Ecuador 'analysing' Snowden asylum request: FM

[F430murci]

Ecuador won't give him up if he lands there. How is the USA supposed to get him from Ecuador? A military operation?

We can make Ecuador squirm and yes, easy for us to operate in a place like Ecuador with worry regarding repercussions. This we cannot do in China or Russia without serious consequences. Heck, we could grab President Correra at any time if we really wanted.

[wealth]

It's actually not about sanctions. The USA has a special favorable program now with Ecuador and word is if stopped, that's 400,000 Ecuadorian jobs lost. Nothing to do with sanctions. Just the option of dropping an especially favorable program for them.

Correa is taking a big risk with his showboating, but he won't get hurt, only a lot of his people.

so these projects serving the corporate interests and give people a job for a short while and then get screwed like everywhere. Countries without the corporate are better of and can enjoy more freedom than with it.

The same they try/tried in Venezuela when Chavez was working it out for his people and give everyone a share of the oil rich resources.

Edited June 26, 2013 by wealth

[Scott]

Off-topic post deleted. Stay on topic. If you wish to argue the merits of different forms of gov't, there are other threads in which to do it.

Edit: And replies to deleted posts.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Scott

[mania]

It's actually not about sanctions. The USA has a special favorable program now with Ecuador and word is if stopped, that's 400,000 Ecuadorian jobs lost. Nothing to do with sanctions. Just the option of dropping an especially favorable program for them.

Correa is taking a big risk with his showboating, but he won't get hurt, only a lot of his people.

Causing the loss of 400,000 jobs?...not saying it is possible or true but, it sure fits a sanction definition to me.

economic sanctions

(Government, Politics & Diplomacy) any actions taken by one nation or group of nations to harm the economy of another nation or group, often to force a political change

But again such childish acts are childish & would be seen as such on the worlds stage.

Edited June 26, 2013 by mania

[F430murci]

But in Moscow, Mr. Snowden was being compared to cold war dissidents. I have never heard of any case when the United States would extradite someones fugitive spy, said Vlacheslav Nikonov, a member of Parliament. It just never happened. Why would they expect that would happen?

As for the subject of all this attention, Mr. Snowden remained in the transit zone of Moscows Sheremetyevo Airport. Mr. Putin said Russian intelligence agencies had not questioned him, although some independent analysts cast doubt on that assertion. If I still worked there, I would talk to him, said Aleksandr Kondaurov, a retired K.G.B. general.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/26/world/snowden.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

This true, we would not give up such a person to Russia so no surprise they are refusing to send him back. That would dissuade future people or spies from going to Russia with intel.

[JDGRUEN]

I don't know if he will be caught but even if he makes it to Ecuador, governments have been known to CHANGE there ...

The US has revoked his passport, so he cannot travel unless he somehow gets a new passport, fake one, or something else. Unless he pulls a Jason Bourne, he is on his way to a date at some point with a prosecutor of High Treason.

If Ecuador gave Snowden asylum - there is nothing preventing the Russian Government (with Putin's ok) from granting a special document and allowing Snowden to proceed. Passports and Visas are for people in ordinary circumstances. Snowden's circumstances are quite extraordinary to say the least. I wouldn't be surprised if Ecuador agreed to take Snowden in that Putin would fly Snowden there on a Russian Military transport. It only takes a signature on a piece of paper to grant Snowden limited rights to egress from Russia and the same for entry into Ecuador or another country ...

Edited June 26, 2013 by JDGRUEN

[Jingthing]

It's actually not about sanctions. The USA has a special favorable program now with Ecuador and word is if stopped, that's 400,000 Ecuadorian jobs lost. Nothing to do with sanctions. Just the option of dropping an especially favorable program for them.

Correa is taking a big risk with his showboating, but he won't get hurt, only a lot of his people.

Causing the loss of 400,000 jobs?...not saying it is possible or true but, it sure fits a sanction definition to me.

It is possible.

It is true.

It is NOT sanctions!

Thanks to the Andean Trade Promotion and Drug Protection Act, Ecuador — which uses the dollar as its currency — is able to export many goods to the United States duty-free, supporting roughly 400,000 jobs in a country of 14 million people.

This isn't rocket science. Ecuador is now enjoying a SPECIAL BREAK from the U.S. Dropping that special treatment has nothing to do with sanctions.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/snowden-case-highlights-ecuadors-double-standard/2013/06/24/c8e04ffc-dcfd-11e2-bd83-e99e43c336ed_story.html

[F430murci]

This sounds familiar about taking juicy stuff just in case it is needed for leverage:

NSA leaker Snowden remains in the Moscow airport, within the "no-man's land" of the international transit zone, according to Vladimir Putin. The president of Venezuela has publicly invited Snowden to apply for asylum there and the reporter who broke the story has revealed that Snowden has a "plan B" for the secret documents in his possession if he is captured. NBC's Peter Alexander reports.

. . .

Journalists camped out at Sheremetyevo airport have not spotted Snowden inside, or leaving, the transit area. He has not registered at a hotel in the transit zone, hotel sources told Reuters.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/26/world/snowden.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

I wonder what "plan B" might be. He is just playing with fire now and playing a game he can never really win.

Edited June 26, 2013 by F430murci

[Credo]

He'd best resist playing with the big boys. He is likely to get hurt.

[F430murci]

Asked if Ecuador would provide protection to Snowden while considering his request for asylum, Patino said through a translator that if Snowden "goes to the embassy, then we will make a decision."

Patino refused to say what criteria Ecuador would use to decide, but added that his government would "consider all these risks," including concerns that it would hurt trade with the U.S. and his country's economy.

http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=19491151

[F430murci]

Attaboy Snowden, good job:

Shortly after Edward Snowden leaked documents about the secret NSA surveillance programs, chat rooms and websites used by like-minded extremists and would-be recruits advised users how to avoid NSA detection, from telling them not to use their real phone numbers to recommending specific online software programs to keep spies from tracking their computers' physical locations.

House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers said there are "changes we can already see being made by the folks who wish to do us harm, and our allies harm."

http://m.timesofindia.com/world/us/Al-Qaida-said-to-be-changing-its-ways-after-Snowdens-leaks/articleshow/20777034.cms

[F430murci]

Interesting pros and cons of top 10 spots Snowden may consider:

Snowden: World's top places of refuge

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/26/travel/snowden-places-of-refuge/?hpt=po_t1

[mania]

It is NOT sanctions!

Ecuador is now enjoying a SPECIAL BREAK from the U.S. Dropping that special treatment has nothing to do with sanctions.

Tomato/Tomahto

[sustento]

Attaboy Snowden, good job:

Shortly after Edward Snowden leaked documents about the secret NSA surveillance programs, chat rooms and websites used by like-minded extremists and would-be recruits advised users how to avoid NSA detection, from telling them not to use their real phone numbers to recommending specific online software programs to keep spies from tracking their computers' physical locations.

What you mean like the online software programs that half the expats in Thailand use to watch TV from their home country? You talk as though this is all some big secret that no-one knew anything about before Snowden arrived.

[F430murci]

Attaboy Snowden, good job:

Shortly after Edward Snowden leaked documents about the secret NSA surveillance programs, chat rooms and websites used by like-minded extremists and would-be recruits advised users how to avoid NSA detection, from telling them not to use their real phone numbers to recommending specific online software programs to keep spies from tracking their computers' physical locations.

What you mean like the online software programs that half the expats in Thailand use to watch TV from their home country? You talk as though this is all some big secret that no-one knew anything about before Snowden arrived.

Not me saying terrorists communication patterns have changed. Just quoting articles.

[sustento]

Attaboy Snowden, good job:

Shortly after Edward Snowden leaked documents about the secret NSA surveillance programs, chat rooms and websites used by like-minded extremists and would-be recruits advised users how to avoid NSA detection, from telling them not to use their real phone numbers to recommending specific online software programs to keep spies from tracking their computers' physical locations.

What you mean like the online software programs that half the expats in Thailand use to watch TV from their home country? You talk as though this is all some big secret that no-one knew anything about before Snowden arrived.

Not me saying terrorists communication patterns have changed. Just quoting articles.

Articles which quote anonymous US sources who won't take responsibility for what they say:

" The officials spoke anonymously because they were not authorized to speak about the intelligence matters publicly."

"The officials wouldn't go into details on how they know this, whether it's terrorists switching email accounts or cellphone providers or adopting new encryption techniques, but a lawmaker briefed on the matter..."

"The lawmaker spoke anonymously because he would not discuss the confidential briefing by name."

Edited June 26, 2013 by sustento

[F430murci]

Attaboy Snowden, good job:

Shortly after Edward Snowden leaked documents about the secret NSA surveillance programs, chat rooms and websites used by like-minded extremists and would-be recruits advised users how to avoid NSA detection, from telling them not to use their real phone numbers to recommending specific online software programs to keep spies from tracking their computers' physical locations.

What you mean like the online software programs that half the expats in Thailand use to watch TV from their home country? You talk as though this is all some big secret that no-one knew anything about before Snowden arrived.

Not me saying terrorists communication patterns have changed. Just quoting articles.

Articles which quote anonymous US sources who won't take responsibility for what they say:

" The officials spoke anonymously because they were not authorized to speak about the intelligence matters publicly."

"The officials wouldn't go into details on how they know this, whether it's terrorists switching email accounts or cellphone providers or adopting new encryption techniques, but a lawmaker briefed on the matter..."

"The lawmaker spoke anonymously because he would not discuss the confidential briefing by name."

So media just making this stuff up? Media works with anonymous sources on lots of issues. Show me the articles saying Snowden's acts have not caused these issues. Just not liking something does not make it a lie.

[sustento]

Why does it necessarily have to be the media which makes stuff up? Embarrassed governments might want to do that to save some face...

[F430murci]

Really, well then there must be lots of credible sources out there writing Snowden's acts have not had an impact. Granted there is a lot of bs out there, but this is common sense. Not rocket science to connect dots.

[JDGRUEN]

Attaboy Snowden, good job:

Shortly after Edward Snowden leaked documents about the secret NSA surveillance programs, chat rooms and websites used by like-minded extremists and would-be recruits advised users how to avoid NSA detection, from telling them not to use their real phone numbers to recommending specific online software programs to keep spies from tracking their computers' physical locations.

What you mean like the online software programs that half the expats in Thailand use to watch TV from their home country? You talk as though this is all some big secret that no-one knew anything about before Snowden arrived.

I doubt that terrorists around the world were blabbing their activities wholesale on every open communications venue... They had to know they were being watched or at least take caution for such surveillance. I am not pleased that so many in the American Government deflect the conservation from wrongs the NSA has done and is probably still doing - to agonizing over Snowden... "Watch the right hand" - "Pay no attention to the left hand" ... move along nothing to see - no harm - no foul ... Not in my book - lots of NSA fouls.

[sustento]

All this confidentiality stuff has been available free for years. Phil Zimmerman developed PGP. The US government tried to prosecute him but dropped it eventually. He's now developing Zfone which is a secure VOIP protocol.

https://www.philzimmermann.com/EN/background/index.html

[wealth]

Attaboy Snowden, good job:

Shortly after Edward Snowden leaked documents about the secret NSA surveillance programs, chat rooms and websites used by like-minded extremists and would-be recruits advised users how to avoid NSA detection, from telling them not to use their real phone numbers to recommending specific online software programs to keep spies from tracking their computers' physical locations.

House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers said there are "changes we can already see being made by the folks who wish to do us harm, and our allies harm."

http://m.timesofindia.com/world/us/Al-Qaida-said-to-be-changing-its-ways-after-Snowdens-leaks/articleshow/20777034.cms

this is total nonsense. Every criminal knows that phones, emails and chats are tapped since decades. They use public phones for their aim and their own private mobiles for standard chitchat.

[lannarebirth]

He'd best resist playing with the big boys. He is likely to get hurt.

Who are you referring to? Obama?

[F430murci]

Attaboy Snowden, good job:

Shortly after Edward Snowden leaked documents about the secret NSA surveillance programs, chat rooms and websites used by like-minded extremists and would-be recruits advised users how to avoid NSA detection, from telling them not to use their real phone numbers to recommending specific online software programs to keep spies from tracking their computers' physical locations.

House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers said there are "changes we can already see being made by the folks who wish to do us harm, and our allies harm."

http://m.timesofindia.com/world/us/Al-Qaida-said-to-be-changing-its-ways-after-Snowdens-leaks/articleshow/20777034.cms

this is total nonsense. Every criminal knows that phones, emails and chats are tapped since decades. They use public phones for their aim and their own private mobiles for standard chitchat.

Cool. If everyone already knew everything (sure he did not go into major details of bigger issues) then Snowden simply wasted his time and ruined his life to tell everyone what everyone already knew.

You guys cannot have it both ways . . .

[wealth]

Snowden Not Being 'Debriefed' by FSB – WikiLeaks

MOSCOW, June 26 (RIA Novosti) – Fugitive former CIA employee Edward Snowden, who is wanted by the United States for leaking state secrets, is not collaborating with Russia's Federal Security Service, the FSB, anti-secrecy group WikiLeaks said on its Twitter feed Wednesday.

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20130626/181888578/Snowden-Not-Being-Debriefed-by-FSB--WikiLeaks.html

[Maestro]

I have deleted an off-topic post about Syria and Israel and the replies to it.

[Publicus]

Now that the president of Equador has said it will take at least two months to decide on Snowden's application for asylum, poor Edward the stupid has gone begging to Venezuela, which says it would be pleased to do it. I guess Equadorian Pres Correa likes the preferred nation trade deal Equador has had with the US and which comes before Congress and Prez Obama for renewal next month.

Catch me if you can because I'm stuck in this dumpy Moscow airport transit area and I don't know where I'm going next either.That is, if I can manage to go anywhere at all.

Assange certainly hasn't been able to get Snowden to wherever it is Snowden needs to go. Oh yes, I'd almost forgot, Assange is holed up in the Equadorian Embassy in London the past year in a broom closet or some such. Both Assange and Snowden appear to be in an indefinite detention. Both are wanted by the US government on espionage charges. These guys whose purpose in life is to try to screw the United States always seem to find themselves in a river of sh*t.

Venezuelan President: We Would 'Almost Certainly' Grant Asylum To Edward Snowden

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/venezuela-edward-snowden-asylum-2013-6#ixzz2XMxO4q7s

Edited June 27, 2013 by Publicus

[Publicus]

Snowden Not Being 'Debriefed' by FSB – WikiLeaks

MOSCOW, June 26 (RIA Novosti) – Fugitive former CIA employee Edward Snowden, who is wanted by the United States for leaking state secrets, is not collaborating with Russia's Federal Security Service, the FSB, anti-secrecy group WikiLeaks said on its Twitter feed Wednesday.

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20130626/181888578/Snowden-Not-Being-Debriefed-by-FSB--WikiLeaks.html

And I have some prime land in Florida I can sell you real cheap - a tremendous once in a lifetime deal, for you today only. .

Hey, if Snowden didn't steal the reams of highly classified information to make them public and to pass on to the CCP from Hong Kong, and now Moscow where he is their hostage, then for what reason did he steal them? To crunch them up to eat with milk for breakfast?!

Wikileaks is going to publish everything regardless of what happens to Snowden. The CCP and the Russians want to know now, first. The rest of the world will have to wait but we'll all see everything sooner or later.

Get real.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Publicus

[Jingthing]

Yes, Correa has chickened out by saying it will take MONTHS to decide on asylum. He's clearly trying to play a game to preserve the special trade PREFERENCES Ecuador now enjoys with the USA. The timing of the issue in Congress might prove to be unfortunate for Snowden. Again this isn't about sanctions, it's about consequences of possibly losing SPECIAL breaks for being actively provocative towards the USA.

http://www.cuencahighlife.com/post/2013/06/26/ECUADOR-DIGEST3cbr3eHow-much-damage-would-Swnowden-asylum-cause-Ecuador.aspx

The most likely casualty of sheltering Mr. Snowden would be the trade preferences, which have been in place since the early 1990s. Originally designed for several Andean nations, Ecuador is the last remaining recipient. But the preferences, which applied to about $429 million in non-oil exports last year, expire at the end of July unless they are renewed by Congress.

...

At the same time, Ecuador has staked out a fallback position, petitioning to include roses, frozen broccoli and canned artichokes in a separate trade program, the Generalized System of Preferences. That decision is controlled by the White House, so Ecuador is essentially asking President Obama’s help in getting around opposition in Congress.

Mr. Obama must decide by Monday whether he will include those items — a move that becomes increasingly thorny as the standoff over Mr. Snowden continues.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Jingthing

[F430murci]

Venezuela. Not where I would want to live. I could not wait to get the f out of there when I was there in 1989 and the cops and everyone will totally screw with you if you look American.

Edited June 27, 2013 by F430murci