Eight soldiers killed in Thai south: army

[simple1]

No justice...no peace! Remember Tak Bai...Kru Se Mosque massacre...Soba Yoi...and Somchai Najephalit.

No one in Thai government or armed services has ever been called to account or punished so any of these gross violations of human rights.

Personally I believe that there has been so much killing by all parties in the deep South that peace is probably years away. Add to this mix the ongoing extrajudicial killings and torture by various Thai government funded organisations. Out of an estimated 1.7 million Thai Muslims in the deep South, the Thai government estimates there are currently 100,000 members of the insurgent groups, both active and sympathisers.

Different players within the Thai government, military, police and the insurgency groups have competing agendas. Some publically stating they want to enter negotiations, some do not wish to concede anything. Then there are the various criminal gangs making money from the whole affair, plus corrupt Thai & Malaysian officials. How long before the real players say they have had enough and it's time to bring the conflict to an end is currently an unknown. Hopefully I am proved wrong, but based upon other insurgency conflicts in Asia and around the world could be 10 - 20 years with thousands more dead and injured.

EDIT: I agree with hellodolly regards supporting the villagers. Similar tactics were successfully used by the US in the Sunni triangle in Gulf War 11 (hearts and minds) that broke the back of the Islamic extremists. A number of reports state that the general Thai Muslim population are sick and tired of the killings and just want justice, a peaceful life and equal opportunity.

The US did not "break the back of the Islamic extremists" in the Sunni triangle. They paid them off to stop fighting which the Sunni's were happy to do as their real fight was with the Shia majority. The fight resumed as soon as the US withdrew most of their forces as evidenced by the ongoing wave of bombings & killings in Iraq.

As for, "getting tough". The insurgence in the south was a minor annoyance (very small causalities) until Taksin instigated a "get tough policy" of extrajudicial killings (like his war on drugs which resulted in many innocent people being killed in Thailand) & an Army crackdown. Things really heated up after the Tak Bai incident.

The 3 southern provinces were once part of an independent Malay state which the British colonial power in the Malayan peninsular annexed & then ceded to the Thai’s in exchange for the Thai’s relinquishing any claims to Penang.

Easy to understand why Muslim Malays are disgruntled at being traded off to the Thai Buddhist state. With the radicalisation of Muslims sweeping the world & the abundance of Muslims who have acquired military experience in the insurgency universities of Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen etc; I can’t see them ever excepting the status quo.

off topic, but...The US did not pay off the Sunni Al Qaeda extremeists in the Sunni triangle. US forces worked with and armed the local Sunni village/tribal leaders who were sick of the excess of killing by the extremists who were aiming to provoke a civil war in order to further destablise Iraq. At the time it was a successful collaboration.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/26/AR2007082601143.html

EDIT: I hope the mods allow this post as the example could be a component of the strategy/tactics used by Thai security forces. As far as I know only Buddhist villages are provided arms for self defence, not Muslim villagers who are often murdered by the insurgents if they are identified as working with Thai security agencies

Edited June 30, 2013 by simple1

[BigC]

I know this is not the Thai way of doing things, but isn't it about time the army started to show some force?

THe so called peace negotiations are leading nowhere and with the daily killings of innocent people escalating, I think it is time to use the fist! Enough is enough!

Oh my god one born every minute

Why do u think the army are in the Deep South in the first place they are not there playing cops and robbers

Thy have been fighting the rebels for over 9 years

Please don't tell me that you are one o these people that think that once you sen the army on they fix everything over night

The peace talks are taking place the same time as the fighting

Maybe if you go on patrol with the army through the dense jungle for a few days I shall find that looking for these rebels is like looking for a needle in a haystack

With the thai blending in with their own race does not help plus the hole place is boobie trapped

I have lost about 5 thai friends in his fighting over the years

[soicee]

No justice...no peace! Remember Tak Bai...Kru Se Mosque massacre...Soba Yoi...and Somchai Najephalit.

No one in Thai government or armed services has ever been called to account or punished so any of these gross violations of human rights.

Personally I believe that there has been so much killing by all parties in the deep South that peace is probably years away. Add to this mix the ongoing extrajudicial killings and torture by various Thai government funded organisations. Out of an estimated 1.7 million Thai Muslims in the deep South, the Thai government estimates there are currently 100,000 members of the insurgent groups, both active and sympathisers.

Different players within the Thai government, military, police and the insurgency groups have competing agendas. Some publically stating they want to enter negotiations, some do not wish to concede anything. Then there are the various criminal gangs making money from the whole affair, plus corrupt Thai & Malaysian officials. How long before the real players say they have had enough and it's time to bring the conflict to an end is currently an unknown. Hopefully I am proved wrong, but based upon other insurgency conflicts in Asia and around the world could be 10 - 20 years with thousands more dead and injured.

EDIT: I agree with hellodolly regards supporting the villagers. Similar tactics were successfully used by the US in the Sunni triangle in Gulf War 11 (hearts and minds) that broke the back of the Islamic extremists. A number of reports state that the general Thai Muslim population are sick and tired of the killings and just want justice, a peaceful life and equal opportunity.

The US did not "break the back of the Islamic extremists" in the Sunni triangle. They paid them off to stop fighting which the Sunni's were happy to do as their real fight was with the Shia majority. The fight resumed as soon as the US withdrew most of their forces as evidenced by the ongoing wave of bombings & killings in Iraq.

As for, "getting tough". The insurgence in the south was a minor annoyance (very small causalities) until Taksin instigated a "get tough policy" of extrajudicial killings (like his war on drugs which resulted in many innocent people being killed in Thailand) & an Army crackdown. Things really heated up after the Tak Bai incident.

The 3 southern provinces were once part of an independent Malay state which the British colonial power in the Malayan peninsular annexed & then ceded to the Thai’s in exchange for the Thai’s relinquishing any claims to Penang.

Easy to understand why Muslim Malays are disgruntled at being traded off to the Thai Buddhist state. With the radicalisation of Muslims sweeping the world & the abundance of Muslims who have acquired military experience in the insurgency universities of Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen etc; I can’t see them ever excepting the status quo.

off topic, but...The US did not pay off the Sunni Al Qaeda extremeists in the Sunni triangle. US forces worked with and armed the local Sunni village/tribal leaders who were sick of the excess of killing by the extremists who were aiming to provoke a civil war in order to further destablise Iraq. At the time it was a successful collaboration.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/26/AR2007082601143.html

EDIT: I hope the mods allow this post as the example could be a component of the strategy/tactics used by Thai security forces. As far as I know only Buddhist villages are provided arms for self defence, not Muslim villagers who are often murdered by the insurgents if they are identified as working with Thai security agencies

Don't U people realise that as I have stated above, these 'provinces' are ethically Malay & not Thai (just do a Google search). The Thais have never controlled these provinces until the British traded this area to the Thais. The vast majority of the population in these provinces is Malay & their religion is Islam!

It is also a matter of public record that the US did pay off the Sunnis in Iraq. BTW Al-Queda is a Sunni organisation which never existed in Iraq until after the US invasion!

[Sing_Sling]

Don't U people realise that as I have stated above, these 'provinces' are ethically Malay & not Thai (just do a Google search). The Thais have never controlled these provinces until the British traded this area to the Thais. The vast majority of the population in these provinces is Malay & their religion is Islam!

It is also a matter of public record that the US did pay off the Sunnis in Iraq. BTW Al-Queda is a Sunni organisation which never existed in Iraq until after the US invasion!

You are arguing with whom? I think you're agreeing with many posters, you just don't see it

[simple1]

@soicee: The relevance to the topic is possible similar tactics by Thai security forces. The US paid the Sunni "Sons of Iraq" for fighting Al Qaeda/Islamic extremist operatives, not to cease attacks against coalition forces. If the mods permit, should you have contrary info please provide the link/s.

[BigC]

Don't U people realise that as I have stated above, these 'provinces' are ethically Malay & not Thai (just do a Google search). The Thais have never controlled these provinces until the British traded this area to the Thais. The vast majority of the population in these provinces is Malay & their religion is Islam!

It is also a matter of public record that the US did pay off the Sunnis in Iraq. BTW Al-Queda is a Sunni organisation which never existed in Iraq until after the US invasion!

You are arguing with whom? I think you're agreeing with many posters, you just don't see it

This land is governmed by Thailand. Thailand does not force these people to stop their religion only to stop attacked Thai Citizerns. Including Muslims who co-operate with the Thai government who are probably actually trying to save their own people from being in the middle of these terrorist groups and the Thai Buddest government. not all the Muslims are terrorists but how it works. they bomb the public the army fight backk maybe an inocent court in the cross fire then the numbers start to get higher of people joining these Islam extreme groups.

I would not mind but the Thais have not made Isam illegal. So why do they care so much about who they are governmed by. You dont see Christens try to make a Christian state or Catholics.

[Sing_Sling]

Don't U people realise that as I have stated above, these 'provinces' are ethically Malay & not Thai (just do a Google search). The Thais have never controlled these provinces until the British traded this area to the Thais. The vast majority of the population in these provinces is Malay & their religion is Islam!

It is also a matter of public record that the US did pay off the Sunnis in Iraq. BTW Al-Queda is a Sunni organisation which never existed in Iraq until after the US invasion!

You are arguing with whom? I think you're agreeing with many posters, you just don't see it

This land is governmed by Thailand. Thailand does not force these people to stop their religion only to stop attacked Thai Citizerns. Including Muslims who co-operate with the Thai government who are probably actually trying to save their own people from being in the middle of these terrorist groups and the Thai Buddest government. not all the Muslims are terrorists but how it works. they bomb the public the army fight backk maybe an inocent court in the cross fire then the numbers start to get higher of people joining these Islam extreme groups.

I would not mind but the Thais have not made Isam illegal. So why do they care so much about who they are governmed by. You dont see Christens try to make a Christian state or Catholics.

Rather a simplistic view of the conflict . . . I guess it's easier to think this way than to understand why the conflict is there.

Ok, the land is governed by Thailand - and historically it is NOT a part of Thailand - just look at that for a start.

Why do they care so much about who governs them? Interesting thought . . . how about you are governed by the Burmese or the Russians or the Chinese or the Ugandans or the Iraqis . . . you wouldn't object to that, surely

[BigC]

Don't U people realise that as I have stated above, these 'provinces' are ethically Malay & not Thai (just do a Google search). The Thais have never controlled these provinces until the British traded this area to the Thais. The vast majority of the population in these provinces is Malay & their religion is Islam!

It is also a matter of public record that the US did pay off the Sunnis in Iraq. BTW Al-Queda is a Sunni organisation which never existed in Iraq until after the US invasion!

You are arguing with whom? I think you're agreeing with many posters, you just don't see it

This land is governmed by Thailand. Thailand does not force these people to stop their religion only to stop attacked Thai Citizerns. Including Muslims who co-operate with the Thai government who are probably actually trying to save their own people from being in the middle of these terrorist groups and the Thai Buddest government. not all the Muslims are terrorists but how it works. they bomb the public the army fight backk maybe an inocent court in the cross fire then the numbers start to get higher of people joining these Islam extreme groups.

I would not mind but the Thais have not made Isam illegal. So why do they care so much about who they are governmed by. You dont see Christens try to make a Christian state or Catholics.

Rather a simplistic view of the conflict . . . I guess it's easier to think this way than to understand why the conflict is there.

Ok, the land is governed by Thailand - and historically it is NOT a part of Thailand - just look at that for a start.

Why do they care so much about who governs them? Interesting thought . . . how about you are governed by the Burmese or the Russians or the Chinese or the Ugandans or the Iraqis . . . you wouldn't object to that, surely

sometimes the answer are in simplist form. When trying to over complicate things you can find an acuse for anything. The problem with Thai histtory is that in the past to stop countries attacking they gave land away which is the problem now. As the Muslims have seen what happened to Camodia and loas they are hoping that if they give Thailand enough headaches then they shall give them their own country. Which is why from now they should not give into terrosime no matter what to protect the future as the same with Northern Ireland.

[simple1]

Better not compare to Northern Ireland as ceasation of violence came about due to a power sharing agreement - lots of TV members would get their knickers in a twist if that were to be proposed. You know what I mean, members who post; don't negotiate, kill them all.

Edited July 4, 2013 by simple1

[Sing_Sling]

This land is governmed by Thailand. Thailand does not force these people to stop their religion only to stop attacked Thai Citizerns. Including Muslims who co-operate with the Thai government who are probably actually trying to save their own people from being in the middle of these terrorist groups and the Thai Buddest government. not all the Muslims are terrorists but how it works. they bomb the public the army fight backk maybe an inocent court in the cross fire then the numbers start to get higher of people joining these Islam extreme groups.

I would not mind but the Thais have not made Isam illegal. So why do they care so much about who they are governmed by. You dont see Christens try to make a Christian state or Catholics.

Rather a simplistic view of the conflict . . . I guess it's easier to think this way than to understand why the conflict is there.

Ok, the land is governed by Thailand - and historically it is NOT a part of Thailand - just look at that for a start.

Why do they care so much about who governs them? Interesting thought . . . how about you are governed by the Burmese or the Russians or the Chinese or the Ugandans or the Iraqis . . . you wouldn't object to that, surely

sometimes the answer are in simplist form. When trying to over complicate things you can find an acuse for anything. The problem with Thai histtory is that in the past to stop countries attacking they gave land away which is the problem now. As the Muslims have seen what happened to Camodia and loas they are hoping that if they give Thailand enough headaches then they shall give them their own country. Which is why from now they should not give into terrosime no matter what to protect the future as the same with Northern Ireland.

Sometimes . . . but not this time . . . and what you call an excuse is also called reason by those who think a bit deeper and look at history . . .

Your example of Thai history is absolutely illogical - these provinces have only been part of Thailand for a very short time, in historical terms - and no-one is asking for Bangkok to give them up . . . and I doubt the insurgents were encouraged by Laos and Cambo (???) as they have their own very legitimate grievances

Your last sentence . . . would you like to edit that?

Better not compare to Northern Ireland as ceasation of violence came about due to a power sharing agreement - lots of TV members would get their knickers in a twist if that were to be proposed. You know what I mean, members who post; don't negotiate, kill them all.

Facts, facts, facts. Why ruin a good rant with facts?!

[BigC]

This land is governmed by Thailand. Thailand does not force these people to stop their religion only to stop attacked Thai Citizerns. Including Muslims who co-operate with the Thai government who are probably actually trying to save their own people from being in the middle of these terrorist groups and the Thai Buddest government. not all the Muslims are terrorists but how it works. they bomb the public the army fight backk maybe an inocent court in the cross fire then the numbers start to get higher of people joining these Islam extreme groups.

I would not mind but the Thais have not made Isam illegal. So why do they care so much about who they are governmed by. You dont see Christens try to make a Christian state or Catholics.

Rather a simplistic view of the conflict . . . I guess it's easier to think this way than to understand why the conflict is there.

Ok, the land is governed by Thailand - and historically it is NOT a part of Thailand - just look at that for a start.

Why do they care so much about who governs them? Interesting thought . . . how about you are governed by the Burmese or the Russians or the Chinese or the Ugandans or the Iraqis . . . you wouldn't object to that, surely

sometimes the answer are in simplist form. When trying to over complicate things you can find an acuse for anything. The problem with Thai histtory is that in the past to stop countries attacking they gave land away which is the problem now. As the Muslims have seen what happened to Camodia and loas they are hoping that if they give Thailand enough headaches then they shall give them their own country. Which is why from now they should not give into terrosime no matter what to protect the future as the same with Northern Ireland.

Sometimes . . . but not this time . . . and what you call an excuse is also called reason by those who think a bit deeper and look at history . . .

Your example of Thai history is absolutely illogical - these provinces have only been part of Thailand for a very short time, in historical terms - and no-one is asking for Bangkok to give them up . . . and I doubt the insurgents were encouraged by Laos and Cambo (???) as they have their own very legitimate grievances

Your last sentence . . . would you like to edit that?

Better not compare to Northern Ireland as ceasation of violence came about due to a power sharing agreement - lots of TV members would get their knickers in a twist if that were to be proposed. You know what I mean, members who post; don't negotiate, kill them all.

Facts, facts, facts. Why ruin a good rant with facts?!

Facts are facts terrosime is terrosime

Doesn't matter what the coarse is

They have no reason to attach Thailand they do have a reason to be treated like criminals and executed

I think you must be one of these people because your argument seems to defined the acts of random killings and bombings

Plus how do you know that they are not influenced by giving away Cambodia and loas as they are so much into their history as you are they must me looking at this strategy as a possibility or what is the point of the attacks

They don't even call themselves thai they call themselves Islam

If that is the case then they should be stripped of their Thai citizenship and thrown in jail with the rest of the forangs Burmese Cambodians extra

[simple1]

@BigC: take a look at the analysis of the conflict in the deep South by a Thai colonel attending the Centre for Defence and Strategic Studies at the Australian Defence College. Let us know your thoughts after reading.

http://www.defence.gov.au/adc/docs/Publications2012/SheddenPapers12_120306_ConflictinThailand_Nurakkate.pdf

[Sing_Sling]

Facts are facts terrosime is terrosime

Doesn't matter what the coarse is

They have no reason to attach Thailand they do have a reason to be treated like criminals and executed

I think you must be one of these people because your argument seems to defined the acts of random killings and bombings

Plus how do you know that they are not influenced by giving away Cambodia and loas as they are so much into their history as you are they must me looking at this strategy as a possibility or what is the point of the attacks

They don't even call themselves thai they call themselves Islam

If that is the case then they should be stripped of their Thai citizenship and thrown in jail with the rest of the forangs Burmese Cambodians extra

Facts are facts - you should try some . . . and does state terrorism count?

Do you support the murder of close to 100 people in Tak Bai or do you think it was justified? An answer would be nice, thanks.

Executed? Lovely.

Yes, I admit I am one of these people - you got me there, because only one of these people (my people, it seems) can see there is some justification in their struggle

They don't need to look to Cambo nor Laos - they have a perfectly legitimate right to fight for their freedom (how they do it isn't the right way at times, of course)

They actually don't call themselves 'Islam', they call themselves 'Thai' . . . you're confusing religion with nationality - but keep making up stories to suit your warped agenda

Stripped of their Thai citizenship? Classic

[Sing_Sling]

@BigC: take a look at the analysis of the conflict in the deep South by a Thai colonel attending the Centre for Defence and Strategic Studies at the Australian Defence College. Let us know your thoughts after reading.

http://www.defence.gov.au/adc/docs/Publications2012/SheddenPapers12_120306_ConflictinThailand_Nurakkate.pdf

He won't read it

[squarethecircle]

Facts are facts terrosime is terrosime

They don't even call themselves thai they call themselves Islam

If that is the case then they should be stripped of their Thai citizenship and thrown in jail with the rest of the forangs Burmese Cambodians extra

Facts are facts - you should try some . . . and does state terrorism count?

Do you support the murder of close to 100 people in Tak Bai or do you think it was justified? An answer would be nice, thanks.

They actually don't call themselves 'Islam', they call themselves 'Thai' . . . you're confusing religion with nationality - but keep making up stories to suit your warped agenda

The whole "Tak Bai" thing should be put to rest, they weren't exactly innocent farmers...if, say, soldiers in the US army helped plan an inside attack on an army base to steal weapons to be used in attacks against the State, and thousands of people showed up demanding their release, they would be put down with force, just like the Thai Army did. At most there was negligence/excessive force in stacking them up in trucks.

But blowing up random innocent soldiers like this is a completely backwards way to respond to supposed "injustice". The way to do it would be to get educated (rather than memorizing collections of pre-industrial belief systems) and go from there - just like the non-Muslim minority is doing (with some success, despite rigged elections) in Malaysia.

I don't see why the creeps making these attacks get so much sympathy on a page reporting one of their sickening "successes". Seems like the soldiers who got killed defending peace and freedom (exactly what they're doing) deserve more sympathy than that.

Edited July 5, 2013 by squarethecircle

[BigC]

@BigC: take a look at the analysis of the conflict in the deep South by a Thai colonel attending the Centre for Defence and Strategic Studies at the Australian Defence College. Let us know your thoughts after reading.

http://www.defence.gov.au/adc/docs/Publications2012/SheddenPapers12_120306_ConflictinThailand_Nurakkate.pdf

He won't read it

I won't read it. I can't be bothered to argue

The fact is that the army have been given orders to fight and most have are no volenteers

The army have one job and that is to protect their country it is a shame that these solider were killed on duty as these people were hand picked to fight and it is every farther and mothers nightmare in Thailand when their son gets chosen for national service and come back in a box

Maybe you should preach your Muslim sympathy to the victims families see of they agree with you

[BigC]

@BigC: take a look at the analysis of the conflict in the deep South by a Thai colonel attending the Centre for Defence and Strategic Studies at the Australian Defence College. Let us know your thoughts after reading.

http://www.defence.gov.au/adc/docs/Publications2012/SheddenPapers12_120306_ConflictinThailand_Nurakkate.pdf

He won't read it

I won't read it. I can't be bothered to argue

The fact is that the army have been given orders to fight and most have are no volenteers

The army have one job and that is to protect their country it is a shame that these solider were killed on duty as these people were hand picked to fight and it is every farther and mothers nightmare in Thailand when their son gets chosen for national service and come back in a box

Maybe you should preach your Muslim sympathy to the victims families see of they agree with you

[simple1]

@BigC: take a look at the analysis of the conflict in the deep South by a Thai colonel attending the Centre for Defence and Strategic Studies at the Australian Defence College. Let us know your thoughts after reading.

http://www.defence.gov.au/adc/docs/Publications2012/SheddenPapers12_120306_ConflictinThailand_Nurakkate.pdf

He won't read it

I won't read it. I can't be bothered to argue

The fact is that the army have been given orders to fight and most have are no volenteers

The army have one job and that is to protect their country it is a shame that these solider were killed on duty as these people were hand picked to fight and it is every farther and mothers nightmare in Thailand when their son gets chosen for national service and come back in a box

Maybe you should preach your Muslim sympathy to the victims families see of they agree with you

That's a shame as it is written by a Thai army officer & could have provided background that you currently may not aware of & is not in compliance with simplistic understanding posted by TV members. I fully agree that the deaths of serving soldiers is a tragedy, but they do seem do be let down by their superiors by being poorly equipped and led.

Not once have I ever expressed support for terrorism. However, I do not agree with extraducial killings by Thai death squads and the use of torture. If you read any analysis by senior counter insurgency officers, they all say it is counter productive and requires a multilayered approach; COIN. I prefer to take guidance from military professionals rather than TV keyboard warriors.

[Sing_Sling]

@BigC: take a look at the analysis of the conflict in the deep South by a Thai colonel attending the Centre for Defence and Strategic Studies at the Australian Defence College. Let us know your thoughts after reading.

http://www.defence.gov.au/adc/docs/Publications2012/SheddenPapers12_120306_ConflictinThailand_Nurakkate.pdf

He won't read it

I won't read it.

Picked it like a dirty nose . . . once ignorant, always ignorant