Abhisit says he's not worried by 2010 crackdown criminal charges

[webfact]

Abhisit Says He's Not Worried By 2010 Crackdown Criminal Charges


Mr. Abhisit Vejjajeeva and Mr. Suthep Thaugsuban at the Attorney General office.
Photo: KHAOSOD English

BANGKOK:-- Former PM Abhisit Vejjajeeva visited the Attorney General office to acknowledge the criminal charges brought against him for his role as then-Prime Minister in the 2010 military operation which ended Redshirts mass protests in central Bangkok and led to more than 90 fatalities.

The Division of Special Investigation (DSI) charged Mr. Abhisit and his deputy at the time, Mr. Suthep Thaugsuban, on the ground of conspiring to cause other individuals to commit murders.

Mr. Abhisit and Mr. Suthep chaired the Center for Resolution of Emergency Situation (CRES) in April-May 2010 which oversaw the crackdown of the Redshirts protesters who occupied parts of Bangkok to call for fresh election. CRES authorized use of live ammunition in many of these operations, which concluded on 19 May 2010.

The duo were also charged specifically on the cases of 2 individuals - one of them is a 13 year old boy - whom the court said were shot to death by the soldiers at Ratchapralop Road in May 2010. The DSI argued Mr. Abhisit and Mr. Suthep should be held responsible for their deaths as the soldiers were operating under orders of CRES.

Speaking to reporters at the Attorney General office, which situated in the compound of Ratchapisek Criminal Court compound, Mr. Suthep said he and Mr. Abhisit are ready to fight the legal procedure. He claimed that DSI has no legitimacy to pursue their charges, and added that he already filed challenge legal against the DSI. [more...]

Full story: http://www.khaosod.co.th/en/view_newsonline.php?newsid=TVRNM01qSXpOekk1TXc9PQ==

-- KHAOSOD English 2013-06-26

[bigbamboo]

Looks like Abhisit is going to play the white man on this. Unlike others we won't mention he will stick around and face the music and put his faith in Thai justice. How brave is that?

[PoodMaiDai]

Because everyone knows nothing will come of it. And if it does it will be reversed as soon as his party is back in office, and the shenanigans get to start all over again.

Zero accountability.

[ratcatcher]

I expect to hear of Mr Chalerm's beheading sometime in the next 9 months. Due to his failure to bring about the return of Thaksin of Arabia.

Mr Abhisit is acting like a gentleman under the circustances. No scaffold for him or Mr Suthep I bet.

[TomTao]

What a difference in leaders! One who shall not be named, but we all know who, runs away with his tail tucked between his legs instead of stating his case in court, the other stays to face the heat and to state his case in court, being exmilitary, I know which one I would follow and which one I would not, one has courage, the other doesn't.

[whybother]

on the ground of conspiring to cause other individuals to commit murders.

Doesn't someone need to be charged and convicted of murder for Abhisit to be able to be charged with "causing other individuals to commit murders"?

[ratcatcher]

on the ground of conspiring to cause other individuals to commit murders.

Doesn't someone need to be charged and convicted of murder for Abhisit to be able to be charged with "causing other individuals to commit murders"?

Unfortunately, that would be logical, but, hey you know..........................

[monkeycountry]

Because everyone knows nothing will come of it. And if it does it will be reversed as soon as his party is back in office, and the shenanigans get to start all over again.

Zero accountability.

Accountability for what??

Are you suggesting that Yingluck should be charged with murder every time a police officer or soldier under her command kills an armed criminal or a civilian?

Unless the DSI can prove that Abhisit/Suther specifically ordered the army to kill unarmed civilians there is no case - and I think everyone knows that they did not give such an order! The only reason this case is in court is because it damages Abhisit politically. I bet you there is not a single PTP MP who believes they will be convicted of anything!

Abhisit and Suthep are not stupid, so they of course also know what the verdict will be, which is why they are not worried about anything but perhaps their political career. However, since they choose not to flee, and fight their cases like men, they will ultimately make Thaksin (who fled his cases) look like a giant pussy, except in the eyes of the red shirts of course, who see him as some sort of Gandhi/Mandela - after Thaksin told them who Gandhi and Mandela is :-D

Edited June 26, 2013 by monkeycountry

[tominbkk]

They should be thanking Abhisit. Imagine if they had let the red terrorists go any further than they did. Most of downtown would have been burned down (hint - see my signature).

[monkeycountry]

on the ground of conspiring to cause other individuals to commit murders.

Doesn't someone need to be charged and convicted of murder for Abhisit to be able to be charged with "causing other individuals to commit murders"?

Unfortunately, that would be logical, but, hey you know..........................

Logic is taught (optionally) at most western universities and colleges, but jokes aside I honestly do not think it is taught anywhere in Thailand, hence the concept is unfamiliar to Thais.

However I suppose it is illegal to conspire to cause others to commit murder, even if no murder has taken place!

Edited June 26, 2013 by monkeycountry

[Lite Beer]

DSI seeks indictment against former PM Abhisit
By English News

BANGKOK, June 26 – Thailand's Department of Special Investigation (DSI) today sought an indictment against former prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and his deputy Suthep Thaugsuban for murder and attempted murder in the 2010 political protest of the anti-government red shirt movement.

The DSI handed over nine boxes, containing 11,422 pages of documents in 61 files, to the Office of Attorney General, which has responsibility for bringing legal action in court.

Wannapong Kocharak, DSI deputy director general, who heads the investigation team said the two politicians collaborated in the crackdown on demonstrators during the political protests in Ratchaprasong area on April-May 2010 which resulted in many deaths and injuries.

Mr Abhisit was then prime minister and Mr Suthep was deputy prime minister and director of the now-dissolved Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation which assigned military forces to disperse the demonstration of the Red Shirt’s United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD).

Mr Abhisit and Mr Suthep, accompanied by their lawyer Bundith Siriphan, met with Winai Damrongmongkolkul, director-general of the Office of the Attorney General (OAG)'s Department of Special Litigation, at the OAG.

They were instructed to appear before the DSL on August 26 to hear the charges.

Mr Abhisit said he and Mr Suthep denied all charges and would petition against the DSI whom, they said, were not authorised to investigate the case which involved state officials.

He said they would submit their complaints to the National Counter Corruption Commission, adding that he has filed lawsuits against four DSI investigation members including director general Tarit Pengdith for abuse of power and persecution.

The court set early next month for the first trial, he said.

DSL director general Winai said the DSI charges against Mr Abhisit and Mr Suthep were consequences of the deaths of Phan Kamkong, 43, and Kunakorn Srisuwan, 14, and attempted murder of Samorn Maithong, a van driver, in the 2010 political violence.

He admitted that he felt stressed but not pressured in having to handle the case.

It should take at least two months to thoroughly study the documents, he said, adding that he would lead a five-member team to take charge of the case. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2013-06-26

[Thai at Heart]

on the ground of conspiring to cause other individuals to commit murders.

Doesn't someone need to be charged and convicted of murder for Abhisit to be able to be charged with "causing other individuals to commit murders"?

Apparently he possessed someone who he mind controlled to do it.

[Thai at Heart]

on the ground of conspiring to cause other individuals to commit murders.

Doesn't someone need to be charged and convicted of murder for Abhisit to be able to be charged with "causing other individuals to commit murders"?

Unfortunately, that would be logical, but, hey you know..........................

Logic is taught (optionally) at most western universities and colleges, but jokes aside I honestly do not think it is taught anywhere in Thailand, hence the concept is unfamiliar to Thais.

However I suppose it is illegal to conspire to cause others to commit murder, even if no murder has taken place!

These are supposedly trained lawyer s and prosecutors doing this.

[ratcatcher]

[Payboy]

The DSI handed over nine boxes

Oops! Ones gone missing with all the rice.

[PoodMaiDai]

Because everyone knows nothing will come of it. And if it does it will be reversed as soon as his party is back in office, and the shenanigans get to start all over again.

Zero accountability.

Accountability for what??

For anything. Ever.

[webfact]

DSI seeks indictment against former PM Abhisit
By English News



BANGKOK, June 27 – Thailand's Department of Special Investigation (DSI) yesterday sought an indictment against former prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and his deputy Suthep Thaugsuban for murder and attempted murder in the 2010 political protest of the anti-government red shirt movement.

The DSI handed over nine boxes, containing 11,422 pages of documents in 61 files, to the Office of Attorney General, which has responsibility for bringing legal action in court.

Wannapong Kocharak, DSI deputy director general, who heads the investigation team said the two politicians collaborated in the crackdown on demonstrators during the political protests in Ratchaprasong area on April-May 2010 which resulted in many deaths and injuries.

Mr Abhisit was then prime minister and Mr Suthep was deputy prime minister and director of the now-dissolved Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation which assigned military forces to disperse the demonstration of the Red Shirt’s United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD).

Mr Abhisit and Mr Suthep, accompanied by their lawyer Bundith Siriphan, met with Winai Damrongmongkolkul, director-general of the Office of the Attorney General (OAG)'s Department of Special Litigation, at the OAG.

They were instructed to appear before the DSL on August 26 to hear the charges.

Mr Abhisit said he and Mr Suthep denied all charges and would petition against the DSI whom, they said, were not authorised to investigate the case which involved state officials.

He said they would submit their complaints to the National Counter Corruption Commission, adding that he has filed lawsuits against four DSI investigation members including director general Tarit Pengdith for abuse of power and persecution.

The court set early next month for the first trial, he said.

DSL director general Winai said the DSI charges against Mr Abhisit and Mr Suthep were consequences of the deaths of Phan Kamkong, 43, and Kunakorn Srisuwan, 14, and attempted murder of Samorn Maithong, a van driver, in the 2010 political violence.

He admitted that he felt stressed but not pressured in having to handle the case.

It should take at least two months to thoroughly study the documents, he said, adding that he would lead a five-member team to take charge of the case. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2013-06-27

[webfact]

Prosecutors to assess DSI cases
Kesinee Taengkhiao,
Prapasri Osathanon
The Nation


Supporters give flowers to former deputy PM Suthep Thaugsuban after prosecutors received a file from the Department of Special Investigation yesterday on the deaths during the 2010 riots.

BANGKOK: -- Public prosecutors have set August 26 to announce a decision on whether former prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and his former deputy Suthep Thaug-suban - in the now opposition-leading Democrat Party - will be indicted for murder over the death of protesters during the 2010 riots.

Winai Damrongmongkolkul, chief public prosecutor at the Office of Special Litigation, said this after receiving a file on the case yesterday. Winai said he felt no political pressure to make a decision in the case but admitted it was difficult.

Department of Special Investigation deputy chief Pol Lt-Colonel Wannapong Kotcharak, chief investigator of cases that involve deaths of people and security officials in the 2010 riots, handed over nine boxes with 11,242 documents as evidence and files to prosecutors.

Police decided to file murder and attempted murder charges against Abhisit and Suthep for ordering security officials to conduct crowd control operations on Ratchadamnern Rd and at Ratchaprasong intersection. This allegedly led to the death of taxi driver Pan Kamkong, 43, Kunakorn Srisuwan, 14, and injured van driver Samorn Maithonng.

Abhisit said he and Suthep had petitioned prosecutors to seek justice, and explained circumstances surrounding the riots and legal aspects. He said there were discrepancies in the case and the DSI did not have authority to conduct the probe because the suspects were state officials. The DSI must let the National Anti-Corruption Com-mission take over the case.

Abhisit said he had filed a suit against DSI chief Tarit Pengdith and three investigators accusing them of malfeasance for trumping up charges against him. The Criminal Court has set the first hearing for early next month.


-- The Nation 2013-06-27

[rixalex]

Tarit stated that there was ample evidence that they had ordered the killings of Red Shirt pro-democracy demonstrators in 2010.

I believe he also claimed there was ample evidence that Thaksin was behind the red shirt demonstrations but when the government changed so did he. He claimed he and the DSI were pressured by the then government into making the claims. I wonder what's happening now.

Indeed.

And Tarit's statement also raises other questions about him. He was working alongside Abhisit and Suthep when all this "murdering" was happening, for which he says there is ample evidence, yet he carried on working with these people throughout it all. I appreciate with a family to feed, voluntarily leaving a job can be a hard decision to make, but if your work colleagues murdering people isn't good enough reason for you to make a stand on principle and quit the job, what exactly is?

[Chrisswe]

We all know who protect them !!

[Tatsujin]

Tarit stated that there was ample evidence that they had ordered the killings of Red Shirt pro-democracy demonstrators in 2010.

I believe he also claimed there was ample evidence that Thaksin was behind the red shirt demonstrations but when the government changed so did he. He claimed he and the DSI were pressured by the then government into making the claims. I wonder what's happening now.

Indeed.

And Tarit's statement also raises other questions about him. He was working alongside Abhisit and Suthep when all this "murdering" was happening, for which he says there is ample evidence, yet he carried on working with these people throughout it all. I appreciate with a family to feed, voluntarily leaving a job can be a hard decision to make, but if your work colleagues murdering people isn't good enough reason for you to make a stand on principle and quit the job, what exactly is?

Principles? Here, in Thailand? When did that happen?

[Thait Spot]

If the government is responsible for the army's actions.......

and Thaksin was the "legal" PM in 2006......

Then he should be arrested and charged with a coup d'etat

Simple really

[gemini81]

On one hand a man who faces the news. 'I'm not worried." The opposition a cowardly dog who pays bums to die in exchange for him.

You'd think the public would wake up and notice such simple & obvious things. Might take a few more generations here.

[whybother]

We all know who protect them !!

I don't. Who "protect them"?

You must be really struggling to find things to post these days given the mess the current government is making.

[whybother]

Usual reactionary trick of pinning a particular flag up which in the Thai context tends to inhibit further discussion.That's the whole point I suppose.This kind of craven lick spittle for the military cannot comprehend that Thai patriots do not have to be proto fascists crawling on the floor in the face of feudalists and generals.Acharn Giles is more of a Thai patriot than many of the old order.(He can also be a slightly silly leftist but that is another story).

I read Point 1 which concluded that Thaksin had carried out the coup to know this was just more ahistorical claptrap, and so it proved to be.

Incidentally the basic reason why Abhisit and Suthep will never go to jail is that the Thai justice system will never be allowed to make such an order.They know that perfectly well which is why Abhisit's "bring it on" claim rings hollow.I agree there's a fair argument they should not be charged with this offence, but that's another issue.

"there's a fair argument they should not be charged with this offence", but we'll ignore that and say that if they get off it was because of the evil amart.

[jayboy]

Usual reactionary trick of pinning a particular flag up which in the Thai context tends to inhibit further discussion.That's the whole point I suppose.This kind of craven lick spittle for the military cannot comprehend that Thai patriots do not have to be proto fascists crawling on the floor in the face of feudalists and generals.Acharn Giles is more of a Thai patriot than many of the old order.(He can also be a slightly silly leftist but that is another story).

I read Point 1 which concluded that Thaksin had carried out the coup to know this was just more ahistorical claptrap, and so it proved to be.

Incidentally the basic reason why Abhisit and Suthep will never go to jail is that the Thai justice system will never be allowed to make such an order.They know that perfectly well which is why Abhisit's "bring it on" claim rings hollow.I agree there's a fair argument they should not be charged with this offence, but that's another issue.

"there's a fair argument they should not be charged with this offence", but we'll ignore that and say that if they get off it was because of the evil amart.

That's unfair.I am sceptical that Abhisit and Suthep should be charged with criminal offences in respect of 2010, not least because this has the fingerprints of partisan politics all over it.I do believe however they need to provide detailed explanations, ideally in a credible public enquiry (along with all others involved, yes including Thaksin).But, going back to the current investigation, the risk of jail is zero.That's why Abhisit's bravado on this issue is all wind.There's no bravery when there's no risk.You can laugh it off with "evil amart" cracks if you like but the reality is that jailtime for these two isn't going to happen.

[Baerboxer]

We all know who protect them !!

Please enlighten us?

[Pi Sek]

Ji Ungpakorn is not really a Thai anymore though is he? Some put great stock in what he says - I'm afraid I don't and, besides that, I think he's a traitor to his country and especially his King (just pinning my colours to the mask in the interests of transparency). However, let's have a quick look at what he says (I've put numbers on them so that people can flame me easier):

1. "It was the army that overthrew the democratically elected government of Taksin Shinawat in 2006."

Yes, the army overthrew the government at the time. But it had not been 'democratically elected' - it had been dissolved. It was Thaksin who decided to stay on undemocratically, which is paramount to a coup. That's why many, including me, believe that the coup was necessary.

2. "Abhisit and Sutep were also centrally involved with Sutep having the formal position of “director”. However, it would have been impossible for these two civilian politicians to have had any real power over the military and to have ordered the military operations against the Red Shirts which resulted in nearly 90 deaths. The orders must have come from Prayut and Anupong and been approved by Abhisit and Sutep."

Given noone knows the actual orders given, just the internationally-accepted guidelines that the CRES laboured to emphasise they were following, it's pretty hard to agree with him here. We also know that Suthep was removed as 'director' and replaced with Gen. Anupong Paojinda following the 10 April carnage.

3. "All four are guilty of mass-murder."

See #2. I do not agree with him at all, for a number of reasons (not least of which is, if the orders were to kill on sight, we would have seen thousands killed). Besides, that's what trials are for (well, maybe not in the case of the military). However, changing his tune would probably attract a lot of criticism from the Red Shirt camp with whom he draws most of his support.

4. "In return for tolerating the election of the Pua Thai Government in 2011, the military will be absolved of any wrong-doing."

I highly doubt the military had the option of 'tolerating' or 'not tolerating' the election result. They just don't want to make waves with a power in Thailand that rivals or even surpasses the civilian government, especially when they have shown that power by kicking Thaksin out in the past (not to mention all the other coups).

5. "In the future Taksin will also be allowed to return to Thailand."

He is already. If the suggestion is that he will be able to return with legal impunity... maybe, it depends on how much civil strife it would cause.

6. "The lèse majesté law, which has been used against progressive Red Shirts, will also not be changed or abolished."

Correct, this has been made clear by Peua Thai since their election.

7. "In early 2012 Taksin made a speech in Cambodia where he said that he had no quarrel with the military and that his only opponents were the Democrat Party."

Thaksin has made a few speeches recently where the content of the speech is directly contradicted by the immediate actions of his Peua Thai underlings.

8a. "(The case against Abhisit and Sutep) is a “displacement activity” to create an image of a government which seeks to bring the killers of the Red Shirts to justice."

Well, obviously, as well as denigrating (one might say 'defaming') their political opponents.

8b. "...Abhisit and Sutep will never spend the rest of their lives in jail. If they did, it would create a precedent to bring Taksin to court for ordering the killings in the War on Drugs and at Tak Bai in the South."

Yes, there is that, but the prime reason that Abhisit and Suthep won't be going to jail is that there is no evidence that they ordered the unprovoked killing of civilians. See #2 and #3.

8c. "Secondly, having a case hanging over the heads of Abhisit and Sutep is a good bargaining counter in negotiations to bring Taksin back and amend the Constitution in favour of Pua Thai politicians."

Peua Thai may have thought they had a bargaining chip, but they don't... because the Democrat side are refusing to negotiate with regards to amnesty for anyone other than non-criminal protesters.

9. "There are no plans by the Pua Thai Party to amend the Constitution or re-draft a Constitution to bring about real democracy."

It has been made clear that aim of the constitution amendment/re-draft is to 'bring about real democracy' by invalidating the injustice of the coup, aka whitewashing Thaksin.

10. "The proposals of the Nitirat group of progressive law academics do not have Pua Thai support."

Correct. Not much to add to this, except it seems that the proposals of the Nitirat group do not have the support of anyone in politics.

11. "Importantly this bargaining counter will not upset the military as they and Pua Thai feel that Abhisit and Sutep can be used and abused."

See #4. The military can throw whatever tantrums they like, or not, at the end of the day.

Usual reactionary trick of pinning a particular flag up which in the Thai context tends to inhibit further discussion.That's the whole point I suppose.This kind of craven lick spittle for the military cannot comprehend that Thai patriots do not have to be proto fascists crawling on the floor in the face of feudalists and generals.Acharn Giles is more of a Thai patriot than many of the old order.(He can also be a slightly silly leftist but that is another story).

I read Point 1 which concluded that Thaksin had carried out the coup to know this was just more ahistorical claptrap, and so it proved to be.

Incidentally the basic reason why Abhisit and Suthep will never go to jail is that the Thai justice system will never be allowed to make such an order.They know that perfectly well which is why Abhisit's "bring it on" claim rings hollow.I agree there's a fair argument they should not be charged with this offence, but that's another issue.

Wow! I expected to get flamed, but it surprises me that it was you that came back with the dismissive acerbity shown in your first paragraph. I thought you went to the 2nd best uni in England?

You have your opinion on "Giles", as do I. They're tantamount opposites... if you have read his English-language books, you will see that there is no way he cannot be deemed as a traitor to HM The King. Traitor to the country? Up for interpretation, you know where I stand and I know where you stand.

I actually agree with amendment to the lese majeste Laws (which Ji was charged with in the first place), or at least their review... but he decided to run from the trial because he didn't think it would be fair (since you bring up "usual reactionary tricks"...).

Anyway, thanks for the answer on point 1 - that it's BS It's a matter of opinion I suppose, my opinion is that Thaksin wasn't the legal, democratic or constitutional PM when he was ousted. This has been done to death already, those that agree agree and those who don't like to cite the controversy of the EC's decision mid-2006 and Abhisit's 'undemocratic' decision to boycott the April 2006 election on grounds that the election was not held democratically.

And thanks for explaining your stance on why Abhisit & Suthep won't be doing any jail time... although I thought whybother's comment summarised your position quite well! We can see that I consider the two to have a fairly strong legal stance in these charges, you dismiss that strong legal stance as irrelevant because they won't be charged because "the Thai Justice system will never be allowed".

And I, like you, think there needs to be a public inquiry as to why what happened happened. There was - Abhisit set it up, it came up with a detailed report fairly damning to both sides, and the report was basically ridiculed, suppressed and rejected by everyone involved (except the public, the media and the Democrats - none of whom were in any position to do anything about it!). Prior to that it was billed as the unbiased report everyone was waiting for, but it seems it didn't provide enough of a whitewash for everyone for the army, the Red Shirts and the pro-Thaksin side of the political sphere.

[khunken]

I can't claim to be 'a lickspittle for the military' or a 'proto fascist' but applaud Pi Sek for his opinion on Ji Ungaporn's writings.

I know Ji (not very well though) and he is an honourable man. But not long ago some of the red shirt fascist supporters were claiming that Abhisit is not Thai because of his birthplace & dual nationality. Pi Sek is using the same argument about Ji and his running away from Lese Majeste charges to reside in the UK as well as his dislike (verging on hatred) for the monarchy here does have some justification.

Coming from a republic, I don't normally have a lot of regard for monarchies as such but living in Thailand has made me aware of the enormous respect & love that Thais have for their King. I respect that.

I don't respect arrogance which is why I'm not directly responding to the 'Proto Fascist' (the most idiotic term I've seen on Thaivisa) accuser.

Of course there's more of the usual belittling of Abhisit in case he might just be braver, cleaner & far less of an arrogant prick than DL in Dubai. He is right to have confidence in the law which doesn't need any 'allowed to be' type of interference, typical of conspiracy theorists.

[jayboy]

I can't claim to be 'a lickspittle for the military' or a 'proto fascist' but applaud Pi Sek for his opinion on Ji Ungaporn's writings.

I know Ji (not very well though) and he is an honourable man. But not long ago some of the red shirt fascist supporters were claiming that Abhisit is not Thai because of his birthplace & dual nationality. Pi Sek is using the same argument about Ji and his running away from Lese Majeste charges to reside in the UK as well as his dislike (verging on hatred) for the monarchy here does have some justification.

Coming from a republic, I don't normally have a lot of regard for monarchies as such but living in Thailand has made me aware of the enormous respect & love that Thais have for their King. I respect that.

I don't respect arrogance which is why I'm not directly responding to the 'Proto Fascist' (the most idiotic term I've seen on Thaivisa) accuser.

Of course there's more of the usual belittling of Abhisit in case he might just be braver, cleaner & far less of an arrogant prick than DL in Dubai. He is right to have confidence in the law which doesn't need any 'allowed to be' type of interference, typical of conspiracy theorists.

Anybody's position is set out in many posts.It is is probably for others to assess how craven one is to reactionary forces in Thailand.

The redshirts who branded Abhisit as non Thai are as stupidly wrongheaded as those that label Acharn Giles as non Thai.Odd that the person you defend didn't mention the Abhisit case.

You may not like the term proto fascist or even understand what it means, but it's a perfectly fair label.