

I'm not sure if class actions can be extended across SE Asia.

[SKguy]

Unfortunately, I too am an investor in the LM MPF and I am based in Chiang Mai. I would like to know of any group concerned with discussing where we all go from here please.

[scotinsiam]

Unfortunately, I too am an investor in the LM MPF and I am based in Chiang Mai. I would like to know of any group concerned with discussing where we all go from here please.

I am also based in Chiang Mai and my (English) IFA is from the area.

I see LM boss Peter Drake has moved on already to insurance now.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/lm-boss-peter-drake-ploughs-a-loan-furrow-20130906-2tavo.html

[icare999]

while i feel sorry for those duped by this hopefully it will serve as yet another warning not to trust any, and I mean any, financial advisor, banker or anyone these days involved in the financial services sector. I learnt my lesson many years ago when I trusted one of these scum bags and lost a large part of my portfolio. Their was a time long ago when one could have confidence in bankers and financial advisors, brokers and the rest. Its possible a few decent honest people in the financial services industry exist but I would strongly advise all to do it themselves and avoid funds of any kind. At least if you do it yourself you have a chance.

how many more times has this got to happen before people wake up and see whats happening to them. But I guess like many tihngs most will carry on regardless like lambs to slaughter

[scotinsiam]

Interesting duscussion on LM

http://s3.excoboard.com/lmthailand

[Zenit]

The LM Investor Victim Centre site has been compiled and will be developed to provide a central resource for aggrieved LM investors and build a united movement of aggrieved investors with a goal of a fair and just resolution.

It's at https://sites.google.com/site/lminvestorvictimcentre/

[scotinsiam]

The LM Investor Victim Centre site has been compiled and will be developed to provide a central resource for aggrieved LM investors and build a united movement of aggrieved investors with a goal of a fair and just resolution.

It's at https://sites.google.com/site/lminvestorvictimcentre/

thanks for that - looks like I have some reading to do.

[SKguy]

The LM Investor Victim Centre site has been compiled and will be developed to provide a central resource for aggrieved LM investors and build a united movement of aggrieved investors with a goal of a fair and just resolution.

It's at https://sites.google.com/site/lminvestorvictimcentre/

Thank you for the link.....a site well worth a visit and to register with for any aggrieved LM investor.

[Everton1888]

I am another scammed LM Ponzi scheme investor who was cold called aggresivly by a wealth management company in Thailand. I went against all my lifelong good advice of 1. avoid Independent financial advisers at all cost as they are never independent,instead they are generally a bunch of self serving crooks somewhere between time share salesmen or scratch card con men you see on Pattaya beach.2. Thaland Ladies(boys) of the night but most of all suited W.......S. Why oh why did i not listen.My situation is critical now I have to go back to UK (no hose or job or family) and leave behind my wife and 2 young daughters in Bangkok with no support.