13 Thais Charged For Cheating Marina Bay Sands Casino In $1.2M Baccarat Scam

[GrantSmith]

jbrain - How many casinos do you know in Thailand that go by the name "Marina Bay Sands"?

Irrespective of where this news item was placed the fact that it mentioned 1. Casinos, 2. Marina Bay Sands and 3. The link given was from www.straitstimes.com.SG pretty much indicates that it wasn't in Thailand, hence saving face is irrelevant...

Satcomlee There are 2 "integrated resorts" in Singapore, the other being "Resorts World Sentosa".

Entry is free for foreigners - bringing your passport for verification is generally the acceptable way to prove you're not a local/PR...

[Thaddeus]

Card counting is only classed as cheating by casino owners.

[steveromagnino]

there are a couple of ways speaking as a former dealer.

1. a cooler

switch the entire shoe for a predetermined 6/8 deck set of cards which are played in a specific order (easy in baccarat)

requires a dealer to participate; extremely tricky to pull off

illegal

2. finding a dealer with an incomplete or poor shuffle technique

play out the cards using shuffle tracking; it's incomplete, but aim is to find low and high card 'veins' in the shuffled deck

doesn't require a dealer to participate; requires either outstanding maths and practice or a computer to assist - computer is illegal, remembering is not

legal by brain; illegal by computer/aid

3. steering cards with a dealer with incomplete or poor shuffle technique

play out the cards similar to shuffle tracking with the direct aim of knowing specific cards by seeing the order of cards ahead of them; in the discards let's say the order is K-A-8; following a shuffle we know that these 3 cards are separated by 4 cards each, so if we knew that 2 cards earlier the A came out, then following the burn cards, the player is going to receive the 8 so you would play the player, as starting with an 8 is a major advantage in baccarat

doesn't require a dealer to participate; requires either outstanding maths and practice or a computer to assist - computer is illegal, remembering is not

legal by brain; illegal by computer/aid

I'm guessing they were caught using an aid.

[nachiket]

Casinos worldwide have problem if customers are winning.

And, $1.2M is a huge amount to file a complaint.

I have doubt about the following.

They apparently devised a fraudulent scheme in which they knew the sequence of the cards in advance.

[Docno]

Another six Thai men were charged on Monday with cheating the Marina Bay Sands casino of nearly $1.2 million.

On Saturday, eight alleged accomplices, comprising four men and four women, were charged. Seven were Thai nationals while one was a Laotian man.

All 14 are remanded for further investigations. The eight foreigners charged earlier will return to court on Friday while the case against the latest six in the dock will be mentioned again next Monday.

Where at once 8 foreigners come from ?

Oh I know already, from the saving face part of the story.

Huh? I don't understand. There is no inconsistency here. More may be charged as investigations continue. The source is the Singapore media... no reason for 'face saving' for thais.

[Thai at Heart]

there are a couple of ways speaking as a former dealer.

1. a cooler

switch the entire shoe for a predetermined 6/8 deck set of cards which are played in a specific order (easy in baccarat)

requires a dealer to participate; extremely tricky to pull off

illegal

2. finding a dealer with an incomplete or poor shuffle technique

play out the cards using shuffle tracking; it's incomplete, but aim is to find low and high card 'veins' in the shuffled deck

doesn't require a dealer to participate; requires either outstanding maths and practice or a computer to assist - computer is illegal, remembering is not

legal by brain; illegal by computer/aid

3. steering cards with a dealer with incomplete or poor shuffle technique

play out the cards similar to shuffle tracking with the direct aim of knowing specific cards by seeing the order of cards ahead of them; in the discards let's say the order is K-A-8; following a shuffle we know that these 3 cards are separated by 4 cards each, so if we knew that 2 cards earlier the A came out, then following the burn cards, the player is going to receive the 8 so you would play the player, as starting with an 8 is a major advantage in baccarat

doesn't require a dealer to participate; requires either outstanding maths and practice or a computer to assist - computer is illegal, remembering is not

legal by brain; illegal by computer/aid

I'm guessing they were caught using an aid.

Funny how they bar card counters though isn't it. Perfectly legal, and yet, casinos have a fit about it.

[MobileContent]

How did they get into the casino in the first place, I know the casino in question and you have to be Singaporean or permanent resident!

I know cos they turned me away :-(

Nope, any foreigner can enter a casino. They couldn' make money of only Singaporean's and PR's. Many of them are from mainland China, Malaysia, Indonesia and Taiwan.

You might have stayed in the wrong line. Singaporean PR and locals have a different line to enter and as far as I know Singaporean have to pay some kind of entry fee.

Edited May 14, 2013 by MobileContent

[Docno]

Great. The Thais already have a poor reputation here in Singapore and they make entry to the country tougher than perhaps for any other nationality (other than perhaps Filipinas). They used to hire large numbers of Thais for construction work, but they have been largely replaced by Bangladeshis ... supposedly the Thai workers were too prone to drunkenness and fighting (Bangladeshis are Muslim, so drunkenness is not a problem). The Thai working girls at Orchard Towers have been replaced by Vietnamese for reasons I'm not exactly clear on ... I never partook, but the Thai ladies did give the place a more joyful atmosphere than the more serious and 'business-minded' Vietnamese. And now we have Thai tourists associated with high-profile crime. Just great....

[MobileContent]

.

It's expensive there for the opportunity to lose money in a casino, but then again I read recently that one out of every six Singaporeans is a millionaire in USD terms.

"The daily entry levy is $100, and is valid for 24 consecutive hours starting from the time of first entry into the casino. The daily entry levy will expire if entry has not taken place by the end of the 30th day after the date of purchase. During the permitted 24 hours you may enter and exit the casino freely. If you purchased the annual, $2,000 levy, the annual entry levy is valid for 12 months starting from either (a) the time of first entry into the casino, or ( 90 days after the date of payment, whichever is earlier."

This can't be possible that one of out of 6 Singaporean has a million US dollars. More 6 out of a hundred at most.

[jefro]

Ha, cool. I don't know anything about that specific game (just Burt), but surely one of the 14 must have been a dealer? I'm not buying the "they knew the order of the cards" story. How could you order the cards without the pit boss knowing anything or the cameras seeing it?

1.3 Mill, wow. They got greedy. Should have stopped earlier, although I'm sure the casino would still have figured it out.

Dealer was in on it.

Called a "slug".

[sausageandmash]

They'd better pray that Joe Pesci isn't waiting for them. "You g@#ks think you can come and try and rip off my casino. Is that what you're saying? is it?

Let's hope no-one is carrying a pen. Ouch!

[Rosco911]

Cheating is against the law but has to be proven.

[DLock]

.

It's expensive there for the opportunity to lose money in a casino, but then again I read recently that one out of every six Singaporeans is a millionaire in USD terms.

"The daily entry levy is $100, and is valid for 24 consecutive hours starting from the time of first entry into the casino. The daily entry levy will expire if entry has not taken place by the end of the 30th day after the date of purchase. During the permitted 24 hours you may enter and exit the casino freely. If you purchased the annual, $2,000 levy, the annual entry levy is valid for 12 months starting from either (a) the time of first entry into the casino, or ( 90 days after the date of payment, whichever is earlier."

This can't be possible that one of out of 6 Singaporean has a million US dollars. More 6 out of a hundred at most.

Opening my computer - 30 seconds

Typing a Google query on "How many millionaires in Singapore" - 3 seconds

Saving me from looking stupid forever - Priceless.

First 3 Google results.

http://blogs.wsj.com/searealtime/2012/06/01/singapore-no-1-for-millionaires-again/

http://business.blogs.cnn.com/2011/06/01/where-are-the-most-millionaires-next-door/

http://www.businessweek.com/investor/content/jun2011/pi2011062_946842.htm

[atyclb]

Another six Thai men were charged on Monday with cheating the Marina Bay Sands casino of nearly $1.2 million.

On Saturday, eight alleged accomplices, comprising four men and four women, were charged. Seven were Thai nationals while one was a Laotian man.

All 14 are remanded for further investigations. The eight foreigners charged earlier will return to court on Friday while the case against the latest six in the dock will be mentioned again next Monday.

Where at once 8 foreigners come from ?

Oh I know already, from the saving face part of the story.

you are aware that this happened in singapore and your anti-thai rhetoric is misplaced, right?

Amazing farangs in thailand have mastered "the art of missing the point", the skill usually reserved for thais

[ChrisY1]

How did they get into the casino in the first place, I know the casino in question and you have to be Singaporean or permanent resident!

I know cos they turned me away :-(

Not correct.......foreigners need only produce their passport.....Singaporeans need to pay an emtry fee

[KonKorat]

It's ok for casinos to know the outcome but not the players,good luck to them I say.

Casinos suck,i was on a winning streak at the Sydney casino,up 7 grand,then 3 officials came down spoke to me to break my concentration,then when they wern't happy because i kept winning,they closed my table down.they seem to like losers only!!

[chuang]

Knowing the sequence of cards in advance is no cheat, it's rocket science....

[Jimbo]

Docno, on 14 May 2013 - 11:43, said:

Great. The Thais already have a poor reputation here in Singapore and they make entry to the country tougher than perhaps for any other nationality (other than perhaps Filipinas). They used to hire large numbers of Thais for construction work, but they have been largely replaced by Bangladeshis ... supposedly the Thai workers were too prone to drunkenness and fighting (Bangladeshis are Muslim, so drunkenness is not a problem). The Thai working girls at Orchard Towers have been replaced by Vietnamese for reasons I'm not exactly clear on ... I never partook, but the Thai ladies did give the place a more joyful atmosphere than the more serious and 'business-minded' Vietnamese. And now we have Thai tourists associated with high-profile crime. Just great....

I work for one of the largest construction and engineering companies in Singapore. If you ask any sub con or manager they will tell you that Thai workers are among the best general workers as they are actually skilled workers. A lot better then the Indians and Banglas. It is the Indian workers who have problems with alcohol. I have had to kick of 4 guys this year from site for coming to site drunk and all were either Indian or local Indian. Similar trend on other projects as well. The reason why there are fewer Thai workers in Singapore is that recruiters are sending the Thai workers to the Middle East as they can earn a lot more there.

There are plenty of Thai girls around. Just go to Harry's bar outside Orchard Towers, Golden Mile (Thai disco or any of the other venues there), Geylang, KTV's throughout Singapore or one of the many Singapore escort sites.

[Sing_Sling]

.

It's expensive there for the opportunity to lose money in a casino, but then again I read recently that one out of every six Singaporeans is a millionaire in USD terms.

"The daily entry levy is $100, and is valid for 24 consecutive hours starting from the time of first entry into the casino. The daily entry levy will expire if entry has not taken place by the end of the 30th day after the date of purchase. During the permitted 24 hours you may enter and exit the casino freely. If you purchased the annual, $2,000 levy, the annual entry levy is valid for 12 months starting from either (a) the time of first entry into the casino, or ( 90 days after the date of payment, whichever is earlier."

This can't be possible that one of out of 6 Singaporean has a million US dollars. More 6 out of a hundred at most.

Reason being that even HDBs (Housing Development Board, Publicly built housing which is privately owned) are heading ever upwards . . . and many of the region's wealthy park their dollars there - as well as their children for schooling.

Problem, of course, is that if you sell (which you can't freely with HDBs) you must buy somewhere . . . and the banks own it anyway.

When we moved to Singapore - were sent more like it - about 11-12 years ago now we bought a three-bedroom condo in Bukit Timah for $380k . . . the same one now is well over 1.5mil . . . wish we wouldn't have sold it a few years ago for much less than that

[belg]

do they mean card counting ? how they knew the sequency in advance?

[OxfordWill]

re: millionnaires in singapore- I think its is per household. So 1 in every 6 households, not 1 in every 6 people. Bear in mind, in great parts of the city, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8+ live in one tiny flat.

Edited May 14, 2013 by OxfordWill

[RubbaJohnny]

About time Thais had their own legal casinos to scam each other.

I doubt the very succesful current "operators" will relish the competitio

[kkerry]

 

.

It's expensive there for the opportunity to lose money in a casino, but then again I read recently that one out of every six Singaporeans is a millionaire in USD terms.

"The daily entry levy is $100, and is valid for 24 consecutive hours starting from the time of first entry into the casino. The daily entry levy will expire if entry has not taken place by the end of the 30th day after the date of purchase. During the permitted 24 hours you may enter and exit the casino freely. If you purchased the annual, $2,000 levy, the annual entry levy is valid for 12 months starting from either (a) the time of first entry into the casino, or ( 90 days after the date of payment, whichever is earlier."

This can't be possible that one of out of 6 Singaporean has a million US dollars. More 6 out of a hundred at most.

Opening my computer - 30 seconds

Typing a Google query on "How many millionaires in Singapore" - 3 seconds

Saving me from looking stupid forever - Priceless.

First 3 Google results.

http://blogs.wsj.com/searealtime/2012/06/01/singapore-no-1-for-millionaires-again/

http://business.blogs.cnn.com/2011/06/01/where-are-the-most-millionaires-next-door/

http://www.businessweek.com/investor/content/jun2011/pi2011062_946842.htm

 

Millionaire households is what the figures in the articles refer to so one in six Singapore residents are not millionaires, doubt it would even be one in twenty-five as many households have four or more people all living in one small but often expensive apartment.

[Beetlejuice]

13 cheating Thais, charged with conning a mafia owned, robbing, cheating casino.

One way or another these 13 people will receive the death penalty. Either discretely or officially via the so-call legal system.

[Sing_Sling]

13 cheating Thais, charged with conning a mafia owned, robbing, cheating casino.

One way or another these 13 people will receive the death penalty. Either discretely or officially via the so-call legal system.

Umm. . . ok . . . if you say so

[jackspratt]

13 cheating Thais, charged with conning a mafia owned, robbing, cheating casino.

One way or another these 13 people will receive the death penalty. Either discretely or officially via the so-call legal system.

Thanks for the clarification.

It has been obvious for years that the Singapore government has a strong link with the "mafia".

It just took one of TVF's best and brightest to point this out.

[dighambara]

Casinogames are designed to give the house statistically better odds.

Everyone knows this.

However, human beings have an instinctive need to forrage against failure - when seeking a certain outcome, failure leads us to seek harder - as in hunting.

If at first you do not succeed, try, try again - until all your money or time runs out.

[HerbalEd]

Ha, cool. I don't know anything about that specific game (just Burt), but surely one of the 14 must have been a dealer? I'm not buying the "they knew the order of the cards" story. How could you order the cards without the pit boss knowing anything or the cameras seeing it?

1.3 Mill, wow. They got greedy. Should have stopped earlier, although I'm sure the casino would still have figured it out.

Well somebody saw them, didn't they. Otherwise they would not have been caught.

[mikemac]

" Where at once 8 foreigners come from ?

Oh I know already, from the saving face part of the story."

and

"13 cheating Thais, charged with conning a mafia owned, robbing, cheating casino.

One way or another these 13 people will receive the death penalty. Either discretely or officially via the so-call legal system."

Fee Fi Foe Fum..........I smell rednecks, and nasty ones at that

[ChokDeeMak]

We all there is no such thing as "Cheating the House" The house does not like being Had. Gambling is a Science and Math equation. But they should have changed roles made it a double dose, more Disguises. So many things I have prepared for a situation like this. I am a lucky person (hints my name) but Gambling is a battle. Not easily achieved alone.