Ecuador 'analysing' Snowden asylum request: FM

[wealth]

we don't want anyone go get hasted, do we? - hint

Edited June 27, 2013 by wealth

[Exsexyman]

Whatever the government supposedly is doing, allegedly to whom and why, how, when, where is off topic and you know it. You keep griping about something you can't change. Maybe TVF will accommodate you right wingers with a new thread, "What the US Government Supposedly Is Doing That TVF Right Wing Tea Party Extremists Want To Gripe About."

Until then, quit your constant bellyaching, whining, winging.

You guys sound like a kid who got sent to bed without any dinner. If you're alone in your room these nights hungry, it's because you are always crying wolf. Take it to the ACLU forum or something similar.

Boring.

Monotonous monotone.

What is boring is your constant refrain that the only people calling the Obama regime to account are right wingers, Tea party etc. nothing could be further from the truth. Whether you like it or not your hero 'Prez Obama' has been exposed by this scandal as the reactionary right winger, he is finished, no matter how the Snowden situation resolves itself. The vast majority of people who are expressing their disquiet at his 'regimes' anti democratic behaviour, and his desperate attempts to keep a lid on it are from his natural constituency, liberals from the left. A good start from him to redress the situation would be for him to admit that the US has been hypocritical in demanding that Russia should abide by international legal standards and return Snowden to the US, whilst they are refusing to return a convicted terrorist who was responsible for the deaths of more than 70 people in a aeroplane bombing, who is being protected by his regime, living high on the hog in Miami, where he is lauded as a hero. I notice that you have studiously ignored this question. To all you pseudo liberals,( cos that's what you are), the immortal line from John Lydon springs to mind. "Ever get the feeling you've been cheated"?

[sustento]

Crimes against humanity? A bit dramatic don't you think?

No, I don't think so at all. It's not like our other CAH, like drone killing civilians, but it supports that. Don't the citizens of other nations, not to mention Americans of course, have the right to an expectation of privacy? Aren't we committing a crime against them when we invade their privacy without just cause?

What really annoyed me as a non-American about the whole PRISM thing was the assumption by a lot of your countrymen that it was OK for the US to spy on us but not on you.

[Publicus]

Crimes against humanity? A bit dramatic don't you think?

No, I don't think so at all. It's not like our other CAH, like drone killing civilians, but it supports that. Don't the citizens of other nations, not to mention Americans of course, have the right to an expectation of privacy? Aren't we committing a crime against them when we invade their privacy without just cause?

What really annoyed me as a non-American about the whole PRISM thing was the assumption by a lot of your countrymen that it was OK for the US to spy on us but not on you.

Your government knows all about all of these programs. Take the matter up with the political parties in your own back yard and the respective prime ministers of each of the two major parties in your own country. You can't vote in the United States for the obvious reason. Talk to someone who is directly accountable to you at the ballot box. In the meanwhile, try to stay on topic.

[Publicus]

Sorry jingthing, in your case that should read,'gullible liberal'.

More of the same blah blah blah. That is why we are required to stay on topic. (In another few hours all these posts will be rightfully deleted.)

Edited June 27, 2013 by Publicus

[wealth]

Crimes against humanity? A bit dramatic don't you think?

No, I don't think so at all. It's not like our other CAH, like drone killing civilians, but it supports that. Don't the citizens of other nations, not to mention Americans of course, have the right to an expectation of privacy? Aren't we committing a crime against them when we invade their privacy without just cause?

What really annoyed me as a non-American about the whole PRISM thing was the assumption by a lot of your countrymen that it was OK for the US to spy on us but not on you.

Your government knows all about all of these programs. Take the matter up with the political parties in your own back yard and the respective prime ministers of each of the two major parties in your own country. You can't vote in the United States for the obvious reason. Talk to someone who is directly accountable to you at the ballot box. In the meanwhile, try to stay on topic.

so you mean please join the Correa Equatorian reaction? Hmm, good suggestion maybe ... sure many will pick that up ...

... many countries, including Germany getting a bit nervous why nothing is done about the actual scandal itself. Any suggestion???

Edited June 27, 2013 by wealth

[Publicus]

What really annoyed me as a non-American about the whole PRISM thing was the assumption by a lot of your countrymen that it was OK for the US to spy on us but not on you.

Your government knows all about all of these programs. Take the matter up with the political parties in your own back yard and the respective prime ministers of each of the two major parties in your own country. You can't vote in the United States for the obvious reason. Talk to someone who is directly accountable to you at the ballot box. In the meanwhile, try to stay on topic.

so you mean please join the Correa Equatorian reaction? Hmm, good suggestion maybe ... sure many will pick that up ...

... many countries, including Germany getting a bit nervous why nothing is done about the actual scandal itself? Any suggestion???

[wealth]

Having appeared to confirm no ‘actual’ American emails were intercepted in previous statements, it seems President Obama has some more questions to answer after the Guardian reveals that in fact, the Obama administration permitted the National Security Agency to continue collecting vast amounts of records detailing the email and Internet usage of Americans for more than two years.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-27/nsa-collected-vast-amounts-americans-emails-under-obama-guardian-reveals

http://rt.com/usa/nsa-leak-obama-surveillance-333/

NSA inspector general report on email and internet data collection under Stellar Wind – full document

full report

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2013/jun/27/nsa-inspector-general-report-document-data-collection

a few pages were intentionally left blank

Edited June 27, 2013 by wealth

[wealth]

The Thunder Child

There are two other lesser known NSA whistle blowers that are key to understanding this developing story.

William Binney reveals the how the NSA is capturing and storing almost all domestic electronic communications using Narus devices at key locations on the backbone of the internet (Room 641A & AT&T Leaks). This whole metadata meme is a blatant lie!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Russ Tice has revealed for the first time how the NSA targets and wiretaps US politicians, judges and ranking officers for blackmailing purposes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Here is the mp3 if you want to skip yt:

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/podpress...130617.mp3

This is the bread and butter that journalists should be talking about along with the NSA having direct server access to the largest software companies and the constant lies coming from the government...not where's waldo.

[Maestro]

I have removed a nonsensical post.

[sustento]

Crimes against humanity? A bit dramatic don't you think?

No, I don't think so at all. It's not like our other CAH, like drone killing civilians, but it supports that. Don't the citizens of other nations, not to mention Americans of course, have the right to an expectation of privacy? Aren't we committing a crime against them when we invade their privacy without just cause?

What really annoyed me as a non-American about the whole PRISM thing was the assumption by a lot of your countrymen that it was OK for the US to spy on us but not on you.

Your government knows all about all of these programs. Take the matter up with the political parties in your own back yard and the respective prime ministers of each of the two major parties in your own country. You can't vote in the United States for the obvious reason. Talk to someone who is directly accountable to you at the ballot box. In the meanwhile, try to stay on topic.

My government might know about these programmes but I suspect it has little or no control over them. How about asking your government to stick to its own back yard?. Until such time as my posts disappear they ARE on topic.

[Scott]

And I have removed a large number of off-topic posts and replies. A word of advice: you might want to limit your comments on other posters and it's never a good idea to quote a post that is off-topic.

[F430murci]

Crimes against humanity? A bit dramatic don't you think?

No, I don't think so at all. It's not like our other CAH, like drone killing civilians, but it supports that. Don't the citizens of other nations, not to mention Americans of course, have the right to an expectation of privacy? Aren't we committing a crime against them when we invade their privacy without just cause?

What really annoyed me as a non-American about the whole PRISM thing was the assumption by a lot of your countrymen that it was OK for the US to spy on us but not on you.

Of course it is. I am sure that Russia feels same way. China does too. It has been and always will be the case.

[F430murci]

Wife says Russia media reporting they have an "American spy" at airport. Won't arrest him and he may go to Cuba. Not much reporting there at all.

William Hill, the global wagering house in the UK asked the question of wagers where Edward Snowden will be New Year's Day 2014.

The wagering line is 7 to 4 to be in Cuba, 3 - 1, the United States, 4 to 1 to be in Equador

The Equador odds however were before yesterday's statement by the Ecuadorian FM that it will take at least two months to process Snowden's application for asylum. Now the Equadorian FM has toughened the requirement, saying Snowdon has to apply from Equadorian soil (in Equador, at an Equadorian embassy etc). I'd bet (so to speak) the odds now are 10-1 against Equador, but right now I'm too lazy to look them up.

Meanwhile, he's a travel situation report on Snowden's "dwindling" escape options from Moscow:

NO WAY OUT: Snowden's Escape Options Are Dwindling

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/snowden-has-few-travel-options-2013-6#ixzz2XR56RFe6

And Prez Obama seems confidently laid back about it all - I mean nabbing Snowden sooner or later:

OBAMA ON SNOWDEN: 'I'm Not Going To Be Scrambling Jets To Get A 29-Year-Old Hacker'

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-edward-snowden-scrambling-jets-hacker-2013-6#ixzz2XR6aJWFz

And here's one on how Snowden really blew it, first by trusting the Boyz In Beijing, second, by trusting the former Soviet KGB colonel, Vladimir Putin. A witness in the following story reports seeing about 20 Russian intelligence officers around Snowden in the airport transit area.

How Edward Snowden May Have Botched Blowing The Whistle On The World's Largest Spy Agency

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/edward-snowden-screwed-up-big-time-2013-6#ixzz2XR8agIHp

As I'd noted before, Snowden made the decision to place his person in the hands of complete strangers in different countries in different parts of the world, all of whom are hostile towards the US and all the while with the US hot on his trail. Quoting Albert Ho, Snowden's Hong Kong attorney, Hes a kid, I really think hes a kid, I think he never anticipated this would be such a big matter in Hong Kong.

Snowden just keeps shooting himself in the, well, private parts. Snowden is stupid or unbalanced or both.

And the relevance to what the US Govt did is?????

I don't care if he was a mass murderer. No matter how hard you try to make him look stupid, and you are a try hard, it doesn't matter.

This is about what the Govt is doing. If Snowden was Hitler incarnate it still doesn't lessen what the Govt is doing to it's own people and the rest of the world.

Why do you care so much what the government is doing to US if not here? I don't get the motivation here. If you are in another country, it's up to your own country to protect your privacy and you have no legal privacy rights with regard to US actions or China or Russia. Everyone is listening to everyone so stop sweating it and get on with life if not in US.

[NeverSure]

I think most countries spy on each other and that's not news to me.

What really fries my azz here is having the government spy on individuals in direct conflict with our constitution. I can actually see it being constitutional to listen in to phone calls from suspected terrorists when the calls are coming in from overseas, but this slippery slope of what amounts to wiretapping everyone for no lawful reason really galls me.

Once again no, I won't agree to give up my freedom for a little perceived security.

I hope Snowden gets away.

[geriatrickid]

What really annoyed me as a non-American about the whole PRISM thing was the assumption by a lot of your countrymen that it was OK for the US to spy on us but not on you.

Are you living in fantasyland? The spy agencies of many countries have been intercepting personal communications of foreigners including US nationals for decades. Would you be shocked to know that the Australian government is spending approx. $160million to construct additional electronic surveillance facilities outside Canberra to cope with the inflow of information from the USA? How about the Canadian government funding a specific agency that includes in its mandate "spying" on US nationals? Why would a small country like Canada have a published budget of $350 million and 1800 employees for its electronic spy agency?

The Government of Canada has defined foreign intelligence in the following terms:

Foreign intelligence refers to intelligence or information concerning the capabilities, intentions or activities of foreign states, corporations, or persons. It may include information of a political, economic, military, scientific, or social nature, and can produce information with security implications

Canada's electronic spy agency is called the CSE. in the United Kingdom, it is called the Government Communications Headquarters; in Australia, it is called the Defence Signals Directorate; and in New Zealand, it is called the Government Communications Security Bureau.

ALL of these agencies can and do intercept the personal communications of US citizens. As such, I wouldn't single out the US government for intercepting other countries communications.

Did you know that Ecuador also spies on its neighbours?

Welcome to reality.

[NeverSure]

What really annoyed me as a non-American about the whole PRISM thing was the assumption by a lot of your countrymen that it was OK for the US to spy on us but not on you.

Are you living in fantasyland? The spy agencies of many countries have been intercepting personal communications of foreigners including US nationals for decades. Would you be shocked to know that the Australian government is spending approx. $160million to construct additional electronic surveillance facilities outside Canberra to cope with the inflow of information from the USA? How about the Canadian government funding a specific agency that includes in its mandate "spying" on US nationals? Why would a small country like Canada have a published budget of $350 million and 1800 employees for its electronic spy agency?

The Government of Canada has defined foreign intelligence in the following terms:

Foreign intelligence refers to intelligence or information concerning the capabilities, intentions or activities of foreign states, corporations, or persons. It may include information of a political, economic, military, scientific, or social nature, and can produce information with security implications

Canada's electronic spy agency is called the CSE. in the United Kingdom, it is called the Government Communications Headquarters; in Australia, it is called the Defence Signals Directorate; and in New Zealand, it is called the Government Communications Security Bureau.

ALL of these agencies can and do intercept the personal communications of US citizens. As such, I wouldn't single out the US government for intercepting other countries communications.

Did you know that Ecuador also spies on its neighbours?

Welcome to reality.

Well, there are some things we can do. Right now I'm on the West Coast of the US. But my IP address says I'm in Skipton, UK. I'm spoofing my mac address.

I have a few business associates that I talk to via vpn. My ordinary emails etc. will just have to go as what they are, but still appearing to come from the UK with spoofed IP address and a spoofed email address. My emails could be figured out but I'll make them work a bit for it.

[lovetotravel]

I think most countries spy on each other and that's not news to me.

What really fries my azz here is having the government spy on individuals in direct conflict with our constitution. I can actually see it being constitutional to listen in to phone calls from suspected terrorists when the calls are coming in from overseas, but this slippery slope of what amounts to wiretapping everyone for no lawful reason really galls me.

Once again no, I won't agree to give up my freedom for a little perceived security.

I hope Snowden gets away.

What Snowden did was a good thing. Some bad practices were exposed. But his travel to China and Russia, 2 countries with some of the worst suppression of individual's rights, is not a good thing.

[mania]

What Snowden did was a good thing. Some bad practices were exposed. But his travel to China and Russia, 2 countries with some of the worst suppression of individual's rights, is not a good thing.

Would be nice if there were choices of fair places with a backbone but,

As it stands it is not easy to find a country that is not under the thumb of the US

Paid for one way or another with strings attached to "preferential" treatment & grants etc.

Lets face it Snowdens choices were very limited as is anyone's who dare point out

a wrongdoing if a branch of the US govt is the wrongdoer

Especially if one of the multitude of US

secret services are the ones doing the wrongful deeds

Even if he chose a lesser country that agreed with him morally

as a pivot point but that could not defend him he would probably

be a drone statistic by now

Being in Russia & China is his drone safe option.

Edited June 28, 2013 by mania

[F430murci]

About time, but too late thanks to all the other blow hards going off for the last 3 or 4 days.

President Obama sought Thursday to minimize the significance of a fugitive former national security contractor wanted for leaking government secrets, calling him a 29-year-old hacker and suggesting that American frustration with China and Russia for apparently helping him evade extradition was not worth damaging relations with those countries.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/28/world/snowden.html

Edited June 28, 2013 by F430murci

[Credo]

What really annoyed me as a non-American about the whole PRISM thing was the assumption by a lot of your countrymen that it was OK for the US to spy on us but not on you.

Are you living in fantasyland? The spy agencies of many countries have been intercepting personal communications of foreigners including US nationals for decades. Would you be shocked to know that the Australian government is spending approx. $160million to construct additional electronic surveillance facilities outside Canberra to cope with the inflow of information from the USA? How about the Canadian government funding a specific agency that includes in its mandate "spying" on US nationals? Why would a small country like Canada have a published budget of $350 million and 1800 employees for its electronic spy agency?

The Government of Canada has defined foreign intelligence in the following terms:

Foreign intelligence refers to intelligence or information concerning the capabilities, intentions or activities of foreign states, corporations, or persons. It may include information of a political, economic, military, scientific, or social nature, and can produce information with security implications

Canada's electronic spy agency is called the CSE. in the United Kingdom, it is called the Government Communications Headquarters; in Australia, it is called the Defence Signals Directorate; and in New Zealand, it is called the Government Communications Security Bureau.

ALL of these agencies can and do intercept the personal communications of US citizens. As such, I wouldn't single out the US government for intercepting other countries communications.

Did you know that Ecuador also spies on its neighbours?

Welcome to reality.

Well, there are some things we can do. Right now I'm on the West Coast of the US. But my IP address says I'm in Skipton, UK. I'm spoofing my mac address.

I have a few business associates that I talk to via vpn. My ordinary emails etc. will just have to go as what they are, but still appearing to come from the UK with spoofed IP address and a spoofed email address. My emails could be figured out but I'll make them work a bit for it.

So you think they are really after you? For what?

My guess is that all this huge amount of data is of no interest to big brother. He could access it at some time, but unless you are planning some terrorist activity, you probably are of no consequence or interest to anybody.

[mania]

So you think they are really after you? For what?

My guess is that all this huge amount of data is of no interest to big brother. He could access it at some time, but unless you are planning some terrorist activity, you probably are of no consequence or interest to anybody.

Yeah I guess if a peeping tom looks into a few million bathroom windows

they may not all peak his interest.

Does that make his peeping legit?

Edited June 28, 2013 by mania

[Publicus]

No, I don't think so at all. It's not like our other CAH, like drone killing civilians, but it supports that. Don't the citizens of other nations, not to mention Americans of course, have the right to an expectation of privacy? Aren't we committing a crime against them when we invade their privacy without just cause?

What really annoyed me as a non-American about the whole PRISM thing was the assumption by a lot of your countrymen that it was OK for the US to spy on us but not on you.

Your government knows all about all of these programs. Take the matter up with the political parties in your own back yard and the respective prime ministers of each of the two major parties in your own country. You can't vote in the United States for the obvious reason. Talk to someone who is directly accountable to you at the ballot box. In the meanwhile, try to stay on topic.

My government might know about these programmes but I suspect it has little or no control over them. How about asking your government to stick to its own back yard?. Until such time as my posts disappear they ARE on topic.

Your government, and if you're a Brit or in a commonwealth country it's not your sovereign government, participates in these programs and have been harmed by Snowden's childish self-indulgences which have now come up squarely against real adults in the real world, such as Putin and Xi Jinping before him - double timers such as Correa, Raul Castro, the new guy in Venezuela etc. (I hope Snowden ends up in North Korea - that would be a lifetime of punishment ha ha.)

By participating in these programs the Queen's governments recognize them and have inputs that affect the programs and what they do. Your parliaments are kept apprised of what your own intelligence agencies do, individually and jointly with the US and other participating governments.

You can't put everything on the United States. You can't shirk your own responsibility to hold to account the people you are allowed to vote for. You can't just always and facilely pass the buck to always and every time blame the United States. You have to be aware of what the Queen's governments do, how they do things, the cost to the taxpayer, the impact on the society and a whole lot of other things.

Stop being shirkers.

Grow up.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Publicus

[Credo]

The regulations governing it were passed by congress. It is legitimate. If you don't like it then have the Act repealed.

I am afraid we live in a world where finding out about people is going to be very, very easy.

[lovetotravel]

What Snowden did was a good thing. Some bad practices were exposed. But his travel to China and Russia, 2 countries with some of the worst suppression of individual's rights, is not a good thing.

Would be nice if there were choices of fair places with a backbone but,

As it stands it is not easy to find a country that is not under the thumb of the US

Paid for one way or another with strings attached to "preferential" treatment & grants etc.

Lets face it Snowdens choices were very limited as is anyone's who dare point out

a wrongdoing if a branch of the US govt is the wrongdoer

Especially if one of the multitude of US

secret services are the ones doing the wrongful deeds

Even if he chose a lesser country that agreed with him morally

as a pivot point but that could not defend him he would probably

be a drone statistic by now

Being in Russia & China is his drone safe option.

I take a different approach. He broke a law. That's understood by all. Many countries back each other with regards to criminals. If it was a German that did this in their country, then ran to the US, they'd probably be sent back to Germany. Same with most European countries. Extradition treaties and all.

No matter what you think, the legal system in the US is quite fair. Sometimes too fair. Just look at OJ!

Again, what he did was a good thing, but it did break some laws. For that, he'll have to pay the price.

[mania]

Again, what he did was a good thing, but it did break some laws. For that, he'll have to pay the price.

I understand but,

I do necessarily agree he broke any laws by doing his patriotic duty

Yes he will pay as all patriots do. I just hope the tyrants also pay.

“Occasionally the tree of Liberty must be watered with the blood of Patriots and Tyrants.”

― Thomas Jefferson

Edited June 28, 2013 by mania

[Jingthing]

It might be time for Snowden to learn some Russkie.

One interesting thing about this article is the information about why Cuba might be unwilling to have him land there, and of course there are no direct flights from Moscow to Quito:

But if he really wants to keep himself free from the very long arms of American justice, Russia might offer him the closest he can get to absolute security.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/06/27/snowdens-only-safe-choice-may-be-to-stay-in-russia-indefinitely/

[wealth]

Obama: Edward Snowden Will Be A Made-For-TV Movie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eJAbiTcNWZM

hahahaha got to laugh at the bowing a bit ... still, the case is not over and/or finished

Anyway, lets enjoy the tuning down of the manhunt. Was about time ...

Snowden will soon come forward and tell us where he is.

[Credo]

You are being sillier than I thought. You think the manhunt is being turned down? Just ask Bin Laden how that worked out for him.

[FDog]

What really annoyed me as a non-American about the whole PRISM thing was the assumption by a lot of your countrymen that it was OK for the US to spy on us but not on you.

Are you living in fantasyland? The spy agencies of many countries have been intercepting personal communications of foreigners including US nationals for decades. Would you be shocked to know that the Australian government is spending approx. $160million to construct additional electronic surveillance facilities outside Canberra to cope with the inflow of information from the USA? How about the Canadian government funding a specific agency that includes in its mandate "spying" on US nationals? Why would a small country like Canada have a published budget of $350 million and 1800 employees for its electronic spy agency?

The Government of Canada has defined foreign intelligence in the following terms:

Foreign intelligence refers to intelligence or information concerning the capabilities, intentions or activities of foreign states, corporations, or persons. It may include information of a political, economic, military, scientific, or social nature, and can produce information with security implications

Canada's electronic spy agency is called the CSE. in the United Kingdom, it is called the Government Communications Headquarters; in Australia, it is called the Defence Signals Directorate; and in New Zealand, it is called the Government Communications Security Bureau.

ALL of these agencies can and do intercept the personal communications of US citizens. As such, I wouldn't single out the US government for intercepting other countries communications.

Did you know that Ecuador also spies on its neighbours?

Welcome to reality.

Well, there are some things we can do. Right now I'm on the West Coast of the US. But my IP address says I'm in Skipton, UK. I'm spoofing my mac address.

I have a few business associates that I talk to via vpn. My ordinary emails etc. will just have to go as what they are, but still appearing to come from the UK with spoofed IP address and a spoofed email address. My emails could be figured out but I'll make them work a bit for it.

So you think they are really after you? For what?

My guess is that all this huge amount of data is of no interest to big brother. He could access it at some time, but unless you are planning some terrorist activity, you probably are of no consequence or interest to anybody.

Until you become an activist or say anything against a government or insinuate the govt has acted wrongly. Even if you are right about the govt acting wrongly, your previous emails and phone conversations etc will be showed to the world. Everything in your private life laid bare.

Be careful you don't accidently take a ladyboy home one night, even if you do nothing and send her/him on their way, it will be brought out to the world to embarrass you in any way that can be done.

All this reminds me of the J Edgar Hoover FBI days.