Songkran Holidays: Fatalities Rise As Crashes Get Worse

[apetley]

""Our records show that more people are killed per accident when we calculate the severity index by dividing the number of deaths by the number of accidents," Assoc Prof Kunnawee Kanitpong, manager of the Thailand Accident Research Centre (TARC) at the Asian Institute of Technology, said." Is that supposed to sound impressive, and the best the manager at AIT can come up with? My respect for that place just flew out the window.. -mel.Maybe they should set about recording ALL the accidents from Songkran first. Let's see the real accident statistics first. I really would like to know if the number of vehicle accidents is higher than at any other time of year.You have no proof that they aren't counting all accidents that are reported! Is taking a negative stance going to solve the problem? Surely it's better to accept the figures and then go for a positive approach in trying to solve the main problem, the accidents not the figures!

I can't speak for this Songkran but in previous years I know for a fact deaths have not been reported. It's been published that no fatalities occurred on a particular day in my home province when there was a deadly accident not far from my house.

[Yunla]

Road safety is linked to standard of living and the wisdom of the State in a given country, and unfolds generationally, not overnight.

Nations such as Sweden etc. (for all its faults) which push an eco-friendly, healthy lifestyle culture and serious regulation of environmental poisons in the air/water/food intended to keep the workers and worker's families healthy, also have extremely strict driving regulations and a robust road-safety cutlure. You can contrast this with our current Govt over here, who really don't care about anyone except themselves and their own shadowy schemes. And the free-for-all unregulated poisoning of Thai food, air and water. It can only follow that the Govt don't care about the people here.

Obviously there are always bad drivers and drunk drivers in every nation on Earth, but that is inevitable and not a kinetic integer in any charting of this data. What it really boils down to is the cultural value of human life, as dictated by the state in the form of investment and 'real wage' economics. If you have good salary, and live in a country where your government cares about its citizens to even a small degree, you are culturally raised to value your own life & that of other citizens. If your state tells you that you are worthless, and just loots that national coffers instead of improving the nation for everyone, then generationally you will become subconsciously attuned to your own worthlessness, which of course doesn't make you a safe driver.

Edited April 19, 2013 by Yunla

[Pattaya28]

We go round in circles on this 1.

Government does not police the Police.

The Police do not enforce much at all.

The fines are laughably so low that no deterrent is there.

No helmet, impound the bike.

More than 2 on a bike, impound the bike.

No front and rear lights on bike, impound the bike.

Riding bike on wrong side of road, impound the bike.

Drunk riding bike, impound the bike.

Release of bike, 5,000 Baht.

A simple way of increasing road safety.

But sadly, nothing will ever be implemented or thought through effectively.

[BrianCR]

I think the majority of Thai main roads are quite well maintained with most road side "objects" placed at a safe distance. Two main problems spring to mind through, road works without suitable signage and the political signs that appear from time to time (especially during elections). No, the road carnage is caused by one object - the five hundred baht "tea money" that gives an automatic licence to drive -. If people are serious about stopping road deaths start by both driver and police training. Stop the use of handheld mobiles, stop the 3 year old kid sitting on the drivers lap, stop the 25 people in the back of a pick-up, stop the kids on motorcycles and most of all show drivers that it's not clever to race other cars just to be "at the front" and it is clever to have driving morals and road sense

None of that will ever happen in our life times, i've been here 20 yrs and it just gets worse

Don't believe it, I have been here 33 years and it's getting better - we don't have cars and buses getting hijacked on major roads any more - drive by shootings (although still happen) are not everyday affairs - drivers are slowly starting to realize that they can see more at night with their lights on (instead of saving electricity - I joke not). As far as Thai's are concerned they are starting to think for themselves (politically) - what is getting worse is the amount of posters who are knocking the place and the amount of exaggerated, negative comments that many westerners think it's their right to be able to make. It could get a lot better if western super brains dropped the negativity and came up with some positive ideas acceptable within Thai culture - have a nice day

[BrianCR]

""Our records show that more people are killed per accident when we calculate the severity index by dividing the number of deaths by the number of accidents," Assoc Prof Kunnawee Kanitpong, manager of the Thailand Accident Research Centre (TARC) at the Asian Institute of Technology, said." Is that supposed to sound impressive, and the best the manager at AIT can come up with? My respect for that place just flew out the window.. -mel.Maybe they should set about recording ALL the accidents from Songkran first. Let's see the real accident statistics first. I really would like to know if the number of vehicle accidents is higher than at any other time of year.You have no proof that they aren't counting all accidents that are reported! Is taking a negative stance going to solve the problem? Surely it's better to accept the figures and then go for a positive approach in trying to solve the main problem, the accidents not the figures!

I can't speak for this Songkran but in previous years I know for a fact deaths have not been reported. It's been published that no fatalities occurred on a particular day in my home province when there was a deadly accident not far from my house.

What are you saying you go out of your house and check every accident? Also where are you saying that it wasn't reported, newspapers or government figures because the later do not usually breakdown accidents into individual streets and roads? Edited April 19, 2013 by BrianCR

[khunken]

Just another case of an academic not seeing the wood for the trees.

[Tatsujin]

"Speeding and harmful objects near roads have made the collisions worse," Kunnawee said. "We found that many of the deaths in Prachuap Khiri Khan were caused by vehicles skidding off roads and crashing into obstacles like trees. The authorities have not paid enough attention to reducing speeding and dangerous things along roads."

Here's a thought then . . . STOP THROWING THE BLOODY WATER EVERYWHERE AND STOP DRINKING WHEN DRIVING. Problem solved.

[belg]

the only reason why there are less death this year : bad weather = less speeding idiots showing their drunk driving skills on the motosay in the street to impress the laaaaaaaaaaydies

[mancub]

I think the majority of Thai main roads are quite well maintained with most road side "objects" placed at a safe distance. Two main problems spring to mind through, road works without suitable signage and the political signs that appear from time to time (especially during elections). No, the road carnage is caused by one object - the five hundred baht "tea money" that gives an automatic licence to drive -. If people are serious about stopping road deaths start by both driver and police training. Stop the use of handheld mobiles, stop the 3 year old kid sitting on the drivers lap, stop the 25 people in the back of a pick-up, stop the kids on motorcycles and most of all show drivers that it's not clever to race other cars just to be "at the front" and it is clever to have driving morals and road sense

None of that will ever happen in our life times, i've been here 20 yrs and it just gets worse

Don't believe it, I have been here 33 years and it's getting better - we don't have cars and buses getting hijacked on major roads any more - drive by shootings (although still happen) are not everyday affairs - drivers are slowly starting to realize that they can see more at night with their lights on (instead of saving electricity - I joke not). As far as Thai's are concerned they are starting to think for themselves (politically) - what is getting worse is the amount of posters who are knocking the place and the amount of exaggerated, negative comments that many westerners think it's their right to be able to make. It could get a lot better if western super brains dropped the negativity and came up with some positive ideas acceptable within Thai culture - have a nice day

Oh dear !,,,Well, if none of the suggestions repeatedly offered ie:

Having driving tests worthy of the title.

Having deterrents that actually deter ,and not merely inconvenience , etc etc are NOT acceptable within Thai culture , then there is no hope !

If thai culture encourages the acquisition of 3 litre powerful pick up trucks , then it surely must accept the associated responsibility .

Quite simply ,if you're neither educated sufficiently nor capable of safely operating your vehicle ,then you present a real danger to yourself and other road users .

How can a country as advanced as Thailand , with so many new vehicles being registered every day , continue to have such appalling driving standards ?

[DocN]

I think the majority of Thai main roads are quite well maintained with most road side "objects" placed at a safe distance. Two main problems spring to mind through, road works without suitable signage and the political signs that appear from time to time (especially during elections). No, the road carnage is caused by one object - the five hundred baht "tea money" that gives an automatic licence to drive -. If people are serious about stopping road deaths start by both driver and police training. Stop the use of handheld mobiles, stop the 3 year old kid sitting on the drivers lap, stop the 25 people in the back of a pick-up, stop the kids on motorcycles and most of all show drivers that it's not clever to race other cars just to be "at the front" and it is clever to have driving morals and road sense

None of that will ever happen in our life times, i've been here 20 yrs and it just gets worse

Don't believe it, I have been here 33 years and it's getting better - we don't have cars and buses getting hijacked on major roads any more - drive by shootings (although still happen) are not everyday affairs - drivers are slowly starting to realize that they can see more at night with their lights on (instead of saving electricity - I joke not). As far as Thai's are concerned they are starting to think for themselves (politically) - what is getting worse is the amount of posters who are knocking the place and the amount of exaggerated, negative comments that many westerners think it's their right to be able to make. It could get a lot better if western super brains dropped the negativity and came up with some positive ideas acceptable within Thai culture - have a nice day

Oh pray tell...what is acceptable within Thai- culture?

Having laws that say "don't drink and drive"?...oh wait...that exists already!

Having laws that say "stop at a red light"?...ahm...

Oh here...I got one: "to drive a motorcycle you need to be 16 years old, have a licence and wear a helmet"...oh...

Peace, man!

Edited April 19, 2013 by metisdead
30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

[Tatsujin]

I think the majority of Thai main roads are quite well maintained with most road side "objects" placed at a safe distance. Two main problems spring to mind through, road works without suitable signage and the political signs that appear from time to time (especially during elections). No, the road carnage is caused by one object - the five hundred baht "tea money" that gives an automatic licence to drive -. If people are serious about stopping road deaths start by both driver and police training. Stop the use of handheld mobiles, stop the 3 year old kid sitting on the drivers lap, stop the 25 people in the back of a pick-up, stop the kids on motorcycles and most of all show drivers that it's not clever to race other cars just to be "at the front" and it is clever to have driving morals and road sense

None of that will ever happen in our life times, i've been here 20 yrs and it just gets worse

Don't believe it, I have been here 33 years and it's getting better - we don't have cars and buses getting hijacked on major roads any more - drive by shootings (although still happen) are not everyday affairs - drivers are slowly starting to realize that they can see more at night with their lights on (instead of saving electricity - I joke not). As far as Thai's are concerned they are starting to think for themselves (politically) - what is getting worse is the amount of posters who are knocking the place and the amount of exaggerated, negative comments that many westerners think it's their right to be able to make. It could get a lot better if western super brains dropped the negativity and came up with some positive ideas acceptable within Thai culture - have a nice day

Or alternatively, the Thai's could drop their xenophobia and accept that they don't always know best.

And I don't "think" it's my right, I "know" it's my right to say whatever I wish, wherever I wish to say it . . . and then to face the consequences of said comments.

Edited April 19, 2013 by metisdead
30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

[apetley]

""Our records show that more people are killed per accident when we calculate the severity index by dividing the number of deaths by the number of accidents," Assoc Prof Kunnawee Kanitpong, manager of the Thailand Accident Research Centre (TARC) at the Asian Institute of Technology, said." Is that supposed to sound impressive, and the best the manager at AIT can come up with? My respect for that place just flew out the window.. -mel.Maybe they should set about recording ALL the accidents from Songkran first. Let's see the real accident statistics first. I really would like to know if the number of vehicle accidents is higher than at any other time of year.You have no proof that they aren't counting all accidents that are reported! Is taking a negative stance going to solve the problem? Surely it's better to accept the figures and then go for a positive approach in trying to solve the main problem, the accidents not the figures!I can't speak for this Songkran but in previous years I know for a fact deaths have not been reported. It's been published that no fatalities occurred on a particular day in my home province when there was a deadly accident not far from my house.What are you saying you go out of your house and check every accident? Also where are you saying that it wasn't reported, newspapers or government figures because the later do not usually breakdown accidents into individual streets and roads?

What I am saying is that there was a fatal accident near my house and it was reported in the Thai news that in my province, on that particular day there were no fatalities.

[MaxYakov]

I think the majority of Thai main roads are quite well maintained with most road side "objects" placed at a safe distance. Two main problems spring to mind through, road works without suitable signage and the political signs that appear from time to time (especially during elections). No, the road carnage is caused by one object - the five hundred baht "tea money" that gives an automatic licence to drive -. If people are serious about stopping road deaths start by both driver and police training. Stop the use of handheld mobiles, stop the 3 year old kid sitting on the drivers lap, stop the 25 people in the back of a pick-up, stop the kids on motorcycles and most of all show drivers that it's not clever to race other cars just to be "at the front" and it is clever to have driving morals and road sense

None of that will ever happen in our life times, i've been here 20 yrs and it just gets worse

Don't believe it, I have been here 33 years and it's getting better - we don't have cars and buses getting hijacked on major roads any more - drive by shootings (although still happen) are not everyday affairs - drivers are slowly starting to realize that they can see more at night with their lights on (instead of saving electricity - I joke not). As far as Thai's are concerned they are starting to think for themselves (politically) - what is getting worse is the amount of posters who are knocking the place and the amount of exaggerated, negative comments that many westerners think it's their right to be able to make. It could get a lot better if western super brains dropped the negativity and came up with some positive ideas acceptable within Thai culture - have a nice day

Or alternatively, the Thai's could drop their xenophobia and accept that they don't always know best.

And I don't "think" it's my right, I "know" it's my right to say whatever I wish, wherever I wish to say it . . . and then to face the consequences of said comments.

Isn't a right something which one can exercise or invoke with impunity?

[Tatsujin]

Don't believe it, I have been here 33 years and it's getting better - we don't have cars and buses getting hijacked on major roads any more - drive by shootings (although still happen) are not everyday affairs - drivers are slowly starting to realize that they can see more at night with their lights on (instead of saving electricity - I joke not). As far as Thai's are concerned they are starting to think for themselves (politically) - what is getting worse is the amount of posters who are knocking the place and the amount of exaggerated, negative comments that many westerners think it's their right to be able to make. It could get a lot better if western super brains dropped the negativity and came up with some positive ideas acceptable within Thai culture - have a nice day

Or alternatively, the Thai's could drop their xenophobia and accept that they don't always know best.

And I don't "think" it's my right, I "know" it's my right to say whatever I wish, wherever I wish to say it . . . and then to face the consequences of said comments.

Isn't a right something which one can exercise or invoke with impunity?

If we were back in the UK, I would say yes . . . here in the LoS, it's a little different. I have certain (very few) "rights" here as a foreigner . . . any and all of which can be ignored or taken away from me at the drop of a hat.

[Thai at Heart]

Don't believe it, I have been here 33 years and it's getting better - we don't have cars and buses getting hijacked on major roads any more - drive by shootings (although still happen) are not everyday affairs - drivers are slowly starting to realize that they can see more at night with their lights on (instead of saving electricity - I joke not). As far as Thai's are concerned they are starting to think for themselves (politically) - what is getting worse is the amount of posters who are knocking the place and the amount of exaggerated, negative comments that many westerners think it's their right to be able to make. It could get a lot better if western super brains dropped the negativity and came up with some positive ideas acceptable within Thai culture - have a nice day

Or alternatively, the Thai's could drop their xenophobia and accept that they don't always know best.

And I don't "think" it's my right, I "know" it's my right to say whatever I wish, wherever I wish to say it . . . and then to face the consequences of said comments.

Isn't a right something which one can exercise or invoke with impunity?

If we were back in the UK, I would say yes . . . here in the LoS, it's a little different. I have certain (very few) "rights" here as a foreigner . . . any and all of which can be ignored or taken away from me at the drop of a hat.

Bleating on thaivisa is still OK I reckon.

It's not like commandeering an airport or burning down central Bangkok. Although it seems that merely saying things is frowned upon here sometimes.

[PoodMaiDai]

If it wasn't for those pesky things like trees and poles ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD we wouldn't have so many accidents.

[Mudcrab]

Attempting to change any culture , whether on a national scale or just in a workplace situation is always difficult. There are many reasons for this. However we should accept we won't change everything overnight i.e stopping drink driving, no helmets, corrupt police etc etc. It never happened overnight in the west so it might not in Thailand either. However we can make a start. I would suggest that the most effective measure , initially, would be a public awareness campaign to start wearing seat belts every time when driving a car.

A major TV campaign to start the education process, massage a few ego's that it isn't affecting their ability to drive or lose face. Forget the big stick approach (massive fines, loss of car or license) as it creates a negative attitude and indeed, in Thailand, would most likely only line a few more policemen's pockets. The trick is to get the positive message out there, not the negative one. Show TV ads showing mum buckling up the kids in the back of the car for example. Many posters here would have experienced a campaign similar to this in the past. Start with the small changes - it is often more effective.

[MEL1]

""Our records show that more people are killed per accident when we calculate the severity index by dividing the number of deaths by the number of accidents," Assoc Prof Kunnawee Kanitpong, manager of the Thailand Accident Research Centre (TARC) at the Asian Institute of Technology, said."

Is that supposed to sound impressive, and the best the manager at AIT can come up with? My respect for that place just flew out the window..

-mel.

Maybe they should set about recording ALL the accidents from Songkran first. Let's see the real accident statistics first. I really would like to know if the number of vehicle accidents is higher than at any other time of year.

You have no proof that they aren't counting all accidents that are reported! Is taking a negative stance going to solve the problem? Surely it's better to accept the figures and then go for a positive approach in trying to solve the main problem, the accidents not the figures!

I KNOW there is substantial proof that they do not count all accidents, be they reported or not. They being the BIB, of course. A member of my own family had a crash, and no I was not with the group travelling....... but he was over the limit, paid the other owner 12K baht, and was allowed to drive on ( after a further back hander, of course ). So do you want to accept the figures as they stand, and believe figures will never change they ways?

That's like saying the villagers really vote for Thaksin, irrelevant of the figures of bribery to vote for him. So let's accept those bribes, as figures of voters, and then deal with the accidents as a result of the main cause, shall we?

You're the expert, so advise me please.

-mel.

[Thai at Heart]

Attempting to change any culture , whether on a national scale or just in a workplace situation is always difficult. There are many reasons for this. However we should accept we won't change everything overnight i.e stopping drink driving, no helmets, corrupt police etc etc. It never happened overnight in the west so it might not in Thailand either. However we can make a start. I would suggest that the most effective measure , initially, would be a public awareness campaign to start wearing seat belts every time when driving a car.

A major TV campaign to start the education process, massage a few ego's that it isn't affecting their ability to drive or lose face. Forget the big stick approach (massive fines, loss of car or license) as it creates a negative attitude and indeed, in Thailand, would most likely only line a few more policemen's pockets. The trick is to get the positive message out there, not the negative one. Show TV ads showing mum buckling up the kids in the back of the car for example. Many posters here would have experienced a campaign similar to this in the past. Start with the small changes - it is often more effective.

But it seems fear of death doesn't really grab the attention.

[Mudcrab]

Attempting to change any culture , whether on a national scale or just in a workplace situation is always difficult. There are many reasons for this. However we should accept we won't change everything overnight i.e stopping drink driving, no helmets, corrupt police etc etc. It never happened overnight in the west so it might not in Thailand either. However we can make a start. I would suggest that the most effective measure , initially, would be a public awareness campaign to start wearing seat belts every time when driving a car.

A major TV campaign to start the education process, massage a few ego's that it isn't affecting their ability to drive or lose face. Forget the big stick approach (massive fines, loss of car or license) as it creates a negative attitude and indeed, in Thailand, would most likely only line a few more policemen's pockets. The trick is to get the positive message out there, not the negative one. Show TV ads showing mum buckling up the kids in the back of the car for example. Many posters here would have experienced a campaign similar to this in the past. Start with the small changes - it is often more effective.

But it seems fear of death doesn't really grab the attention.

So true...the fear of death simply doesn't work. Nobody goes out to kill themselves. We all like to think we are the worlds best driver and nothing will ever happen to us, but when things do go wrong the single biggest saver of lives is the humble seat belt. It stops the chest being crushed and just as importantly keeps the driver and passengers from being ejected from the car in a roll over. Of course it doesn't help the other ten in the back of the pickup....but as I said ..one thing at a time.

[Thai at Heart]

Attempting to change any culture , whether on a national scale or just in a workplace situation is always difficult. There are many reasons for this. However we should accept we won't change everything overnight i.e stopping drink driving, no helmets, corrupt police etc etc. It never happened overnight in the west so it might not in Thailand either. However we can make a start. I would suggest that the most effective measure , initially, would be a public awareness campaign to start wearing seat belts every time when driving a car.

A major TV campaign to start the education process, massage a few ego's that it isn't affecting their ability to drive or lose face. Forget the big stick approach (massive fines, loss of car or license) as it creates a negative attitude and indeed, in Thailand, would most likely only line a few more policemen's pockets. The trick is to get the positive message out there, not the negative one. Show TV ads showing mum buckling up the kids in the back of the car for example. Many posters here would have experienced a campaign similar to this in the past. Start with the small changes - it is often more effective.

But it seems fear of death doesn't really grab the attention.

So true...the fear of death simply doesn't work. Nobody goes out to kill themselves. We all like to think we are the worlds best driver and nothing will ever happen to us, but when things do go wrong the single biggest saver of lives is the humble seat belt. It stops the chest being crushed and just as importantly keeps the driver and passengers from being ejected from the car in a roll over. Of course it doesn't help the other ten in the back of the pickup....but as I said ..one thing at a time.

No, that doesn't scan with me. I understand that a speed limit isn't some number pulled out of the sky.

110 km on a basic Thai road is more than enough, any I'd better pay real attention. I once drove in Germany with a friend at 210 km. It was genuinely exhausting and terrifying.

I think I am a good driver, but even Schumacher doesn't have to dodge oncoming traffic. And yes, I am in no hurry to die

Edited April 19, 2013 by Thai at Heart

[Todd1985]

Pretty simple, make it a actual challenge like every country to get your licence! A question from a driving test what can you drive on Thai roads 1.a tank 2. a racing car with a permit 3. a unregistered car answer= 2 <deleted>? Fix roads maybe, teach them it's not a closest to a head on collision everyday contest

Edited April 20, 2013 by Todd1985

[lockman]

1st they need to start having some driver education by age 8-9 in schools. If someone goes through a checkpoint and no license, vehicle moved off road until some with a license arrives. Same person, second offense, impound vehicle, 1000B fine to get it back and only by a licensed driver, 3rd offense, 10,000B fine. I know and understand that children here as young as 9-10 use motorcycles to go to and from school, so allow that but ONLY with a provisional license that is only valid within the sub district, and limited to school, etc. Start taking away the source of the problem which is unlicensed drivers who have no idea what the laws are. Right now the bad driving habits of everyone else is perpetuated.

Edited April 20, 2013 by lockman

[metisdead]

A post containing overly derogatory comments toward Thais has been removed.

[Thai at Heart]

1st they need to start having some driver education by age 8-9 in schools. If someone goes through a checkpoint and no license, vehicle moved off road until some with a license arrives. Same person, second offense, impound vehicle, 1000B fine to get it back and only by a licensed driver, 3rd offense, 10,000B fine. I know and understand that children here as young as 9-10 use motorcycles to go to and from school, so allow that but ONLY with a provisional license that is only valid within the sub district, and limited to school, etc. Start taking away the source of the problem which is unlicensed drivers who have no idea what the laws are. Right now the bad driving habits of everyone else is perpetuated.

Most kids are already riding bikes at 8 or 9.

Scarier still are the 50 + year olds. I refuse to let my in laws drive my kids anywhere. Terrifying.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Thai at Heart