Liverpool F.c.

[smokie36]

I hope you leave Kuyt on the bench and give your £35m man star billing for this one....King will put him in his pocket for 90 mins.

Ahh here it is ...fair warning......

[StevieH]

oh well, onwards and hopefully upwards. reported team for the massive banana skin that is brighton away:

reina

kelly carragher coates robinson

spearing lucas shelvey

maxi suarez bellamy

losing this one doesn't bear bloody thinking about.

[sharecropper]

I would be interested to know, game for game so far, are Liverpool doing better under Prince Kenny with all that outrageously expensive talent, or under Dear Old Roy, with his cheapo squad, just out of interest.

[smokie36]

oh well, onwards and hopefully upwards. reported team for the massive banana skin that is brighton away:

reina

kelly carragher coates robinson

spearing lucas shelvey

maxi suarez bellamy

losing this one doesn't bear bloody thinking about.

Thought you deserved the win and at 2-1 was about right.

Brighton had their chances in the second half and I reckon you defended too deeply at times. Carragher was his usual commanding self at the back and saved your side some embarrassment.

[carmine]

oh well, onwards and hopefully upwards. reported team for the massive banana skin that is brighton away:

reina

kelly carragher coates robinson

spearing lucas shelvey

maxi suarez bellamy

losing this one doesn't bear bloody thinking about.

Thought you deserved the win and at 2-1 was about right.

Brighton had their chances in the second half and I reckon you defended too deeply at times. Carragher was his usual commanding self at the back and saved your side some embarrassment.

i did'nt see the game but if Carragher was good smokie it sounds like his first good game of the season. I've always like him as a loyal one club pro and very decent player but with age he's becoming a liability with no pace and some desperate tackles.

[smokie36]

oh well, onwards and hopefully upwards. reported team for the massive banana skin that is brighton away:

reina

kelly carragher coates robinson

spearing lucas shelvey

maxi suarez bellamy

losing this one doesn't bear bloody thinking about.

Thought you deserved the win and at 2-1 was about right.

Brighton had their chances in the second half and I reckon you defended too deeply at times. Carragher was his usual commanding self at the back and saved your side some embarrassment.

i did'nt see the game but if Carragher was good smokie it sounds like his first good game of the season. I've always like him as a loyal one club pro and very decent player but with age he's becoming a liability with no pace and some desperate tackles.

He was my man of the match last night. Not seen much more of him this season though....you're right about his age I suppose but a cracking defender...well against Championship opposition at least.

[StevieH]

oh well, onwards and hopefully upwards. reported team for the massive banana skin that is brighton away:

reina

kelly carragher coates robinson

spearing lucas shelvey

maxi suarez bellamy

losing this one doesn't bear bloody thinking about.

Thought you deserved the win and at 2-1 was about right.

Brighton had their chances in the second half and I reckon you defended too deeply at times. Carragher was his usual commanding self at the back and saved your side some embarrassment.

i did'nt see the game but if Carragher was good smokie it sounds like his first good game of the season. I've always like him as a loyal one club pro and very decent player but with age he's becoming a liability with no pace and some desperate tackles.

He was my man of the match last night. Not seen much more of him this season though....you're right about his age I suppose but a cracking defender...well against Championship opposition at least.

thought bellamy was probably our best performer last night. maxi had a good first half too, but went quieter in the second as everyone did really.

carragher's legs are going badly now and he was never the quickest anyway. still reads the game well and is still a good organiser but at some point soon we're going to have to start phasing him out. same way we had to with sami hyypia really.

[carmine]

oh well, onwards and hopefully upwards. reported team for the massive banana skin that is brighton away:

reina

kelly carragher coates robinson

spearing lucas shelvey

maxi suarez bellamy

losing this one doesn't bear bloody thinking about.

Thought you deserved the win and at 2-1 was about right.

Brighton had their chances in the second half and I reckon you defended too deeply at times. Carragher was his usual commanding self at the back and saved your side some embarrassment.

i did'nt see the game but if Carragher was good smokie it sounds like his first good game of the season. I've always like him as a loyal one club pro and very decent player but with age he's becoming a liability with no pace and some desperate tackles.

He was my man of the match last night. Not seen much more of him this season though....you're right about his age I suppose but a cracking defender...well against Championship opposition at least.

They don't want to talk football on here anymore unless it's just after the've beaten mighty Bolton and challenging for the top three.

[StevieH]

They don't want to talk football on here anymore unless it's just after the've beaten mighty Bolton and challenging for the top three.

eh?

[carmine]

They don't want to talk football on here anymore unless it's just after the've beaten mighty Bolton and challenging for the top three.

eh?

I am hoping to coax dev into answering my earlier question but its a forlorn hope. Thought his response toabraks earlier post was ridiculous thats all.

Anyway, seeing as you are back, i've been reading about reds being rather upset about the sale of Meireles. I must say i thought he was a good player but was he ever vital to the team?

I also think the only real problem from last weekend was a quick fix discipline issue and a better understanding upfront. No that good performance sure, but no big dramas. How did you see it?

[StevieH]

I am hoping to coax dev into answering my earlier question but its a forlorn hope. Thought his response toabraks earlier post was ridiculous thats all.

Anyway, seeing as you are back, i've been reading about reds being rather upset about the sale of Meireles. I must say i thought he was a good player but was he ever vital to the team?

I also think the only real problem from last weekend was a quick fix discipline issue and a better understanding upfront. No that good performance sure, but no big dramas. How did you see it?

where've you been reading that? yeah some think it was poor business by the club but what were we to do really? player wanted out, slapped in a transfer request at 10.30pm on the last day of the transfer window, kenny didn't really fancy him and he simply wouldn't have played that much this season. he was alright and we would probably prefer to have kept him rather than strengthen a rival but he was never what you'd call 'vital'.

we were a dog's dinner in every conceivable way at the weekend and i have to hope it was just an anomaly and a proper one-off. tactics were wrong from the start, selection was wrong and we simply played into spurs' hands. i do though worry that charlie adam is not up to playing against top teams who press you and who move the ball quickly. he's too slow and cumbersome. he'll probably do ok against wolves at home at the weekend but against the better sides i'm concerned.

[MrRed]

" tactics were wrong from the start, selection was wrong and we simply played into spurs' hands."

So Stevie you are saying it was Kennys bad management originally and then the players bad discipline.

Said just what you stated about Adams when you signed him,simply not good enough for you especially when Gerrard's back.

Dalglish got it wrong bigtime,Dirk Kuyt seems to be the one he doesn't like but he should of played him instead of Oh Carol at the weekend.......correct?

[StevieH]

i think kenny got it wrong on sunday yeah. skrtel at right back was a bad call and carroll shouldn't have started unless we were planning on getting the ball into him early and getting up to support him. i'd have started kuyt and bellamy or perhaps maxi in the wide positions with suarez up top.

what was most annoying was the lack of changes during the match when it became clear that we were being overrun. though after adam's rush of blood it was always going to be game over really. credit must go to spurs too, they played well.

[Abrak]

Talking of Carragher, here is quite an interesting article about Carragher's tendency to 'hoof'.

Actually the most interesting data I think is the data on Reina's 'distribution'. He hoofs 50% more often than Carragher and with a much lower completion rate - 38% v 48%. This sort of completion rate is spectacularly low. Imagine if you just closed your eyes and kicked the ball up the pitch you are not going to end up with a completion rate of 20% as that would imply you are very accurate at picking the opposition players.

Also it is weird that his hoof percentage has increased from 83% to 95% during last season which means the number of short passes he made has fallen from 17% to 5%. Carragher has a hoof percentage of 42%.

http://tomkinstimes.com/2011/09/the-whole-hoof-and-nothing-but-the-hoof/

[StevieH]

in complete contrast to abrak's very serious post, here is the best new banner for a while:

[MrRed]

Good banner and very true,lets see if kenny plays him tomorrow or do you think he will stick with Oh Carol for his height again?

I hope to see Gerrard back will give Henderson a boost to be paired up in the middle with him.

I think a big home win for you whoever plays.

[carmine]

Good banner and very true,lets see if kenny plays him tomorrow or do you think he will stick with Oh Carol for his height again?

I hope to see Gerrard back will give Henderson a boost to be paired up in the middle with him.

I think a big home win for you whoever plays.

i don't think the midfield is doing Carroll any favours. He's a big presense yes, but pumping the ball up to him isn/working. he can certainly hit the ball though but we don't see enough of that.

[StevieH]

Good banner and very true,lets see if kenny plays him tomorrow or do you think he will stick with Oh Carol for his height again?

I hope to see Gerrard back will give Henderson a boost to be paired up in the middle with him.

I think a big home win for you whoever plays.

there's a good parallel to be drawn between carroll and someone like dzeko who looked a proper yard dog last season because he was still getting used to new teammates and a new playing system. carroll is still adjusting to the same things and has been injured and not fully fit along the way. however wolves at home is one of those matches he should be playing really. it's also about how suarez adjusts to carroll - luis is used to being the main front man rather than playing off a taller central lad so it's a case of time mostly.

gerrard won't start tomorrow. not ready yet. slowly slowly with him after so long out.

[Devil]

Good banner and very true,lets see if kenny plays him tomorrow or do you think he will stick with Oh Carol for his height again?

I hope to see Gerrard back will give Henderson a boost to be paired up in the middle with him.

I think a big home win for you whoever plays.

there's a good parallel to be drawn between carroll and someone like dzeko who looked a proper yard dog last season because he was still getting used to new teammates and a new playing system. carroll is still adjusting to the same things and has been injured and not fully fit along the way. however wolves at home is one of those matches he should be playing really. it's also about how suarez adjusts to carroll - luis is used to being the main front man rather than playing off a taller central lad so it's a case of time mostly.

gerrard won't start tomorrow. not ready yet. slowly slowly with him after so long out.

Good point Stevie, your point will fall on deaf ears on this thread as it makes far too much sense... unless its backed up by stats

[StevieH]

Good point Stevie, your point will fall on deaf ears on this thread as it makes far too much sense... unless its backed up by stats

it's pretty easy to make these points about carroll though dev, mainly because anyone that thinks that kenny dalglish, steve clarke and john w henry are idiots is, well, an idiot.

carroll's got loads of ability and he'll come good. we overpaid for him yeah, but since when has price tag been a logical element of a discussion about a footballer's actual talent?

[carmine]

Good banner and very true,lets see if kenny plays him tomorrow or do you think he will stick with Oh Carol for his height again?

I hope to see Gerrard back will give Henderson a boost to be paired up in the middle with him.

I think a big home win for you whoever plays.

there's a good parallel to be drawn between carroll and someone like dzeko who looked a proper yard dog last season because he was still getting used to new teammates and a new playing system. carroll is still adjusting to the same things and has been injured and not fully fit along the way. however wolves at home is one of those matches he should be playing really. it's also about how suarez adjusts to carroll - luis is used to being the main front man rather than playing off a taller central lad so it's a case of time mostly.

gerrard won't start tomorrow. not ready yet. slowly slowly with him after so long out.

Good point Stevie, your point will fall on deaf ears on this thread as it makes far too much sense... unless its backed up by stats

What on earth are you talkiing about? At the end of the day if he comes good, which he might well do, the stats will look good won't they because the stats don't lie do they. His stats right now are poor because frankly, so far, he's been poor. Or does that make far too much sense?

Its easy isn't it to rubbish peoples opinions when you don't bother to back it up with rational explanations.

Edited September 24, 2011 by carmine

[MrRed]

Good banner and very true,lets see if kenny plays him tomorrow or do you think he will stick with Oh Carol for his height again?

I hope to see Gerrard back will give Henderson a boost to be paired up in the middle with him.

I think a big home win for you whoever plays.

there's a good parallel to be drawn between carroll and someone like dzeko who looked a proper yard dog last season because he was still getting used to new teammates and a new playing system. carroll is still adjusting to the same things and has been injured and not fully fit along the way. however wolves at home is one of those matches he should be playing really. it's also about how suarez adjusts to carroll - luis is used to being the main front man rather than playing off a taller central lad so it's a case of time mostly.

gerrard won't start tomorrow. not ready yet. slowly slowly with him after so long out.

I think you and most other Liverpool fans deep down know he is not up to it at the top level.what has Carroll got to adjust to? he is English playing in a better team than he has done in his life and is an old fasioned centre forward! He has not got the technical ability to be a different player,i think he will reach the hieghts of Peter Crouch and nothing more.

Gerrard not start? you need him!

[rixalex]

it's pretty easy to make these points about carroll though dev, mainly because anyone that thinks that kenny dalglish, steve clarke and john w henry are idiots is, well, an idiot.

carroll's got loads of ability and he'll come good. we overpaid for him yeah, but since when has price tag been a logical element of a discussion about a footballer's actual talent?

Clarke may not be an idiot, but he's always come across as a bit of a knob to me. Probably to do with all those years, arm in arm with the likes of Terry.

[carmine]

Good point Stevie, your point will fall on deaf ears on this thread as it makes far too much sense... unless its backed up by stats

it's pretty easy to make these points about carroll though dev, mainly because anyone that thinks that kenny dalglish, steve clarke and john w henry are idiots is, well, an idiot.

carroll's got loads of ability and he'll come good. we overpaid for him yeah, but since when has price tag been a logical element of a discussion about a footballer's actual talent?

Much of the problem with Carroll is that people are judging him as a 35m player which he's not. So basically expectations on the part of many people are unrealistic. secondly. he's been absent a fair bit through injuries and i really don't think they have worked out how best to play him yet. The crucial thing for me is how good an understanding he can build with Suarez.

My view is that he will turn out to be a decent player in time but the purchase price was a sickening waste of money and is probably not helping him one bit

[rixalex]

i think he will reach the hieghts of Peter Crouch and nothing more.

They are both lanky bar stewards.

[rixalex]

My view is that he will turn out to be a decent player in time but the purchase price was a sickening waste of money and is probably not helping him one bit

Morning Carmine.

Not quite sure how can you be "sickened" by money being wasted when it's not your club doing the wasting. My feeling is more along the lines of "tickled".

That aside, i do think he'll come good (not great), eventually, a bit like Torres, but it all depends on how much patience the respective managers have to keep playing them. Perhaps this is where their transfer fees work in their favour. Managers can't afford not to play them, to some degree anyway.

[carmine]

My view is that he will turn out to be a decent player in time but the purchase price was a sickening waste of money and is probably not helping him one bit

Morning Carmine.

Not quite sure how can you be "sickened" by money being wasted when it's not your club doing the wasting. My feeling is more along the lines of "tickled".

That aside, i do think he'll come good (not great), eventually, a bit like Torres, but it all depends on how much patience the respective managers have to keep playing them. Perhaps this is where their transfer fees work in their favour. Managers can't afford not to play them, to some degree anyway.

And a very good morning to you.

All the 35m has done is raise people expectations to unrealistic levels. I just think he'll turn out to be a decent player. He'll never set the world alight but he has the physical presense to be a handful for defenses and as i said before he can really hit a ball. I'm bored of the 35m talk, whats done is done, but realistically that sum should have bought Carroll and Henderson. i don't like to see any money wasted but thats probably the Spurs fan in me!

Edited September 24, 2011 by carmine

[rixalex]

i don't like to see any money wasted but thats probably the Spurs fan in me!

If that's the way Spurs fans think, i can understand now why Smokie became one!

[carmine]

i don't like to see any money wasted but thats probably the Spurs fan in me!

If that's the way Spurs fans think, i can understand now why Smokie became one!

He's as tight as two coats of paint!!

[sharecropper]

it's pretty easy to make these points about carroll though dev, mainly because anyone that thinks that kenny dalglish, steve clarke and john w henry are idiots is, well, an idiot.

I love the slavish adherence to the collective wisdom of that lot on this board.

But sign me and probably the whole world up (excluding Liverpool fans), because I think they are idiots in the Carthorse Carroll context.