Scrap Flood Plan, Academics Tell Thai Govt

[webfact]

Scrap flood plan, academics tell govt
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- A group of academics and NGOs yesterday called for the government to scrap its national strategy for water and flood management, saying it would drain the state budget, wash out local people's lives and open the valves to massive corruption.

"The plan to borrow Bt350 billion for water management would cause severe damage to the country," the group said in a statement.

The master plan of the Office of the National Water and Flood Management Policy should be replaced by the Chao Phraya basin management plan proposed by the Japan International Cooperation Agency, which would save some 70 per cent of the cost.

The terms of reference for the projects under the master plan were riddled with loopholes that could lead to a flood of graft, said the statement presented by Sasin Chalermlarp, secretary-general of the Sueb Nakhasathien Foundation.

The foundation, together with a network of academics, the Foundation for Integrated Water Management, ThaiFlood.com and Rangsit University held a seminar on "exposing corruption in the plan to expropriate land under the Bt350 billion + Bt200 billion worth of water management projects".

The statement raised six suspicious points:

-The master plan lacked public participation, an environment impact assessment and a health impact assessment;

-The nine operating modules lacked details on timeframes and how they would be integrated;

-The responsibilities of government agencies, such as the Irrigation Department and Water Resources Department, were unclear;

-Following the 2011 flood crisis, certain modules need not to be rushed, such as the Bt100 billion floodway module;

-Parts of the budget for compensating the 2011 flood victims might be transferred to projects under the master plan, creating avenues for corruption;

-The scale of operations under the nine modules may ruin the lives of local people.

-- The Nation 2013-04-29

[Robby nz]

open the valves to massive corruption.

That's what its meant to do mate

[bigbamboo]

Too late. I suspect the money has already been divied up.

[Locationthailand]

Spend 350M Baht or save 70% of that cost by using J.I.C.A.'s plan. Hmmm - the govt will go with the 350M to be sure. Place your bets folks... step right up.

[whybother]

Spend 350M Baht or save 70% of that cost by using J.I.C.A.'s plan. Hmmm - the govt will go with the 350M to be sure. Place your bets folks... step right up.

Billion

[slapout]

If anyone thinks this government would even consider taking advice from local academics, they are ignoring the Thai system of self entitlement.

Every single program proposed/implemented by this group have been questioned as to those handling it, as well as the overall benifit for the population vs cost. Its is still full speed ahead, with a mindset of, "its mine to do/take" and it shall be done, one way or another.

The vast amounts involved that are unaccounted for, will never be used for any purpose, other than self benifet by a few, while denying so many of what is due them.

[virtualtraveller]

You don't get it. It's supposed to have loopholes for corruption, that's the whole point, otherwise why bother.

[WhizBang]

saying it would drain the state budget, wash out local people's lives and open the valves to massive corruption.

I thought that was the number one goal.

Next.

[yourauntbob]

We needed academics to tell us this?

[Halion]

Probably the most sensible and correct article ever given on this forum as it touches on all the relevant issues. Gross Incompotence, stupidity and monumental self serving corruption.

[seajae]

come on, they will do whatever puts more money in their pockets, screw the people, all they care about is how much money they make while in govt. Thailand, hub of the rip offs.

[maidu]

Officials need to buy my special black boxes which will hex the Rain Gods to go easy on Bangkok. It comes with dead white chicken and enough special hex powder to last 5 years. I sell them for 2.4 million baht each. Note: if you don't do the proper incantation, it may not work. Instruction booklet included.

[saltandpepper]

This plan will be scrapped anyway, but NOT before the lion share has been duly taken.

[tomross46]

If anyone thinks this government would even consider taking advice from local academics, they are ignoring the Thai system of self entitlement.

Every single program proposed/implemented by this group have been questioned as to those handling it, as well as the overall benifit for the population vs cost. Its is still full speed ahead, with a mindset of, "its mine to do/take" and it shall be done, one way or another.

The vast amounts involved that are unaccounted for, will never be used for any purpose, other than self benifet by a few, while denying so many of what is due them.

It all depends,

if the academics agree with the government,

than spit up the money and give the academics some also,

else the academical are wrong.

Simple Basic Computer code

[lineofentry]

At least the corruption here is out in the open for all to see, 'honest corruption' if you like. Whereas in the UK, for example, the corruption is underhand, sneaky and disguised even quasi legal. This 'advanced corruption' comes from 900 years of practice.

[belg]

with every hi and low so buying their degree instead of earning it, who would want to listen to the inflated opinion of "scholar x" or "uni professor y" if all what they are worth is the piece of paper, which proved that they got a title, merit or not

[lee b]

corruption on the way me thinks

[Markaew]

How did the academics get into the loop? They are too busy screwing up the education system.

[MaxLee]

How did the academics get into the loop? They are too busy screwing up the education system.

It's very easy to copy and paste the existing and obvious information from International English language websites, without any references and present it to any International based newspaper like the Nation or Bangkok post, in order to create a public international image, "AS IF they know and are considered Experts"

The reality however is that most of those academics are nothing else than cheaters themselves who have bought themselves the degrees with blood money, and are big parts of Thailand's Education Propaganda-brainwashing system....

[scorecard]

come on, they will do whatever puts more money in their pockets, screw the people, all they care about is how much money they make while in govt. Thailand, hub of the rip offs.

Why else did they pay their deposits to join the 'Get Rich Quick Club'?

[rametindallas]

'The terms of reference for the projects under the master plan were riddled with loopholes that could lead to a flood of graft,' The government puts 80% effort into how to bleed off money and 20% effort how to protect from floods. With that in mind, their Master Plan is a Masterpiece.

[rametindallas]

At least the corruption here is out in the open for all to see, 'honest corruption' if you like. Whereas in the UK, for example, the corruption is underhand, sneaky and disguised even quasi legal. This 'advanced corruption' comes from 900 years of practice.

The same in the U.S. The Thais are amateurs at corruption compared to the U.S. politicians; that's why it is so entertaining to watch them. The Thais are sooooo obvious. It comes from the culture that says you can't challenge anyone directly so then the 'unchalenged' thinks he is fooling everyone.

[waza]

Seems like anyone with half a brain can see this flood project is just a ruse to corrupt more public money and will provide ineffectual methods of flood mitigation.

However, the PTP see it as a very clever machination to achieve their goals

[jackspratt]

What an opening for some of TV's finest anti-intellectual minds - a thread that combines the opportunity to agree with the message, but attack the messenger.

[wiyada]

Officials need to buy my special black boxes which will hex the Rain Gods to go easy on Bangkok. It comes with dead white chicken and enough special hex powder to last 5 years. I sell them for 2.4 million baht each. Note: if you don't do the proper incantation, it may not work. Instruction booklet included.

Where can I buy one or a few hundred, I maybe able to sell them on for considerably more I don't need to test them as the instruction booklet will be the key to explaining any faults they may develop

[DeepInTheForest]

If anyone thinks this government would even consider taking advice from local academics, they are ignoring the Thai system of self entitlement.

Every single program proposed/implemented by this group have been questioned as to those handling it, as well as the overall benifit for the population vs cost. Its is still full speed ahead, with a mindset of, "its mine to do/take" and it shall be done, one way or another.

The vast amounts involved that are unaccounted for, will never be used for any purpose, other than self benifet by a few, while denying so many of what is due them.

It all depends,

if the academics agree with the government,

than spit up the money and give the academics some also,

else the academical are wrong.

Simple Basic Computer code

I think that your post points out something worth noting. The academics are voicing positions contrary to the official version of things, which at least in the short term will bring them no advantage.

If they are doing this because their reservations are motivated by sincere truth-seeking (as at least appears to be the case), kudos to them. They have thus performed a service to the public, and should be given credit.

Needless to say, this dialectic give-and-take is essential to the democratic process.

Note that the criticism came not from one corner, but from several different organizations. And the criticisms were specific-- lack of public participation (which would seem to doom any plans from the get-go), lack of an environmental review (de rigeur in this day and age), and lack of consideration of the impacts on local people.

Thoughtful readers may wish to focus on those specifics, instead of political carping. How could a flood plan be improved? What is a realistic time frame? (Flood season will return in less than 12 months.) What would public participation look like? What would readers like to see? What would be fair to people who may otherwise be marginalized?

[GentlemanJim]

I find it funny that in Thailand they need a bunch of academics to come out with these pearls of wisdom, when on Thai Visa, we chew the fat about this stuff everyday of the week! Then again, I guess I am an academic like most of you...I have a PhD in Hindsight!

[maidu]

Get ready for Thaksin's new "Stay Dry Elite Card" for farang only. Only 3 million baht, and you get a square meter of Thai property in the delta added for free!

[ResX]

That is about right. Development of efficient water management is manay times more important than the planned water management projects. You know how much to have to invest to improve water management if you know how good to can make use the current structures to serve your purpose. Not before that.

[ResX]

If anyone thinks this government would even consider taking advice from local academics, they are ignoring the Thai system of self entitlement.

Every single program proposed/implemented by this group have been questioned as to those handling it, as well as the overall benifit for the population vs cost. Its is still full speed ahead, with a mindset of, "its mine to do/take" and it shall be done, one way or another.

The vast amounts involved that are unaccounted for, will never be used for any purpose, other than self benifet by a few, while denying so many of what is due them.

It all depends,

if the academics agree with the government,

than spit up the money and give the academics some also,

else the academical are wrong.

Simple Basic Computer code

I think that your post points out something worth noting. The academics are voicing positions contrary to the official version of things, which at least in the short term will bring them no advantage.

If they are doing this because their reservations are motivated by sincere truth-seeking (as at least appears to be the case), kudos to them. They have thus performed a service to the public, and should be given credit.

Needless to say, this dialectic give-and-take is essential to the democratic process.

Note that the criticism came not from one corner, but from several different organizations. And the criticisms were specific-- lack of public participation (which would seem to doom any plans from the get-go), lack of an environmental review (de rigeur in this day and age), and lack of consideration of the impacts on local people.

Thoughtful readers may wish to focus on those specifics, instead of political carping. How could a flood plan be improved? What is a realistic time frame? (Flood season will return in less than 12 months.) What would public participation look like? What would readers like to see? What would be fair to people who may otherwise be marginalized?

Draw down the current flood control dams for the entire Chao Pharaya. Ensure that the total water retention capacity to be at at least 10 billion cubic meters by 31st Sept. Control the water release (although not as simple as it appears to be), if required, in the case early than expected floods strike. You have to have at least 10 billion cubic meters water retention capacity prior to flood season in Oct-Nov.

If you are done, you can cut down the flood with the size of 2011 by at least 70%. By the same time the risk of going through the 2014 without sufficient water for everybody is kept below 2%. The worst case scenario is the farmers will get less yield in the case of extreme drought lower that 2% return probability strikes. The risk that there is no water for the domestic water supply is essentially zero.

The proposed strategy above may not be the best for Thailand, but I can assure you it is vastly better than the way it was done in 2011. If Thailand authorities are still not clear what to do, then they better try this.

The ultimate outcome is, the risk of major floods will be kept below 5% or less than 1 in 20 years.

The new flood control structures, don't matter how big and expensive they are will not able to change anything if fundamental of water management and flood control are not fully understood. What I have provided here are a few elements of water management.

Edited May 3, 2013 by ResX