Liverpool F.c.

[StevieH]

he picked the side and set it up james. in a 4-4-2 against lower league opposition. and then when it clearly wasn't working still didn't make any changes within the 90 minutes. the man is hugely out of his depth.

[carmine]

he picked the side and set it up james. in a 4-4-2 against lower league opposition. and then when it clearly wasn't working still didn't make any changes within the 90 minutes. the man is hugely out of his depth.

I don't understand that last bit.

How can a manager that took Fulham to the europa final, with lesser players than he currently has access to, be "hugely out of his depth!!!" Theres no sense in that comment.

Isn't it purely a case of the Liverpool players being totally <deleted> against a lower league team that they should have beaten with ease?

[StevieH]

he picked the side and set it up james. in a 4-4-2 against lower league opposition. and then when it clearly wasn't working still didn't make any changes within the 90 minutes. the man is hugely out of his depth.

I don't understand that last bit.

How can a manager that took Fulham to the europa final, with lesser players than he currently has access to, be "hugely out of his depth!!!" Theres no sense in that comment.

Isn't it purely a case of the Liverpool players being totally <deleted> against a lower league team that they should have beaten with ease?

well, he picked the side and set the tactics. and set up with the same negative 4-4-2 which he did against man city where we got pulled to bits. then sat there seemingly incapable of changing things either tactically or with a substitution, again just as he did against city.

and there's plenty of sense in that comment. fulham is about hodgson's level and last season he got them punching above their weight on a great run to the uefa cup final. rather like steve mclaren did with middlesbrough.

[bkkjames]

Some might say based on current and last season's form that Rafa had you guys punching way above your weight two years ago?

[carmine]

he picked the side and set it up james. in a 4-4-2 against lower league opposition. and then when it clearly wasn't working still didn't make any changes within the 90 minutes. the man is hugely out of his depth.

I don't understand that last bit.

How can a manager that took Fulham to the europa final, with lesser players than he currently has access to, be "hugely out of his depth!!!" Theres no sense in that comment.

Isn't it purely a case of the Liverpool players being totally <deleted> against a lower league team that they should have beaten with ease?

well, he picked the side and set the tactics. and set up with the same negative 4-4-2 which he did against man city where we got pulled to bits. then sat there seemingly incapable of changing things either tactically or with a substitution, again just as he did against city.

and there's plenty of sense in that comment. fulham is about hodgson's level and last season he got them punching above their weight on a great run to the uefa cup final. rather like steve mclaren did with middlesbrough.

Sorry it does'nt make sense. You remember this guy coached Inter twice. No way is he hugely out of his depth, but i admit that i too am not impressed thus far

Edited September 23, 2010 by carmine

[StevieH]

Some might say based on current and last season's form that Rafa had you guys punching way above your weight two years ago?

given the club's resources relative to rivals? undoubtedly so, yes.

[StevieH]

he picked the side and set it up james. in a 4-4-2 against lower league opposition. and then when it clearly wasn't working still didn't make any changes within the 90 minutes. the man is hugely out of his depth.

I don't understand that last bit.

How can a manager that took Fulham to the europa final, with lesser players than he currently has access to, be "hugely out of his depth!!!" Theres no sense in that comment.

Isn't it purely a case of the Liverpool players being totally <deleted> against a lower league team that they should have beaten with ease?

well, he picked the side and set the tactics. and set up with the same negative 4-4-2 which he did against man city where we got pulled to bits. then sat there seemingly incapable of changing things either tactically or with a substitution, again just as he did against city.

and there's plenty of sense in that comment. fulham is about hodgson's level and last season he got them punching above their weight on a great run to the uefa cup final. rather like steve mclaren did with middlesbrough.

Sorry it does'nt make sense. You remember this guy coached Inter twice. No way is he hugely out of his depth, but i admit that i too am not impressed thus far

he was an odd choice for inter at a time they were nowhere near the size of club they are now. otherwise he's coached in scandinavia, switzerland, one pretty less than average spell with blackburn and a season of over-achievement at fulham. he's not a top class manager.

[bkkjames]

Well Stevie, who would your choice of manager be?

Sorry the 68 year old red nose is apparently too old and has a job.

[StevieH]

it doesn't really matter while we're in the state we're in as the manager will be on a hiding to nothing anyway. i believe that bloke at inter milan is pretty good though.

kenny dalglish would have been my heart's choice but the fear of the modern day sky generation fans slagging him off on the phone-ins and the like would have been too much for most reds.

soon as we have new owners, assuming they have money to invest in the club and in the playing squad, roy is out the door anyway.

[PattayaParent]

A quote from Christian Purslow

"When we sell the business that debt will be reduced or go away, which will make us the most profitable club in the Premier League."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/9024688.stm

Sounds good but maybe someone should tell him that the money used to buy the club will have to be borrowed by the new purchaser from some financial institution, or if they're a self funding independently wealthy Abramovich type, the money will be owed to the new purchaser.

Either way, it's still debt, and will only not be debt if the money is repaid out of earned profit.

[rixalex]

it doesn't really matter while we're in the state we're in as the manager will be on a hiding to nothing anyway. i believe that bloke at inter milan is pretty good though.

The same bloke who was in charge when you took on Barnsley a few years ago you mean?

Getting unstuck in the early stages of a cup competition by "lesser" opponents is nothing new of course, and the fact is most "top" managers can "boast" getting caught on that particular banana skin once or twice in their careers.

Roy is in my opinion being written off far too quickly. He should be given time. Doubtful he will be. Unlike Rafa, he doesn't seem to have the benefit of a section of the supporters constantly crying in his defence, post crap team performance: "don't blame the manager, blame the owners".

[Abrak]

A quote from Christian Purslow

"When we sell the business that debt will be reduced or go away, which will make us the most profitable club in the Premier League."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/9024688.stm

Sounds good but maybe someone should tell him that the money used to buy the club will have to be borrowed by the new purchaser from some financial institution, or if they're a self funding independently wealthy Abramovich type, the money will be owed to the new purchaser.

Either way, it's still debt, and will only not be debt if the money is repaid out of earned profit.

I am sure an Abromavich type or a wealth fund would actually look at an acquisition of Liverpool in a different light. Loading Liverpool up with debt has been tried and failed and not putting in debt and taking out money every year wont work much better. The key for a wealth fund will be to put in a large chunk of money - lets dream GBP 500m - not take out a penny and allow all the 'profits' to be reinvested to build the club so after 10 years it is worth GBP1bn.

This is vaguely viable. Clubs are going to have to become self-financing in a couple of years so your ability to develop the club depends 1) on your funding structure (not much point in having a decent profit is it is swallowed by interest payments -MANU and 2) your core underlying profitability which in Liverpool's case is say GBP30m (before player transactions interest and tax).

So lets assume RBS takes them over and you pay GBP300m to pay off their debt and get the club (100%) and relatively debt free. You invest another GBP100m in 4 or 5 good players hopefully taking Liver pool back to a top 4 club. You are still virtually debt free and hopefully making GBP30m a year. And each year that can be spent maintaining and building the squad. Essentially Liverpool would be the best funded and most profitable club in the Premiership if not Europe. And from that basis it could become one of the most successful.

As StevieH says there is nothing wrong with Liverpool apart from it is overleveraged with expensive debt. That is now destroying the club. But ManU and Barcelona are not that far behind. If clubs have to become self financing it will be the best funded clubs that succeed. Wealth funds will happily reinvest profits so long as it builds up the inherent value of the business.

[Jimjim]

This latest refinancing deal that has been put together by Hicks and Blackstone looks to be very worrying for the club.

No new money for players or the stadium and Hicks gets until 2012 to sell the club or else it is taken over by Blackstone.

not sure, it smells fishy this one. one because blackstone aren't that big and don't have that kind of money to lend to hicks themselves and two that hicks has no assets left to put up as collateral on more refinancing. i don't see who on earth is going to lend hicks any more money at the moment. so fingers crossed he goes bankrupt like his short-arsed friend george.

But wouldn't that make the club bankrupt too, and therefore subject to 9 points deduction and asset stripping (ie players sales) to raise funds

I'm no business man but I understand that the general way of doing things is that if a business cannot pay it's debts it's declared bankrupt and the assets sold off to pay the creditors. How is Hicks / Gillette situation different from Portsmouth or Leeds before them?

From earlier this month:

Liverpool will not lose 9 points

and from yesterday

Liverpool dismiss administration fears

So, we'll see. Go figure.

[longstebe]

Lets not forget about the international players playing for us against a division 2 side. A <deleted> joke it was. Yes its' early doors but the way Roy has gone about his team selection has been p!ss poor.

[carmine]

it doesn't really matter while we're in the state we're in as the manager will be on a hiding to nothing anyway. i believe that bloke at inter milan is pretty good though.

The same bloke who was in charge when you took on Barnsley a few years ago you mean?

Getting unstuck in the early stages of a cup competition by "lesser" opponents is nothing new of course, and the fact is most "top" managers can "boast" getting caught on that particular banana skin once or twice in their careers.

Roy is in my opinion being written off far too quickly. He should be given time. Doubtful he will be. Unlike Rafa, he doesn't seem to have the benefit of a section of the supporters constantly crying in his defence, post crap team performance: "don't blame the manager, blame the owners".

Last year it was the fault of the owners, not rafa, this year it s the fault of the manager. Go figure?

[Devil]

Complete sh*te again...This has got to be the worst football I ever witnessed as a Liverpool supporter, maybe even worse than when Souness was in charge!

No width, no discipline at the back, we cant keep possession and we don't even pressure the opposition when we loose the ball.

I think there was only Gerrard up for that, never seen such a gutless Liverpool team.

Roy clearly has got not clue. Get him out before we get relegated!

YNWA

Edited September 25, 2010 by Devil

[mrbojangles]

Roy clearly has got not clue. Get him out before we get relegated!

I've got a feeling he won't last to see the clocks go back!!

[mrbojangles]

Double post. Sh1tty t'internet today

Edited September 25, 2010 by mrbojangles

[PattayaParent]

Roy clearly has got not clue. Get him out before we get relegated!

I've got a feeling he won't last to see the clocks go back!!

But it's the owners fault isn't it? not the managers?

[LeungKen]

Complete sh*te again...This has got to be the worst football I ever witnessed as a Liverpool supporter, maybe even worse than when Souness was in charge!

No width, no discipline at the back, we cant keep possession and we don't even pressure the opposition when we loose the ball.

I think there was only Gerrard up for that, never seen such a gutless Liverpool team.

Roy clearly has got not clue. Get him out before we get relegated!

YNWA

IMHOI think you're damning Hodgeson a bit too early.

Fulham, the team Roy basically put together, is now currently 6th in the Premier League.

2 months and a minuscule transfer budget does not make a successful football team.

Plus the off-field financial woes are not conducive to a confident unit.

As a true football supporter I wish your team every success in overcoming their current financial problems and save the rivalry banter for the games themseves.

Cheers & Good Luck

P.S. As a Man United supporter I know only too well that this could easily have happened to us and still might - Perish the Thought.

[rixalex]

IMHOI think you're damning Hodgeson a bit too early.

Fulham, the team Roy basically put together, is now currently 6th in the Premier League.

2 months and a minuscule transfer budget does not make a successful football team.

Plus the off-field financial woes are not conducive to a confident unit.

As a true football supporter I wish your team every success in overcoming their current financial problems and save the rivalry banter for the games themseves.

Cheers & Good Luck

P.S. As a Man United supporter I know only too well that this could easily have happened to us and still might - Perish the Thought.

Completely agree mate.

And regards the last sentence, i think not might but will. Might not unfold in the same way, but United will inevitably go through a period of decline and when it does, it's crucial that the club has a solid base cos if not, it could find itself going into freefall, which is something that inspite of the banter, deep down i don't even wish upon our fiercest rivals - but keep that to yourselves.

[MSingh]

& i have to say, for all you Benitez Lovers, ust have a look at Inter Milan to see how they Guy is as a Manager..

He's just inherited the European Champions, the Italian Champions too & they look awful now..

& anyone who loans Victor Obinna to us, sells Balotelli, then sticks Sully Muntari up front when you need to scpre Goals to support Eto', needs their head tested..

I'll have anyone's money that Woy will win more Trophies with Inter Milan in the reign he had there than the fat Spanish Waiter will in the reign he's gonna have there..

[Devil]

& i have to say, for all you Benitez Lovers, ust have a look at Inter Milan to see how they Guy is as a Manager..

He's just inherited the European Champions, the Italian Champions too & they look awful now..

& anyone who loans Victor Obinna to us, sells Balotelli, then sticks Sully Muntari up front when you need to scpre Goals to support Eto', needs their head tested..

I'll have anyone's money that Woy will win more Trophies with Inter Milan in the reign he had there than the fat Spanish Waiter will in the reign he's gonna have there..

Rafa is long gone and I for one have nothing but praise for Rafa and what he did for us, but to be honest I couldn't give flying <deleted>*ck what he does at Inter. Also completely different era's between Roy at Inter and Rafa at Inter so not sure you can draw comparisons!

You bring up a interesting point though - Just wondering how many managers in recent history have taken over a club after the last manager who had just won the league and European Cup and gone to retain or better that? (if that makes sense) that's a genuine question by the way because I don't know. Certainly a different pressure to taking over a struggling side.

I would love to see Roy turn this team around btw, get us playing good football and and and, but I just dont see it happening with Roy in charge. And that's what worries me the most, just no hope insight!

Also good to see Gerrard is not past it as many would of have us believe! he's looked like his former self and looks right at home in the middle, I guess he could play anywhere!

Just trying to look at it all with out my Red Tinted specs

Edited September 26, 2010 by Devil

[longstebe]

Bore off with your Benitez talk He's gone, end of.

What a load of <deleted> again. I missed the last 2 goals due to me nodding off.

Theres nobody holding the ball and looking around for the pass, no width, I've also noticed the quick one touch passing around the middle of the park thats not working.

What the <deleted> is going on.

Ok breathe................. how long will it be before the team are playing the way Roy wants or is this it?

[MSingh]

Bore off with your Benitez talk He's gone, end of.

What the <deleted> is going on.

You can bore off with your Football more to the point Fella, i'd rather watch <deleted> Airdire than your lot at the moment as i'm sure most of your Fans feel too..

I write regarding Benitez in reference to the Person on this Thread who talks the most sense, except in when talkign about the fat Spanish Waiter..

You lot are like a jilted Bride, you can't even handle general debate now wihtout just brushing things off completely....

To answer your question Dev, i doubt there are many Managers who have left Club's directly after winning the CL, except Mournhho at Porto & now Inter..

& with regards to longstebe, you haven't got a clue what's going on anyway, you said so yourself so no point in even entertaining you...

[mrtoad]

Hilarious this one - before it was the owners, and The Fat Waiter (Manager) was immune, no significant changes - yet same old story, and now it's the manager. Manuel bought a lot of <deleted>, and Liverpool are now having to pay for it. Hodgson deserves a minimum of 6 months before any criticism IMO.

[mrtoad]

Rafa is long gone and I for one have nothing but praise for Rafa and what he did for us, but to be honest I couldn't give flying <deleted>*ck what he does at Inter.

I and many others that support rival Premiership clubs also hold him in high esteem - I am sure there were many others that were also hoping that he would have stayed on at Liverpool as well.

[mrtoad]

Also good to see Gerrard is not past it as many would of have us believe! he's looked like his former self and looks right at home in the middle, I guess he could play anywhere!

Yeah, he's looking good, the bastard stole my mates car.

[StevieH]

& i have to say, for all you Benitez Lovers, ust have a look at Inter Milan to see how they Guy is as a Manager..

He's just inherited the European Champions, the Italian Champions too & they look awful now..

& anyone who loans Victor Obinna to us, sells Balotelli, then sticks Sully Muntari up front when you need to scpre Goals to support Eto', needs their head tested..

I'll have anyone's money that Woy will win more Trophies with Inter Milan in the reign he had there than the fat Spanish Waiter will in the reign he's gonna have there..

and yet from just last week:

MILAN - Speaking on Inter Channel after the 4-0 thrashing of Bari, Maicon praised Benitez for his preparation of the team.

"Benitez prepared the game really well and we controlled it well," said the Brazilian. "We're doing well and we are top of the table, we're growing in confidence.

Stankovic - "In this start to the season it's important to convey the message that we are still hungry and that this is a spectacular group, Benitez included."

i don't really want to talk about rafa benitez any more as he's gone and liverpool fc is in a far worse condition following his departure. or perhaps 'removal' is a better word.

and anyone who can't look at rafa benitez objectively and accept that he's simply one of the best managers in the game today frankly doesn't know as much about football as they think they do.

[StevieH]

Hilarious this one - before it was the owners, and The Fat Waiter (Manager) was immune, no significant changes - yet same old story, and now it's the manager. Manuel bought a lot of <deleted>, and Liverpool are now having to pay for it. Hodgson deserves a minimum of 6 months before any criticism IMO.

playground level knowledge and comment there today. you're capable of better.

hodgson's so far out of his depth the fish have got lights on their noses. but he's a consequence of the malaise, not the cause. do wish he'd stop making a cock of himself in his post-mastch press conferences though.