Liverpool F.c.

[StevieH]

Stick my neck out here (not that far though) and say if it weren't for the United result, Rafa would be collecting his P45 this morning.

Actually, i did secretly think to myself after we lost that game, that were i (heaven forbid, cross my heart, hope to die) a Liverpool supporter, i'd be half thinking that losing to United might not be such a bad thing as it might hasten Rafa's departure and allow time for someone to come in and still do something with the season.

And before you say it, i know that for one, finding a replacement, and for two, paying Rafa off are major problems for the club, but as an outsider, i'd say anything is better than the path you are currently on.

Just my opinion, and i'm sure in the unlikely event of any of you Liverpool fans showing your faces on here today, you'll disagree - if for nothing else than about it not being a bad thing to lose to United! Yeah ok, i accept that's a stretch!

replacing the manager this season would still achieve nothing and be a massive step backwards. the path we are currently on was laid down in the summer by the owners who pulled an additional 30m pounds from the manager's budget leaving him unable to sufficiently reinforce the squad to kick on from last season's excellent work. throw into that an appalling run of injuries this season, two to our best two players picked up on unnecessary international duty, and we're having a stinker. but the manager was the right man last season, he came close to the title despite torres and gerrard only starting 14 games together, we finished above a chelsea with a budget lightyears away from our own and he remains the best man to take the club forward. but he needs backing, and while he doesn't have that backing, we're going to remain precarious and under threat. as we would under any other manager right now.

[StevieH]

I think most are only questioning his substitution of Beni.

benayoun was knackered and at risk of picking up an injury which would count him out of lyon on wednesday. that just couldn't allowed to happen.

and it isn't 'most', it's only the knobheads who think rafa is to blame for us having a paper thin squad this season.

[bkkjames]

I think most are only questioning his substitution of Beni.

benayoun was knackered and at risk of picking up an injury which would count him out of lyon on wednesday. that just couldn't allowed to happen.

and it isn't 'most', it's only the knobheads who think rafa is to blame for us having a paper thin squad this season.

Well stevie I watched him come off visibly pissed off for being substituted again.

Like thousands of LP fans on forums around the world have voiced and it is clear to see, rafa's priority is the CL and the reality is that ship has pretty well sailed sans a miracle.

The bigger worry I suppose now for those knobheads as you refer to them, is rafa's apparent sacrificing the league for the CL this year, is whether LP will be in it next.

[Jimjim]

Well that's 5 defeats in 6 now, so things are certainly not good. For the fans it must be extremely frustrating -seems that Benitez can get the team up for one off games, but just can't do it over the course of the season consistently enough. The good work from last week against united has now been wasted again.

Not this season, no, but he certainly got them motivated for 86 points last season, didn't he? Not a fair estimation of his overall record then, your statement.

Well stevie I watched him come off visibly pissed off for being substituted again.

Like thousands of LP fans on forums around the world have voiced and it is clear to see, rafa's priority is the CL and the reality is that ship has pretty well sailed sans a miracle.

The bigger worry I suppose now for those knobheads as you refer to them, is rafa's apparent sacrificing the league for the CL this year, is whether LP will be in it next.

Yes Benayoun was upset at coming off, as he wanted to keep playing. No <deleted>. But that doesn't mean all the pundits know what they're talking about. They can question, fine, but are they even managers most of them? No, they get paid to spew any nonsense out of their mouths that they see fit to say.

Sacrificing Premier League for Champions League? This just shows little real clue. He's always played the best team he had for league matches this season, and Torres went off against United to save him for??? the Carling Cup? No, it's because he's not fully fit, and Rafa clearly did not want to risk him being out for any coming matches. Same deal against Fulham. He needs time to rest before important matches and criticizing him for thinking about the next game, which is massive for Liverpool FC, shows little clue again. So the Champions League is not a big competition? Makes perfect sense to me to rest a player not fully fit. Everyone criticizes it and then in the next breath they say that Liverpool are in grave danger of losing out on the Champions League knockout stage. So shouldn't we have our best player for those matches? They say it would be financial disaster for us to lose any more in Champions League and don't expect us to have our best players for it, so I just do not get it. You cannot have it both ways. Despite what you think, it's not "clear" he favors Champoins League over the Premier League. That is so far from the truth it's just laughable nonsense former player talk.

And, a miracle? Hmm, winning the next 3 games in the Champions League will not be a miracle. Nice kneejerk reactions but that ship has not pretty well sailed. But thank you for your insights. Next time I just won't bother.

[Mossfinn]

replacing the manager this season would still achieve nothing and be a massive step backwards.

I have got to agree with this, hasn't he just signed another deal after an awful lot of brinkmanship on both sides, look what he did last year, you don't become bad over night.

The half time team talk in the CL final against Milan will go down as the greatest on record, even if brevity was the substance.

Injuries and mishaps, sometimes they go against you regarding results, unfortunately the Leeds saga hangs heavy above, I hope the Yanks do not create another Pearl Harbour around Anfield.

[StevieH]

Well stevie I watched him come off visibly pissed off for being substituted again.

Like thousands of LP fans on forums around the world have voiced and it is clear to see, rafa's priority is the CL and the reality is that ship has pretty well sailed sans a miracle.

The bigger worry I suppose now for those knobheads as you refer to them, is rafa's apparent sacrificing the league for the CL this year, is whether LP will be in it next.

james, it's only misinformed and idiot fans who listen to talksport radio who are parrotting the 'rafa's apparent sacrificing the league for the CL this year'. you seem to be one of them. i only point this out because the man himself said in an interview at the start of the season 'the league title is our priority for this season'. but then he can't really win even by makinghonest statements can he? not given the sheer number of herdlike morons who follow football.

[KhaoNiaw]

Well stevie I watched him come off visibly pissed off for being substituted again.

Like thousands of LP fans on forums around the world have voiced and it is clear to see, rafa's priority is the CL and the reality is that ship has pretty well sailed sans a miracle.

The bigger worry I suppose now for those knobheads as you refer to them, is rafa's apparent sacrificing the league for the CL this year, is whether LP will be in it next.

The reality is not at all that Rafa's priority is the CL. He's not sacrificed the league for the CL. His priority at the moment is using the players and resources to keep the whole season going. Your view of it is simply wrong, yet you're trying to pass yourself off as knowing something about the situation.

It's quite plain to anyone who just looks a little bit beyond the headlines and the non-matching-going knee-jerking masses, whose voices tend to be represented in the media as the voice of real fans, where the difficulties for Rafa's immediate team selections and the deeper problems at Liverpool lie.

My beef with him at present is that he seems to be using the squad in the way he would like to be able to, but without currently having enough quality to do it. That means being able to take out your top players and putting in a lesser talent who will still do the job. That's what Ferguson has built. Rafa seems slightly oblivious to the limitations of the replacements at present - but then he's not had much choice. It's quite clear that not getting the funds he was promised from sales in the summer has had an effect. It's clear what he wants, and it's equally clear he hasn't got that yet. That's partly his own fault, but he's been put in a position where every miss in the transfer market counts much more heavily than it should.

Anyone genuinely thinking we should be getting rid of Benitez under the current conditions must be a total lunatic. Someone coming in would be replacing one of the best managers in Europe, with absolutely no guarantee that they would do better.

Edited November 3, 2009 by KhaoNiaw

[bkkjames]

Well stevie I watched him come off visibly pissed off for being substituted again.

Like thousands of LP fans on forums around the world have voiced and it is clear to see, rafa's priority is the CL and the reality is that ship has pretty well sailed sans a miracle.

The bigger worry I suppose now for those knobheads as you refer to them, is rafa's apparent sacrificing the league for the CL this year, is whether LP will be in it next.

james, it's only misinformed and idiot fans who listen to talksport radio who are parrotting the 'rafa's apparent sacrificing the league for the CL this year'. you seem to be one of them. i only point this out because the man himself said in an interview at the start of the season 'the league title is our priority for this season'. but then he can't really win even by makinghonest statements can he? not given the sheer number of herdlike morons who follow football.

Like I said Stevie, it's comments from LP fans whether on Sky, Goal.com, any of the UK papers and so on. According to the comments many like you lifetime supporters and quite a few are season ticket holders.

Honestly, I think he is being given a bit of a rough time cause while team selection is his responsibility it also comes very much down to the players on the field.

[StevieH]

Well stevie I watched him come off visibly pissed off for being substituted again.

Like thousands of LP fans on forums around the world have voiced and it is clear to see, rafa's priority is the CL and the reality is that ship has pretty well sailed sans a miracle.

The bigger worry I suppose now for those knobheads as you refer to them, is rafa's apparent sacrificing the league for the CL this year, is whether LP will be in it next.

james, it's only misinformed and idiot fans who listen to talksport radio who are parrotting the 'rafa's apparent sacrificing the league for the CL this year'. you seem to be one of them. i only point this out because the man himself said in an interview at the start of the season 'the league title is our priority for this season'. but then he can't really win even by makinghonest statements can he? not given the sheer number of herdlike morons who follow football.

Like I said Stevie, it's comments from LP fans whether on Sky, Goal.com, any of the UK papers and so on. According to the comments many like you lifetime supporters and quite a few are season ticket holders.

Honestly, I think he is being given a bit of a rough time cause while team selection is his responsibility it also comes very much down to the players on the field.

liverpool have masses of gobshite season ticket holders, same as every other club. and they're usually the ones whose voices are only heard when there's something to moan about.

and like i said, which you ignored, rafa benitez stated at the start of the season that the league was his priority. but then let's not let facts and circumstances get in the way of another media-driven witchhunt shall we?

[bkkjames]

Well stevie I watched him come off visibly pissed off for being substituted again.

Like thousands of LP fans on forums around the world have voiced and it is clear to see, rafa's priority is the CL and the reality is that ship has pretty well sailed sans a miracle.

The bigger worry I suppose now for those knobheads as you refer to them, is rafa's apparent sacrificing the league for the CL this year, is whether LP will be in it next.

james, it's only misinformed and idiot fans who listen to talksport radio who are parrotting the 'rafa's apparent sacrificing the league for the CL this year'. you seem to be one of them. i only point this out because the man himself said in an interview at the start of the season 'the league title is our priority for this season'. but then he can't really win even by makinghonest statements can he? not given the sheer number of herdlike morons who follow football.

Like I said Stevie, it's comments from LP fans whether on Sky, Goal.com, any of the UK papers and so on. According to the comments many like you lifetime supporters and quite a few are season ticket holders.

Honestly, I think he is being given a bit of a rough time cause while team selection is his responsibility it also comes very much down to the players on the field.

liverpool have masses of gobshite season ticket holders, same as every other club. and they're usually the ones whose voices are only heard when there's something to moan about.

and like i said, which you ignored, rafa benitez stated at the start of the season that the league was his priority. but then let's not let facts and circumstances get in the way of another media-driven witchhunt shall we?

What is Rafa supposed to say Stevie? "Na, I don't give a <deleted> about the premiership, only the CL means anything."

[oldgit]

Changing this manager won't achieve anything as he was magnificent last season in guiding Liverpool to second place in the Premiership under difficult conditions.When you have a top class manager like Benitez,you keep faith with him through all situations.Chelsea have found to their cost that changing managers on a whim is not the answer.Ultimately,for all the off field problems,the onus for the clubs progress falls on the players on the pitch and the results they achieve.With Liverpool's injury problems,the players that are usually on the sidelines need to step up to the plate.People like Voronin, Babel and Ngog have an obligation to the club to perform now they are in the forefront.

[StevieH]

Changing this manager won't achieve anything as he was magnificent last season in guiding Liverpool to second place in the Premiership under difficult conditions.When you have a top class manager like Benitez,you keep faith with him through all situations.Chelsea have found to their cost that changing managers on a whim is not the answer.Ultimately,for all the off field problems,the onus for the clubs progress falls on the players on the pitch and the results they achieve.With Liverpool's injury problems,the players that are usually on the sidelines need to step up to the plate.People like Voronin, Babel and Ngog have an obligation to the club to perform now they are in the forefront.

good post man, exactly where we are at. however gutless charalatans like voronin and babel are incapable of performing now as they don't have a pair of testicles between them. indeed if the two owners hadn't stolen away more than half of rafa's summer transfer budget, neither babel nor voronin would be at the club now. nor would a few others.

[bkkjames]

Stevie:

His is Rafa's Sept 19 press con quote regarding this topic.

Benitez said: "The Premier League is the priority for the fans. But the Champions League is massive, and we will not forget the domestic cups because this club are expected to do well in everything.

"It is always important to approach every competition to win it. But in a top side like Liverpool, the priority for the fans has to be the Premier League. Then the Champions League, the FA Cup and the Carling Cup. If you wanted an order, that is probably it. But I am greedy, I want to win the Premier League and the Champions League."

[KhaoNiaw]

It's really labouring a ridiculous point to say that Rafa prioritizes the CL over the Premier League. If you can't think for yourself beyond the media pundits and the phone-in fans, it probably seems quite plausible. So, carry on.

[StevieH]

It's really labouring a ridiculous point to say that Rafa prioritizes the CL over the Premier League. If you can't think for yourself beyond the media pundits and the phone-in fans, it probably seems quite plausible. So, carry on.

indeed.

[mrbojangles]

Changing this manager won't achieve anything

good post man, exactly where we are at.

Absolutely. The RAGS seem to have forgotten that Fergusson was only one game away from being shown the door. City have been guilty of changing waay too many managers and look where that strategy has gotten us. Erm.....yeah, nowhere. Not a cup in the cupboard for 33 years. The fans should stick behind Rafa and not jump on the "sack him, he's <deleted>" bandwagon.

[mrtoad]

Well that's 5 defeats in 6 now, so things are certainly not good. For the fans it must be extremely frustrating -seems that Benitez can get the team up for one off games, but just can't do it over the course of the season consistently enough. The good work from last week against united has now been wasted again.

Not this season, no, but he certainly got them motivated for 86 points last season, didn't he? Not a fair estimation of his overall record then, your statement.

What precisely was my statement? If you can tell me where I referred to his overall record I'll by you a hot-dog. As it is, currently his record this season is not good. Football is about results, which when they are not good turns pressure onto the team and the manager. My own feeling is that there is no point changing the manager, as there are a number of other issues at the club that need to be resolved if their club is to actually make serious progress. So now run along and try twisting someone elses words. BTW, 86 points -what did they win, a lot of inconsistency when it mattered last season as well?

[bkkjames]

Well that's 5 defeats in 6 now, so things are certainly not good. For the fans it must be extremely frustrating -seems that Benitez can get the team up for one off games, but just can't do it over the course of the season consistently enough. The good work from last week against united has now been wasted again.

Not this season, no, but he certainly got them motivated for 86 points last season, didn't he? Not a fair estimation of his overall record then, your statement.

What precisely was my statement? If you can tell me where I referred to his overall record I'll by you a hot-dog. As it is, currently his record this season is not good. Football is about results, which when they are not good turns pressure onto the team and the manager. My own feeling is that there is no point changing the manager, as there are a number of other issues at the club that need to be resolved if their club is to actually make serious progress. So now run along and try twisting someone elses words. BTW, 86 points -what did they win, a lot of inconsistency when it mattered last season as well?

No doubt those 7 draws are looking good about now. JK

[Jimjim]

Mrtoad, how long is a season? About 10 months? How long has this season been, about two and a half so far? So, look at what you said. You said he can't get the team up over the course of the season and seem to be relating it to the current troubles. It would make no sense if you are talking about this season as we are not even a third through it yet. So I have to assume you are talking about his record in seasons past. Come back and make that statement when the season's over if it's warranted, ok? Or, perhaps you could revise your post to make more sense so I can know what you're talking about. But he clearly was able to get the team up for all of last season with a record Premier League points haul for Liverpool. I'll pass on the offer of a hotdog, thanks. I did not twist your words, mate, you just weren't making much sense I suppose.

Yes, I'll run along you arse, to the Liverpool forum. Oh wait, I'm already there.

[mrtoad]

Mrtoad, how long is a season? About 10 months? How long has this season been, about two and a half so far? So, look at what you said. You said he can't get the team up over the course of the season and seem to be relating it to the current troubles. It would make no sense if you are talking about this season as we are not even a third through it yet. So I have to assume you are talking about his record in seasons past. Come back and make that statement when the season's over if it's warranted, ok? Or, perhaps you could revise your post to make more sense so I can know what you're talking about. But he clearly was able to get the team up for all of last season with a record Premier League points haul for Liverpool. I'll pass on the offer of a hotdog, thanks. I did not twist your words, mate, you just weren't making much sense I suppose.

Yes, I'll run along you arse, to the Liverpool forum. Oh wait, I'm already there.

Well done.

I will stand by my statement that he has not been able to get the team up to the required consistency over the course of a season - last year was a point in case with some really bad results at crucial times. His record has been of progression for sure, but when it he has really needed to grind out the results -which Chelsea and Manchester United are pretty adept at doing he hasn't managed to achieve that. I don't doubt you have the right manager, I still reckon though he's on dodgy ground though, and the club needs to sort out the mess at the very top, before it can move on. Sorry, If you feel I'm being harsh on your club -I would imagine that it is very frustrating at present watching them.

[oldgit]

Changing this manager won't achieve anything as he was magnificent last season in guiding Liverpool to second place in the Premiership under difficult conditions.When you have a top class manager like Benitez,you keep faith with him through all situations.Chelsea have found to their cost that changing managers on a whim is not the answer.Ultimately,for all the off field problems,the onus for the clubs progress falls on the players on the pitch and the results they achieve.With Liverpool's injury problems,the players that are usually on the sidelines need to step up to the plate.People like Voronin, Babel and Ngog have an obligation to the club to perform now they are in the forefront.

good post man, exactly where we are at. however gutless charalatans like voronin and babel are incapable of performing now as they don't have a pair of testicles between them. indeed if the two owners hadn't stolen away more than half of rafa's summer transfer budget, neither babel nor voronin would be at the club now. nor would a few others.

I bow to your better judgement,mate, regarding Vorinin and Babel as I haven't seen too much of them but what I will say is that some players,when given the chance over the course of a dozen games or so,improve out of all proportion so much that they become unrecognisable from the sack of dung that they were before.This is down to two things,confidence(the manager's faith in them to perform......delicate creatures,modern day players) and match fitness.I think Lucas is a case in point.

[Devil]

Injury crisis continues...

Steven Gerrard (groin), Albert Riera (hamstring), Martin Kelly (ankle) and Martin Skrtel (muscle and virus).

Glen Johnson (calf) and Fabio Aurelio (calf) have now pulled out.

Fernando Torres has travelled to Lyon despite a groin injury, while Alberto Aquilani is available after a virus.

Benitez also has fitness concerns over Daniel Agger (back) and David Ngog (ankle)

Not looking good is it.

[MSingh]

No Op for Torres it seems..

http://www.guillembalague.com/blog_desp.ph...ated&id=368

[MSingh]

Injury crisis continues...

Steven Gerrard (groin), Albert Riera (hamstring), Martin Kelly (ankle) and Martin Skrtel (muscle and virus).

Glen Johnson (calf) and Fabio Aurelio (calf) have now pulled out.

Fernando Torres has travelled to Lyon despite a groin injury, while Alberto Aquilani is available after a virus.

Benitez also has fitness concerns over Daniel Agger (back) and David Ngog (ankle)

Not looking good is it.

That's 7 Muscle injuries then..

Training ??

[rixalex]

Been a lot of support of Rafa over the last page from varying quarters. I read and digested with interest, but found myself disagreeing with most of you.

For me, the bottom line is the manager isn't good enough. That's it. He's good, but not good enough.

He's had enough time and despite complications and distractions with the owners, he has had a decent amount of cash to spend (less than some like Chelsea, more than others like Arsenal) and he has been given sufficient freedom to make the important decisions.

Liverpool deserves better and it deserves more - from the owners yes, but also from the manager, and if Liverpool fans don't agree with that then this Man United fan has a bigger opinion of their team than they do.

[KhaoNiaw]

Liverpool deserves better and it deserves more - from the owners yes, but also from the manager, and if Liverpool fans don't agree with that then this Man United fan has a bigger opinion of their team than they do.

So says you - a completely meaningless and pointless statement. Anyone who disagrees with your personal opinion, is said by you to think less of their club and manager than you do. What utter cack.

[MSingh]

Been a lot of support of Rafa over the last page from varying quarters. I read and digested with interest, but found myself disagreeing with most of you.

For me, the bottom line is the manager isn't good enough. That's it. He's good, but not good enough.

He's had enough time and despite complications and distractions with the owners, he has had a decent amount of cash to spend (less than some like Chelsea, more than others like Arsenal) and he has been given sufficient freedom to make the important decisions.

Liverpool deserves better and it deserves more - from the owners yes, but also from the manager, and if Liverpool fans don't agree with that then this Man United fan has a bigger opinion of their team than they do.

Outside opinions are always a good thing i think so i'll chip in on top of Rix too..

He IS a good Manager, he's one of the few people on this Planet who is smart enough to be able to Manage a Football Team that can win the Champions League.

However, i believe there are other non Footballing issues with him that he isn't happy with which coincides with the Owners not spending the $$ on the Players he wants & that is affecting the Football Club directly so, so is Rafa.

I believe a change for Liverpool would be the best thing for the Football Club & correct me if i'm wrong but i believe th Fans, who are the most importnat thing at any Football Club, are wanting domestic success over European success now & i don't believe that Rafa is the Man to bring that to Anfield.

Just my 10p's worth.

Edit : Also, a question i've been ,meaning to ask someone without Gerrard tinted Specs for a while, what's wrong with him & i don't just mena this current Injury ??

His body Language over the past 6 or so months is like nothing i've ever seen & i watch Gerrard a lot because he is one of my favourite Players ??

Is it something to do with teh Court Case maybe or personal ??

Is there problems with him ??

Edited November 4, 2009 by MSingh

[StevieH]

Been a lot of support of Rafa over the last page from varying quarters. I read and digested with interest, but found myself disagreeing with most of you.

For me, the bottom line is the manager isn't good enough. That's it. He's good, but not good enough.

He's had enough time and despite complications and distractions with the owners, he has had a decent amount of cash to spend (less than some like Chelsea, more than others like Arsenal) and he has been given sufficient freedom to make the important decisions.

Liverpool deserves better and it deserves more - from the owners yes, but also from the manager, and if Liverpool fans don't agree with that then this Man United fan has a bigger opinion of their team than they do.

well you're just wrong. he is good enough to win a league title in spain, twice, with fewer resources than his rivals. he went close last season with far fewer resources than his rivals. you're simply wrong.

and liverpool don't 'deserve' anything. that's a ludicrous statement from anyone and coming from a united fan it's fuc_king embarrassing.

[bkkjames]

Been a lot of support of Rafa over the last page from varying quarters. I read and digested with interest, but found myself disagreeing with most of you.

For me, the bottom line is the manager isn't good enough. That's it. He's good, but not good enough.

He's had enough time and despite complications and distractions with the owners, he has had a decent amount of cash to spend (less than some like Chelsea, more than others like Arsenal) and he has been given sufficient freedom to make the important decisions.

Liverpool deserves better and it deserves more - from the owners yes, but also from the manager, and if Liverpool fans don't agree with that then this Man United fan has a bigger opinion of their team than they do.

well you're just wrong. he is good enough to win a league title in spain, twice, with fewer resources than his rivals. he went close last season with far fewer resources than his rivals. you're simply wrong.

and liverpool don't 'deserve' anything. that's a ludicrous statement from anyone and coming from a united fan it's fuc_king embarrassing.

you don't believe you deserve better from the owners stevie?

[rixalex]

and liverpool don't 'deserve' anything. that's a ludicrous statement from anyone and coming from a united fan it's fuc_king embarrassing.

What's embarrassing about it Stevie? Just trying to be honest.

And my honest opinion is, were i a Liverpool fan, i would have expected more both from the owners and from the manager than they have delivered.