Surrounded By "enemy" Nationals On A Baht Bus; Confused As To Proper Etiquette

[fasteddie]

Ah the price of being an American, given your governments foreign policies it's a wonder any of you dare leave your country.

[anon8]

When we gone have a Baht bus sub forum ?

When pigs take baht buses?

This isn't a BB topic per se.

It's about "enemy" nationals being crammed together into small spaces in Pattaya. Could have just as easily been a stuck elevator!

Well in that case I suggest next time you take a baht bus ride you leave your usual uniform at home.

OMG, there's nothing more gay than Captain America. Cool gay dudes avoid this look as plague.

[Jingthing]

Ah the price of being an American, given your governments foreign policies it's a wonder any of you dare leave your country.

Most of us don't. Not counting Canada and Mexico.

Anyway, the USA is hardly the only country with PR issues and by no means the most severe PR issues. The bottom of the list, sorry to say, is IRAN.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22624104

Edited May 31, 2013 by Jingthing

[DD13]

I think that I would have said "yes I am English" and we used to get on very well with your people when your country was Persia

And to the Russian " You would do well to remember....many brave Allied seamen gave up their lives on the Artic convoys to feed and equip your Nation

Why are you both such paranoid people

While you were at it you could have mentioned the Anglo Persian Oil Company and Mohammed Mossadegh. After that you could tell the Russian that the 25,000,000 Russian deaths during WWII were of minor importance. You'd have been the most popular man on the bus.

I don't remember suggesting that the Russian deaths were unimportant......what's your point?

My point is that it's a bit crass pointing out the loss of 3,000 Allied sailors to someone whose country suffered 10 million military and 15 million civilian deaths during the same conflict.

In case you hadn't noticed it wasn't the Allies who killed the unfortunate Russians......the Allies were trying to help them......which as history has shown was soon forgotten by the Communist Russians after the war....No need to respond to this...you have already insulted the memory of those brave Allies who gave their lives and their families...and on that note I will "log out" of Thaivisa for good

[Lancelot]

There were multiple factors. The drunkenness and their large overwhelming numbers. They were definitely FRIENDLY but with all that booze, friendliness can turn. I suppose some people might say I'm American but I don't support my governments actions towards your country. But in my case that would be a LIE and I didn't even have the energy to play the Canuck card, much less lie about my politics.

Again, I'm sure many people are going to label this paranoid behavior. What would the American embassy advise, do you reckon? I'm sure they would advise: AVOID potential conflict of this nature to the best of your ability and that's what I did.

Discretion- the better part of valor

[Lancelot]

Ah the price of being an American, given your governments foreign policies it's a wonder any of you dare leave your country.

You don't like the USA, gosh, that line goes all the way down the street and around the corner. By the can you be specific about which policies you dislike- or are you just repeating what you've been told by others and have no original thoughts of your own...

Time heals all wounds- only 70 years ago The Nazis were exterminating just about every one that they felt were not part of the Super Race. Now Germany was recently voted "The Most Popular Country."

I predict a few million more Ruskies relocating to Pattaya will make we Americans look like choir boys

Rock on!

[TexasRanger]

Who cares, most people come here to make love, not war. I have no desire to share transport with Iraqis, irish or russians, but then if they aren't pointing a weapon at me or planting explosives under my car I can turn the other cheek.

Edited June 1, 2013 by TexasRanger

[Globeman]

There were multiple factors. The drunkenness and their large overwhelming numbers. They were definitely FRIENDLY but with all that booze, friendliness can turn. I suppose some people might say I'm American but I don't support my governments actions towards your country. But in my case that would be a LIE and I didn't even have the energy to play the Canuck card, much less lie about my politics.

Again, I'm sure many people are going to label this paranoid behavior. What would the American embassy advise, do you reckon? I'm sure they would advise: AVOID potential conflict of this nature to the best of your ability and that's what I did.

How dare a proud american such as yourself claim to be Canadian? As a Canadian with a real Canadian passport and outlook, I find that offensive.

[jacko45k]

What you got against playing a Canadian...............

Just sit there and pretend you don't understand, and let them think you are Israeli.

[Jingthing]

How dare a proud american such as yourself claim to be Canadian? As a Canadian with a real Canadian passport and outlook, I find that offensive.

If it's any consolation I haven't played the Canuck card in many a year.

Another reason not to play fake Canuck is that it has become such a cliche that is lacks credibility.

Actual Canadians, how often do you say your nationality and people reply, Sure you are, Sure you are ...

I've been meaning to try out claiming I am from Belize. Most people wouldn't know it but they do speak English there. Just in case, I could add some YA MONS for flavor. Not saying they say YA MON in Belize, who who would know that?

Edited June 1, 2013 by Jingthing

[Gerald14]

Nooo not Iranians, they are not allowed to drink, so how could they have been intoxicated?

[Jingthing]

Nooo not Iranians, they are not allowed to drink, so how could they have been intoxicated?

So you are saying they were just SAYING they were Iranians but were really something else? (Like Canadians.)

Edited June 1, 2013 by Jingthing

[StreetCowboy]

Straying back to the original topic, I found myself in a similar position once, drinking in an Iranian night club. The crowd was entirely young Iranian chaps, and I deemed it prudent just to keep myself to myself, have a couple of beers and head off. The singer I was hoping to see never showed up, but I didn't wait all night.

SC

[Tywais]

Nooo not Iranians, they are not allowed to drink, so how could they have been intoxicated?

Pretty easy it seems, even in their own country.

But Iranians still drink. They drink smuggled booze -- an estimated 60 to 80 million liters came over the border last year alone, mostly from Iraqi Kurdistan -- and they drink homemade booze, often the ouzo-meets-moonshine aragh saghi, made from raisins. They drink at home, drink at the corner shops that double as clandestine liquor stores, and apparently they drink behind the wheel: when Tehran police administered random alcohol tests to city drivers, a staggering 26 percent turned out to be drunk.

So many Iranians drink to excess that health officials there are now warning of a national threat to public health, citing a spike in alcohol-related ailments. Police are confiscating 69 percent more alcohol than they did last year, according to an Iranian newspaper.

theatlantic

[StreetCowboy]

Nooo not Iranians, they are not allowed to drink, so how could they have been intoxicated?

That would depend on whether they were Muslims, and also whether they were good Muslims.

[Globeman]

How dare a proud american such as yourself claim to be Canadian? As a Canadian with a real Canadian passport and outlook, I find that offensive.

If it's any consolation I haven't played the Canuck card in many a year.

Another reason not to play fake Canuck is that it has become such a cliche that is lacks credibility.

Actual Canadians, how often do you say your nationality and people reply, Sure you are, Sure you are ...

I've been meaning to try out claiming I am from Belize. Most people wouldn't know it but they do speak English there. Just in case, I could add some YA MONS for flavor. Not saying they say YA MON in Belize, who who would know that?

Green-Stripe-1024x844.jpg

If I ever run into you, I may just have my friends and I pretend we are Iranian, for the fun of watching you quake in your boots.

Edited June 1, 2013 by Globeman

[Jingthing]

If I ever run into you, I may just have my friends and I pretend we are Iranian, for the fun of watching you quake in your boots.

Unless you speak Farsi or have a good Iranian accent, it won't work.

[GAZZPA]

I do not hold any ill feelings towards Persian people either. (Rather, I detest the Iranian REGIME.) But I felt threatened in that situation and I had REASON to. They were all DRUNK. There is no way I could have predicted the POLITICS of that large group of people or how they might have reacted to a person like me, one person. Drunk people especially in large groups are UNPREDICTABLE. If anyone imagines I started this thread to DISS Iranian people in general, well, they clearly haven't even bothered to read the thread.

It was about AN INCIDENT. Also if anyone imagines there isn't sometimes friction or POTENTIAL friction between nationalities here, or even factions WITHIN nationalities (such as during the last American election), they are being very, very naive. In an international tourist resort like Pattaya, this is a fact of life, and personally I thought it was something worth discussing. But it seems clear some people can't accept that or lack the maturity to discuss a sensitive topic without flaming.

Yes, USUALLY, because most people are here for the pleasure it offers, frictions from back home are left back home. But that doesn't mean that there still isn't at least some potential for those frictions to manifest here.

I completely understand you feeling uncomfortable in that situation, I think most people would say the same if they were being honest. I would say however that in this case the nationality of them probably didn't really matter, they were drunk and not out to talk politics. If you get on a baht bus full of guys from anywhere and they were all drunk you should be on your guard, booze does strange things to some people and you just never know. I do believe however that most people from most countries are just normal people and bear no ill feelings towards anyone, even if their governments are at each others throats. I think what you did in keeping yourself to yourself was the best cause of action because of their drunken state, no more.

[thhMan]

Its a baht bus for christ sake.....

Grow up and loose your attitude....

[chuckd]

A few years ago I was thrown into a similar situation in Pattaya where I was faced with five young Iranian men that had been drinking. Nationality was one of the first topics to come up and I said I was an American.

The conversation got decidedly friendlier especially when they realized I could speak a smattering of Farsi and had lived and worked in Iran for five years, before and during the revolution in 1978. We talked old times and the situation in Tehran and Esfahan and had a marvelous time.

The Iranian people are generally US friendly and have been for years. They are lovely people and the country is great.

The Shiite fundamentalists are NOT friendly towards the US but you aren't too likely to run into them in Pattaya.

[RBOP]

I always tell people I'm from Canada. Works pretty well most of them time. Sometimes they'll get suspicious and start asking me questions about Canada I don't know. Or they'll tell my my accent is definitely not Canadian.

What's a Canadian accent...eh?

[Emdog]

I am American. I have met many Iranians here, but not drunk ones. They are all gracious people that I have met. If I meet one on a baht bus, I tell them "terrific. My government tells me you are my enemy. But I don't believe what my government tells me to do or think. Most governments are full of sh*t. Glad to meet you! My name is Emory. Are you enjoying Thailand?" This is done with genuine outgoing feeling. And they generally agree, and say their government full of it also. We have a good laugh, both feel good about the encounter, and a little bit of peace and understanding happens.

[lemoncake]

Jing and his Baht bus.

I wonder if baht bus drivers have some kind of pool or talk or forum about Jing

[HOOD Robin]

I think you did the right thing...many Iranians, don't support their government, but you don't know about this group. Lasso, most people, regardless of the state of relations between their respective governments, are curious about Americans as individuals and don't have an animus against us.

However, you never know, especially when alcohol is mixed in. Nothing to be ashamed of in your taking the actions you did or didn't do.

1/ i thought Iranians are not supposed to drink alcohol by their religion ? Can we (or they) drink it in their own country ?

2/ in my opinion you made 1 mistake: when i see a baht bus FULL of drunken lads, whichever country they come from, i will wait for the next one !

[petercool]

Opting for a "new" nationality is sometimes useful. I remember an Indian tour guide at Fort Agra saying to me, " This is beautiful sir but before those terrible British people came it was more beautiful, and what Nationality are you sir ?" On that occasion this Brit opted to be French ....

But to the OP's point, it is intimidating to be surrounded by a group with unknown ideology and intent and drunk as well. I might have got of the baht bus but not being there to witness the atmosphere he was experiencing it is difficult to have much of an opinion beyond that.

[Frank James]

It seems to me that you missed an opportunity for dialog and possible friendship. All of the Iranians I've met and interacted with personally could give lessons in manners, culture, and civility to your countrymen and mine, the Americans. They're fine people, by and large, just as we are, and someday this ridiculous nationalistic BS that has come between us, will be consigned to its proper place, the 'dustbin of history.'

Americans who pose as Canadians are moral cowards.

[Jingthing]

It seems to me that you missed an opportunity for dialog and possible friendship. All of the Iranians I've met and interacted with personally could give lessons in manners, culture, and civility to your countrymen and mine, the Americans. They're fine people, by and large, just as we are, and someday this ridiculous nationalistic BS that has come between us, will be consigned to its proper place, the 'dustbin of history.'

Americans who pose as Canadians are moral cowards.

I'm going to experience good manners from a large crowd of aggressive, rowdy DRUNK people? Sure thing, mate.

I never said one thing to diss ALL Iranian people. The repetitive insinuations about how "fine" Iranians are, suggesting the purpose of this thread is general Iranian bashing which it is NOT, is getting ridiculous. I am talking about a crowd of drunk people. Might be fine when sober but they were unpredictable when drunk.

Moral cowards, huh? My granny had blonde hair/blue eyes as a young girl and could pass for white Russian and once avoided being murdered by acting like she was. I am so happy she was such a coward!

Edited June 1, 2013 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

I am American. I have met many Iranians here, but not drunk ones. They are all gracious people that I have met. If I meet one on a baht bus, I tell them "terrific. My government tells me you are my enemy. But I don't believe what my government tells me to do or think. Most governments are full of sh*t. Glad to meet you! My name is Emory. Are you enjoying Thailand?" This is done with genuine outgoing feeling. And they generally agree, and say their government full of it also. We have a good laugh, both feel good about the encounter, and a little bit of peace and understanding happens.

You don't know their politics. You are just guessing. With a large group of drunk people from a country in a long standing (MANY DECADES NOW) bitter conflict with your country, it's IDIOTIC to make such assumptions.

[Jingthing]

Its a baht bus for christ sake.....

Grow up and loose your attitude....

The baht bus is merely the SETTING for this topic. Not the topic.

[Jingthing]

I completely understand you feeling uncomfortable in that situation, I think most people would say the same if they were being honest. I would say however that in this case the nationality of them probably didn't really matter, they were drunk and not out to talk politics. If you get on a baht bus full of guys from anywhere and they were all drunk you should be on your guard, booze does strange things to some people and you just never know. I do believe however that most people from most countries are just normal people and bear no ill feelings towards anyone, even if their governments are at each others throats. I think what you did in keeping yourself to yourself was the best cause of action because of their drunken state, no more.

Yes and no. The drunken state was an important red flag to be careful but the nationality matters too, when that nationality is from a country in open conflict with your country. For example if the bus was filled with drunken Canadians I could understand their politics, culture, and clues much better and can more easily make accurate judgments about the appropriate comfort level being surrounded by them.

Edited June 1, 2013 by Jingthing