Skimming – What To Look For

[chrisinth]

I was reading earlier on the Phuket forum about a German visitor who has lost 600,000 baht due to his credit card being “skimmed” at an
ATM, at least that is the most likely cause of lose. I was amazed throughout the thread as to the number of people that this has happened to, and the negative responses from the various banks the ATMs belong to.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/640080-phuket-german-expat-loses-bt600k-to-skimmers/

This thread is about awareness for both visitors and established ex-pats/residents with regards to safe practice money withdrawals
from ATMs and what to be looking for when making the withdrawal. This has got to be a big problem around the commercial areas. The following clip (although American) gives a general idea of what to be looking for.

It would be good for any sensible input from the readers; this could affect anyone that regularly uses ATMs.

[rubberduck]

That German has an issue with his bank, not with skimmers. Banks simply have to accept their responsibilities. As long as that bank does not refund the full amount, they are the ones who stole his money, simple.

[chrisinth]

When setting up your bank accounts in Thailand, regardless of which bank you use, it is advisable to setup a separate account for use with your ATM card, removed from your main account and limited to a lesser amount.

That way if an incident happens at least some damage limitation is in force.

Make sure that the bank contacts you by SMS on every withdrawal. This can further reduce the damage.

[chrisinth]

That German has an issue with his bank, not with skimmers. Banks simply have to accept their responsibilities. As long as that bank does not refund the full amount, they are the ones who stole his money, simple.

Yes RD, I understand that, the thread regarding the German was only referenced as an example.

The main point of this thread is to try and make people aware of the potential risks involved in cash withdrawals and the protection of personal information.

[Gsxrnz]

In addition to the video:

1. If anybody is behind you, give them the evils to back off.

2. Change your PIN number frequently. If you think anybody may have seen your PIN, go and change it.

3. Have the bank send an SMS every time you have a transaction - if you've been skimmed this is the quickest way to find out.

4. If somebody approaches you saying maybe you left some money in the ATM and waves a 100 baht note at you, take the note, run like hell to your bank and get your card cancelled.

5. Use ATM's at a bank if you can - generally safer and more likely to have better security.

6. Don't count your cash before you put it in your wallet or pocket. Keep it hidden and ram it straight in the wallet - anybody seeing you with a fist full of 1,000 notes might be tempted.

Edit: On point 3 - the skimmer may be clever enough to turn off the auto sms before he uses his skimmed card. I check the balance once a day anyway just to be sure (not difficult with an ATM every 20 mtrs on most roads)

Also, don't print a receipt, or if you do, don't leave it lying around. Anybody seeing that you have serious baht in your account might be tempted to twist your arm for the pin number.

I should add that I was skimmed as described in point 4, so am a little paranoid.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Gsxrnz

[chrisinth]

Skimmers are not the only way the fraudsters can get to you.

Generally, skimmers are attached devices to the ATM machine, disguised to look like part of the machine. Some of these can store up to 200 individual credit/debit card details before having to be removed by the hacker and are normally mounted over the card input port. These will collect card details, account details and PIN numbers.

Card traps. These are devices inserted into the card slot which will let the transaction go through, but prevent the card being returned. The card user may leave the scene to report the incident, this is when the fraudster recovers their device & the users card. Normally worked with a web camera mounted to capture the PIN number or someone watching over the users shoulder.

Money traps. Again, an inserted device this time placed inside the dispenser port. This will also let the transaction complete, but will prevent the money being delivered. Once the user leaves the area to report the failure, the fraudster retrieves his device and the money and is gone.

[PalMan]

That German has an issue with his bank, not with skimmers. Banks simply have to accept their responsibilities. As long as that bank does not refund the full amount, they are the ones who stole his money, simple.

Don't assume the consumer protections in place in your home country are available in other parts of the world - this is Thailand and they're not. We're talking about business, pragmatic and legal issues not abstract theories of moral philosophy.

In Thailand even if a bank employee steals the money from your account (which does happen pretty regularly) it is usually very difficult and takes a long time to get the bank to make good. If someone from the outside does it, there's no chance in heck the bank will take responsibility, and it's not even considered normal that they should here!

I spread my money around to a bunch of different banks and don't let one account contain more than a month's spending at a time to help limit the damage.

The rest remains back home where I can depend on proper consumer protection laws (and rule of law in general).

[rubberduck]

Here you can see how various skimming devices look like. There are hundreds of different shapes and they keep changing and making it harder to recognize them. A skimming camera can be installed behind a just 2 milimeter hole made in the atm machine, often near the keypad.

Most simpel solution is to always go to cashmachines inside the bank, and set limits like e.g. max 1 transaction a day.

[Beetlejuice]

If the banks are not giving assurances that they will hold any responsibility for monies stolen by fraudulent means using the banks equipment, than the solution is simple; don`t use bank cards to make cash withdrawals from ATM machines.

[Jingthing]

I only use ATMS connected to banks inside large shopping malls. Aren't such ATM's safe from this threat?

[PalMan]

Jingthing, on 18 May 2013 - 15:56, said:

I only use ATMS connected to banks inside large shopping malls. Aren't such ATM's safe from this threat?

ATMs actually inside the bank are safer.

But nothing's guaranteed.

Personally the odds are pretty low, just use common sense pick and choose the measure you're willing to inconvenience yourself with to match your perception of the risk.

[rubberduck]

I only use ATMS connected to banks inside large shopping malls. Aren't such ATM's safe from this threat?

No they are not because skimming device is placed within seconds and nobody around will notice.

[Jingthing]

I only use ATMS connected to banks inside large shopping malls. Aren't such ATM's safe from this threat?

No they are not because skimming device is placed within seconds and nobody around will notice.

That would be cheeky.

[thaibeachlovers]

If the banks are not giving assurances that they will hold any responsibility for monies stolen by fraudulent means using the banks equipment, than the solution is simple; don`t use bank cards to make cash withdrawals from ATM machines.

I like that.

I don't have a CC and never needed one in LOS, ergo don't need to worry about skimmers, bank fees etc etc.

[PalMan]

If the banks are not giving assurances that they will hold any responsibility for monies stolen by fraudulent means using the banks equipment, than the solution is simple; don`t use bank cards to make cash withdrawals from ATM machines.

I like that.

I don't have a CC and never needed one in LOS, ergo don't need to worry about skimmers, bank fees etc etc.

This is more about regular ATM/debit cards than credit cards.

What do you use traveler's checks?

[mickjn]

I do not think it has been mentioned yet.If someone,usually a couple are using the ATM and say the have quite a few transactions to do and let you take their place and go next tell them its ok and walk away not not use that machine,and go straight to the bank and change your details

[seasia]

In addition to the video:

1. If anybody is behind you, give them the evils to back off.

2. Change your PIN number frequently. If you think anybody may have seen your PIN, go and change it.

3. Have the bank send an SMS every time you have a transaction - if you've been skimmed this is the quickest way to find out.

4. If somebody approaches you saying maybe you left some money in the ATM and waves a 100 baht note at you, take the note, run like hell to your bank and get your card cancelled.

5. Use ATM's at a bank if you can - generally safer and more likely to have better security.

6. Don't count your cash before you put it in your wallet or pocket. Keep it hidden and ram it straight in the wallet - anybody seeing you with a fist full of 1,000 notes might be tempted.

Edit: On point 3 - the skimmer may be clever enough to turn off the auto sms before he uses his skimmed card. I check the balance once a day anyway just to be sure (not difficult with an ATM every 20 mtrs on most roads)

Also, don't print a receipt, or if you do, don't leave it lying around. Anybody seeing that you have serious baht in your account might be tempted to twist your arm for the pin number.

I should add that I was skimmed as described in point 4, so am a little paranoid.

Hello

Thanks for that list.

No.1 yes I do that.

2 I don`t, I should

3 I do.

5 I do, generally.

6 I usually count to make sure the amount is right but good point.

I don`t print off the receipts as a rule,some rare exceptions.

4. I`ve heard of that happening, never encountered it, what is the catch here, how does someone gain ?

The instinct would be to return to ATM, yes, then what ?

Probably a naive question but better I ask and learn.

Thanks for any answer on no. 4.

[Cheapcharly]

shake or grab atm part sticking outside of the distributor surface.

if someone glued a reader, it will stay in your hand.

as for camera, look just up if you see a hole. could be a tiny camera.

but same thing, grab it and see if it s correctly glued:-)

[Bung]

Always cover the key pad with your hand when entering your PIN number. Then the camera cannot record it. Fraudsters need to skim your card as well as see your pin.

[NeverSure]

I'm not sure what good the card swipe info would do someone who didn't also have the PIN, thus the camera.

I always hold one hand over the keys while I enter the PIN with the other. Unless a bank employee installed a key stroke logger somehow, I don't know how they'd get the PIN.

[Heng]

When setting up your bank accounts in Thailand, regardless of which bank you use, it is advisable to setup a separate account for use with your ATM card, removed from your main account and limited to a lesser amount.

That way if an incident happens at least some damage limitation is in force.

Make sure that the bank contacts you by SMS on every withdrawal. This can further reduce the damage.

Apart from using in bank only ATM's.... which IMO one day the ATM gangs will find ways (or balls) to infiltrate and attach skimmers... probably the most practical advice and something I've done for a long time as well. Not just for Thai bank accounts, I don't allow any 'largish' account to have ATM access at all. Some passbook only, some online access only, some fixed, etc.

And yeah, if you have an account that has one time password SMS service... IMO it's well worth it. Certainly when you compare it to things like auto or life insurance type 'odds.'

Edited May 19, 2013 by Heng

[Heng]

I'm not sure what good the card swipe info would do someone who didn't also have the PIN, thus the camera.

I always hold one hand over the keys while I enter the PIN with the other. Unless a bank employee installed a key stroke logger somehow, I don't know how they'd get the PIN.

Have seen a photo of a PIN skimmer (maybe even here on ThaiVisa, not sure). It was a keypad that fit over the real keypad. Looked pretty good too, especially since there are more than a few models of ATM by 2-3 companies and a lot of folks might not notice the thicker keypad.

[scorecard]

Always cover the key pad with your hand when entering your PIN number. Then the camera cannot record it. Fraudsters need to skim your card as well as see your pin.

Good point, but maybe the skimmer can detect numbers from the sounds (audible and perhaps also inaudible to the human ear) which the ATM emits as you do a transaction.

[scorecard]

I only use ATMS connected to banks inside large shopping malls. Aren't such ATM's safe from this threat?

Not sure that it's that simple.

I'm not convinced that all, even most, bank managers / staff have focus on such matters.

If you / me / most shoppers see someone who looks like a technician (maybe a uniform and tool box) working on the ATM many will assume it is a legitimate technician.

In fact about 2 weeks back my bank manager (big branch high profile Thai bank) told me that there is a crisis right now in terms of theft of funds at ATM machines and his bank / all banks are struggling to create better / total security.

His advice (which I had already done), transfer all but a quite small amount to an account (maybe several) which does not have an ATM card, and beware of bank staff noticing that there is no ATM issued and therefore trying to convince you to take an ATM card.

He also mentioned beware of promotion teams in shopping malls, many of the team members are not full-time bank employees and their real knowledge of banking / security very limited or even zero.

[topt]

Interesting solution to skimming proposed by a Romanian guy currently in jail for making card skimmers - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/17/romanian_hacker_atm_security/

"With Boanta's device installed on the ATM, however, that all changes. Customers insert their cards into the slot long side first, so that the magnetic stripe is parallel to the face of the machine. The device then rotates the card 90 degrees into the ATM, where the legitimate card reader scans the magnetic stripe, then rotates it back out again to return it to the customer."

Unfortunately even if it is taken up (and proved to work) I cannot see the Thai bank's especially replacing all the current ATMs that quickly....if at all

[Chao Lao Beach]

More

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=3OjTC8z2cQM&NR=1

[thaibeachlovers]

If the banks are not giving assurances that they will hold any responsibility for monies stolen by fraudulent means using the banks equipment, than the solution is simple; don`t use bank cards to make cash withdrawals from ATM machines.

I like that.

I don't have a CC and never needed one in LOS, ergo don't need to worry about skimmers, bank fees etc etc.

This is more about regular ATM/debit cards than credit cards.

What do you use traveler's checks?

No, finished the last of them over a year ago.

I deposit an overseas cheque into my Thai bank a/c once in a while, and withdraw baht as required.

Nothing on earth would convince me to use an ATM card- device of satan, IMO.

[topt]

If the banks are not giving assurances that they will hold any responsibility for monies stolen by fraudulent means using the banks equipment, than the solution is simple; don`t use bank cards to make cash withdrawals from ATM machines.

I like that.

I don't have a CC and never needed one in LOS, ergo don't need to worry about skimmers, bank fees etc etc.

This is more about regular ATM/debit cards than credit cards.

What do you use traveler's checks?

No, finished the last of them over a year ago.

I deposit an overseas cheque into my Thai bank a/c once in a while, and withdraw baht as required.

Nothing on earth would convince me to use an ATM card- device of satan, IMO.

Fine if you are disciplined enough or never out late....

What happens if you suddely need more cash then you have on you at that point?

Personally I prefer the flexibility but each to their own.

[thaibeachlovers]

I like that.

I don't have a CC and never needed one in LOS, ergo don't need to worry about skimmers, bank fees etc etc.

This is more about regular ATM/debit cards than credit cards.

What do you use traveler's checks?

No, finished the last of them over a year ago.

I deposit an overseas cheque into my Thai bank a/c once in a while, and withdraw baht as required.

Nothing on earth would convince me to use an ATM card- device of satan, IMO.

Fine if you are disciplined enough or never out late....

What happens if you suddely need more cash then you have on you at that point?

Personally I prefer the flexibility but each to their own.

<What happens if you suddely need more cash then you have on you at that point?>

Never happened to me in LOS, but if it did, I'd just do what I did before ATMs were invented.

[topt]

No, finished the last of them over a year ago.

.

This is more about regular ATM/debit cards than credit cards.

What do you use traveler's checks?

I deposit an overseas cheque into my Thai bank a/c once in a while, and withdraw baht as required.

Nothing on earth would convince me to use an ATM card- device of satan, IMO.

Fine if you are disciplined enough or never out late....

What happens if you suddely need more cash then you have on you at that point?

Personally I prefer the flexibility but each to their own.

<What happens if you suddely need more cash then you have on you at that point?>

Never happened to me in LOS, but if it did, I'd just do what I did before ATMs were invented.

You have piqued my curiosity sir - care to say?