Montclair Wine

[GiantFan]

This is just a few paragraphs about my recent discovery of some new Montclair wines. New to me, because they may have been available for a while, but I never noticed. For wine snobs, back click now.

I tried the box wines a few years ago just to see how they where. The white as virtually undrinkable (even with tons of nam soda) and the red slightly better. I wrote them off as a good first effort. At the time, I was told that the raw grape juice was imported from SA and was fermented and boxed / bottled in Thailand. Not sure if this is 100% true, so don't kill the messenger. So was hoping that they would perfect later.

About a year ago, I started to see the 2 liter bottles as house wine in some bars / restaurants. From what I could tell, it was the same as the box wines. About the same as the Italian Blanco / Rosso that were the main wines sold for years in Phuket. Not sure if the price was any better, but the taste wasn't.

Several months ago, I saw a Reserve Shiraz for sale down at the local Family Mart. It had some sort of silver / bronze medals from some nondescript wine show. Didn't buy, but a few weeks ago when I was down at my local Supercheap 24/7, I saw a large selection of various types. I purchased one of each to do a home wine-tasting with some friends. Here is what we found:

Chardonnay Bin 6 - Much better than the box / 2L bottle. Not nearly as sweet. Very lightly oaked. I'm not a white wine fan, but drinkable.

Rose Bin 8 - It's made from Cabernet grapes, which helps a lot. Moderately sweet and tastes pretty good.

Cabernet Sauvignon Bin 5 - By far my favorite. Vintage 2011 better than 2012. Fruity, very drinkable.

Shiraz Bin 9 - Same as I saw in my local Family Mart. Vintage was 2012, so very young. Way too many tannins. Needed a glass of water.

All priced at TB 270 / 750 ml bottle.

They had another Gold Label that I tried the other day. Need to be thorough obviously.

Merlot / Cabernet Bin 9000 - Cork / not screwtop. Very drinkable. I like merlot blends.

Price at SC was TB 320 / 750 ml bottle.

I think they have Sparkling as well, but I'm not a fan.

So that's the update. A reasonable bottle of Cab for less $10 US equivalent is good news for me. Sure, you want to splurge once in a while, but for everyday table wine, I can't see anything better. If anyone knows of any better value, please advise.

[Pinot]

Montclair isn't as good as 2 buck chuck and that sucks. I've got a box on the kitchen counter, I'm sorry to say. I bought it because it was 880b at Mackro, down a bit. It will get drunk but the wine experience in LOS is pathetic.

[JetsetBkk]

Yep. I've got an unopened Montclair Red Celebration in one fridge and an opened one in the other. It's OK if you can wipe your memory of what good wines you used to drink actually taste like.

I like it with some cheddar cheese and Garden Saltine biscuits in the evening. But not too much - otherwise I wake up with a headache.

[Jimi007]

Clicking back now!

[Ticketmaster]

It's OK if you can wipe your memory of what good wines you used to drink actually taste like.

I hadn't really thought of it this way, but, yes, that's the secret to enjoying wine in Thailand. That's it exactly!

[hansgruber]

Mont Clair is the worst wine on the planet. Its just marketed heavily and pushed into every place.
Stop in at winelovers at fisherman's way and grab a box of this or 999.
You'll thank me later.

[NamKangMan]

I drink it, but under sufferance.

I get friends to bring in a bottle of nice wine for me when they come for a holiday. If a couple come over, I get 2 bottles bought in.

I have been considering trying to have a bottle posted to me. If it works, I could make it a regular delivery. Probably just one bottle a week, through the mail.

Any members with some experience/thoughts on this idea?

[xylophone]

Yeah, used to think that Montclair was an okay drinker, but like one other poster said, I started to get headaches after drinking it, but having said that it was only an everyday "swigger" anyway.

The Cedar Creek box wine has been suggested, and I have tried it, however find it a little "flabby" for my liking, although much better than the Montclair. At the moment my regular box wine for everyday drinking is one from Chile called "Bodegas Centenarius" Cabernet Sauvignon/Merlot, and at around 750 baht for 3 L in Makro, for my taste it is probably the best budget wine around at the moment.

Have tried the Australian wine, "30 mile Creek" (or something like) that from the Wine Connection and at around 375 baht per bottle, it was good value.

Some good bargains to be had if you search around the wine shops with mis-priced wines and specials, and one which I tried recently from Big C was very drinkable at around 325 baht per bottle, however I cannot remember the exact details, but I think it was from Chile or Argentina, and the bottle was a Bordeaux shaped bottle with the picture of a red chilli on the front of it, with a small label underneath it also being in red, with the label being capital letters which stood for something or another!!

Just one thing on the boxed wines, I have had a few dud ones, with one of the Cedar Creek box wines being off, and when I searched the bottom of the box for a production date it showed it was 2010, which is way too old for a box wine, and I can only assume it was old stock put on the shelves. I now check the bottom of the boxes and you will normally find a stamp showing the date of production, currently 2012 is the best for something like this. Also had a bad experience with one bought from Villa Market at Chalong, which was definitely off, although I couldn't find a date stamp on the thing.

The surprising thing about this wine was that although it purported to be Chilean Syrah/Shiraz by the pictures on the box and the label (something like "Monte Chilean") it turned out that it was actually Spanish, and then imported by a Danish company, and obviously found its way to Thailand, by a circuitous route I would suggest because of the state of the wine when I tasted it.

Steer well clear of that wine would be my advice!

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

Just one thing on the boxed wines, I have had a few dud ones, with one of the Cedar Creek box wines being off, and when I searched the bottom of the box for a production date it showed it was 2010, which is way too old for a box wine, and I can only assume it was old stock put on the shelves.

<snip>

I'm pretty sure Makro gets new stock in regularly, as they sometimes run out of the boxed Mont Clair. But, of course, I don't know where they get it from.

Mont Clair is the worst wine on the planet. Its just marketed heavily and pushed into every place.

Stop in at winelovers at fisherman's way and grab a box of this or 999.

You'll thank me later.

I love Shiraz so I'm going to give that one a try.

[chiang mai]

Mont Clair is the worst wine on the planet. Its just marketed heavily and pushed into every place.

Stop in at winelovers at fisherman's way and grab a box of this or 999.

You'll thank me later.

Paint stripper at best, never allow contact with skin.

[xylophone]

<snip>

Just one thing on the boxed wines, I have had a few dud ones, with one of the Cedar Creek box wines being off, and when I searched the bottom of the box for a production date it showed it was 2010, which is way too old for a box wine, and I can only assume it was old stock put on the shelves.

<snip>

I'm pretty sure Makro gets new stock in regularly, as they sometimes run out of the boxed Mont Clair. But, of course, I don't know where they get it from.

>Mont Clair is the worst wine on the planet. Its just marketed heavily and pushed into every place.

Stop in at winelovers at fisherman's way and grab a box of this or 999.

You'll thank me later.

I love Shiraz so I'm going to give that one a try.

The dud Cedar Creek was bought at Big C in Patong for the record. I checked the other boxes when I went back and the remaining 6 or so boxes of it were also 2010!! I assumed that they were old stock because they have been out of stock for a while and suddenly these few boxes turned up on the shelf (someone clearing out the warehouse perhaps?).

So I pointed this out to the staff, then another one, then the manager and realised that I was wasting my time as they had no comprehension that wine could be "off".

The other dud, which was the nasty Spanish Shiraz, was bought from Villa Market (Chalong) and the problems I had in changing that would take a whole page to describe. Suffice it to say that no one in that store had any knowledge of wine whatsoever, and the fact that this was a completely cloudy, foul smelling and tasting wine in the glass made no difference to them, even though they could see it and smell it, and I even compared it to a bottle from their shelves because you could see the clear colour of that wine.

Now that is a worry because they have bottles of very fine wine up to 32,000 baht or more bottle on sale, yet no one knows a thing about what red wine should look like or taste like. What chance would you have trying to get a bottle replaced if it was off through heat, bad storage or faulty cork?

Since that time I have never bought wine from that place again and probably never will.

[Salapoo]

4L box of Peter Vella for around 799b is a nice easy table wine.

Nicer than Mont Claire.

[bearpolar]

4L box of Peter Vella for around 799b is a nice easy table wine.

Nicer than Mont Claire.

never seen it. Where is it sold? The only reason we buy mont clair is that its available at makro/tesco and the cheapest which suits us when we're not eating fine food or just want a bit of quick alchool to relax

[Salapoo]

Available in Villa Market and Tops in BKK, maybe Tesco too. Have Bottles of it in the 7-11.

I think they might be pushing/marketing it at moment as I'm seeing it more and more.

[eezergood]

I would use this stuff as a base for Sangria - Sangria Sundays

[xylophone]

I would use this stuff as a base for Sangria - Sangria Sundays

Agree as it seems to be a little sweet for my liking, as are many cheaper Californian wines.

Still reckon the best buys in box wines to be the Chilean wine called "Bodegas Centenarius" Cabernet Sauvignon/Merlot, at around 750 baht for 3 L in Makro, (date stamped 2012 under the perforations where the tap will be) and the Cedar Creek Shiraz and Shiraz/Cab with date clearly visible on the box labelling proper.

Looked around again yesterday and noticed that the Wine Connection Aussie wine "30 mile Creek" was up at 449 baht (must have been on special at one time). If you really want to try a wine which bridges the old world and new world styles then try a bottle of "Rare Vineyards" Cabernet Syrah as it is a very good wine for the price of around 449 or 499 a bottle from the Languedoc in the south of France.......don't get confused with the similar bottles of Rare Vineyards Grenache, not in the same league in my book.

This really is a little gem of a wine which can be interspersed with drinks of the box wines to give variation.

[chiang mai]

If you were a person and you travelled from say Australia or Europe to Thailand by boat, subjected to massive tempreture swings and bounced around on the decks of a ship and on the back of a truck for days at a time, my guess is you'd finish your journey in a somewhat of a worse state than when you started, imgaine how the wine feels! And you wonder why you can't get decent wine here.

[jocko]

If you were a person and you travelled from say Australia or Europe to Thailand by boat, subjected to massive tempreture swings and bounced around on the decks of a ship and on the back of a truck for days at a time, my guess is you'd finish your journey in a somewhat of a worse state than when you started, imgaine how the wine feels! And you wonder why you can't get decent wine here.

So what is the answer as most wine sold in the UK comes from afar.

[chiang mai]

If you were a person and you travelled from say Australia or Europe to Thailand by boat, subjected to massive tempreture swings and bounced around on the decks of a ship and on the back of a truck for days at a time, my guess is you'd finish your journey in a somewhat of a worse state than when you started, imgaine how the wine feels! And you wonder why you can't get decent wine here.

So what is the answer as most wine sold in the UK comes from afar.

I would guess that the difference is that UK imported wine is subject to stricter import/QC controls in respect of transportation, and, UK wine rarely if ever has to sit on the dock in a metal container in 30 degree temp.

[eezergood]

France to UK is a tad closer than Aus to Thailand

[xylophone]

If you were a person and you travelled from say Australia or Europe to Thailand by boat, subjected to massive tempreture swings and bounced around on the decks of a ship and on the back of a truck for days at a time, my guess is you'd finish your journey in a somewhat of a worse state than when you started, imgaine how the wine feels! And you wonder why you can't get decent wine here.

Well actually you can get a decent wine here, in fact you can get many decent wines here. Obviously the cheaper the wine the less care is going to be taken with it as regards transportation cost etc, and as a lot of people are looking at the cheaper end (because of the high tax regime), then they are going to find more duds.

In addition a lot of the containers are refrigerated so that the contents are protected from heat swings, however some are still shipped in what are known as dry containers and therefore are subject to possible deterioration. Statistics say that around 9.6% of wines shipped in dry containers do suffer from the effects of extreme heat and temperature variation.

The major problem here as I see it is what happens after they arrive and how they are stored on the dock and in the warehouses in Bangkok, for example, before being stored in the shops here that actually sell the stuff. I believe these areas to be where the problem really lies.

For example, in my home country (as far away from France as you can possibly get) I can buy a 10-year-old Bordeaux classed growth from my local wine merchant and it will be superb, having been shipped in refrigerated containers and kept in a cool and dark environment, laid on its side in order to keep the cork wet. Over here they have the same wine in Villa Market which I wouldn't touch with a barge pole because I don't know how it has been stored (although I do see many of them standing upright on shelves and therefore subject to deterioration), and I know they know nothing about wine so why should they bother, and of course if it was dud, they wouldn't take it back anyway.

Even in the Wine Connection you can buy wine from France as mentioned in my previous post (Rare Vineyards), obviously shipped from that country but in perfect condition now, and a very good wine as well, all for around 449 or 499 baht (depending on the promo).

The condition of wine in this country is indeed a big problem, however as I said, I would suspect it comes from what happens after it lands here rather than its initial journey, however that's just my take on it.

As an aside, the shipping of wine juice in very large refrigerated tanks/plastic bladders has been around for decades and used to be used for transporting wine from North Africa to France for blending with some of the better wines in order to give them backbone, when some of the regulations were a little "lax", so to speak. I believe that's what they do with the Montclair wine so as to keep the cost down and be able to control the quality a little better, although we have all said that the quality is at the very low-end anyway, but at least it is consistent!!

[chiang mai]

Yes, I don't disagree that it is possible to get a decent wine here but as you say, it depends on the cost, the shipper and the transportation/storage factors, for box wine at the lower end of the scale I would guess that a good box is a rareity.

[jocko]

France to UK is a tad closer than Aus to Thailand

The most popular wines in UK supermarkets are from USA. OZ.CHILE.SOUTH AFRICA it was the UK market that opened up the world for Australian wines Penfolds was the first i think. The French wine makers got a big shock when Aus wine started winning gold medals

Maybe the QC is better .

Bottoms Up.

[chiang mai]

The grapes needed to make wine tend not to grow in the tropics hence the wineries are all located in cooler climates. The problem comes when you ship a wine from that cooler climate, to a tropical destination which is not geared up to handle the product in an optimal way and where the locals don't understand the impact of that.

[xylophone]

Yes, I don't disagree that it is possible to get a decent wine here but as you say, it depends on the cost, the shipper and the transportation/storage factors, for box wine at the lower end of the scale I would guess that a good box is a rareity.

Yes, you are right, the cost, the shipper in transportation/storage factors are key. Having said that, maybe I have been a little tardy in my explanation in as much as there are some good box wines around, but I have had a couple of bad experiences with them.

Let's take the first instance of the horrible pseudo-Chilean Spanish Shiraz, because I believe that in the first place this was a bit of a ruse as trying to label a poor Spanish Shiraz as a Chilean wine smacks of subversion in the first place. It's my opinion that this was then bought by a merchant in Denmark who found that it was not selling well, so another market was found for it, which happened to be Thailand. Hence when it eventually arrived here it was in poor condition, however that is not to say that all of the boxes were poor, but certainly the history and what I tried would lead me to that conclusion.

The second incident with the Cedar Creek wine was in fact a mistake on my part (apologies to hansgruber) because it was actually a wine called "Jimberoo" from Australia which was clearly well out of date when it was on the shelves at Big C.

As for the post by "jocko" while there is a lot of truth in what you say and some Australian wine was in fact exported to the UK in the late 1800s, not to have found favour I will admit. As the Australian wine market continued to grow and the winemakers became more conversant with ways to treat grapes, the use of sulphur dioxide to kill the nasties and the inclusion of cultured yeasts rather than wild ones, then the wines became much better.

In the early 1970s, Australian wine was imported into the UK and it found great favour because of the comparison between the rather thin rubbish that was being imported from the south of France with little or no regard to quality, and this lovely fruit driven wine from Australia, with soft tannins, although the tannins were still very evident along with the fruit, making it a very drinkable wine with or without food.

The French then started to enforce the "Appellation Controllee" laws which were designed to improve the quality of wines from France in order to make their exports much more quality driven, although that still had some problems.

There is no doubt that the reason for the Australian success in the UK is because of the quality of the wine and the fruit driven aspect of them. That is the reason why Chilean wines are also becoming popular, and can also be a little cheaper because they came a little late onto the scene.

And just for the record, perhaps one of the most famous Australian wines, "Grange" was as a result of the Penfold's winemaker, Max Schubert's insistence that Australia could make some of the best wines in the world, so he toured Europe looking at the old world winemakers techniques and adapted some of them to his winemaking in Australia, although his first attempt at "Grange" was ridiculed by not only the Penfold's hierarchy, but also others who tried it. Little did they know that he was trying to make a wine which was going to improve quite markedly with age, which it did, and it became a hit sometime around 1954 to 1956 I believe, and the rest is history.

Sorry to go on a little, but it is a pet subject of mine and one I have studied now for over 40 years.

[jocko]

The grapes needed to make wine tend not to grow in the tropics hence the wineries are all located in cooler climates. The problem comes when you ship a wine from that cooler climate, to a tropical destination which is not geared up to handle the product in an optimal way and where the locals don't understand the impact of that.

I have seen articles in the papers in Thailand about the possibility of growing grapes for wine making up where you are I think the last one was a German winemaker thought it would be possible any thoughts on that happening .

[jocko]

Yes, I don't disagree that it is possible to get a decent wine here but as you say, it depends on the cost, the shipper and the transportation/storage factors, for box wine at the lower end of the scale I would guess that a good box is a rareity.

Yes, you are right, the cost, the shipper in transportation/storage factors are key. Having said that, maybe I have been a little tardy in my explanation in as much as there are some good box wines around, but I have had a couple of bad experiences with them.

 

Let's take the first instance of the horrible pseudo-Chilean Spanish Shiraz, because I believe that in the first place this was a bit of a ruse as trying to label a poor Spanish Shiraz as a Chilean wine smacks of subversion in the first place. It's my opinion that this was then bought by a merchant in Denmark who found that it was not selling well, so another market was found for it, which happened to be Thailand. Hence when it eventually arrived here it was in poor condition, however that is not to say that all of the boxes were poor, but certainly the history and what I tried would lead me to that conclusion.

 

The second incident with the Cedar Creek wine was in fact a mistake on my part (apologies to hansgruber) because it was actually a wine called "Jimberoo" from Australia which was clearly well out of date when it was on the shelves at Big C.

 

As for the post by "jocko" while there is a lot of truth in what you say and some Australian wine was in fact exported to the UK in the late 1800s, not to have found favour I will admit. As the Australian wine market continued to grow and the winemakers became more conversant with ways to treat grapes, the use of sulphur dioxide to kill the nasties and the inclusion of cultured yeasts rather than wild ones, then the wines became much better.

 

In the early 1970s, Australian wine was imported into the UK and it found great favour because of the comparison between the rather thin rubbish that was being imported from the south of France with little or no regard to quality, and this lovely fruit driven wine from Australia, with soft tannins, although the tannins were still very evident along with the fruit, making it a very drinkable wine with or without food.

 

The French then started to enforce the "Appellation Controllee" laws which were designed to improve the quality of wines from France in order to make their exports much more quality driven, although that still had some problems.

 

There is no doubt that the reason for the Australian success in the UK is because of the quality of the wine and the fruit driven aspect of them. That is the reason why Chilean wines are also becoming popular, and can also be a little cheaper because they came a little late onto the scene.

 

And just for the record, perhaps one of the most famous Australian wines, "Grange" was as a result of the Penfold's winemaker, Max Schubert's insistence that Australia could make some of the best wines in the world, so he toured Europe looking at the old world winemakers techniques and adapted some of them to his winemaking in Australia, although his first attempt at "Grange" was ridiculed by not only the Penfold's hierarchy, but also others who tried it. Little did they know that he was trying to make a wine which was going to improve quite markedly with age, which it did, and it became a hit sometime around 1954 to 1956 I believe, and the rest is history.

 

Sorry to go on a little, but it is a pet subject of mine and one I have studied now for over 40 years.

Thanks for the post good info .

The only reason I know about Australian wine making a impact was because of a excellent program on UK TV about it and how they had to battle against wine snobs and the old school wine makers but the Australians are a stubborn lot and knew they could win in the end.

And just to add a useless piece of info I worked in Algeria in the late 70s and as you know the French had control of Algeria until they had a revolution but the Algerians told us when it become obvious to the French that it was a lost cause they took all the grape vines back to France .

But I can say the Algerians had a go themselves to make wine and trust me you never tasted anything like it you just left the bottom quarter in the bottle.

The best hangover's I ever had and the beer was'nt much better.

Happy Days

[chiang mai]

The grapes needed to make wine tend not to grow in the tropics hence the wineries are all located in cooler climates. The problem comes when you ship a wine from that cooler climate, to a tropical destination which is not geared up to handle the product in an optimal way and where the locals don't understand the impact of that.

I have seen articles in the papers in Thailand about the possibility of growing grapes for wine making up where you are I think the last one was a German winemaker thought it would be possible any thoughts on that happening .

Indeed I've seen displays set up in the local malls where they've advertised Thai wines, I've never tried any so I can't comment - I guess it must be possible to grow grapes up here, everything else seems to grow pretty well and the mountain region is a bit cooler, dunno for sure though what the limitations are..

[xylophone]

Quote jocko: "And just to add a useless piece of info I worked in Algeria in the late 70s and as you know the French had control of Algeria until they had a revolution but the Algerians told us when it become obvious to the French that it was a lost cause they took all the grape vines back to France .But I can say the Algerians had a go themselves to make wine and trust me you never tasted anything like it you just left the bottom quarter in the bottle".

Thank you for your kind feedback jocko and in my book there is no useless piece of information about wine because it is such a fascinating subject. I know what you mean about the North African wine because I worked in Libya in 1970 and tasted some of the red wine which was produced as a result of the Italian influence, and it was awful – – the best use was probably for cleaning autoparts, but to alcohol-starved expats working in the Sahara desert it was a saviour!

Algeria however has a better history than that because in the recent past the French planted a couple of grape varieties, Carignan and Cinsault, which were prolific growers and needed very little attention in the vineyards and could grow just about anywhere, especially in the dry soil/sand, and this was the backbone of the Algerian wine industry. It made a very average drinking wine, however if tended carefully it could make an acceptable wine with good alcohol content and some tannins.

Indeed, there was a good trade in this wine between Algeria and France in the 60s and early 70s, where it was imported into France to be blended with wines which lacked backbone due to poor vintages (or earlier because of the destruction of the vines by the phylloxera pest).

Consider the plight of the winemakers in France when bad weather hits/a bad vintage is in the offing – – in Bordeaux the winemaker has some better options because the typical Bordeaux wine is a blend of Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, Merlot, Malbec and Petit Verdot, so he can play around with the mix to make perhaps a "better wine" when a poor vintage hits. Not so with the poor Burgundian wine maker whose only grape is the Pinot Noir, a fickle grape at the best of times and when a poor vintage hits, the wine produced is best described as thin, sour lolly water, which can be improved with the addition of a little sugar (another subject altogether), however when it is poor it is very poor.

What the wine makers did, and still do to a certain extent, was to search around for a wine to blend with their Burgundy in order to make it "more acceptable" shall we say. That wine came from Algeria, the Southern Rhône/Languedoc and even Italy. "Not so", I hear the French winemakers say, however they were a little caught out in the recent past when the French farmers decided to throw another demonstration and blockade the ports and roads into the country, only to find that several tankers full of cheap Italian blending wine were held up at the Italian/French border!!

For the record, small amounts of Carignan are still grown in the south of France, and some vignerons tend the remaining vines carefully to make a reasonably good wine, mostly used in blends. Cinsault is also grown and in greater quantities than Carignan and is also used in blends, one in particular being Chateauneuf du Papes.

[xylophone]

The grapes needed to make wine tend not to grow in the tropics hence the wineries are all located in cooler climates. The problem comes when you ship a wine from that cooler climate, to a tropical destination which is not geared up to handle the product in an optimal way and where the locals don't understand the impact of that.

I have seen articles in the papers in Thailand about the possibility of growing grapes for wine making up where you are I think the last one was a German winemaker thought it would be possible any thoughts on that happening .

Indeed I've seen displays set up in the local malls where they've advertised Thai wines, I've never tried any so I can't comment - I guess it must be possible to grow grapes up here, everything else seems to grow pretty well and the mountain region is a bit cooler, dunno for sure though what the limitations are..

I believe there are some produced in Hua Hin and certainly up between Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai as I have driven past them. As you say it is possible to produce grapes in the cooler areas, however one of the problems with Thailand is the humidity which encourages all sorts of moulds, mildew and pests, to name but a few.

I have tasted about three bottles of Thai red wine, low, medium and top end and would say that the wine at the top end at 600 baht would be just about drinkable as a "swigger" with something like a pizza. I did hear that one particular wine had received a medal in a wine show somewhere, however it must be remembered that medals can be awarded for some pretty obscure reasons, for example, best red wine produced near the equator; best label (being a little facetious here but not far off the mark) and so on.

I can never see the wine industry taking off here, but then again one wouldn't expect it to.