Tuk Tuks And Taxis In Phuket. A Different Perspective

[IrishIvan]

I actually had to catch a Tuk Tuk from Patong today and I will share my experience. I got chatting to this man named Chai, I sat in the front and asked him to turn his boom box down to zero. I have always been a bit wary of these guys. Previously I thought they were greedy bastards.

His history is simple. He is a southern Thai guy, that is married to a southern Thai woman, she works for a government department in Phuket town. Her income is 15000 baht a month, his is between 20000 -25000 on average throughout the year. Together they have a combined total of 40000baht. After taking out their rent, utilities, school fees, car repayments and the rest they are left with about 5000 baht a month. What struck home most with me was when he said. “take me back 5 years when all the tourists were from Australia and the UK I liked it better then”. I asked why and he replied “Well all the Russian, Korean and Chines tour agents are taking my business, before I could make 30000 baht a month. Phuket is not cheap and now I have to compete with foreigners in my own country, I am happy if Russian and other Asian people come to Phuket but I get angry when I see shops and restaurants closed and foreigners working” I asked him if he thought his prices from Patong to Rawaii were expensive in a taxi or tuk tuk. He said “Is 500 baht expensive for you” I answered honestly that it wasn’t. He then went on to explain many Australians and Europeans liked his green tuk tuk. The boom box cost him 100000 baht, plus his licence fees and everything else its very expensive. What he did say was that only farangs that lived in Thailand complained about the prices. Not so many tourists complained and he takes them to all the good nightclubs in his pimped out tuk tuk, and lets them drink beer and party all night, and waits for them for hours and then drives them home.

He also has to deal with all the territorial disputes in Phuket. More often than not its old family rivalry. For me its a hard way to earn a living

For me I actually sympathized with this man.

[NamKangMan]

"For me I actually sympathized with this man." - For me, sympathy for this man is ZERO.

What foreigners does he think he is competing with? The package holiday tourists, Russian and Chinese, organise coach buses, due to the overpriced tuk-tuk.

He, along with other drivers, and the "association" - better known as the cartel / mafia, have priced themselves out of the transport market.

I would have asked him if he thought he could make more money driving around like a hop-on / hop-off baht bus, like in Pattaya. It's obviously successful in Pattaya. Why not here?

I also would have replied to his, "Is 500 baht expensive for you" question with - "No, but I can rent a motorbike for 24 hours for 200 baht. Do you think people will pay your 500 baht, or hire a motorbike? You charge 500 baht to Rawai and 500 baht back to Patong. That's 1000 baht. I can rent a motorbike, ride to Rawai, rent a guest house room for the night for 500 baht, go out drinking, and ride back to Patong the next day, and the cost is only 700 baht. I save 300 baht." I would have like to hear is reply to that.

Look at his salary. Many Thai university graduates do not earn what he earns and he has no tertiary education.

They only have themselves to blame for loss of income, bought about by their poor reputation and ridiculous high pricing under a system that offers them protection and guarantees no competition to them on the island.

I hope you don't listen to the bar girls sob stories as you did with this tuk-tuk driver. Next thing you know, you will be sending money to him for "sick tuk-tuk." :)

[falkan]

20-25k a month what kind of education does this tuk tukk guys have? = zero he should be making 10k not more then a fresh student out from Chula..

[phuketjock]

Irishivan I find it quite incredible that you fell for such an obvious bunch of hogwash, these guys are

at the very least criminals whose greed is killing and destroying their own livelihood, they have no one

to blame but themselves.

[NomadJoe]

There are a great many tuk tuk drivers in Phuket that are really good guys. One of the drivers for the dive shop I used to work for is one now, and he was a super nice guy. And 25,000B is a lot for a Thai actually, especially for a job requiring no education

What you forgot to ask him, Ivan, is whether he owned his tuk tuk or rented from someone, or was hired to drive it for the owner. Very few are driven by the owners. The way it works is, the original tuk tuk drivers made so much money that they bought a bunch of tuk tuks and hired drivers or rented them out. Eventually the next generation of drivers made enough money that they bought a bunch and rented them out, etc etc. These original few are the ones that own dozens of tuk tuks and are filthy rich now. (See Mayor of Patong and his son, the President of the Patong Tuk Tuk federation)

When I did the same thing you did 4-5 years ago, the driver, this one of the Kata Karon tuk tuk co-op, was also seemed a nice enough chap. He said that he makes 50,000B mo in the high season and no less than 20,000B in the low season. He also said that the Kata Karon group was better o organized than Patong, and their numbers kept lower so less competition and higher fares. At the time is was 400B Kata to Patong, but 300B from Patong to Kata.

Look at these price lists for Phuket tuk tuks, then look at the ones from other regions of Thailand. Granted Bangkok tuk tuks are converted motorcycles and Phuket tuk tuks are little trucks, but HatYai tuk tuks are the same little trucks. Still. the difference in price is staggering. And don't forget, Pattaya songthaews are 10B and tilac rides for free!

Other parts of Thailand. See just how badly we're getting ripped off:

Edited May 8, 2013 by NomadJoe

[IrishIvan]

"For me I actually sympathized with this man." - For me, sympathy for this man is ZERO.

What foreigners does he think he is competing with? The package holiday tourists, Russian and Chinese, organise coach buses, due to the overpriced tuk-tuk.

He, along with other drivers, and the "association" - better known as the cartel / mafia, have priced themselves out of the transport market.

I would have asked him if he thought he could make more money driving around like a hop-on / hop-off baht bus, like in Pattaya. It's obviously successful in Pattaya. Why not here?

I also would have replied to his, "Is 500 baht expensive for you" question with - "No, but I can rent a motorbike for 24 hours for 200 baht. Do you think people will pay your 500 baht, or hire a motorbike? You charge 500 baht to Rawai and 500 baht back to Patong. That's 1000 baht. I can rent a motorbike, ride to Rawai, rent a guest house room for the night for 500 baht, go out drinking, and ride back to Patong the next day, and the cost is only 700 baht. I save 300 baht." I would have like to hear is reply to that.

Look at his salary. Many Thai university graduates do not earn what he earns and he has no tertiary education.

They only have themselves to blame for loss of income, bought about by their poor reputation and ridiculous high pricing under a system that offers them protection and guarantees no competition to them on the island.

I hope you don't listen to the bar girls sob stories as you did with this tuk-tuk driver. Next thing you know, you will be sending money to him for "sick tuk-tuk." :)

I chose to use a tuk tuk because I got a lift to Patong and would have had to wait an hour for a lift back. Plus I was in no state to drive, even by my standards.

In the Northern Territory where I am based now that fare would have cost me $50. Yes I can rent a car for $30 a day there. Same same but different

I dont have a tertiary education but I earn more than most westerners, by working on rigs and supply vessels. Bargirls earn more money than most other professionals too but its a short term career. Same as in a western country. The women working in the worlds oldest profession earn more than someone with a doctorate from Cambridge.

[IrishIvan]

20-25k a month what kind of education does this tuk tukk guys have? = zero he should be making 10k not more then a fresh student out from Chula..

Free markets dictate wages not Thai visa

[IrishIvan]

There are a great many tuk tuk drivers in Phuket that are really good guys. One of the drivers for the dive shop I used to work for is one now, and he was a super nice guy. And 25,000B is a lot for a Thai actually, especially for a job requiring no education

What you forgot to ask him, Ivan, is whether he owned his tuk tuk or rented from someone, or was hired to drive it for the owner. Very few are driven by the owners. The way it works is, the original tuk tuk drivers made so much money that they bought a bunch of tuk tuks and hired drivers or rented them out. Eventually the next generation of drivers made enough money that they bought a bunch and rented them out, etc etc. These original few are the ones that own dozens of tuk tuks and are filthy rich now. (See Mayor of Patong and his son, the President of the Patong Tuk Tuk federation)

When I did the same thing you did 4-5 years ago, the driver, this one of the Kata Karon tuk tuk co-op, was also seemed a nice enough chap. He said that he makes 50,000B mo in the high season and no less than 20,000B in the low season. He also said that the Kata Karon group was better o organized than Patong, and their numbers kept lower so less competition and higher fares. At the time is was 400B Kata to Patong, but 300B from Patong to Kata.

Look at these price lists for Phuket tuk tuks, then look at the ones from other regions of Thailand. Granted Bangkok tuk tuks are converted motorcycles and Phuket tuk tuks are little trucks, but HatYai tuk tuks are the same little trucks. Still. the difference in price is staggering. And don't forget, Pattaya songthaews are 10B and tilac rides for free!

Other parts of Thailand. See just how badly we're getting ripped off:

I have been to other parts of Thailand before and seen the differences. But these guys are not having to compete with foreigners in Pattaya and Bangkok.

Its all about choice. Dont take taxis or tuk tuks if you think they are overpriced.

[hansgruber]

The yellow sticker Honda civics with 20 inch wheels don't grow on trees. How else they going to pay the finance.

Let them make their money because it won't last forever.

Edited May 9, 2013 by hansgruber

[Sharp]

I actually had to catch a Tuk Tuk from Patong today and I will share my experience. I got chatting to this man named Chai, I sat in the front and asked him to turn his boom box down to zero. I have always been a bit wary of these guys. Previously I thought they were greedy bastards.

His history is simple. He is a southern Thai guy, that is married to a southern Thai woman, she works for a government department in Phuket town. Her income is 15000 baht a month, his is between 20000 -25000 on average throughout the year. Together they have a combined total of 40000baht. After taking out their rent, utilities, school fees, car repayments and the rest they are left with about 5000 baht a month. What struck home most with me was when he said. “take me back 5 years when all the tourists were from Australia and the UK I liked it better then”. I asked why and he replied “Well all the Russian, Korean and Chines tour agents are taking my business, before I could make 30000 baht a month. Phuket is not cheap and now I have to compete with foreigners in my own country, I am happy if Russian and other Asian people come to Phuket but I get angry when I see shops and restaurants closed and foreigners working” I asked him if he thought his prices from Patong to Rawaii were expensive in a taxi or tuk tuk. He said “Is 500 baht expensive for you” I answered honestly that it wasn’t. He then went on to explain many Australians and Europeans liked his green tuk tuk. The boom box cost him 100000 baht, plus his licence fees and everything else its very expensive. What he did say was that only farangs that lived in Thailand complained about the prices. Not so many tourists complained and he takes them to all the good nightclubs in his pimped out tuk tuk, and lets them drink beer and party all night, and waits for them for hours and then drives them home.

He also has to deal with all the territorial disputes in Phuket. More often than not its old family rivalry. For me its a hard way to earn a living

For me I actually sympathized with this man.

Your joking .....right !!!!!!!

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[eezergood]

Is his 100k boom box a necessity? should it be financed by the tourists so he can make face?

[eezergood]

Fair play to you for coming out & stating your views & thoughts, as you are right to do so!

[JetsetBkk]

20-25k a month what kind of education does this tuk tukk guys have? = zero he should be making 10k not more then a fresh student out from Chula..

Free markets dictate wages not Thai visa

You think this is a "free market"!

Oh, Ivan, where have you been?

[JetsetBkk]

I chose to use a tuk tuk because I got a lift to Patong and would have had to wait an hour for a lift back... <snip>

...because there aren't any meter taxis roaming the streets like there are in Bangkok!

Why do you think that is?

Hint: mafia, cartel...

[hansgruber]

Is his 100k boom box a necessity? should it be financed by the tourists so he can make face?

Yes. I pretty sure that's how it works.

[stevenl]

Is his 100k boom box a necessity? should it be financed by the tourists so he can make face?

Yes. I pretty sure that's how it works.

Yes, and so is the tuktuk itself.

[Roel]

The tourists do not complain about the fares, the expats do. Well next time IrishIvan you tell your new found tuk tuk driver friend that the tourists DO complain. ALL THE TIME. To me, as a hotel manager. Maybe not directly to your friend because they read the stories about people getting beaten up after disputes with tuk tuk drivers.

I understand that there is a difference between places as Had Yai and Nongkhai compared to a tourist destination as Phuket. Operation costs and personal cost of living will be higher for drivers in Phuket thus justifying higher fares TO A CERTAIN EXTENT. But not to THIS extent.

[KarenBravo]

Different perspective? Yup.

Wrong perspective? Yup.

[iSabai]

20-25k a month what kind of education does this tuk tukk guys have? = zero he should be making 10k not more then a fresh student out from Chula..

How elitist of you. Makes me wonder what people would think if some tourists and non-immigrant visitors came to thier countries and dictated for them what they should or should not be able to earn.

[bubblegum]

Don't know if Ivan had a sunstoke or is trolling ?

[FDog]

20-25k a month what kind of education does this tuk tukk guys have? = zero he should be making 10k not more then a fresh student out from Chula..

How elitist of you. Makes me wonder what people would think if some tourists and non-immigrant visitors came to thier countries and dictated for them what they should or should not be able to earn.

If they were earning it legally I would agree with you. But sadly no.

[stevenl]

Don't know if Ivan had a sunstoke or is trolling ?

He is always trolling.

But he does have a point IMO. Most of the tuktuk drivers are simply honest people trying to make a living.

[bubblegum]

Don't know if Ivan had a sunstoke or is trolling ?

He is always trolling.

But he does have a point IMO. Most of the tuktuk drivers are simply honest people trying to make a living.

555 Yes the drivers maybe......are they not the ones that block the roads ? Or do their bosses tell them to ?

[IrishIvan]

20-25k a month what kind of education does this tuk tukk guys have? = zero he should be making 10k not more then a fresh student out from Chula..How elitist of you. Makes me wonder what people would think if some tourists and non-immigrant visitors came to thier countries and dictated for them what they should or should not be able to earn.If they were earning it legally I would agree with you. But sadly no.

So how is it illegal to charge someone to get into taxis? There is billions of baht in black money in Thailand. The taxi drivers of Phuket dont even come into that equation

[NamKangMan]

Don't know if Ivan had a sunstoke or is trolling ?

He is always trolling.

But he does have a point IMO. Most of the tuktuk drivers are simply honest people trying to make a living.

They are happy they make such a great living under a corrupt system that allows them to. I fail to see how that makes them "honest."

They are no better than their "bosses."

Edited May 9, 2013 by NamKangMan

[NamKangMan]

20-25k a month what kind of education does this tuk tukk guys have? = zero he should be making 10k not more then a fresh student out from Chula..How elitist of you. Makes me wonder what people would think if some tourists and non-immigrant visitors came to thier countries and dictated for them what they should or should not be able to earn.If they were earning it legally I would agree with you. But sadly no.

So how is it illegal to charge someone to get into taxis? There is billions of baht in black money in Thailand. The taxi drivers of Phuket dont even come into that equation

You just don't get it.

Here's an easy example. If Airports of Thailand (AOT) only allowed Thai Airways to use Phuket International Airport, no other airlines can operate out of Phuket Airport, only Thai Airways, and then Thai Airways charged 20,000 baht minimum price from Phuket to Bangkok - most people would be catching the bus to go to Bangkok.

The tuk-tuks have done the same here, and allowed to by certain "inflential people" for a fee, so most people here are on a motorbike, in a car, or walking.

It's called collusion and monopolising and it's allowed to happen due to corruption.

That's why there is no "free market" transport system here. All the tuk-tuks charge the same price and they do not allow any competition to enter the industry through violence.

[KarenBravo]

20-25k a month what kind of education does this tuk tukk guys have? = zero he should be making 10k not more then a fresh student out from Chula..How elitist of you. Makes me wonder what people would think if some tourists and non-immigrant visitors came to thier countries and dictated for them what they should or should not be able to earn.If they were earning it legally I would agree with you. But sadly no.

So how is it illegal to charge someone to get into taxis? There is billions of baht in black money in Thailand. The taxi drivers of Phuket dont even come into that equation

You just don't get it.

Here's an easy example. If Airports of Thailand (AOT) only allowed Thai Airways to use Phuket International Airport, no other airlines can operate out of Phuket Airport, only Thai Airways, and then Thai Airways charged 20,000 baht minimum price from Phuket to Bangkok - most people would be catching the bus to go to Bangkok.

The tuk-tuks have done the same here, and allowed to by certain "inflential people" for a fee, so most people here are on a motorbike, in a car, or walking.

It's called collusion and monopolising and it's allowed to happen due to corruption.

That's why there is no "free market" transport system here. All the tuk-tuks charge the same price and they do not allow any competition to enter the industry through violence.

Very true. You neglected to mention something, though.

Well over 75% of the tuk-tuk drivers are just pawns.

They are making a good living in exchange for complete obedience.

Morals are made of elastic when family is involved.

[NomadJoe]

The tourists do not complain about the fares, the expats do. Well next time IrishIvan you tell your new found tuk tuk driver friend that the tourists DO complain. ALL THE TIME. To me, as a hotel manager. Maybe not directly to your friend because they read the stories about people getting beaten up after disputes with tuk tuk drivers.

I understand that there is a difference between places as Had Yai and Nongkhai compared to a tourist destination as Phuket. Operation costs and personal cost of living will be higher for drivers in Phuket thus justifying higher fares TO A CERTAIN EXTENT. But not to THIS extent.

Agreed. I'm also managing a small dive resort and we get constant complaints about how there is no way to get around. But on the bright side, I get to keep my 1st aid skills sharp with all the injuries people show up with after a day on a motorbike. (Not joking actually).

I'll share one recent story. Two girls catch a tuk tuk to Nai Harn beach. 300B. They are ready to leave so they catch another one. 1000B! No haggling. The driver actually gets upset with them when they inquire why over 3x the price for return and the girls feel threatened. This is one of two issues they had with tuk tuk drivers during their stay. They actually told me they are afraid to go outside the hotel! They check-out and leave vowing never to return to Phuket.

20-25k a month what kind of education does this tuk tukk guys have? = zero he should be making 10k not more then a fresh student out from Chula..

Free markets dictate wages not Thai visa

The taxi/tuk tuks in Phuket have no relation whatsoever to the concept of "free markets," not when they buy officials, blockade roads, and drag the competition from their buses and beat them.

Edited May 9, 2013 by NomadJoe

[NomadJoe]

There are a great many tuk tuk drivers in Phuket that are really good guys. One of the drivers for the dive shop I used to work for is one now, and he was a super nice guy. And 25,000B is a lot for a Thai actually, especially for a job requiring no education

What you forgot to ask him, Ivan, is whether he owned his tuk tuk or rented from someone, or was hired to drive it for the owner. Very few are driven by the owners. The way it works is, the original tuk tuk drivers made so much money that they bought a bunch of tuk tuks and hired drivers or rented them out. Eventually the next generation of drivers made enough money that they bought a bunch and rented them out, etc etc. These original few are the ones that own dozens of tuk tuks and are filthy rich now. (See Mayor of Patong and his son, the President of the Patong Tuk Tuk federation)

When I did the same thing you did 4-5 years ago, the driver, this one of the Kata Karon tuk tuk co-op, was also seemed a nice enough chap. He said that he makes 50,000B mo in the high season and no less than 20,000B in the low season. He also said that the Kata Karon group was better organized than Patong, and their numbers kept lower so less competition and higher fares. At the time is was 400B Kata to Patong, but 300B from Patong to Kata.

Look at these price lists for Phuket tuk tuks, then look at the ones from other regions of Thailand. Granted Bangkok tuk tuks are converted motorcycles and Phuket tuk tuks are little trucks, but HatYai tuk tuks are the same little trucks. Still. the difference in price is staggering. And don't forget, Pattaya songthaews are 10B and tilac rides for free!

Other parts of Thailand. See just how badly we're getting ripped off:

I have been to other parts of Thailand before and seen the differences. But these guys are not having to compete with foreigners in Pattaya and Bangkok.

Its all about choice. Dont take taxis or tuk tuks if you think they are overpriced.

To the first point: Compete with what foreigners? You mean the Russian taxi rank that was allegedly going to be set up somewhere up north? Didn't happen, so please explain that comment to me.

To the second point, a point that is always made in these threads, and to which I always respond the same: I don't use them, and I advise all our guests to not use them if possible, in fact nor do I patronize any establishments that advertises on them like Buffalo Steak House Two Chefs, Hot Yoga etc., and I tell those establishments why. It goes so far beyond just not using them though. Their negative image affects the livelihoods of a lot of people, Thai and expat, that rely on tourism for a living. Just Google "Phuket tuk tuk" and see what comes up. 10 negative stories for every neutral or positive one. It has been pointed out repeatedly that the lack of any affordable transport leads to more traffic and parking problems as the tuk tuks and taxi's take up much of the public parking. Easily half of the space on the street outside our hotel is taken up by tuk tuks and taxi's. When you park in their space, drivers have resorted to violence. (recall family put in hospital by umbrella pole wielding tuk tuk driver) They will create their own checkpoints in order to stop cars entering and exiting resorts and question and intimidate the drivers as they did my Thai neighbor that picked up clients of her property sales company, and they did with a friends husband (remember the Koh Chang Elephant Trekking driver beaten, car smashed by local tuk tuk taxi drivers while customers inside), One driver brandished a gun to a friend during a disagreement, I personally saw 20 or so drivers beat down two foreigners on Bangla road, most of the drivers had no idea why the fight started, but just wanted to get a few punches or kicks in while the guys were down. The list goes on.

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The Sydney Morning Herald: Phuket rip-off: the trouble with tuk-tuks

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[NamKangMan]

20-25k a month what kind of education does this tuk tukk guys have? = zero he should be making 10k not more then a fresh student out from Chula..How elitist of you. Makes me wonder what people would think if some tourists and non-immigrant visitors came to thier countries and dictated for them what they should or should not be able to earn.If they were earning it legally I would agree with you. But sadly no.

So how is it illegal to charge someone to get into taxis? There is billions of baht in black money in Thailand. The taxi drivers of Phuket dont even come into that equation

You just don't get it.

Here's an easy example. If Airports of Thailand (AOT) only allowed Thai Airways to use Phuket International Airport, no other airlines can operate out of Phuket Airport, only Thai Airways, and then Thai Airways charged 20,000 baht minimum price from Phuket to Bangkok - most people would be catching the bus to go to Bangkok.

The tuk-tuks have done the same here, and allowed to by certain "inflential people" for a fee, so most people here are on a motorbike, in a car, or walking.

It's called collusion and monopolising and it's allowed to happen due to corruption.

That's why there is no "free market" transport system here. All the tuk-tuks charge the same price and they do not allow any competition to enter the industry through violence.

Very true. You neglected to mention something, though.

Well over 75% of the tuk-tuk drivers are just pawns.

They are making a good living in exchange for complete obedience.

Morals are made of elastic when family is involved.

I agree KB. That's why I mentioned in another post that, even though they are "pawns" - that doesn't make them "honest" people. They give "obedience" to those higher up to be allowed to be a part of the transport rip off on Phuket.

As for "they are making a good living" - as pointed out, they are making more than a Thai university graduate who had to pay to go to university, pay for accommodation away from home, study for exams and for 3 to 4 years. The tuk-tuk driver makes a lot more money, and has no tertiary education, all because he is allowed to be a small part of a big colluding corruption machine.

I can see the day in the future where you will ask a little Thai kid, "What do you want to be when you grow up?" He will say, "A tuk-tuk driver on Phuket." :)