Woolwich Attack: ' Soldier Beheaded' By Ranting Fanatics On Busy London Street

[Credo]

That minority of Muslims is causing a very big problem for a large number of people.

[7by7]

Including the majority of Muslims who no more support them, their aims or their actions than you and I do.

[SinglePot]

Next thing will be arresting people for thinking anti islamic thoughts.

If you had your way people would be arrested and deported simply for being Muslim; even though they are British citizens born here.

Hopefully, neither will ever happen in the UK.

I think you're right to be concerned about extremist right wing reactions. But that doesn't mean there isn't a REAL problem, because there is.

Correct JT.

The information I have is that there are quite a few Muslims who were born in Britain and are therefore British citizens but who don't feel British and don't want to be British. British passport and social benefits largely paid for by higher income UK tax payers are logistical advantages.

Soldier who died was British not Muslim.

Fact.

[7by7]

The only people I ever have and ever will trust to defend my country are those brave enough to join its armed forces. If one day they have to patrol the streets of the U.K. to defend against the islam extremist menace then so be it.

People like Jabron Hasmi, just one of the British Muslim soldiers killed while on active service in Afghanistan?

People like the members of the British Armed Forces Muslim Association?

All members of our armed services, police and emergency services deserve our respect, support and gratitude; no matter their colour, race or religion.

[7by7]

The information I have is that there are quite a few Muslims who were born in Britain and are therefore British citizens but who don't feel British and don't want to be British. British passport and social benefits largely paid for by higher income UK tax payers are logistical advantages.

Soldier who died was British not Muslim.

Fact.

Where did you get this information from?

Who has said that the soldier killed by these two thugs was Muslim? No one here or in any media report that I have read.

[simple1]

Who is the aggressor in this incident which is the subject of this thread?

Two fanatics who were converted to a perverted form of Islam which has nothing to do with the beliefs of the majority of Muslims and who have been condemned by the majority of Muslims and their representatives.

More rubbish from you in a vain attempt to divert people from the truth. Choudary told it as it is - whatever waffle the so-called moderates may come out with in an attempt to cover their backsides, Choudary spoke the truth, i.e. most Muslims secretely support and approve of Jihadist terror.

As for your attempt to smear us with the "final solution" jibe, well, just maybe the newly instigated "Religion of Peace" street theatre where gangs of screaming Islamists slaughter Infidels in broad daylight on the streets of Britain may bring that day forward.

Believe what ever your ignorance tells you to believe what ordinary Muslims think about this crime; even though all the evidence proves you wrong; but..........

Street theatre!

How dare you call the brutal hacking to death of a British soldier by two thugs street theatre!

Shame on you!

"Street theatre" is a term now being used in some media reports to describe the attention seeking actions by the killers.

Maybe I'll be proved wrong, but let's hope that the rare instances of domestic terrorism will be curtailed by the condemnation of this attack by so many Islamic representative organisations across the UK and increased collaboration with security agencies.

[TexasRanger]

All I can say to that is I only ever served with one muslim in the British forces, and he tried to get out of operation granby on religious grounds. When threatened with detention he changed his loyalty again. Not saying its the norm, but I can state with certainty as I have first hand knowledge.

[sbk]

First hand knowledge from ONE single experience and one single person. This does not allow for broad based generalizations of millions of people extrapolated from one experience, something you are more than well aware of Texas Ranger.

I realize this is an emotional and highly upsetting topic for people but that does NOT justify racist, bigoted behavior nor does it justify flaming other members who disagree with you. Not saying you are TR but it is clearly an issue in this thread. So, once again, despite multiple mod warnings, it must be said again.

Do NOT attack another member in an abusive manner simply because you disagree with him or her.

Do NOT post bigoted and racist hate speech.

Suspensions are being handed out to those who fail to heed this warning.

[MAJIC]

Why is this man allowed to stay in the country? (notice who is behind him)

He has Pakistani roots, just drop him off there.....preferably from a great height.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2330689/Is-country-mad-Why-Anjem-Choudary-poisonous-teachings-influenced-Woolwich-killers-free-draw-benefits-tour-BBC-studios-spouting-murderous-hatred-Britain.html

Why is this man allowed to stay in the Country?

European Laws and European Court of Human Rights which over rule UK laws.This is one of many reasons why the UK needs a Referendum,to allow the British people a chance to vote for ,leaving Europe!

[SinglePot]

The information I have is that there are quite a few Muslims who were born in Britain and are therefore British citizens but who don't feel British and don't want to be British. British passport and social benefits largely paid for by higher income UK tax payers are logistical advantages.

Soldier who died was British not Muslim.

Fact.

Where did you get this information from?

Who has said that the soldier killed by these two thugs was Muslim? No one here or in any media report that I have read.

Relax. I wasn't disagreeing with anybody. Just pointing out that soldier who died was a British citizen and was not a Muslim.

[7by7]

Majic,

As has been said before, whether or not the UK leaves the EU will have nothing to do with the European Convention on Human Rights nor it's court. Neither of which are entities of the EU!

But the UK's membership of the EU is not the topic of this thread!

SinglePot,

So what was your point? Everyone knows that the victim of this atrocity was a British soldier!

Any chance of you answering the other question?

Edited May 25, 2013 by 7by7

[canuckamuck]

Next thing will be arresting people for thinking anti islamic thoughts.

If you had your way people would be arrested and deported simply for being Muslim; even though they are British citizens born here.

Hopefully, neither will ever happen in the UK.

I think you're right to be concerned about extremist right wing reactions. But that doesn't mean there isn't a REAL problem, because there is.

There are Muslim extremists, no one is denying that; but they do not represent majority Muslim opinions; as has been shown time and time again.

The problem is the ignorant who simply say that this majority of Mulsims are lying!

It is such ignorant prejudice which the ultra right such as the BNP and EDL feed and rely on.

What percentage of extremists are required before we can say there is a problem?

[Ace of Pop]

I don't think the cause of the heated debate is about Muslims. Just Islamic Militants.

[7by7]

I don't think the cause of the heated debate is about Muslims. Just Islamic Militants.

Unfortunately, there are too many whose prejudice makes them think they are one and the same

[7by7]

What percentage of extremists are required before we can say there is a problem?

I don't think anyone is saying there is not already a problem.

But demonising the majority of Muslims and calling them liars when they condemn and disown the extremists wont solve the problem; it'll only make it worse.

[TexasRanger]

Hmm seems to be some selective post deletion going on here now, guess thats the end of the debate then. Sad.

[simple1]

On the topic of Muslims serving in the military; whilst the info is a bit old it paints a picture:

More than 3,500 Muslims have deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan, according to Defense Department figures provided to The Times. As of 2006, some 212 Muslim-American soldiers had been awarded Combat Action Ribbons for their service in Iraq and Afghanistan, and seven had been killed.

Edited May 25, 2013 by simple1

[MAJIC]

Outrageous, what has Britain become, where a member of Her Majesty's Armed Fforces can't walk the streets without facing attack? Powells "Rivers of blood" speech may actually have prophesied just that, although probably not his intention.

For too long have the "British" people been like a sleeping dog, laying complacent at the hearth. Now these animals welcomed in & given every opportunity have become so emboldened as to commit this horrific act on Britains streets.

Too late for government to act, as "they" are already embeded in every aspect of political life in the UK. The "mindless morons of the EDL" as some on this forum have called them, are now apparently the last bastion for repriasal as far as Britain is concerned & good luck to them.

Every Muslim living in Britian should should feel shame upon themselves & Islam for breeding, & harbouring such hatred for a country that allowed them to thrive.

Regardless where these animals came from, they are Muslims, no matter what denials or renunciation the Islamic mouth piece in the UK comes out with.

I've read some absolute wet liberal crap on here regarding this & most of it from brits, no wonder the country is in shit, for want of a better term. All Muslims in the UK are now fair game, month after month I read of "home grown" would be Islamic terrorists, of Muslim men colluding on child grooming & rape. Enough is enough...

Well said.

Apart from the EDL the spineless British citizens will just whimper about these Islamic atrocities while the equally spineless police, the establishment and politicians will continue to make excuses for their behaviour and arrest members of the EDL for being seen to care about the state of their country.

Not a single British citizen was ever consulted on the matter of immigration yet we claim to live in a democracy.

Spineless Police! who do you think risked their own lives to apprehend the Muslim Killers? while you were playing the Brave keyboard warrior! and what country are you a Citizen of? that would face a pair of Terrorists empty handed? and end up slaughtered?

The only police intervention occurred when the armed coppers turned up, till then the only people who approached the killers was a middle aged Englsih lady. I'm refering to the same spineless police who ran away from Islamic demonstrators through the streets of London and the same ones who ran away from angry young negros at the Notting Hill drug jamboree in 2010. Both these spectacles are on Youtube for you to peruse should you so wish.

I'm giving an opinion from my experience of living in the multicultural paradise known as London where you never see a copper unless he's in a motor car. If I'm a 'keyboard warrior' what are you?

I was under the impression that it's expected that police have to take risks when necessary and if they are not equipped to do so then they should get the police Federation to ensure that they are. Perhaps you think that they should consult their health and safety handbook first. It's not 1970 any more and they should be armed at all times with guns like all police forces. If they don't want to carry guns then they're in the wrong job in this day and age.

If our treasonous and lily livered political classes had any backbone they would make sure every copper carried a gun for the sake of not only public safety but for that of their own. Arm 'em and they might command a little respect and be able to exert their authority, Right now they are only any use when such an incident is over.

The Police went through a procedure,for disarming the two armed Terrorists which was done very quickly, I don't suppose you would have gone in,and disarmed these crazy lunatics, single handed either! armed Police were on the scene within 20 minutes,according to one report.

[chooka]

That minority of Muslims is causing a very big problem for a large number of people.

In a large number of countries.

[7by7]

Met defends Woolwich attack response time

The Metropolitan Police has defended the way it responded to reports of the killing in Woolwich, south London, after questions were raised about how long it took officers to reach the scene.

The force said police were there within nine minutes of the first emergency call and firearms officers were at the scene five minutes after that.

It seems obvious to me from the actual events that civilians were safe from these thugs, provided they didn't attempt to disarm them, which none did. But that if unarmed police had tried to tackle them we would probably be mourning dead police officers as well as a dead soldier.

The police were right to wait for armed officers to arrive, in my opinion.

[MAJIC]

Mosha, get your facts right.

The EU does not have any Human Rights laws!

The European Convention on Human Rights and it's court were set up long before the EEC, the predecessor of the EU, existed. Whilst all EU countries are signatories, many other European countries which arte not EU members are as well.

And isn't the UK kicking out these laws now on Cameron's agenda. I think it was on BBC World news a month or 2 back.

Cameron is attempting for the UK to have a choice of ignoring some of the more trivial ECHR agreements.

[thaicbr]

On the topic of Muslims serving in the military; whilst the info is a bit old it paints a picture:

 

More than 3,500 Muslims have deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan, according to Defense Department figures provided to The Times. As of 2006, some 212 Muslim-American soldiers had been awarded Combat Action Ribbons for their service in Iraq and Afghanistan, and seven had been killed.

OK. And for the UK.

( this post is not meant to disparage serving UK Muslims)

7by7. I do acknowledge that a majority of Muslims disdain what happened. My question has always been. Are the majority Muslim community and the government doing enough to stamp out the extremists. I think the answer is NO.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

[manarak]

What percentage of extremists are required before we can say there is a problem?

I don't think anyone is saying there is not already a problem.

But demonising the majority of Muslims and calling them liars when they condemn and disown the extremists wont solve the problem; it'll only make it worse.

The problem are the islamists, be they non-violent or not, because even non-violent islamists breed and there are a lot of ways to misbehave non-violently.

An Islamist, by the accepted newer definition, is someone who believes that "Islam should guide social and political as well as personal life". This means, these people are in favor of replacing democracy by an islamist republic.

Part of the problem:

- are extremist islamists

- militant islamists

- islamist clerics

- people who fund islamists (saudis and others)

- people who vote for islamists (voted for the muslim brotherbood)

- people who do nothing against islamists (all those muslim fathers and mothers who fail to control and educate their children properly and do not speak out against religious extremism)

regarding clerics - they should be required to speak out against extremism in unequivocal terms or be deported.

Edited May 25, 2013 by manarak

[simple1]

On the topic of Muslims serving in the military; whilst the info is a bit old it paints a picture:

More than 3,500 Muslims have deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan, according to Defense Department figures provided to The Times. As of 2006, some 212 Muslim-American soldiers had been awarded Combat Action Ribbons for their service in Iraq and Afghanistan, and seven had been killed.

OK. And for the UK.

( this post is not meant to disparage serving UK Muslims)

7by7. I do acknowledge that a majority of Muslims disdain what happened. My question has always been. Are the majority Muslim community and the government doing enough to stamp out the extremists. I think the answer is NO.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

To answer your question. more than 600 Muslims in the British Armed Forces; source

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12504162

[Mosha]

Next thing will be arresting people for thinking anti islamic thoughts.

If you had your way people would be arrested and deported simply for being Muslim; even though they are British citizens born here.

Hopefully, neither will ever happen in the UK.

If I had my way. I'd take media reports from the past few years, back to the early to mid 60s.

[thaicbr]

On the topic of Muslims serving in the military; whilst the info is a bit old it paints a picture:

 

More than 3,500 Muslims have deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan, according to Defense Department figures provided to The Times. As of 2006, some 212 Muslim-American soldiers had been awarded Combat Action Ribbons for their service in Iraq and Afghanistan, and seven had been killed.

OK. And for the UK.

( this post is not meant to disparage serving UK Muslims)

7by7. I do acknowledge that a majority of Muslims disdain what happened. My question has always been. Are the majority Muslim community and the government doing enough to stamp out the extremists. I think the answer is NO.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

 

To answer your question. more than 600 Muslims in the British Armed Forces; source

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12504162

 

Thanks

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

[MAJIC]

Who is the aggressor in this incident which is the subject of this thread?

Two fanatics who were converted to a perverted form of Islam which has nothing to do with the beliefs of the majority of Muslims and who have been condemned by the majority of Muslims and their representatives.

So why don't the "majority of Muslims" kick out Chawdrey (the hate monger)?,to be in his position,with such a high profile, representative position,you need a lot of followers! and I don't see any demonstrations to kick him out, or his followers, very strange eh!, and please don't tell me he doesn't speak for ordinary Muslims,or it's the Media,blah blah nothing to do with ordinary Muslims blah blah........

[thaicbr]

Who is the aggressor in this incident which is the subject of this thread?

 

Two fanatics who were converted to a perverted form of Islam which has nothing to do with the beliefs of the majority of Muslims and who have been condemned by the majority of Muslims and their representatives.

 

So why don't the "majority of Muslims" kick out Chawdrey (the hate monger)?,to be in his position,with such a high profile, representative position,you need a lot of followers! and I don't see any demonstrations to kick him out, or his followers, very strange eh!, and please don't tell me he doesn't speak for ordinary Muslims,or it's the Media,blah blah nothing to do with ordinary Muslims blah blah........

And he is just a highly vocal one of many giving hate sermons in mosques up and down the country.

The Australian prime minister gave a great speech recently about Muslim Integration into Australia. It was basically do it the Australian way or f#ck off.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

[7by7]

Choudrey and his group have been ostracised by mainstream Muslims and 'kicked out' of their mosques.

As have others of his ilk.

Edited May 25, 2013 by 7by7

[FDog]

Mosha;

I didn't say it was a majority, I said it was a high proportion; which over a third is.

I live among Muslims; I work with Muslims, I have Muslim friends.

They are not going around preaching jihad, hatred or intolerance.

I have seen far more of that in this topic, and to be frank am ashamed that Thai Visa members should be the ones doing it!

I would expect a forum consisting of people living in a foreign country or who live in the UK with their foreign wife, husband or partner to be more tolerant; sadly it appears that I am wrong.

But remember, people, if your wish becomes true and the BNP, EDL or even UKIP have their way, all people with brown skin will be removed; including your wives!

I agree, and I DO live in a muslim country.