Getting Engaged - Giving Gold To Parent "normal"?

[Morakot]

Are you a troll?

People who live in glass houses...

[shaggy1969]

On reflection,maybe the posts I made before were a little harsh on the MIL without knowing all the details.

Maybe if the OP could tell us how he is treated by his g/f's Mother then we would be able to make a better judgement.

The Mother could be the salt of the Earth kinda lady that treats the OP like her own Son and is asking for the gold purely out of tradition.

Or she could be a money grabbing so and so that is only in it for the cash.

Difficult to judge without more info.

[transam]

Is the GF living with you, l mean full time. ?

[DGS1244]

Definitely not normal, suggest you engage brain and find someone else. If it has started now it will never stop, you being an ATM I mean.

[wombat]

Alexander the Great lost his entire army to the wily ways of Khun Thai...centuries ago.

[MyFriend You]

Quite normal, also money. the more you give, the more "appreciation" you give the bride and parents.

Just those things you have to do... unless your bride and her parents have a different mind set you may not have to do it.

But also, not giving money or gold, will "look bad" for her parents in their town. so, if you trully believe she is honest and worth it, then you just do it.

Not Normal for Engagements, they are usually done in the temple (mine was) My Ex's mother tried the same for me, when I asked why?? she said Thai Custom" I looked at her Father and said "Fine, its American Custom for the Father to pay for the girls wedding" that shut them up as they agreed to 'forget customs' I reciprocated by offering buy them a bungalow instead, far away from us in their home village...........smiles all around, faces saved, win win.........because most of us (all??) wind up building the in-laws a house anyway.

[transam]

Quite normal, also money. the more you give, the more "appreciation" you give the bride and parents.

Just those things you have to do... unless your bride and her parents have a different mind set you may not have to do it.

But also, not giving money or gold, will "look bad" for her parents in their town. so, if you trully believe she is honest and worth it, then you just do it.

Not Normal for Engagements, they are usually done in the temple (mine was) My Ex's mother tried the same for me, when I asked why?? she said Thai Custom" I looked at her Father and said "Fine, its American Custom for the Father to pay for the girls wedding" that shut them up as they agreed to 'forget customs' I reciprocated by offering buy them a bungalow instead, far away from us in their home village...........smiles all around, faces saved, win win.........because most of us (all??) wind up building the in-laws a house anyway.

We do eh. ........................

[bushwacker]

I always go back to the purpose of sin sot. It is to help the parents when you take the daughter away from the farm where she has been working hard to help support the family. Obviously if she goes away with you she cannot support the family anymore. So you are buying an asset (gf) because she has present and future economic value to the family i.e. she is working for them.....

So if she has beem previously married, or has lived a long time away from home, or has children, then the parents have already been paid or cheated out of their sinsot. At this point it is not your problem or issue. i.e. if they already sold her to a man, then she is not theirs to sell again. If anybody should get the sin sot it would be the x-husband. Basic common sense.

If this logic does not work with the family, then I usually tell them that sinsot is a western custom as well but usually waived because too much money involved. But in our custom the lady's family gives the gold, land, money and pays for the wedding. So I am more than happy to give you 5 baht of gold when you give me 30 .... so we can make things simple and you just give me 25 bahts of gold . Maybe you should give me more if I have to support a child!

Let the arguing begin .....

[MyFriend You]

I think that it would be wise for the OP to talk with his g/f's mother about how much the mother will be wanting for the marriage sin sot?

I dread to think,if she is asking 5 baht gold for the engagement.....how much will she want for the wedding?

.............and beware of the "Pea Chai's" popping out of the woodwork............my ex never told me about any brothers when we first met, they came from all over the pl,ace for the wedding, then never saw most of them again.

[wprime]

It's similar to the ring in traditional western engagements. If she cancels the marriage, she must give the gold back, if you cancel it or don't marry her by a certain date, she keeps it.

You only give it if she's still a virgin and it usually enables you to have sex with her (if she's been holding out). It's done to prevent people from taking their daughter's virginity then leaving them.

5 baht is fairly hefty for a non-BKK girl however if she is of some status then it is reasonable.

If she is not a virgin, you should not be giving anything to engage her, though keep in mind if she is reasonably young, her parents may still believe she is a virgin and she will lose a lot of face if try to negotiate your way out of paying on those grounds.

[cheeryble]

IF you have been with gf enough years to know her

Decide how much you will spend on the whole affair including marriage, sin sod, and all wedding expenses.

Tell your gf this is the unalterable and total budget and she may spend it as she wishes and has full responsibility.

If she is being over pushed by parents to "pay now" and it looks like she is not allowing for later expenses stop the process.

Perhaps suggest a gold ring for her now instead of later as a compromise to the 5 baht......to come from her budget of course.

(I did this....with no more than a medium budget.....and it was charming that my now wife spent nearly all the money on the wedding party and photos and clothes and all that and also on a pretty hefty gold band for me. We also had a lot of friends and were surprised how much came in envelopes which paid off overspend bills and even a bit left over for mum who is actually a lovely generous person.)

[connda]

Quite normal, also money. the more you give, the more "appreciation" you give the bride and parents.

Just those things you have to do... unless your bride and her parents have a different mind set you may not have to do it.

But also, not giving money or gold, will "look bad" for her parents in their town. so, if you trully believe she is honest and worth it, then you just do it.

Not Normal for Engagements, they are usually done in the temple (mine was) My Ex's mother tried the same for me, when I asked why?? she said Thai Custom" I looked at her Father and said "Fine, its American Custom for the Father to pay for the girls wedding" that shut them up as they agreed to 'forget customs' I reciprocated by offering buy them a bungalow instead, far away from us in their home village...........smiles all around, faces saved, win win.........because most of us (all??) wind up building the in-laws a house anyway.

Compare and contrast cultures. Compromise.

"Fine, its American Custom for the Father to pay for the girls wedding"

Two thumbs up and a High-Five!!! That was the perfect response!!! Great

[shaggy1969]

Wow 167 users reading this thread.....not seen that many together in a long time !!!!!

[asdecas]

Alexander the Great lost his entire army to the wily ways of Khun Thai...centuries ago.

Alexander the Great? Where did you learn history, the Thai Academy of Soothsayers?

[MobileContent]

I just was two days ago at a Thai engagement party of my cousin and he paid 40,000 Baht to his parents in laws and they fixed another 60,000 Baht if they married within the next 12 months. He is now saving every month around 5-6000 Baht for the marriage next year. 5 Baht Gold for engagement sounds a bit high but if his GF is a virgin and never had a guy I don't see this as a big deal.

Some of the TV posters don't know anything about the situation of the OP and judge every MIL that ask for Sinsot to be greedy. Their have been 4 weddings and engagements in our village in the past 2 months and the guys all had to pay up.

[onni4me]

OP not giving much detail it is hard to see the bigger picture.

Engagement party can be held and some jewelry bought. I have seen this happening but the items purchased have gone to the girl, not to her mother...and as someone said, these are supposed to be returned in case of separating later.

Also, if she has been married/has babies, no sin sot would be expected whatsoever. In that case, it would be about your kindness and choice (which I think it should be anyway).

I have known middle-class Thais that have married with another Thai and in some cases the lady refused sin sot stating that she doesn't want her husband's family to have any say over her (i.e. bought her to their family).

Since Thailand and many Thais have become much more modern, I would offer nothing. That may sound selfish but I would explain that in my culture we don't do things in this way. Actually in MY culture, it was supposed to be the lady bringing dowry to the house but this practice has long since gone out of date.

I may sound very cynical but in my experience the chances of happiness in relationship are less likely if and when it all starts from the monetary side of it. You may feel that she is the only one for you but there is plenty of fish in the sea and if she refuses to comply with your ways, I would simply look elsewhere. Mutual happiness starts from mutual understanding.

[connda]

It's similar to the ring in traditional western engagements. If she cancels the marriage, she must give the gold back, if you cancel it or don't marry her by a certain date, she keeps it.

You only give it if she's still a virgin and it usually enables you to have sex with her (if she's been holding out). It's done to prevent people from taking their daughter's virginity then leaving them.

5 baht is fairly hefty for a non-BKK girl however if she is of some status then it is reasonable.

If she is not a virgin, you should not be giving anything to engage her, though keep in mind if she is reasonably young, her parents may still believe she is a virgin and she will lose a lot of face if try to negotiate your way out of paying on those grounds.

That's good too. Tell Mom that you're going to give her 1/4 baht and a small diamond, however, it will be in the form of a ring that will go on her daughters finger for "safe-keeping". Happy engagement!

[mickjn]

Just say no.

No to the gold.

No to the engagement.

No to the wedding.

I agree.Give the girlfriend a chance say no to her.If she argues and sticks up for Mama and Papa I would think its all over,it is only going to get worse get out now

[scorecard]

I've never heard before of parents asking for gold for an engagement.

But if they see what looks like a "dumb bufallo" wht not try and to Pete 66 sorry pal but I think you are going to have big problems with this girls family unless you put your foot down now

Instant negative with very little information.

OP please ignore 99% of the negatives (based on no knowledge of your circumstances) in the replies to your question.

OP please note; dowry paid to the lady's parents (either engagement, or on marriage, on perhaps even both) is very normal in Thai culture and is still practiced by poor, middle class and super rich Thai families.

In Thai language dowry is 'sinsod'. Suggest you do some overall research on sinsod, and there is a pinned thread on this subject on this site.

[Card]

These are the first signs of you are getting fleeced, mate.

Why don't you tell them that in your culture (if from the UK, say North Yorkshire, if from USA, say West Virginia, or whatever), it is traditional in recognition of how the man brings such increased respect to the girl's parents by engaging with their daughter, to give exactly the same value as they receive from the man to the man/charity/poor. Then tell them that in your said culture, you must do the giving and receiving in a ceremony involving a room full of flowers and a pile of rocks, provided by the daughter's family, signifying the beauty of their daughter and the solid foundation of her future union, or that you are allowed to just shake hands with the father if the ceremony cannot be arranged. Tell them that you cannot possibly be engaged to their daughter without this sign of respect for the future husband and see their faces drop. Thank you.

[Emdog]

Even if you gave real gold, it could still qualify as "Fool's gold".

[Frank James]

In a word:

E-X-T-O-R-T-I-O-N.

And who gets engaged for THREE YEARS?

And if it doesn't work out, will they give you back your sin sort "deposit"? (Cue laughter and slamming from TV Cynics Gallery.)

5 baht gold today approx; 100,000 baht PLUS? = approx $3500.00 US (?)

[cbluck58]

It's nonsense - I have been married to a wonderful Thai woman for 7 years - no engagement present and the 100k I put in for the wedding went straight back in my pocket after the ceremony - no offence was taken , everyone was happy and satisfied - definitely no gold to parents involved....

[sawadeeken]

I suggest using this as a test of whether she (and the family) are more interested in you or money. If they don't get the money but she holds on to you, then you can feel a bit more secure. Another couple things come to mind, after all my experiences with Thai girls for about 30 years (and two Thai wives) (and many girlfriends and Mia-noi's) and never made one cash/gold commitment, although been very generous over time. I can imagine a girl asking for this if she is: a bar-girl or a dating-site acquaintance, so where did you meet her? The second thing is that their friends (and family) will push them to try these tactics, just to see if it will work (it's money in the bank for them).

The real test is to see if she wants you as much as you love her.

A friend just forwarded me an email today that has a Youtube video of a very common thai-wife/foreign-husband typical situation. Please have a look at it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUIbwO05JAA&feature=youtu.be

Anybody will enjoy watching this, although it is long, but well worth the time.

I have read the many replies ahead of mine and I think there as many 'experienced' people contributing as well as a few very lucky guys that struck gold on their first search and have 'genuine' and dedicated mates.

MY BEST ADVISE: Watch the youtube video and you keep control of the 'drivers seat'. (and the purse-strings.

Best of luck, If you are new at this, you surely need it.............

[SOTIRIOS]

......alarm bells going off.......

(Do some research on 'foreigners marrying Thai women'...and what happens to them)

I have a foreign friend that just told me of 2 other cases.....

When the woman and her family get what they want...and they will....get everything...then, you are no longer wanted, needed or welcome.....

It is all illusion....you are looking for love, companionship....they are looking for your assets.....

.....a variation on the 'buffalo daughter'......any way to get what they want or need...

[lounger]

Depends where you get engaged married. Try Natal as she has to give you 20 cattle or India you have to ride a horse..

I recommend aUK wedding : a movie, 6 pack cider and a KFC. Yout don't start paying until the divorce

[HerbalEd]

Dear God....not ANOTHER sin sot thread...

Why even come here then. You don't have to read it, do you?

[djlest]

Difficult one mate... A lot of Thai families especially Chinese/Thai still have a lot of this going on. And no its not just reserved for the farangs.

BUT.... there is a WARNING BELL - You said your GF told you the Mum wants 5 baht of Gold.
Normally the mother would never ask how much she wants to sell her daughter to you
It's supposed to be upto you and you will give how much you feel appropriate.
Also, engagements are not usually common in Thailand. You either marry or you don't here. Engagements were brought over by the farangs, so if they are trying to fleece you twice rather than just once. Cancel it!

Lastly, i suggest you tell your GF, that your father and mother want 10 baht of gold for them to let their son go. And that in your culture the wife's family also pay for the wedding.

[cheeryble]

It's nonsense - I have been married to a wonderful Thai woman for 7 years - no engagement present and the 100k I put in for the wedding went straight back in my pocket after the ceremony - no offence was taken , everyone was happy and satisfied - definitely no gold to parents involved....

You forgot to mention your wife has one eye.

[challenger99]

Sin Sot is a very old usus in many Asian countries; I say VERY OLD ...

See all this action started by your simple question. It should be a serious warning. After Gold come the Pick-up car to build a house for whole family but at the end not for you ....