Montclair Wine

[laislica]

eezergood, you make me feel so guilty, me whinging about a 33.33% increase in the price of the Pata Negra

From 3 to 4 Euros!

Even more guilty as the price has dropped back to €3

[xylophone]

eezergood, you make me feel so guilty, me whinging about a 33.33% increase in the price of the Pata Negra

From 3 to 4 Euros!

Even more guilty as the price has dropped back to €3

Lucky man to be able to buy wine that cheaply!!

I have to say that the latest price increases are absolutely crazy and as "eezergood" has alluded to they seem to have no rhyme or reason behind the amount of increase.

As I mentioned earlier, the Australian wine, "Little Yering" 2009 has gone up from 525 baht to 799 baht (52% increase); my favourite box wine "Centenarius" has gone up from 799 baht to 1099 baht (38% increase) and most stunning of all, the Australian wine called "The Pump" which I used to be able to buy for 285 baht at Supercheap (385 baht at Big C) has now gone up to 685 baht (78% increase) and it was only an extremely average "drinker" at the best of times.

Went into Wine Connection (Patong) yesterday and they still haven't put their prices up although one lady in the shop said it was imminent. Good on them for holding off, probably accounting for getting rid of current stock, but all the same at least they are not taking advantage (or the p*ss) which these other places seem to be.

On a separate, but related subject, whilst trawling through the wine at Big C, I came across a few bottles (end of stock?) of a South African red, marked down at 299 baht and as I had tried it before and rated it as a pizza/Thai food type wine, I thought I'd try it again. I was very disappointed with myself when I got it home and realised that it was a 2005 vintage and I thought it would almost certainly be spoiled/over the top.

Imagine my surprise when it turned out to be a nice wine, with the Cabernet Sauvignon showing through with some hints of blackcurrant, although I could not get the Merlot in it, and the bottle age had certainly softened the tannins and given it the sort of "aged wine taste" that I quite like. Must have been extremely lucky and this wine must have been stored very well.

[Bcgardener]

I was in Makro today and my favourite Aussie wine "Rumours" has gone from 299 Baht a bottle to 550. Does anyone actually know what the tax increase percentage actually was. The wine prices here in Pattaya are all over the place.

[eezergood]

Each bottle is being taxed differently. They are, essentially, taxing them according to their real value. This was supposed to be the case, but many peopl eproduced dodgy invoices thus reducing the value of the wine and its tax liability. This is why a 2000Euro bottle of wine will not have changed too much as it would be very easy to check the costs. Whereas a 2 Euro, could be harder to prove - Volume discount, bin end specials etc... Also we must take into account the local "culture and working customs" - anything can happen.

The good news, in my opinion, is the ASEAN agrrement will have an effect - until the Thai law is changed to stop THAT part. Also most big importers are VERY WELL CONNECTED and will find ways to reduce the tax burden sooner or later.

[GrantSmith]

Each bottle is being taxed differently. They are, essentially, taxing them according to their real value. This was supposed to be the case, but many peopl eproduced dodgy invoices thus reducing the value of the wine and its tax liability. This is why a 2000Euro bottle of wine will not have changed too much as it would be very easy to check the costs. Whereas a 2 Euro, could be harder to prove - Volume discount, bin end specials etc... Also we must take into account the local "culture and working customs" - anything can happen.

 

The good news, in my opinion, is the ASEAN agrrement will have an effect - until the Thai law is changed to stop THAT part. Also most big importers are VERY WELL CONNECTED and will find ways to reduce the tax burden sooner or later.

Yes it's an interesting time in the liquor world...

The price at which you are to be taxed is going to be the key to the city - so to speak - the Government is going to need to synchronise a number of departments computer systems in order to prevent it - the key unlocking the door - from being legally exploited.

I heard from a reputable source that a certain - prominent - player (whose product is overpriced, for what it is) had a recent meeting with a certain government minister at a certain city hotel to discuss the tax. Even said minister - a 'patron' of the industry - could not do anything about it.

Something along the lines of it applying to everyone and not selectively. Despite this ministers frontal appearance, I tip my hat to him for this stance.

At face value, this new tax equation determining the tax can be worked around.

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[eezergood]

Each bottle is being taxed differently. They are, essentially, taxing them according to their real value. This was supposed to be the case, but many peopl eproduced dodgy invoices thus reducing the value of the wine and its tax liability. This is why a 2000Euro bottle of wine will not have changed too much as it would be very easy to check the costs. Whereas a 2 Euro, could be harder to prove - Volume discount, bin end specials etc... Also we must take into account the local "culture and working customs" - anything can happen.

The good news, in my opinion, is the ASEAN agrrement will have an effect - until the Thai law is changed to stop THAT part. Also most big importers are VERY WELL CONNECTED and will find ways to reduce the tax burden sooner or later.

Yes it's an interesting time in the liquor world...

The price at which you are to be taxed is going to be the key to the city - so to speak - the Government is going to need to synchronise a number of departments computer systems in order to prevent it - the key unlocking the door - from being legally exploited.

I heard from a reputable source that a certain - prominent - player (whose product is overpriced, for what it is) had a recent meeting with a certain government minister at a certain city hotel to discuss the tax. Even said minister - a 'patron' of the industry - could not do anything about it.

Something along the lines of it applying to everyone and not selectively. Despite this ministers frontal appearance, I tip my hat to him for this stance.

At face value, this new tax equation determining the tax can be worked around.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Could you PM me regarding this matter? This is interesting to me

[GrantSmith]

 

Each bottle is being taxed differently. They are, essentially, taxing them according to their real value. This was supposed to be the case, but many peopl eproduced dodgy invoices thus reducing the value of the wine and its tax liability. This is why a 2000Euro bottle of wine will not have changed too much as it would be very easy to check the costs. Whereas a 2 Euro, could be harder to prove - Volume discount, bin end specials etc... Also we must take into account the local "culture and working customs" - anything can happen.

 

The good news, in my opinion, is the ASEAN agrrement will have an effect - until the Thai law is changed to stop THAT part. Also most big importers are VERY WELL CONNECTED and will find ways to reduce the tax burden sooner or later.

Yes it's an interesting time in the liquor world...

The price at which you are to be taxed is going to be the key to the city - so to speak - the Government is going to need to synchronise a number of departments computer systems in order to prevent it - the key unlocking the door - from being legally exploited.

I heard from a reputable source that a certain - prominent - player (whose product is overpriced, for what it is) had a recent meeting with a certain government minister at a certain city hotel to discuss the tax. Even said minister - a 'patron' of the industry - could not do anything about it.

Something along the lines of it applying to everyone and not selectively. Despite this ministers frontal appearance, I tip my hat to him for this stance.

At face value, this new tax equation determining the tax can be worked around.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

Could you PM me regarding this matter? This is interesting to me

PM sent as requested...

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[churchill]

On Samui Bodegas 3Lts up from 715 Baht to 930 Baht this month and another 200 baht increase next month ..... so up over 50%

and now overpriced imo ...

Anything else worth considering , I did't like Cedar Creek when I last tried in over a year ago ..has it improved ?

Montclair looked as if the price was the same ? but I cannot drink it

Anything else ?

[xylophone]

On Samui Bodegas 3Lts up from 715 Baht to 930 Baht this month and another 200 baht increase next month ..... so up over 50%

and now overpriced imo ...

Anything else worth considering , I did't like Cedar Creek when I last tried in over a year ago ..has it improved ?

Montclair looked as if the price was the same ? but I cannot drink it

Anything else ?

Already paying 1099 baht for the Bodegas in Patong Big C!!

The Cedar Creek didn't do it for me either.

I do like to have some box wine at the ready for the occasional glass, so I tried the Berri Estate (Eeezergood mentioned it a few posts back) and to my surprise at 699 baht it was OK.........somewhere between Montclair and Bodegas, so may well switch to that to supplement the bottle wines I have.

By the way, the Belleville French red is still the same price (299 baht) at Villa Market and IMO represents the best value out there, AND they have just released an Aussie version called Belleville "Big Red" at the same price. Quite how they've managed to release it at that price is "a mystery".

[churchill]

On Samui Bodegas 3Lts up from 715 Baht to 930 Baht this month and another 200 baht increase next month ..... so up over 50%

and now overpriced imo ...

Anything else worth considering , I did't like Cedar Creek when I last tried in over a year ago ..has it improved ?

Montclair looked as if the price was the same ? but I cannot drink it

Anything else ?

Already paying 1099 baht for the Bodegas in Patong Big C!!

The Cedar Creek didn't do it for me either.

I do like to have some box wine at the ready for the occasional glass, so I tried the Berri Estate (Eeezergood mentioned it a few posts back) and to my surprise at 699 baht it was OK.........somewhere between Montclair and Bodegas, so may well switch to that to supplement the bottle wines I have.

By the way, the Belleville French red is still the same price (299 baht) at Villa Market and IMO represents the best value out there, AND they have just released an Aussie version called Belleville "Big Red" at the same price. Quite how they've managed to release it at that price is "a mystery".

Thanks for the tip ... I just noticed the Berri Estates in Tesco , under 700 Baht , looks good value ...I missed the buying time by 5 Minutes

So next time ..

Why have some wines gone up so much and others not ?

[xylophone]

Quote churchill: "Why have some wines gone up so much and others not?"

TIT!!!!!

[churchill]

Berri 649 Baht at Big C not too bad , best of the low priced bunch imo , and considering it is now half the price of Bodegas much better value ...So will be have to switch

[Bcgardener]

Berri is considered the bottom rung of box wines in Australia so it would need to be cheap to drink it. It is the drink of choice for alchoholics and where alchoholism is a problem with the aboriginal people. It definately has a poor reputation. Bodegas has gone to 1050 Baht where I shop in Pattaya but they have a new Australian box wine in an unusual hexagonal shaped box. It's called Fish Eye and I have tried the Chardonnay and also the pinot noir (they also do a shiraz) and they are not a bad everyday drinking wine. All priced around 750 Baht for 3 litres.

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[xylophone]

Berri is considered the bottom rung of box wines in Australia so it would need to be cheap to drink it. It is the drink of choice for alchoholics and where alchoholism is a problem with the aboriginal people. It definately has a poor reputation. Bodegas has gone to 1050 Baht where I shop in Pattaya but they have a new Australian box wine in an unusual hexagonal shaped box. It's called Fish Eye and I have tried the Chardonnay and also the pinot noir (they also do a shiraz) and they are not a bad everyday drinking wine. All priced around 750 Baht for 3 litres.

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Oh well, looks like I'll be joining the ranks of the alcoholics unless "Fish Eye" comes to the rescue!!

Anyway things do change as at one time Gin was the cheap choice of the drunks and ladies of the night, but now elevated somewhat and a Gin & tonic is the choice of many hi-so folk!!

Seriously, IMO the Berri Estate is ok for the everyday glass or two and a lot better than some bottled stuff I've tasted here.

[GrantSmith]

hahaha the day Berri Estate "silver pillows" become the beverage of choice amongst high society, the world will, indeed, be over!

My palate squirms at the very notion...

[stuarty]

"Seriously, IMO the Berri Estate is ok for the everyday glass or two."

Oh dear old boy, I think I will need to take all of your advice up to this point with a large pinch of salt, if you are in any way advocating the "Abo's briefcase" as in any way a half decent tipple. Perhaps you're just an opinionated barroom bore cheap charlie. A connoisseur of the bottom rung. Oh dear oh dear oh dear.

[xylophone]

"Seriously, IMO the Berri Estate is ok for the everyday glass or two."

Oh dear old boy, I think I will need to take all of your advice up to this point with a large pinch of salt, if you are in any way advocating the "Abo's briefcase" as in any way a half decent tipple. Perhaps you're just an opinionated barroom bore cheap charlie. A connoisseur of the bottom rung. Oh dear oh dear oh dear.

Up to you as the saying goes!!

There are plenty of bottled wines here that would be around the same as the Berri Estate, many worse I may add.

You may take my "advice up to this point" with a large pinch of whatever you like, it's of no consequence to me. Having wined and dined in Michelin star restaurants and tasted some of the finest wines in the world, as well as making it a hobby, I have no problem with giving my opinion on wines from the bottom rung to the top.......the "wine snobs" may not like it of course!

PS. The Gin comment was "tongue in cheek"!!!!

[Bikkii]

If you were a person and you travelled from say Australia or Europe to Thailand by boat, subjected to massive tempreture swings and bounced around on the decks of a ship and on the back of a truck for days at a time, my guess is you'd finish your journey in a somewhat of a worse state than when you started, imgaine how the wine feels! And you wonder why you can't get decent wine here.

I would say the 400% tax on wines would be more the real issue wouldn't you?

[GiantFan]

If you were a person and you travelled from say Australia or Europe to Thailand by boat, subjected to massive tempreture swings and bounced around on the decks of a ship and on the back of a truck for days at a time, my guess is you'd finish your journey in a somewhat of a worse state than when you started, imgaine how the wine feels! And you wonder why you can't get decent wine here.

I would say the 400% tax on wines would be more the real issue wouldn't you?

+1

[Bcgardener]

"Seriously, IMO the Berri Estate is ok for the everyday glass or two."

 

Oh dear old boy, I think I will need to take all of your advice up to this point with a large pinch of salt, if you are in any way advocating the "Abo's briefcase" as in any way a half decent tipple. Perhaps you're just an opinionated barroom bore cheap charlie. A connoisseur of the bottom rung. Oh dear oh dear oh dear.

You learn something everyday... I thought it was called a Gin's handbag ( not sure about the spelling)

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[xylophone]

Tried a Tasmanian wine, Velo Cab/Merlot along with an Aussie blockbuster which I'd never heard of before, called Thorn-Clarke Barossa Shiraz.

The Velo (2009) was superb with the Cabernet Sauvignon being prominent on the nose and on the palate, giving some Blackcurrant aromas, with the Merot adding some soft plummy type aromas. One of the best wines I have tasted of late, whereas the Thorn-Clarke Barossa Shiraz was a "beast" of a wine at 14.5% and with such strong aromas as to make me initially think there was a fault with the wine. Imagine a concentrated dark cherry aroma with perhaps cinnamon or the like coming through quite strongly, and on the palate the tannins were big but not harsh – – – not my style of wine but one which some folk like and some Aussie winemakers seemed to revel in.

The pick for me was the Tasmanian Velo and I will have to hunt round to see if I can find it anywhere on the island.

[GrantSmith]

That Thorn Clarke stuff is indeed a beast, a typical Barossa Alpha Male Shiraz.. Not surprised you found the Cab-Merlot more appealing... Smooth and Suave vs Alpha Male... Tassie's doing some amazing stuff at the moment, hearing good things about a new winery called Tolpuddle which is a new venture for Shaw + Smith..

Just cracked the first bottle for the night, a Hewitson Shiraz Marsenne Rousanne, also Barossa. 92% Shiraz, which I think's probably about 15% too much! the Marsenne and Rousanne can't mellow it out enough...

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[stuarty]

"You learn something everyday... I thought it was called a Gin's handbag ( not sure about the spelling)"

There's no such thing as a gin's handbag, as that would make no sense at all, and is clearly not funny on any level or in any way, and not clever, hip or smart, so nobody would ever say that in intelligent company. It is an abo's handbag. Take it from me, I visit Darwin regularly

Xylo and grant - you jokers need to get over your own pretentiousness. Grant- how about 19%, or 18? why don't you drop a note to the winemaker, or anyone else who might be able to change the mix to your pleasure

[GrantSmith]

And calling it an "ambo's handbag" makes it sooooo much cooler..

As for "pretentiousness", you need to have a look at yourself...

Xylophone appears (I say that because I've never met him or had a drink with him) to know what he's talking about...

As for my stated opinion on the wine, I've got no issues with relaying my views to the owner or the winemaking team. He actually already has these, as he does with all his wines. We'll actually be catching up in January and we'll review it again. It might've been a number of factors that contributed to the wine tasting the way it did. Could've simply been that bottle I had. It's all taken in stride. Unfortunately it's first impressions that count.


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[Bcgardener]

"You learn something everyday... I thought it was called a Gin's handbag ( not sure about the spelling)" 

 

There's no such thing as a gin's handbag, as that would make no sense at all, and is clearly not funny on any level or in any way, and not clever, hip or smart, so nobody would ever say that in intelligent company. It is an abo's handbag. Take it from me, I visit Darwin regularly

 

Xylo and grant - you jokers need to get over your own pretentiousness. Grant- how about 19%, or 18? why don't you drop a note to the winemaker, or anyone else who might be able to change the mix to your pleasure

 

My apologies Stuarty, I stand corrected. Still not going to drink Berri Estates though. Sitting at swampy waiting for my flight to Perth, followed by Sydney on Monday. No Berri Estates on my drink list when I get there. I can assure you of that!

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[eezergood]

'Tassies' are indeed soing some amazing things, such as the ability to breath underwater & have the need for very special hats!

[xylophone]

"You learn something everyday... I thought it was called a Gin's handbag ( not sure about the spelling)"

There's no such thing as a gin's handbag, as that would make no sense at all, and is clearly not funny on any level or in any way, and not clever, hip or smart, so nobody would ever say that in intelligent company. It is an abo's handbag. Take it from me, I visit Darwin regularly

Xylo and grant - you jokers need to get over your own pretentiousness. Grant- how about 19%, or 18? why don't you drop a note to the winemaker, or anyone else who might be able to change the mix to your pleasure

My apologies Stuarty, I stand corrected. Still not going to drink Berri Estates though. Sitting at swampy waiting for my flight to Perth, followed by Sydney on Monday. No Berri Estates on my drink list when I get there. I can assure you of that!

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I think it is important to remember a couple of things before certain members get a little "snobby" about wine. The first one being that Australia is spoilt by the quality of its wine, and this might come as a surprise to those posters who are too parochial, that there are millions of litres of wine drunk throughout the world from the likes of France, Spain, Italy and the USA to name but a few, which would not be as good as Berri Estates (shock, horror).

Secondly, the start of Australia's push into Europe with regards to wine exports came from what was considered in those days a "bottom rung" wine and was surplus to requirements in Australia. It was not wanted and couldn't be sold in Australia, so was bottled with a joke label put on it and exported to the UK at a phenomenally low price – – in fact I remember buying it in the UK in 1976/7 for £1.65.

It was "Kanga Rouge" and although in subsequent years the wine quality in the bottle improved, in the early days it was pure surplus, unwanted, lower quality wine. And the reason it took off and bought attention to Australian wine was because it was (even for a low quality wine) fruit driven,clean, had some body and was consistent, unlike the offerings from the European countries which tended to be weak and insipid and varied from vintage to vintage. Then of course there was price which made it irresistible in comparison to the other offerings.

So, my point is, if one is a wine aficionado then the above is fully accepted; if one is not and wants to post character slurs and unsavoury comments, then is quite obvious what they are.

[eezergood]

"You learn something everyday... I thought it was called a Gin's handbag ( not sure about the spelling)"

There's no such thing as a gin's handbag, as that would make no sense at all, and is clearly not funny on any level or in any way, and not clever, hip or smart, so nobody would ever say that in intelligent company. It is an abo's handbag. Take it from me, I visit Darwin regularly

Xylo and grant - you jokers need to get over your own pretentiousness. Grant- how about 19%, or 18? why don't you drop a note to the winemaker, or anyone else who might be able to change the mix to your pleasure

My apologies Stuarty, I stand corrected. Still not going to drink Berri Estates though. Sitting at swampy waiting for my flight to Perth, followed by Sydney on Monday. No Berri Estates on my drink list when I get there. I can assure you of that!

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I think it is important to remember a couple of things before certain members get a little "snobby" about wine. The first one being that Australia is spoilt by the quality of its wine, and this might come as a surprise to those posters who are too parochial, that there are millions of litres of wine drunk throughout the world from the likes of France, Spain, Italy and the USA to name but a few, which would not be as good as Berri Estates (shock, horror).

Secondly, the start of Australia's push into Europe with regards to wine exports came from what was considered in those days a "bottom rung" wine and was surplus to requirements in Australia. It was not wanted and couldn't be sold in Australia, so was bottled with a joke label put on it and exported to the UK at a phenomenally low price – – in fact I remember buying it in the UK in 1976/7 for £1.65.

It was "Kanga Rouge" and although in subsequent years the wine quality in the bottle improved, in the early days it was pure surplus, unwanted, lower quality wine. And the reason it took off and bought attention to Australian wine was because it was (even for a low quality wine) fruit driven,clean, had some body and was consistent, unlike the offerings from the European countries which tended to be weak and insipid and varied from vintage to vintage. Then of course there was price which made it irresistible in comparison to the other offerings.

So, my point is, if one is a wine aficionado then the above is fully accepted; if one is not and wants to post character slurs and unsavoury comments, then is quite obvious what they are.

The snobbery around wine, has been & always will be total rubbish. I suspect each & every poster here has been to a bar in an entertainment district and drunk cocktails. These spirits are 1 step above bathtub gin, but no one says a word.

As the saying goes, I dont know much but i know what I like!

[churchill]

Berri I think is OK ... just ! , light and fruity , better than Montclair and Cedar Creek ..

& so who drinks Cedar Creek in Australia if Berri is considered the lowest ?

but better , I think , Mar Sol , from Chile , 4L box under 800 baht from tesco ..

[xylophone]

Berri I think is OK ... just ! , light and fruity , better than Montclair and Cedar Creek ..

& so who drinks Cedar Creek in Australia if Berri is considered the lowest ?

but better , I think , Mar Sol , from Chile , 4L box under 800 baht from tesco ..

Agree with that mr churchill, and also better than "Jimberroo" in my opinion.

Have not tasted the Mar Y Sol from Chile, but may well give it a try after your comment. By the way, did you know that it is imported in bulk by Siam Wines and "bottled" over here, in much the same way as Montclair and Berri Estates.

I have noticed that Siam Wines are doing this with more and more wines and one called "Cask 88" (I think that's it) by kookaburra wines is selling in 2 litre bottles in Villa Market and I suspect we will see more of that to get round the tax situation.

Towards the other end of the scale, I have noticed that the previously cheaper wines have increased by anything up to 70%, whereas the more expensive ones seem to have had minor increases. I have noticed that Taylor's Promised Land is still selling for around 685 baht, the same price as the much inferior wine "The Pump" which makes it a no-brainer.

Luckily my latest wine of choice, a Valpolicella Classico Ripasso hasn't increased, although at 1250 baht per bottle I don't buy too many of them!!