Acting Irs Chief Ousted Over Tax Scandal As Obama Vows Change

[JDGRUEN]

The well fed Congress will continue in its zealous partisan political hunt, of that there is no doubt. Beginning June 4th, the House Ways and Means Committee will hold more hearings so the extremist tea party groups and organizations can wail evermore. The Congress remains intransigent.

Meanwhile, the country will move on.

Numerous polls by respected and reputable polling organizations conducted over a period of years consistently show 76% of Americans disapprove of the Congress. The Gallup survey of May 2-7 found only 16% of Americans approve of the Congress.

Ignoring the Fifth Amendment, the Constitution and the Supreme Court's rulings in respect to it only exposes your zeal to politically prosecute.

Other polling by respected and reputable polling organizations show almost 60% of Americans disapprove of the Republican party, its positions on the issues, its behaviors in Washington and in many other ways. The George Mason University's findings simply document some of the reason why - lying in particular.

*Edited out*

Publicus, you are ignoring the clear fact that these people are our employees. You don't have to commit a crime to get fired from a job. You can do any number of underhanded things and get fired. I'd be satisfied if anyone involved in this simply lost his career sucking at the teat of the taxpayer.

You don't seem to want to admit that the House is the legitimate body to oversee this, and to take action even if there was no actual crime. The voters put these people in office to do their job and they are trying to do it. I don't want my representatives following polls to get reelected. I want them to do their jobs.

Now that the ACLJ has filed lawsuits, watch for some answers, good or bad. Jay Sekulow is one of the smartest lawyers in American and one of the most dogged. With a civil lawsuit filed he'll have discovery rights that a court won't ignore. The IRS might play games with congress, but they can't do it with a judge. Government employees will have to show up for depositions or go to jail. They'll have to respond to requests for documents under the rules of discovery.

Discovery is different from a court room. Sekulow will be allowed to demand documents which aren't even relevant to the case "as long as the documents might lead to discovery of other documents which are relevant to the case."

He's going to drive these clammed up federal employees nuts and get to the bottom of this. He has an army of smart lawyers to help him.

Sorry for the bad news, but he filed it in federal court and you can believe he filed it before a judge who's impartial. He's a smart cookie.

Now you can wait for the other shoe to drop because citizens are taking this into their own hands with massive force.

I wish a 'well heeled' Republican supporter would offer a Whistle Blower reward of a Million Dollars or more to get one of the IRS employees to break the log jam with critical and verifiable information.

[JDGRUEN]

IMO - It would seem from the information content of recent posts that in this IRS scandal the obama Administration is being persecuted - but strangely enough it looks to be by a continuing set of self-inflicted wounds.

[NeverSure]

The well fed Congress will continue in its zealous partisan political hunt, of that there is no doubt. Beginning June 4th, the House Ways and Means Committee will hold more hearings so the extremist tea party groups and organizations can wail evermore. The Congress remains intransigent.

Meanwhile, the country will move on.

Numerous polls by respected and reputable polling organizations conducted over a period of years consistently show 76% of Americans disapprove of the Congress. The Gallup survey of May 2-7 found only 16% of Americans approve of the Congress.

Ignoring the Fifth Amendment, the Constitution and the Supreme Court's rulings in respect to it only exposes your zeal to politically prosecute.

Other polling by respected and reputable polling organizations show almost 60% of Americans disapprove of the Republican party, its positions on the issues, its behaviors in Washington and in many other ways. The George Mason University's findings simply document some of the reason why - lying in particular.

*Edited out*

Publicus, you are ignoring the clear fact that these people are our employees. You don't have to commit a crime to get fired from a job. You can do any number of underhanded things and get fired. I'd be satisfied if anyone involved in this simply lost his career sucking at the teat of the taxpayer.

You don't seem to want to admit that the House is the legitimate body to oversee this, and to take action even if there was no actual crime. The voters put these people in office to do their job and they are trying to do it. I don't want my representatives following polls to get reelected. I want them to do their jobs.

Now that the ACLJ has filed lawsuits, watch for some answers, good or bad. Jay Sekulow is one of the smartest lawyers in American and one of the most dogged. With a civil lawsuit filed he'll have discovery rights that a court won't ignore. The IRS might play games with congress, but they can't do it with a judge. Government employees will have to show up for depositions or go to jail. They'll have to respond to requests for documents under the rules of discovery.

Discovery is different from a court room. Sekulow will be allowed to demand documents which aren't even relevant to the case "as long as the documents might lead to discovery of other documents which are relevant to the case."

He's going to drive these clammed up federal employees nuts and get to the bottom of this. He has an army of smart lawyers to help him.

Sorry for the bad news, but he filed it in federal court and you can believe he filed it before a judge who's impartial. He's a smart cookie.

Now you can wait for the other shoe to drop because citizens are taking this into their own hands with massive force.

Yes, maybe now we'll get more specific information as to what exists or does not exist, or what occurred or did not occur.

I haven't read the cause of action, the lawsuit, filed by the ACLJ, but I will. As everyone may know, I'm interested to see exactly and specifically the allegations concerning what of Title 26 USC and Title 26 of the CFR may or may not be in play.

Just don't forget the Fifth Amendment in all of this, even though no Obama-hater actually understands or comprehends it. And don't forget that the people being accused have superior private counsel too, and that the Justice Department lawyers are top notch.

I'd much prefer to see the matter handed in a court of law than by the radical reactionary Republicans in the political hothouse that the Congress is.

This also means that because certain aspects of the matter are in judicial process, maybe all aspects of the matter, public comment by litigants, witnesses, IRS employees and the like - right up to the president - will be either restricted or otherwise curtailed. Things will go silent for some appreciable period of time, starting very soon. And of course the litigation will last a long time, perhaps past the November 2014 midterm election.

I don't think anything will go silent. The ACLJ has filed a civil suit in federal court. The House is apparently interested in criminal actions. They aren't related and they are different jurisdictions.

Discovery is wide open and results are public record. Requests for discovery can be broad and irrelevant. About the only objection a defense attorney can make is that the request is overly broad and vague. Then the plaintiff simply rewords it, or files a motion to compel. Discovery will take a long time and will likely lead to a lot of people even if they aren't involved.

You can't claim the 5th in a civil suit. Sekulow is in the driver's seat. People have to answer his questions in depositions and in requests for documents. They are subpenaed into depositions and they have to show up or be in contempt of court. Judges don't like being disobeyed. If someone doesn't produce records or show up. Sekulow will file a motion to compel and the judge will grant it. Now it's the judge telling them and they'd better do it or they go to jail. The judge will have them dragged in, in handcuffs.

This is just what we needed. No more posturing on either side.

[JDGRUEN]

I see some misunderstandings about the 5th Amendment, which is part of The Bill of Rights.

It does not say a person has the right to remain silent although courts have ruled that they do if speaking would incriminate them. What it says is "...nor shall (he) be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself,..." Link to the whole statement.

So down to brass tacks, the woman acknowledged that it is a criminal case, and refused to say anything that is self-incriminating.

She does have to identify herself so she can't really remain silent. She also gave an opening statement and didn't remain silent.

This isn't about her remaining silent; it's about her refusing to say anything that would incriminate her.

While the burden of proof against her would be upon any accuser, she had the right to remain silent only if speaking would incriminate herself, (only if she was being "a witness against herself") and that's what she did. She stopped speaking only before she incriminated herself in what was then admitted is a criminal case.

The U.S. Supreme Court has held that invoking the Fifth Amendment is always to be ignored by any jury in any and every instance. The Supreme Court has held that invoking the Firth Amendment cannot be taken as a sign or admission of guilt. It is to be disregarded in any proceeding - disregarded wholly and completely.

Congress is a General Court, i.e., it makes laws. A court of law is a Judicial Court - it applies and often interprets the laws enacted by the General Court of the Congress. The U.S. Supreme (Judicial) Court has made clear the Fifth Amendment applies to either a judicial or a general court.

A judicial court is not a place of politics. The General Court of the Congress is all and only about politics. I thank the Founders and the writers of the Constitution for recognizing the principle and practice of self-protection, self-defense. This is especially true in political proceedings conducted by the General Court that is the Congress, because the Congress is a political court.

http://criminal.find...rimination.html

Yes, the Supreme Court did. And why did the subject even come up before the court? Because anyone with half a brain knows that if someone invokes the 5th, he has something to hide. So a jury is supposed to go brainless and ignore the fact that someone invoked the 5th.

I don't agree with your inferred presumption that this is all about politics. I believe there is enough evidence that crimes were committed that there should be a thorough investigation and see where it does or doesn't lead.

I don't think you'd really approve of that type of corruption in the US government if it by chance turned out to be true. Believe me, if this were the other side that was accused, I'd be just as determined to find the truth.

I want the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I have no agenda beyond keeping the government honest. I want this investigated.

IMO - In court the 5th. Amendment is one thing ... in a Congressional hearing it is a bit of another... But in the court of public opinion where government and court rules and sanctions do not apply - a person taking the 5th. (especially a government employee) is most often interpreted as Hiding Something. This is one of those great American freedoms - think for yourself and even 'heaven forbid' say it out loud. What a wonderful thing.

[JDGRUEN]

Poll: President Obama job approval rating down .. (IRS fiasco part of the problem)

“There is overwhelming bipartisan support for a special prosecutor to investigate the IRS,” said Peter Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute. “Voters apparently don’t like the idea of Attorney General Eric Holder investigating the matter himself, perhaps because they don’t exactly think highly of him. Holder gets a negative 23 - 39 percent job approval rating.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/obama-job-approval-poll-92023.html#ixzz2Umgpdg00

[mania]

Doctor Krauthammer has suggested granting Lois Lerner total immunity. She could not take the Fifth and she would be forced to answer the questions of Congress honestly or face perjury charges. That sounds like an excellent way to get to the bottom of this scandal.

You know I rarely watch TV but for some reason I saw that suggestion on TV & it made perfect sense.

The way it was explained really showed it would get things done sooner than later & avoid a lot of double speak

due to the " Ongoing Investigation"

Just clear it out what ever it is.

[JDGRUEN]

More trouble at IRS as audit finds misuse of credit cards

http://watchdog.org/87257/more-trouble-at-irs-audit-of-tax-agency-finds-misuse-of-taxpayer-dollars/

[Publicus]

Poll: President Obama job approval rating down .. (IRS fiasco part of the problem)

“There is overwhelming bipartisan support for a special prosecutor to investigate the IRS,” said Peter Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute. “Voters apparently don’t like the idea of Attorney General Eric Holder investigating the matter himself, perhaps because they don’t exactly think highly of him. Holder gets a negative 23 - 39 percent job approval rating.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/obama-job-approval-poll-92023.html#ixzz2Umgpdg00

The Politico article you link also notes that according to the Gallup Daily Tracking poll, the president has a 50 percent approval and 43 percent disapproval. Both polling organizations cited in the Politico article, Quinnipiac and Gallup are reputable polling organizations, although Gallup has of course been around the block many more times and has been in the big time for much longer than Quinnipiac College.

There seems to be a preference for a special prosecutor as the body politic doesn't trust the unreconstructed wingnuts in the House to pursue the IRS issue and believe the AG Eric Holder isn't objective enough. The wingnuts however have dropped all mention of a special prosecutor given he would be appointed by - AG Eric Holder.

Also, the last special prosecutor, Kenneth Starr, who was appointed to investigate the Clinton-Lewinsky thing, ran off the reservation so wildly and went rampaging for so long, few in Washington want to consider again appointing such an uncontrolled and uncontrollable monster.

No one on the accusatory side at TVF knows or cares, but the Supreme Court has held that the Fifth Amendment clause allowing noncooperation can be used in a civil trial if the citizen believes there is the possibility any testimony given may or might be used against him/her in a criminal proceeding at a later time. Given the loony House investigations are pursuing criminal charges, there likely will be a lot of Fifth Amendment clause assertions in the ACLJ proceeding. The ACLJ suit is not the Sword of Damocles that many at TVF and elsewhere would like to believe it is.

The ACLJ suit requests the judge immediately issue a permanent injunction against the IRS, so we'll get some idea of any biases the judge may have based on this first decision. Prez Obama is completely omitted from the suit. If the ACLJ hasn't anything on the president, who would? The radical House Republicans are going keep at it, apparently indefinitely.

You didn't mention that, as of 21 May, two other groups had filed suit in U.S. District Courts. True the Vote working with the Act Right Legal Foundation has filed suit. So has the Nor Cal Tea Party in association with the Citizens for Self-Governance, this one in U.S. District Court in Cincinnati. These lawsuits from the radical right are already a dime a dozen.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/obama-job-approval-poll-92023.html#ixzz2UnOWutTG

[Baloo22]

On another note, it appears that Mr Holder has stepped in it and will likely lose the AJ position on perjury charges I can only hope that he does jail time and is not allowed to retire with pension or benefits.

Obama campaign adviser David Axelrod called the Justice Department’s surveillance of Fox News chief Washington correspondent James Rosen “disturbing.” It looks very likely that Holder is going to get thrown under the bus by the White House.

This thing keeps on growing.

It is revealing how the comments by Obama are eerily similar to some of the comments by Nixon!

Another interesting parallel is the fine examples of Legislative oversight actions provided by the investigation of the Obama Administration in 2013 by Congressman Darrell Issa and the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform and the investigation of the Nixon Administration in 1973 by Senator Sam J. Irvin and the Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities..

[NeverSure]

Poll: President Obama job approval rating down .. (IRS fiasco part of the problem)

“There is overwhelming bipartisan support for a special prosecutor to investigate the IRS,” said Peter Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute. “Voters apparently don’t like the idea of Attorney General Eric Holder investigating the matter himself, perhaps because they don’t exactly think highly of him. Holder gets a negative 23 - 39 percent job approval rating.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/obama-job-approval-poll-92023.html#ixzz2Umgpdg00

The Politico article you link also notes that according to the Gallup Daily Tracking poll, the president has a 50 percent approval and 43 percent disapproval. Both polling organizations cited in the Politico article, Quinnipiac and Gallup are reputable polling organizations, although Gallup has of course been around the block many more times and has been in the big time for much longer than Quinnipiac College.

There seems to be a preference for a special prosecutor as the body politic doesn't trust the unreconstructed wingnuts in the House to pursue the IRS issue and believe the AG Eric Holder isn't objective enough. The wingnuts however have dropped all mention of a special prosecutor given he would be appointed by - AG Eric Holder.

Also, the last special prosecutor, Kenneth Starr, who was appointed to investigate the Clinton-Lewinsky thing, ran off the reservation so wildly and went rampaging for so long, few in Washington want to consider again appointing such an uncontrolled and uncontrollable monster.

No one on the accusatory side at TVF knows or cares, but the Supreme Court has held that the Fifth Amendment clause allowing noncooperation can be used in a civil trial if the citizen believes there is the possibility any testimony given may or might be used against him/her in a criminal proceeding at a later time. Given the loony House investigations are pursuing criminal charges, there likely will be a lot of Fifth Amendment clause assertions in the ACLJ proceeding. The ACLJ suit is not the Sword of Damocles that many at TVF and elsewhere would like to believe it is.

The ACLJ suit requests the judge immediately issue a permanent injunction against the IRS, so we'll get some idea of any biases the judge may have based on this first decision. Prez Obama is completely omitted from the suit. If the ACLJ hasn't anything on the president, who would? The radical House Republicans are going keep at it, apparently indefinitely.

You didn't mention that, as of 21 May, two other groups had filed suit in U.S. District Courts. True the Vote working with the Act Right Legal Foundation has filed suit. So has the Nor Cal Tea Party in association with the Citizens for Self-Governance, this one in U.S. District Court in Cincinnati. These lawsuits from the radical right are already a dime a dozen.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/obama-job-approval-poll-92023.html#ixzz2UnOWutTG

Somehow I don't think you get the full implication of the rules of discovery. You also dismiss the ACLJ as just another plaintiff along with some other also-rans.

The fact that Obama isn't a defendant is irrelevant. You know danged well that discovery will be aimed at finding out if he was involved. I don't know if he was, but curious minds want to know.

There are ways of wording questions which preclude criminal information which still can lead to more information. A judge will get sick and tired of getting and ruling on motions to compel if defendants routinely refuse to comply with discovery. That judge has to have hearings on each one and make a ruling and anyone who works the judge to death being cagey is likely to get serious sanctions. Judges tend to be type "A" personalities who wield a lot of authority and they are God in their own court, at least in their minds.

Discovery is held with no help from the court. Attorneys are officers of the court and issue their own subpoenas for depositions and for documents. Opposing attorneys and a clerk recorder are all it takes for a deposition, and it isn't held in a courtroom. It more often is held in the deposing attorney's conference room. The rules of discovery expect the parties to cooperate and rarely does a judge expect to be involved. It's not his job. So just start plaguing him with motions to compel after objections, and plague him with hearings for rulings, and he'll get pizzed off and the defendants know that. He'll fine the hell out of someone and tell the "children" to act like adults and comply with discovery. If that doesn't work, someone will spend a weekend in jail. If needed he'll escalate but he won't tolerate the "children."

Now, please go Here and look at the list of successful cases Sekulow has been involved in, and also from that link is the following quote:

"Sekulow has been honored numerous times throughout his career. In 1994, he was named to the National Law Journal’s Power List. In 1997, he was named to the American Lawyer’s Public Sector 45, a list dedicated to legal public servants who have made the most impact in their respective fields. Following this accolade, the National Law Journal placed Sekulow in its "100 Most Influential Lawyers in America" list. Most recently, Legal Times profiled him as one of the "90 Greatest Washington Lawyers of the Last 30 years"."

[Baloo22]

Another black eye for the "the most transparent administration in history."

Attorney General Eric Holder wants to talk to the press but insists that the press cannot report on the meeting.

Multiple media outlets just say no to Eric Holder meeting

Excerpts:

"A growing number of news organizations invited to meet this week with Attorney General Eric Holder to discuss the Justice Department's guidelines governing security leak investigations that involve reporters are refusing the invitation citing the meetings' off-the-record status."

"But by Thursday afternoon, Reuters, Fox News, CNN, McClatchy and Huffington Post had joined the Associated Press and The New York Times in deciding to boycott the
meetings due to their off-the-record status.

"I told folks that I'd be happy to participate if the meeting were on the record. And I offered to bring our First Amendment lawyer with me,"
McClatchy's Washington bureau chief James Asher wrote in an email to Yahoo News. "So far, no response." "

[JDGRUEN]

IRS may have targeted conservatives more broadly

By David Lightman and Kevin G. Hall | McClatchy Washington Bureau

WASHINGTON A group of anti-abortion activists in Iowa had to promise the Internal Revenue Service it wouldn’t picket in front of Planned Parenthood.

Catherine Engelbrecht’s family and business in Texas were audited by the government after her voting-rights group sought tax-exempt status from the IRS.

Retired military veteran Mark Drabik of Nebraska became active in and donated to conservative causes, then found the IRS challenging his church donations.

While the developing scandal over the targeting of conservatives by the tax agency has largely focused to date on its scrutiny of groups with words such as “tea party” or “patriot” in their names, these examples suggest the government was looking at a broader array of conservative groups and perhaps individuals. Their collective experiences at a minimum could spread skepticism about the fairness of a powerful agency that should be above reproach and at worst could point to a secret political vendetta within the government against conservatives.

The emerging stories from real people raise questions about whether the IRS scrutiny extended beyond applicants for tax-exempt status and whether individuals who donated to these tax-exempt organizations or to conservative causes also were targeted

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/05/30/192616/irs-may-have-targeted-conservatives.html#.UafwKEpPHtx#storylink=cpy

[JDGRUEN]

IRS Crosses Green Line

http://freebeacon.com/irs-crosses-green-line/

Pro-Israel groups felt wrath of Obama IRS, WFB investigation reveals

BY: Alana Goodman, May 30, 2013 4:59 am

A Washington Free Beacon investigation has identified at least five pro-Israel organizations that have been audited by the IRS in the wake of a coordinated campaign by White House-allied activist groups in 2009 and 2010.

These organizations, some of which are too afraid of government reprisals to speak publicly, say in interviews with the Free Beacon that they now believe the IRS actions may have been coordinated by the Obama administration.

Many of the charities openly clashed with the Obama administration’s policy of opposing Israeli settlement construction over the so-called “Green Line,” which marks the pre-1967 boundary between Israel and the West Bank and West and East Jerusalem.

[chuckd]

Poll: President Obama job approval rating down .. (IRS fiasco part of the problem)

“There is overwhelming bipartisan support for a special prosecutor to investigate the IRS,” said Peter Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute. “Voters apparently don’t like the idea of Attorney General Eric Holder investigating the matter himself, perhaps because they don’t exactly think highly of him. Holder gets a negative 23 - 39 percent job approval rating.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/obama-job-approval-poll-92023.html#ixzz2Umgpdg00

The Politico article you link also notes that according to the Gallup Daily Tracking poll, the president has a 50 percent approval and 43 percent disapproval. Both polling organizations cited in the Politico article, Quinnipiac and Gallup are reputable polling organizations, although Gallup has of course been around the block many more times and has been in the big time for much longer than Quinnipiac College.

There seems to be a preference for a special prosecutor as the body politic doesn't trust the unreconstructed wingnuts in the House to pursue the IRS issue and believe the AG Eric Holder isn't objective enough. The wingnuts however have dropped all mention of a special prosecutor given he would be appointed by - AG Eric Holder.

Also, the last special prosecutor, Kenneth Starr, who was appointed to investigate the Clinton-Lewinsky thing, ran off the reservation so wildly and went rampaging for so long, few in Washington want to consider again appointing such an uncontrolled and uncontrollable monster.

No one on the accusatory side at TVF knows or cares, but the Supreme Court has held that the Fifth Amendment clause allowing noncooperation can be used in a civil trial if the citizen believes there is the possibility any testimony given may or might be used against him/her in a criminal proceeding at a later time. Given the loony House investigations are pursuing criminal charges, there likely will be a lot of Fifth Amendment clause assertions in the ACLJ proceeding. The ACLJ suit is not the Sword of Damocles that many at TVF and elsewhere would like to believe it is.

The ACLJ suit requests the judge immediately issue a permanent injunction against the IRS, so we'll get some idea of any biases the judge may have based on this first decision. Prez Obama is completely omitted from the suit. If the ACLJ hasn't anything on the president, who would? The radical House Republicans are going keep at it, apparently indefinitely.

You didn't mention that, as of 21 May, two other groups had filed suit in U.S. District Courts. True the Vote working with the Act Right Legal Foundation has filed suit. So has the Nor Cal Tea Party in association with the Citizens for Self-Governance, this one in U.S. District Court in Cincinnati. These lawsuits from the radical right are already a dime a dozen.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/obama-job-approval-poll-92023.html#ixzz2UnOWutTG

Since True the Vote is mentioned as just another "dime a dozen" law suit against the IRS, perhaps some information about the reasoning behind their decision to bring suit be mentioned.

Warning...The following link is an EDITORIAL and could cause permanent harm to liberal minds.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

157 Shulman WH Visits: IRS Fish Rots From The Head

...from the article...

If the IRS vendetta against Tea Party and conservative political and religious groups were the act of rogue agents in a single office — a discredited alibi some administration defenders cling to — perhaps they can explain what happened to Catherine Engelbrecht.

Shortly after Engelbrecht founded True the Vote, which trains election volunteers to help root out voter fraud, and King Street Patriots, a group with ideals similar to the Tea Party, and sought tax-exempt status from the IRS in July 2010 for both groups, she was hit by an onslaught of federal harassment.

After seeing nary a government official in two decades of operation, Engelbrecht and her equipment manufacturing company suddenly had the pleasure of six FBI domestic terrorism inquiries, an IRS visit, two IRS business audits, two IRS personal audits and inspections by both the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and the Labor Department's Occupational Safety and Health Administration.

This was not the work of two rogue agents in Cincinnati. Instead, it suggests a level of coordination and animus that goes above the IRS' Cincinnati office and even above IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman.

Read More At Investor's Business Daily: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/053013-658240-irs-commissioner-shulman-visited-white-house-157-times.htm#ixzz2UpsGTCTZ

[kblaze]

Well that was annoying to scroll down through. Thanks Publicus.

[Publicus]

Well that was annoying to scroll down through. Thanks Publicus.

I'm very sorry.

I'd used up all my time to edit trying to correct the errors of both this Chinese junk made computer (Lenovo, so don't ever buy one) and to deal with the antiquated TVF technology along with the time constraints on editing posts..

I call upon the Mods or Admin to deal with the problem.

Again, my apologies to everyone for the inconvenience and the hassle..

[metisdead]

^^ Posts with messed up formatting or something have been removed.

[Steely Dan]

IRS Crosses Green Line

http://freebeacon.com/irs-crosses-green-line/

Pro-Israel groups felt wrath of Obama IRS, WFB investigation reveals

BY: Alana Goodman, May 30, 2013 4:59 am

A Washington Free Beacon investigation has identified at least five pro-Israel organizations that have been audited by the IRS in the wake of a coordinated campaign by White House-allied activist groups in 2009 and 2010.

These organizations, some of which are too afraid of government reprisals to speak publicly, say in interviews with the Free Beacon that they now believe the IRS actions may have been coordinated by the Obama administration.

Many of the charities openly clashed with the Obama administration’s policy of opposing Israeli settlement construction over the so-called “Green Line,” which marks the pre-1967 boundary between Israel and the West Bank and West and East Jerusalem.

To make matters worse they refused to investigate illegal campaign donations to the previous Obama election campaign from both the West Bank and Gaza strip.

[chuckd]

Public information gleaned from two very long posts previously posted.

1. Right Wing Watch

"A project of People For the American Way dedicated to monitoring and exposing the activities of the right-wing movement.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/american-center-law-justice%20

2. People for the American Way

http://www.pfaw.org/

3. Organizations Funded Directly by George Soros and his Open Society Institute

"People for the American Way: This group opposes the Patriot Act, anti-terrorism measures generally, and the allegedly growing influence of the "religious right."

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1237

[Publicus]

On this first one about Lois Lerner, right wingers shouldn't get their hopes up too high. You'll need to read the whole of the article - it's a reasonably short article, but an interesting one.

IRS Official May Have Unwittingly Lost Right to Silence

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202601440346

• About The National Law Journal Legal Times

http://www.alm.com/about/core-values

Our people are our chief asset. We empower and provide support to achieve excellence and to grow their careers. We treat everyone with respect, fostering teamwork to achieve goals while creating an environment that encourages innovation and that is diverse, supportive, creative and fun.

About Right Wing Watch

People For the American Way's Right Wing Watch is dedicated to monitoring and reporting on the activities of right-wing political organizations, in order to expose the agenda of the extreme Right. We hope that by shedding light on the activities of right-wing organizations, we can expose the risks that their extreme and intolerant agendas present to our country.

People For the American Way is dedicated to making the promise of America real for every American: Equality. Freedom of speech. Freedom of religion.

http://www.pfaw.org/about-us/our-mission-and-vision

[chuckd]

It seems Ms. Lerner has been a busy little bee during her career. Being a political operative seems to come naturally for her.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Republican who ran against Durbin: Lois Lerner told me never to run for office again

4:20 PM 05/30/2013

Patrick Howley

Former Illinois state representative Al Salvi, who ran as a Republican against Democrat Dick Durbin in his state’s 1996 U.S. Senate race, said that embattled IRS official Lois Lerner intimidated him in her then-capacity as a Federal Elections Commission (FEC) official and told him she would drop various complaints against him if he never ran for office again.

Lerner is currently on administrative leave from her position at the IRS, where she oversaw groups’ applications for tax-exempt nonprofit status, and where she admittedly targeted conservative nonprofit groups for extra scrutiny.

Salvi told Illinois Review this week that he went head-to-head with Lerner after his 1996 electoral loss to Durbin, when she was head of the commission’s Enforcement Division. The FEC hit his campaign committee with a small handful of complaints related to a $1.1 million personal loan he made to his campaign in its final weeks.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/30/republican-who-ran-against-durbin-lois-lerner-told-me-never-to-run-for-office-again/#ixzz2Ut9iNAUI

The charges were later dropped and, in another turn of events, Sen. Durbin wrote the IRS in 2010 requesting the IRS look into conservative tax exempt foundations. Didn't Ms. Lerner take over the tax exempt department in 2010?

[chuckd]

On this first one about Lois Lerner, right wingers shouldn't get their hopes up too high. You'll need to read the whole of the article - it's a reasonably short article, but an interesting one.

IRS Official May Have Unwittingly Lost Right to Silence

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202601440346

• About The National Law Journal Legal Times

http://www.alm.com/about/core-values

Our people are our chief asset. We empower and provide support to achieve excellence and to grow their careers. We treat everyone with respect, fostering teamwork to achieve goals while creating an environment that encourages innovation and that is diverse, supportive, creative and fun.

About Right Wing Watch

People For the American Way's Right Wing Watch is dedicated to monitoring and reporting on the activities of right-wing political organizations, in order to expose the agenda of the extreme Right. We hope that by shedding light on the activities of right-wing organizations, we can expose the risks that their extreme and intolerant agendas present to our country.

People For the American Way is dedicated to making the promise of America real for every American: Equality. Freedom of speech. Freedom of religion.

http://www.pfaw.org/about-us/our-mission-and-vision

Why not give us a quick rundown on your first link. You have to be a member and sign in before you can read the article and I really don't want to give my e-mail address to what is very likely an apparatus of the Democrat Party.

PS: You seemed intent on giving information about where Mr. Sekulow gets his revenue so I thought it only fair to provide information that your sources are funded by George Soros, he of the extreme left wing.

[chuckd]

One more post before hitting the hay for the night.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. It seems conservatives aren't the only ones using the 501( c)(4) trick:

"Among the political events Obama has attended: a dinner at Alain Ducasse’s Adour restaurant to benefit Organizing for Action, the 501( c)(4) political organization that evolved out of Obama’s Organizing for America campaign nonprofit;"

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/30/obama-second-term-campaign-activity-three-times-bushs/#ixzz2UtK0GFeS

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2. Ms. Lerner strikes again...

IRS’s Lois Lerner, ‘active member’ of Humane Society, may have delayed investigating group’s tax status

4:20 PM 05/16/2013

Patrick Howley

Investigative Reporter

Lois G. Lerner, the embattled Internal Revenue Service official who apologized for improperly scrutinizing the tax-exempt status of conservative nonprofit groups, is a member of the Humane Society of the United States, a liberal animal advocacy organization.

...and...

The HSUS has been accused of sending less than one percent of its funds to animal shelters, a charge that a spokesman in 2012 would not deny. According to IRS filings, the group took in $148,703,820 in revenue in 2010.

...further...

On May 12, 2010, Republican Missouri Rep. Blaine Luetkemeyer wrote a letter to Lerner, expressing his concerns about the tax-exempt status of the HSUS, which is listed as a 501©(3) nonprofit group.

“The attached information unquestionably demonstrates that [the] HSUS invests a substantial amount of time and money in political campaigns and attempts to influence specific legislation, a clear and direct violation of section 501©(3) of the Internal Revenue Code,” Luetkemeyer wrote in the letter.

...finally...

Lerner has been unresponsive to Luetkemeyer’s office’s repeated requests for status updates on the matter over the past three years.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/16/irs-lois-lerner-humane-society/#ixzz2UtKFHd2h

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3. Finally this little bit on Ms. Lerner's bio.

"Ms. Lerner began her career in government as a staff attorney in the Honor's Program at the United States Department of Justice. She served as a Special Assistant in the U.S. Attorney’s Office where she was lead counsel handling felony and misdemeanor prosecutions. In 1981, Ms. Lerner moved to the Federal Election Commission, serving as the Assistant General Counsel for Enforcement, and ultimately as the Acting General Counsel."

...and the coup de grace...

"Ms. Lerner is a past president of the Council on Governmental Ethics Laws (COGEL)"

http://www.philanthropyjournal.org/irsworkshop

[Publicus]

On this first one about Lois Lerner, right wingers shouldn't get their hopes up too high. You'll need to read the whole of the article - it's a reasonably short article, but an interesting one.




IRS Official May Have Unwittingly Lost Right to Silence
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202601440346

• About The National Law Journal Legal Times

http://www.alm.com/about/core-values

Our people are our chief asset. We empower and provide support to achieve excellence and to grow their careers. We treat everyone with respect, fostering teamwork to achieve goals while creating an environment that encourages innovation and that is diverse, supportive, creative and fun.




About Right Wing Watch
People For the American Way's Right Wing Watch is dedicated to monitoring and reporting on the activities of right-wing political organizations, in order to expose the agenda of the extreme Right. We hope that by shedding light on the activities of right-wing organizations, we can expose the risks that their extreme and intolerant agendas present to our country.
People For the American Way is dedicated to making the promise of America real for every American: Equality. Freedom of speech. Freedom of religion.
http://www.pfaw.org/about-us/our-mission-and-vision

Why not give us a quick rundown on your first link. You have to be a member and sign in before you can read the article and I really don't want to give my e-mail address to what is very likely an apparatus of the Democrat Party.

PS: You seemed intent on giving information about where Mr. Sekulow gets his revenue so I thought it only fair to provide information that your sources are funded by George Soros, he of the extreme left wing.

The first link is to the National Law Journal, which also publishes The Legal Times. Many or most lawyers read one or both as each is akin to the NYT of legal journalism.

The article quotes Robert Kelner, who is head of election and political law practice at Covington & Burling, which you may know as probably the premier law firm in Washington. Covington & Burling certainly is 1, 2 or 3 as law firms go in Washington. Based on my Washington experience, and on C&B's reputation, I'd say number one.

Kelner says Ms Lerner is taking a chance by doing what she did before the Congressional Committee. Kelner says that by making her partial statements before the committee, she has at a minimum taken the risk that the committee would hold her in contempt and that a court would later side with the committee.

Other prominent lawyers interviewed by the NLJ said the case law on the question is that a citizen may not use the Fifth's clause as both a sword and a shield. It's generally agreed the whole matter may come down to splitting legal hairs -. Is her opening statement simply a statement, or is it "testimony." The former would be okay for her, the latter would mean she'd waived her Fifth Amendment clause rights.

In the end Kelner yields to Ms Lerner's attorney William Taylor III, whose law partner just wrote an acclaimed book on the Fifth Amendment.

The next move is with Chairman Issa. If Issa recalls Lerner before the committee, and they continue to clash, the whole of the Republican dominated committee would vote on the matter of a contempt citation. Then the whole of the R controlled House would have to vote. If a contempt citation is voted, the matter would be referred to the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia, who is appointed by Prez Obama. End of process and proceedings on that.

So the matter is condensed into whether Issa and the R's in the House want a big public stink they're unlikely to legally win, or will they let the whole of the matter remain as it is. Unsaid in the article, however, is whether Issa and the R's might see the contempt citations right on through so they might make a public stink about the certain inaction of the U.S. Attorney and his bosses, Eric Holder and Barack Obama.

Darrell Issa has a gangster look and demeanor which causes me to lean in the direction of his being pugnacious, i.e., go for the whole nine yards. You know, obstruction of justice by the AG and the Prez in not pursuing the House's contempt citation, and all of that. The U.S. Attorney belongs to the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia - the judicial branch. That spillover fuzzes up the lines of authority - or maybe not.

I dunno.

EDITED by me to note that George Soros isn't a nonprofit organization, nor is George Soros a tax exempt foundation. He has his structures to provide for charities and the like, but he makes his money the old fashioned way, he earns it in tax PAYING private enterpriseS. Jay Sekulow is a leach on the nonprofit and charitable organizations that are authorized by the laws of the United States.

[NeverSure]

On this first one about Lois Lerner, right wingers shouldn't get their hopes up too high. You'll need to read the whole of the article - it's a reasonably short article, but an interesting one.

IRS Official May Have Unwittingly Lost Right to Silence

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202601440346

• About The National Law Journal Legal Times

http://www.alm.com/about/core-values

Our people are our chief asset. We empower and provide support to achieve excellence and to grow their careers. We treat everyone with respect, fostering teamwork to achieve goals while creating an environment that encourages innovation and that is diverse, supportive, creative and fun.

About Right Wing Watch

People For the American Way's Right Wing Watch is dedicated to monitoring and reporting on the activities of right-wing political organizations, in order to expose the agenda of the extreme Right. We hope that by shedding light on the activities of right-wing organizations, we can expose the risks that their extreme and intolerant agendas present to our country.

People For the American Way is dedicated to making the promise of America real for every American: Equality. Freedom of speech. Freedom of religion.

http://www.pfaw.org/about-us/our-mission-and-vision

Why not give us a quick rundown on your first link. You have to be a member and sign in before you can read the article and I really don't want to give my e-mail address to what is very likely an apparatus of the Democrat Party.

PS: You seemed intent on giving information about where Mr. Sekulow gets his revenue so I thought it only fair to provide information that your sources are funded by George Soros, he of the extreme left wing.

The first link is to the National Law Journal, which also publishes The Legal Times. Many or most lawyers read one or both as each is akin to the NYT of legal journalism.

The article quotes Robert Kelner, who is head of election and political law practice at Covington & Burling, which you may know as probably the premier law firm in Washington. Covington & Burling certainly is 1, 2 or 3 as law firms go in Washington. Based on my Washington experience, and on C&B's reputation, I'd say number one.

Kelner says Ms Lerner is taking a chance by doing what she did before the Congressional Committee. Kelner says that by making her partial statements before the committee, she has at a minimum taken the risk that the committee would hold her in contempt and that a court would later side with the committee.

Other prominent lawyers interviewed by the NLJ said the case law on the question is that a citizen may not use the Fifth's clause as both a sword and a shield. It's generally agreed the whole matter may come down to splitting legal hairs -. Is her opening statement simply a statement, or is it "testimony." The former would be okay for her, the latter would mean she'd waived her Fifth Amendment clause rights.

In the end Kelner yields to Ms Lerner's attorney William Taylor III, whose law partner just wrote an acclaimed book on the Fifth Amendment.

The next move is with Chairman Issa. If Issa recalls Lerner before the committee, and they continue to clash, the whole of the Republican dominated committee would vote on the matter of a contempt citation. Then the whole of the R controlled House would have to vote. If a contempt citation is voted, the matter would be referred to the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia, who is appointed by Prez Obama. End of process and proceedings on that.

So the matter is condensed into whether Issa and the R's in the House want a big public stink they're unlikely to legally win, or will they let the whole of the matter remain as it is. Unsaid in the article, however, is whether Issa and the R's might see the contempt citations right on through so they might make a public stink about the certain inaction of the U.S. Attorney and his bosses, Eric Holder and Barack Obama.

Darrell Issa has a gangster look and demeanor which causes me to lean in the direction of his being pugnacious, i.e., go for the whole nine yards. You know, obstruction of justice by the AG and the Prez in not pursuing the House's contempt citation, and all of that. The U.S. Attorney belongs to the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia - the judicial branch. That spillover fuzzes up the lines of authority - or maybe not.

I dunno.

EDITED by me to note that George Soros isn't a nonprofit organization, nor is George Soros a tax exempt foundation. He has his structures to provide for charities and the like, but he makes his money the old fashioned way, he earns it in tax PAYING private enterpriseS. Jay Sekulow is a leach on the nonprofit and charitable organizations that are authorized by the laws of the United States.

Jay Sekulow would have to pay taxes on any money he earns from the organization just like any CEO would.

Geez, Publicus. Do you have an OCD issue? This is more than 400 posts by people to this thread before any real investigation or discovery at all. No disrespect intended, but the one with the last word here isn't crowned the winner.

Why don't you sit back for a couple of years until the facts come out? Just sayin'

[Publicus]

If there is an impeachable offense, impeach him and be done with it.

Otherwise, please don't waste the world's time on this crapola for the next three years.

But we must eat up all of obama's time in office... keep him dodging and running - out of focus... keep him so busy dodging political bullets that he has no time to do more dastardly things to my country.

This is the mentality and attitude of the far right wingnuts of the country.

They care about the country in their own way. They hate Obama and want to cause all the political harm they can to him. That means continuing to paralyze the country but now in yet another and different way.

The majority of the American people know this attitude, which is why Prez Obama got reelected. And which is why you can't drive Barack Obama from office. Your objections to the Obama presidency are political. Your objections are not based on law, or morality, on the Constitution.

I hope the House votes a contempt citation. The vote along strictly party lines will expose the Republicans and other rightwingnuts to the country and to the world as a partisan ideological gang who use politics to try to nullify the result of the 2012 election.

[Ulysses G.]

The Obama admistration is involved in three different scandals and there is bipartisan support to do something about them. Please cut out the dishonest spin in practicaly every single post.

Across partisan lines, Americans agree that a special prosecutor should investigate charges that the IRS targeted conservative groups, a new Quinnipiac poll finds.

Seventy-six percent of voters want a special prosecutor, including 63 percent of Democrats, 88 percent of Republicans and 78 percent of independent voters.

Across partisan lines, Americans agree that a special prosecutor should investigate charges that the IRS targeted conservative groups, a new Quinnipiac poll finds.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/05/30/poll-americans-want-special-prosecutor-for-irs-scandal/

[Publicus]

The Obama admistration is involved in three different scandals and there is bipartisan support to do something about them. Please cut out the dishonest spin in practicaly every single post.

Across partisan lines, Americans agree that a special prosecutor should investigate charges that the IRS targeted conservative groups, a new Quinnipiac poll finds.

Seventy-six percent of voters want a special prosecutor, including 63 percent of Democrats, 88 percent of Republicans and 78 percent of independent voters.

Across partisan lines, Americans agree that a special prosecutor should investigate charges that the IRS targeted conservative groups, a new Quinnipiac poll finds.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/05/30/poll-americans-want-special-prosecutor-for-irs-scandal/

Then the appointing authority, AG Eric Holder, might be wise to consider appointing a special counsel (the position hasn't been called special prosecutor for a generation or so). The AG is the sole appointing authority, i.e., no confirmation by Congress is needed or required - the AG has absolute authority in the matter.

It's the Republicans in the Congress that don't want a Special Counsel. A Special Counsel will take the investigations, the inquisition, out of their hot political hands. Can you name any Republican in the House or Senate who has spoken to advocate having a Special Counsel? If you can find a Republican in the Congress who advocates this, let us all know, because the R would be 100% out of sync with the Party's 100% political position on the question.

Neither are the R's in Congress going to yield to, or respect, public opinion. Why should the R's in Washington suddenly start to respect the views of the body politic? The R's in Washington haven't respected the views of the American people for many years, so why start now? Especially given that the appointment of a Special Counsel would take the political circus the R's are conducting away from them in favor of legal judicial investigations and processes. The R's in Washington want a free hand politically, not the rule of law in a judicial proceeding.

Ask a Republican in Washington, or a Republican party commentator, political pundit / punter, analyst or whatever whether even one of them wants a Special Counsel appointed. When you stop to think about a Special Counsel, the silence from Republicans throughout the country during this entire matter has been deafening.

The reasons should be clear to everyone by now.

[chuckd]

If there is an impeachable offense, impeach him and be done with it.

Otherwise, please don't waste the world's time on this crapola for the next three years.

But we must eat up all of obama's time in office... keep him dodging and running - out of focus... keep him so busy dodging political bullets that he has no time to do more dastardly things to my country.

This is the mentality and attitude of the far right wingnuts of the country.

They care about the country in their own way. They hate Obama and want to cause all the political harm they can to him. That means continuing to paralyze the country but now in yet another and different way.

The majority of the American people know this attitude, which is why Prez Obama got reelected. And which is why you can't drive Barack Obama from office. Your objections to the Obama presidency are political. Your objections are not based on law, or morality, on the Constitution.

I hope the House votes a contempt citation. The vote along strictly party lines will expose the Republicans and other rightwingnuts to the country and to the world as a partisan ideological gang who use politics to try to nullify the result of the 2012 election.

I expect IF a contempt citations is sought against Lerner it will all be on a party line vote. All the Democrats on the committee will vote against it, even though they might actually be in favor, knowing full well the Republican majority will vote for it, pass it and their respective Democratic butts will be covered in the next election.

The same situation will apply when a full House vote is called. The Republican majority will vote for contempt and the Democratic Representatives will hide under their desks again, just like they did on the Holder contempt citation.

What is needed is for the House Oversight Committee to give Lerner total immunity from prosecution and remove the privilege offered by the 5th Amendment.

Snarky66 and Krauthammer got that one right.

[Ulysses G.]

Can you name any Republican in the House or Senate who has spoken to advocate having a Special Counsel?

Please stop the constant, inaccurate partisan spin.

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) on Sunday called for a special counsel to probe two scandals involving the IRS and the Justice Department, questioning the Obama administration’s ability to police itself. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/05/26/lindsey-graham-calls-for-special-counsel-probe-of-irs-and-justice-dept-scandals/