Older Dog Kidney Faillure What To Expect

[robblok]

Hi i am sad as one of my dogs has kidney faillure, she is 12 a 12 year old Bangkaew dog. Now that i know what to look for i should have caught it earlier. But its too late.

She is going to the vet every day to get saline in her body, its real hard to get her to eat anything and she is skinny.

I know i have to keep her diet low on phosphorus, solid foods like chicken or liver are taken sometimes but just tiny pieces.

I use a big syringe with some of my own protein powder (lower in phosphorus then meat and chicken) with some salmon oil and milk and we force feed it into her. Its not a nice job and hard on both the dog and us.

She is totally inactive only in the morning or evening does she move. But on the other hand the other dog who is in top condition does not move much either they both like to lie in the coolness of the aircon.

My question is because the vet wont give an answer.. what can i expect and is she suffering. How long.. would euthanasia be an option (not with this vet that is for sure). I don't want her to hurt.. she lost all her hair.. her eyes are mostly closed.

On the other hand hanging on to her is that good.. i mean force feeding her giving her saline each day (we are going to get taught to do it ourselves tomorrow). I guess this means they do think she can survive a bit.

I am not expecting too much here maybe i just write this to get rid of it.

[wayned]

Unfortunately euthanasia is the most humane answer. The daily input of fluids will only prolong the inevitable.

[robblok]

Unfortunately euthanasia is the most humane answer. The daily input of fluids will only prolong the inevitable.

I understand that there is no cure and i am prolonging it. I just wonder how much she is suffering.. if not then euthanasia would not cross my mind. Getting a vet to do it is also a problem here.

[meatboy]

Unfortunately euthanasia is the most humane answer. The daily input of fluids will only prolong the inevitable.

I understand that there is no cure and i am prolonging it. I just wonder how much she is suffering.. if not then euthanasia would not cross my mind. Getting a vet to do it is also a problem here.

i feel for you and your loved one its heart breaking to see your loyal freind in this way,where is it you live.

[robblok]

I live in Bang Yai, Nonthaburi. It is not good to see her go, though today she supprised me by wanting to eat (just small pieces of chicken breast) But still she kept it down and seemed to enjoy it. This was in the afternoon after having to force feed her in the morning. So today she got enough food in her belly.

[meatboy]

sorry mate we are too far away,if your stuck surely someone at jatuchak would know who to contact.keep us posted.

[Sheryl]

Sorry to hear of this.

I think you are in a better position than anyone else to know if she is suffering, as you know her best.

Generally speaking death from kidney failure is not too bad as deaths go. Toxins will build up in the blood and cause her to go into a semi-coma and then a coma and from there, she'll die.

Might try seeing if one of the high-class vets (e.g. Thonglar Pet Hospital) can prescribe sedatives or pain killers for her to help ease things. The main difficulty is the period before coma sets in as she may be confused at that point. Not exactly in pain, but uncomfortable and disoriented.

I would not force feed her as that only adds to her discomfort. For the saline, it depends. I have known people who kept pets alive and seemingly comfortable -- even fairly active -- with daily IV infusions for a year or more. I think one big question is how she reacts to it. If she seems not to mind it to much and it results in her having some "quality time" then might be worth it. On the other hand if she has to be held down for it, seems to hate it, and/or it doesn't seem to render her any more able to be active then probably not.

[rsokolowski]

It is always a hard call for a pet owner to make. You are in the best position to know when it is time to put the dog down and when prolonging life is really just extending the suffering. Sorry to hear about your situation, wish you the best.

[robblok]

Sorry to hear of this.

I think you are in a better position than anyone else to know if she is suffering, as you know her best.

Generally speaking death from kidney failure is not too bad as deaths go. Toxins will build up in the blood and cause her to go into a semi-coma and then a coma and from there, she'll die.

Might try seeing if one of the high-class vets (e.g. Thonglar Pet Hospital) can prescribe sedatives or pain killers for her to help ease things. The main difficulty is the period before coma sets in as she may be confused at that point. Not exactly in pain, but uncomfortable and disoriented.

I would not force feed her as that only adds to her discomfort. For the saline, it depends. I have known people who kept pets alive and seemingly comfortable -- even fairly active -- with daily IV infusions for a year or more. I think one big question is how she reacts to it. If she seems not to mind it to much and it results in her having some "quality time" then might be worth it. On the other hand if she has to be held down for it, seems to hate it, and/or it doesn't seem to render her any more able to be active then probably not.

Thanks for that i had no idea what would happen. Ok i wont force feed her then i don't like to see her suffer. The saline is not a problem she does not mind it at all. I am not sure what the saline exactly does i thought just give her some water so she does not dry out.

Just a bit ago all the food she ate came out..it is sad.. she was a great dog. I hate this i feel bad about it. I never thought about the death of a pet... always thought good one day dead the other. Too bad its not like this.

[wolf5370]

My cat had renal (kidney) failure last year. After a few days at the vet, I took him home and gave him the saline solution myself (it's not hard and supplies can be bought cheaply from pet suppliers) - this is easier on him than transporting him to the vet and I could give it to him in stages too. He was on a special diet, like your fella.

The vet told me he may or may not recover, but to keep it up. He needed the saline for a few weeks, until he could pee gain (and needed stomach massages too to help). A year later and he is pretty much his old self - his renal function is good (he does suffer from crystals now, which cause him discomfort and sometimes bleeding when passing). He never put back on the weight he had, he still eats a lot less - but mostly he is good now.

So, I would keep it up - he may well be OK in the end - without explorative surgery, they do not know if the kidney disease and even renal failure is terminal - the body has amazing restorative powers given the right environment (fluids via drip), low protein, etc.

//Edit: Just saw your query: Not sure what the saline does - well basically it flushes out the system, makes him pee a lot - which removes the toxins building up because of the renal failure. This works as long as there is some renal function and as it is pure, it waters down the impurities which the kidney is trying to remove (in the body's systems). It also hydrates too of course.

Edited April 11, 2013 by wolf5370

[robblok]

My cat had renal (kidney) failure last year. After a few days at the vet, I took him home and gave him the saline solution myself (it's not hard and supplies can be bought cheaply from pet suppliers) - this is easier on him than transporting him to the vet and I could give it to him in stages too. He was on a special diet, like your fella.

The vet told me he may or may not recover, but to keep it up. He needed the saline for a few weeks, until he could pee gain (and needed stomach massages too to help). A year later and he is pretty much his old self - his renal function is good (he does suffer from crystals now, which cause him discomfort and sometimes bleeding when passing). He never put back on the weight he had, he still eats a lot less - but mostly he is good now.

So, I would keep it up - he may well be OK in the end - without explorative surgery, they do not know if the kidney disease and even renal failure is terminal - the body has amazing restorative powers given the right environment (fluids via drip), low protein, etc.

//Edit: Just saw your query: Not sure what the saline does - well basically it flushes out the system, makes him pee a lot - which removes the toxins building up because of the renal failure. This works as long as there is some renal function and as it is pure, it waters down the impurities which the kidney is trying to remove (in the body's systems). It also hydrates too of course.

The dog is peeing.. multiple times a day but its total white no color at all.

Was your cat old ? this dog is quite old .. we can try and go on with her if there are chances then i of course go on. I thought this to be terminal always.

[Potosi]

It enables the dog to pee, and lowers the sodium level in the blood. Robblok, if you can't find a vet who does the euthanasia, you can ask a cop to shoot the dog. Or you can do it yourself with Nitrogen or Helium in a small sealed room, that is painless as well.

[wolf5370]

My cat had renal (kidney) failure last year. After a few days at the vet, I took him home and gave him the saline solution myself (it's not hard and supplies can be bought cheaply from pet suppliers) - this is easier on him than transporting him to the vet and I could give it to him in stages too. He was on a special diet, like your fella.

The vet told me he may or may not recover, but to keep it up. He needed the saline for a few weeks, until he could pee gain (and needed stomach massages too to help). A year later and he is pretty much his old self - his renal function is good (he does suffer from crystals now, which cause him discomfort and sometimes bleeding when passing). He never put back on the weight he had, he still eats a lot less - but mostly he is good now.

So, I would keep it up - he may well be OK in the end - without explorative surgery, they do not know if the kidney disease and even renal failure is terminal - the body has amazing restorative powers given the right environment (fluids via drip), low protein, etc.

//Edit: Just saw your query: Not sure what the saline does - well basically it flushes out the system, makes him pee a lot - which removes the toxins building up because of the renal failure. This works as long as there is some renal function and as it is pure, it waters down the impurities which the kidney is trying to remove (in the body's systems). It also hydrates too of course.

The dog is peeing.. multiple times a day but its total white no color at all.

Was your cat old ? this dog is quite old .. we can try and go on with her if there are chances then i of course go on. I thought this to be terminal always.

Yes, the not-pee in my cat's case was a bladder infection caused by the kidney failure (it was in fact what alerted us to the kidney problem) - so this is not likely to be a symptom with your dog.

The clear pee - is that since he is being given fluids? If so, this is normal as it is washing through him. His morning pee (first one), if you get to see it, should be darker/more normal coloured. Kidney failure can be caused by several things - and not only n-term kidney disease - it all looks pretty much the same unless there is a serious infection too (which can cause the kidney failure - or can be caused by the kidney failure!) which would show up in blood and stool tests. All I was saying is that it is not necessarily kidney disease unless they have done some kind of surgical test or biopsy, it could be something else that caused the kidney failure and the kidneys may not be so damaged that they can regain enough function for a healthy life. If it has been an issue for a while, this may have caused issues throughout his system (toxins), again this may clear and reduce the symptoms like sickness, hair loss, jaundice, etc - or may not. Only time will tell, and unless he is in undue stress or pain, then I would continue, watch and see how it goes.

Wish you all good luck. Oh, and the cat is middle aged as cats go, but he is an import (Maine Coon) so very large and susceptible to such ailments as kidney disease.

[brianinbangkok]

Hi Rob,

My 12 1/2 year old basset hound died last month his kidney had also failed, we tried to force feed also but that rarely stayed inside.

Due to his kidney failure he is slowly poisening himself and will die.

A bloodtest the vet had done proved that his kidney had almost completly stopped working.

I suggest you have a blood sample tested to check if is kidney, unless the vet already did that.

What you can do for your dog is make him comfortable and without pain, we had pain killers in liquid form and in the last week I injected him once a day.

We actually slept downstairs with him to help him get up and pee as he could no longer standup by himself in the last week. The last few days he stopped drinking and had not eaten for a week except for liquid food and water we put in his mouth.

He was still there mentaly alert but it was clear his body could not go on.

The last night he did not lay on his side but like a sfinx upright. He was moving about a bit restless. Then we heard him kind of gasp and we rushed to him and held him in our arms as he died.

Just be there for your dog when he needs you most, and get some painkillers if needed.

A good hospital can be found at kasertsart uni.

Good luck, and I know how you must be feeling now.

Sterkte,

Brian

Sent from my HTC Desire S

Edited April 11, 2013 by brianinbangkok

[meatboy]

Sorry to hear of this.

I think you are in a better position than anyone else to know if she is suffering, as you know her best.

Generally speaking death from kidney failure is not too bad as deaths go. Toxins will build up in the blood and cause her to go into a semi-coma and then a coma and from there, she'll die.

Might try seeing if one of the high-class vets (e.g. Thonglar Pet Hospital) can prescribe sedatives or pain killers for her to help ease things. The main difficulty is the period before coma sets in as she may be confused at that point. Not exactly in pain, but uncomfortable and disoriented.

I would not force feed her as that only adds to her discomfort. For the saline, it depends. I have known people who kept pets alive and seemingly comfortable -- even fairly active -- with daily IV infusions for a year or more. I think one big question is how she reacts to it. If she seems not to mind it to much and it results in her having some "quality time" then might be worth it. On the other hand if she has to be held down for it, seems to hate it, and/or it doesn't seem to render her any more able to be active then probably not.

Thanks for that i had no idea what would happen. Ok i wont force feed her then i don't like to see her suffer. The saline is not a problem she does not mind it at all. I am not sure what the saline exactly does i thought just give her some water so she does not dry out.

Just a bit ago all the food she ate came out..it is sad.. she was a great dog. I hate this i feel bad about it. I never thought about the death of a pet... always thought good one day dead the other. Too bad its not like this.

having been a hard b---ard all my life i am not afraid to say this brings tears to my eye's,just keep telling her [body language] you love her.

[robblok]

The pee is always without any color (even the first) today I will ask the vet for more info if they know how bad it is. This is really a sad thing.

[Sheryl]

Hi Rob,

My 12 1/2 year old basset hound died last month his kidney had also failed, we tried to force feed also but that rarely stayed inside.

Due to his kidney failure he is slowly poisening himself and will die.

A bloodtest the vet had done proved that his kidney had almost completly stopped working.

I suggest you have a blood sample tested to check if is kidney, unless the vet already did that.

What you can do for your dog is make him comfortable and without pain, we had pain killers in liquid form and in the last week I injected him once a day.

We actually slept downstairs with him to help him get up and pee as he could no longer standup by himself in the last week. The last few days he stopped drinking and had not eaten for a week except for liquid food and water we put in his mouth.

He was still there mentaly alert but it was clear his body could not go on.

The last night he did not lay on his side but like a sfinx upright. He was moving about a bit restless. Then we heard him kind of gasp and we rushed to him and held him in our arms as he died.

Just be there for your dog when he needs you most, and get some painkillers if needed.

A good hospital can be found at kasertsart uni.

Good luck, and I know how you must be feeling now.

Sterkte,

Brian

Sent from my HTC Desire S

Was it at kasertsart that you got the pain killers? I have been wondering about the availability of strong pain killers for pets here. In the west you can get fentanyl patches etc, which means that it is often possible to enable a pet to die a natural painless death at home.

[brianinbangkok]

@Sheryl

No I moved back to Europe for work so we took our then 11 year old dog with us from Thailand. Lots of paperwork, lots of money but we got to enjoy his company for another 18 months before he died.

Kasertsart should have these pain killers, I have been there several times over the years with my dogs and its the best and biggest hospital for animals in Thailand.

They should have these painkillers.

Sent from my HTC Desire S

[mistitikimikis]

Heart braking Rob! I wish you strength!

I asked the opinion of my ex-vet in North-Spain with whom we were working close together to spade and neuter stray-cats and who was our house-doctor for all our animals what to do in such cases without giving two intravenous injections.

Edited April 12, 2013 by mistitikimikis

[robblok]

Thanks and this is the first pet i ever lost, so its all new for me. I pity the poor dog a lot. but we stopped force feeding the dog and i will give her IV tomorrow as the dr is closed. Its not that hard to do and she just accepts it without any problems. She is a good dog.. so sweet.

[mistitikimikis]

Thanks and this is the first pet i ever lost, so its all new for me. I pity the poor dog a lot. but we stopped force feeding the dog and i will give her IV tomorrow as the dr is closed. Its not that hard to do and she just accepts it without any problems. She is a good dog.. so sweet.

I can feel deeply what it is! It's also hard to take myself the decission in such a case; went through this lots of times but never ever forgot their names. Lost shortly a black kitty who walked in, had her a couple of months and I found her dead on a morning a couple of days after neutering. Now I adopted a female of more than 16 years old, so.......

Voor mij zijn dieren de beste vrienden die je hebben kunt!

Nogmaals veel sterkte!

[brianinbangkok]

Do continue to give a little water !

Sent from my HTC Desire S

[wayned]

My first post, post #2, wasn't meant to be callous. I used to raise Golden Retrievers and now take in unwanted mutts. I have now have 10 and am close to each one. I've lost two Goldens since 2009 due to total kidney failure. One 4 years old, the other 5. The blood test indicated that the kidneys had totally failed. I managed to keep one alive with continuing IV drip for about 2 weeks. She showed signs of getting better, started eating a little, but finally gave in. The other one only lasted a couple of days even with the drip. They didn't seem to be in any pain, but unless they are moaning or whining, you can't really tell. They both passed away lying on a blanket next to my chair as did my Avatar on 16 June from cancer. Euthanasia is a difficult decision but, to be truthful, if it was my time it would be my choice.

I hope that she makes a miraculous recovery. I know how much animals become part of the family. Good luck!

[robblok]

Wayned, i also see euthanesia as the most humane thing to do unfortunately its hard to get done here and my gf seems to be against it. Its her mothers dog that lives here for years. So I can't decide it. Anyway she is great much nicer as her son that i raised (can't do anything right)

[circusman]

How can a pet owner not put the suffering dog to sleep? Selfish, thats why. Won't give up the pet so the pet suffers more each day. WAKE UP

[mistitikimikis]

You can accept it or not but it's one the five precepts of basic Buddhist codes of ethics. I shouldn't follow this precept in such a case, either for humans nor for animals but you are living here in a Buddhist culture. It has nothing to do with being selfish but with a deeply rooted religion starting around 500 BC.

[robblok]

You can accept it or not but it's one the five precepts of basic Buddhist codes of ethics. I shouldn't follow this precept in such a case, either for humans nor for animals but you are living here in a Buddhist culture. It has nothing to do with being selfish but with a deeply rooted religion starting around 500 BC.

Indeed, and I myself have no problems with it but can't go against the wishes of the gf in this case. Even if she were to agree to find a vet willing to do so is hard here in this country.

For the suffering part, she does not whimper or anything just sleeps and even comes to me to get petted.

[how241]

It is always a hard call for a pet owner to make. You are in the best position to know when it is time to put the dog down and when prolonging life is really just extending the suffering. Sorry to hear about your situation, wish you the best.

+1

[mistitikimikis]

There's the underlaying problem: the family. My stepdaughter learned in the mean time to give here pets (ex stray-dogs) injections but I'm sure she will refuse when I ask her for any help in a final case. I almost don't want to kill animals either with some exeptions like rats but when I asked her where to buy poison she was responding that I could catch them and release them somewhere in the wild........., not realising that they are spreading deceases dangerous to her child, to her and her pets but........

[Card]

Many years ago, my ageing dog had kidney failure. I wasn't there at the time but my mum told me how painful it was. If, for some strange reason your vet won't put the dog out of its misery then do everything you can to find one and now. I doubt that the condition will get any better and may deteriorate quickly. You don't want a screaming dog in the middle of the night and not being able to do anything about it.