Monthly Expenditures Of Expats

[Doza]

QUOTE(Doza @ 2006-04-04 12:53:21)

I just can't escape the payments for house / car, retirement and future costs of family.

Are you in control of your materials or are your materials in control of you?

From your choice of verb, I'd say you're locked down. There is a way out to escape all your troubles and materials...Where there are several ways, but I can assure you winning the lottery is not one of them...

No, not locked down. Escape meaning 'get away from feeling this is important' and I'm happy that way. Like to have security and can afford it and will certianly thank myself for it in 30 years. Good job, good pay, good savings and good retirment is not all doom and gloom mate. You've obviously never been in a position to find out for yourself and that's fine. Don't see why you can't understand how working hard and having a good job and the benefits that come with that is actually quite a good thing??? What's up with that?

[Gary A]

Nice story except you forgot the part where you get old, sick and can no longer work. You have no Social Security benefits, no pension and no money to pay the hospital bill you are running up. You no longer have 400,000 baht in the bank for your visa. NOW WHAT? I would guess you will simply forget about your visa and die in your bed in your wife's shack. NO THANKS!

Edited April 4, 2006 by Gary A

[bendix]

For someone who professes such disinterest in material possesions and the finer things in life that money can buy, greenwanderer sure spends a lot of time posting about monetary issues on ThaiVisa.

[The Dude]

Those making anywhere from 50-250,000 baht/month

It seems to me there is a third group.... but I don't want to upset you more than you already are... so perhaps we'll skip them.

Guest House, LOL

[GuestHouse]

If it's a fat pension from some international company----that you had to slave 30-40 years neglecting a family emotionally, medicare, security packages, people who stay near you because they are dependent on your security and material providing....

Again, where do people get these ideas from?

I work for a multinational. Putting aside the benefits and addressing the 'Slaving Away Bit'.

My personal observation is that across the many jobs I have had, from farm labour, through bar work, construction work to my present job. The level of conditions, comfort go up as you go up the salary level, and the level of BS/Aggravation go down.

Perhaps people tell themselves they don’t want a career and promotion because they don’t want the ‘aggravation and deteriation in life style’ they assume goes with career and promotion. Alternatively perhaps they didn’t make the grade.

[greenwanderer108]

QUOTE(Doza @ 2006-04-04 12:53:21)

I just can't escape the payments for house / car, retirement and future costs of family.

Are you in control of your materials or are your materials in control of you?

From your choice of verb, I'd say you're locked down. There is a way out to escape all your troubles and materials...Where there are several ways, but I can assure you winning the lottery is not one of them...

No, not locked down. Escape meaning 'get away from feeling this is important' and I'm happy that way. Like to have security and can afford it and will certianly thank myself for it in 30 years. Good job, good pay, good savings and good retirment is not all doom and gloom mate. You've obviously never been in a position to find out for yourself and that's fine. Don't see why you can't understand how working hard and having a good job and the benefits that come with that is actually quite a good thing??? What's up with that?

Hey, if you do what you love and getting paid for it, than all power to you! Cause that's exactly what i do, what I love. I'm a writer and teacher. I'm on the bottom of the expat food chain but hey, it's the life I choose, I get by---sometimes in excess...Just cause I don't have some pension check to secure my old age doesn't mean I can't live to 100 and see my offspring's offspring.

And the best part, I'm still so frigin young, I got decades of youthful energies left before I'm an old geezer to regret my life, etc. etc. etc.

And when some of you well-off expats suggest 'Why don't you go back and get a job...get a pension...like me bla bla' I must say...

1) I have no desire to be rich and old like you. I'd prefer to have people who care for me and love me wiping my arse when I'm too old to do it rather than someone doing it for a paycheck

2) I have no desire to work for any multi-national corporation company with expat benefits, retirement plans, insurance or whatever...I'm sorry but fields in management, sales, executives, etc. have never been something I've dreamt about as a kid.

And I certainly don't think my son will be telling me in a few years 'When I grow up, I want to be a senior manager for a multi-million dollar corporation daddy! That way I can save up for retirement.'

Perhaps, I still have something that you might have lost while you were fulfilling your bland dream working 30 years for some corporation...: Imagination

I hope your kids have some of that left. I hope for their sake, they still have room in their minds for 'the present' and now....the arts, life, color, music, humanity....etc. etc.

Everyone to their own

[Gary A]

Quote;

1) I have no desire to be rich and old like you. I'd prefer to have people who care for me and love me wiping my arse when I'm too old to do it rather than someone doing it for a paycheck

Sorry young man but I have news for you. You're going to be old someday regardless whether you are rich or poor. I'm not wealthy by any means but I do live quite comfortably and have a nest egg to provide for someone to wipe my ass when I can no longer do it. LOL!

[Maigo6]

Green wanderer, in an ideal world you are right, but................

Just have an accident , what will you do, who will pay, someone with money who has taken the care to get money, or you ?

I have lived in Thailand for years, and believe me, you DO need money to be in Thailand for a long term plan, I know, I have been at both ends of the spectrum in the past.

I have never seen rich guys having to leave Thailand cos they were broke, but I have seen scores of dreamers like you go that way.

Good luck anyway.

[The Dude]

I find that once you move out of a closet, there is no going back. I did this in the states 1st. I went from a small bachelor Apt in Westwood (LA) to a larger room in Culver City to a 1br Apt in Stamford CT to a 2br condo Stamford to my own home (3br) Greenwich CT. By the time I was in the home, I had a lotta crap which sits in my home. I still have that home and moved to Thailand at 41. 1st year hotel room (20K) 2002. 2nd year 66 sq meter 1br (20K + 5k uts), 3rd year 100 sq 2 br condo (30k + 4k uts) now 166 sq 2 br apt (53K + 4k uts). There's no downsizing as stuff accumulates. Other budgetary items:

TRAVEL: visa runs etc run 10K month average (I like how greeney leaves travel out of his budget)

ALL FOOD + GROCERY: 20K

Entertainment: 15K

Local Transport: 3K (save cash on that one cause live where I hang)

MISC: 20K

TOTAL: 125K per month

very comfy on that and dont forget I have no local transport needs

[Doza]

Just cause I don't have some pension check to secure my old age doesn't mean I can't live to 100 and see my offspring's offspring.

Sure, but you might consider how you can afford it is all I'm saying. Especially without being a burden on family etc.

'Why don't you go back and get a job...get a pension...like me bla bla' I must say...

No-one is saying that. You already have a job, its just that you only seem to consider how to live now. Which is fine too, your choice, but don't seem so surprised that others don't think like that and don't think its a life spent in corporate drudgery to do it.

I have no desire to be rich and old like you. I'd prefer to have people who care for me and love me wiping my arse when I'm too old to do it rather than someone doing it for a paycheck

Who's rich?Certainly not me. I'm just trying to get by with some degree of comfort - i.e own my own home one day, send kids to decent school and uni, retire comfortably when I'm in my 60's etc etc.

I have no desire to work for any multi-national corporation company with expat benefits, retirement plans, insurance or whatever...I'm sorry but fields in management, sales, executives, etc. have never been something I've dreamt about as a kid.

Who says you have to do that?And what's all this about multi-nationals??? You can live well and save in many jobs, teaching, journalism included. It's not all about big corporate jobs in multi-nationals.

Perhaps, I still have something that you might have lost while you were fulfilling your bland dream working 30 years for some corporation

What? What's all this about corporations? You could be a plummer with your own business, working for the UN or CARE etc, maybe a pilot, own a store, maybe you work in advertising, teacher/principal, artist, sportsperson, write for TIME magazine, blah blah blah - you can't seem to get away from this stereotype of good job means corporate hel_l.

I'd prefer to have people who care for me and love me wiping my arse when I'm too old to do it rather than someone doing it for a paycheck

Cool...hope your family enjoys it. AND they get to do it for free! Lucky b*st*rds!

You need to get out more man. People actually do have interesting jobs, make decent money, AND save for retirement.

Edited April 4, 2006 by Doza

[greenwanderer108]

If it's a fat pension from some international company----that you had to slave 30-40 years neglecting a family emotionally, medicare, security packages, people who stay near you because they are dependent on your security and material providing....

Again, where do people get these ideas from?

I work for a multinational. Putting aside the benefits and addressing the 'Slaving Away Bit'.

My personal observation is that across the many jobs I have had, from farm labour, through bar work, construction work to my present job. The level of conditions, comfort go up as you go up the salary level, and the level of BS/Aggravation go down.

Perhaps people tell themselves they don’t want a career and promotion because they don’t want the ‘aggravation and deteriation in life style’ they assume goes with career and promotion. Alternatively perhaps they didn’t make the grade.

So in other words, with your prestige and experience behind you and a life focused on the career path,

you have a happy family life with many kids when not in school, spend time at home (as opposed to some daycare) and much land to run, play, sing, build clubhouses, sing, develop their sense of imagination, creativity, and adventure...

You always have time for your family when they need you...Not a slave to meetings, business trips, and seminars...You choose what you do and when you do it. And when you do it...you do so with passion because it's what you've always loved.

Your kids are clever, they are self-efficient, independent, and you are proud of them. They think for themselves...

???

If this describes your lifestyle or even close, then I can say I have more respect for you as a senior who has actually pursued a successful career without losing a sense of self, culture, family, and most importantly the present moment..

as is my assumption to what happens to those who worry about retirement all their life.

[bendix]

For someone who aspires to be a writer, you sure dont seem willing to accept that anyone else's life is ideal but your own.

You seem obsessed, young man.

Get out more.

Go and see the world.

Travel, even . ..

Oh no. . hang on . . you can't can you? You have no money.

[Neeranam]

A couple of nights ago, my wife and I did a budget for the month - first time for a few years that we've had to. This month is particularly tight. I asked her how much she needed for herself and to buy food for the 3 of us for the month. She said if we had to we could survive on 500 baht.

[greenwanderer108]

It's not exactly fair to put myself in same box as most expats on Thaivisa for comparison.

I have ethnic roots in Thailand. My heart and soul is in this country whether rich or poor. I am legit to stay here on one year visas without visa runs on Non-O status...thus, no need for montlhly trips to the border like The Dude might have to.

I choose to live a life in the land of my ancestors which is probably not the same reasons as most of you who choose to be in Thailand. The rest of the goods of Thailand are simply extra benefits.

With that said, I'd like to take the spotlight off of me and my flaws and turn it back to the original post in question. I was curious how those who fit into group two spend their money...as to not realize how comfortable it may be in that box.

It's hard to believe that it is possible for someone who's actually living here long term to be able to spend 20,000 baht a month on food. Sure it's possible...that breaks to roughly 6-700 baht a day...We're talking long term...365 days a year for who knows how many years some of you have averaged that.

If this is a figure for a family of five, than it would make more sense, but for one individual to use 20,000 baht a month on food is quite amazing That's like two all you can eat buffetts 365 days a year!

5-10,000 baht on transportation??? Wow, that averages 2-300 baht a day 30 days of the month! Come on, we're not talking about a vacation, we're talking about living here long term.

As far as entertainment, yea, I don't really need to hire someone for my sexual cravings as i'm still young and full of wit and charm...so that's how I can skip that expense...Don't like the idea of paying 400 percent for any atmosphere (clubs and bars) as I can create my own party atmosphere at my home when the need is there.

So englighten me further of how food and transport spending can be so high.

cheers

Edited April 4, 2006 by greenwanderer108

[The Dude]

I have friends and relatives who spend that 20k on 1 bottle of wine

[bendix]

Why can't someone choose to spend their money how they like?

I don't NEED to spend 20,000 a month on food. I do it because I can afford to and it suits my lifestyle. By the way, it's 660 a day, not 330. Perhaps you're not doing too well in life, because you're mathematically challenged.

660 is NOTHING to spend on food if - as me - you get pleasure both from eating out well 4-5 times a week (both thai and farang food) and also get pleasure from treating other people to food now and again, also. Money gives me choice. I can CHOOSE to go for a local meal on the streets and get change from 200 baht after feeding 3 people, or I can CHOOSE to drop 3000 on a slap up quality french dinner with all the wines and brandies to finish.

When I'm not eating out with friends, I will stay at home and cook for myself. Or alternatively, my GF will come over and we'll cook together.

What exactly is your gripe with that?

Transport? 300 a day? Well, again, the word is CHOICE. My lifestyle gives me the freedom to travel as I want to. That might be taxi. It might be MRT. It might be BTS. I usually get a taxi to work if it's really hot (don't want to arrive all sweaty), and go home on BTS or MRT.

Entertainment? Why do you assume that is girls? I havent paid for a girl (in your terms of reference) since I've been in Thailand. But I like to go out and enjoy myself in many different ways . . bars, golf trips, movies . whatever.

Again . . I do it because I can afford it and yet still save enough to retire in on my 42nd birthday in 18 months.

"Young, full of wit and charm". Well, one out of three aint bad, I suppose.

[Gary A]

Ah give him a break. I think I was near forty when it dawned on me that I wasn't bulletproof. It was a rude awakening when I determined that I better put my nose to the grindstone and provide for my future. I was fortunate to always have been able to find very well paying jobs. I guess going to school for about twenty years was maybe worth it. He is correct, working during the day, some traveling and going to school at night sure isn't an enjoyable way to live. The old saying "You reap what you sow" is unfortunately very correct. Some are born with a silver spoon in their mouth. Maybe he is in that category. I had to earn everything I managed to accumulate. When you get a little older you worry about having an accident or getting sick. That thought doesn't occur to a young man with a zeal for life and living for today. Tomorrow will NOT take care of itself.

[Doza]

Ha ha, you really have no idea do you. Go to Villa and tell me how cheese, wine, muesli, peanut butter, honey, vitamins, steak, good ham, apples and naval oranges etc etc etc cost. Then go to a pub, Italian, Indian, French, half decent Thai restuarant and tell me how much dinner is. Factor in lunch at 80 - 200 baht, snacks and maybe 2 pints after work and see what figures you bring up. It aint hard mate.

And transport? Easy, its a no brainer if your office is not next door or on the train routes and you don't have company car.

I can create my own party atmosphere at my home when the need is there.

You're not serious surely.

Mate, you really have NO IDEA of the world around you. Weird. Get out more and stop being so stubborn and proud.

[greenwanderer108]

A couple of nights ago, my wife and I did a budget for the month - first time for a few years that we've had to. This month is particularly tight. I asked her how much she needed for herself and to buy food for the 3 of us for the month. She said if we had to we could survive on 500 baht.

Assuming you have a kitchen, it could work.

5 kg of good rice = 100 baht

5 kg of chicken at 70 baht/kg = 350 baht

50 liters of drinking water at a baht/liter = 50 baht

[Doza]

She said if we had to we could survive on 500 baht

You could "survive" on less than that but what's your point???

[GuestHouse]

And I certainly don't think my son will be telling me in a few years 'When I grow up, I want to be a senior manager for a multi-million dollar corporation daddy! That way I can save up for retirement.'

I try not to prejudge the decisions my children will make for themselves when they are older. Meanwhile my wife and I (among other things) are ensuring they get the best education we can find for them and that our children's choices are left as open and as free as we can possibley achieve.

Earning a decent income ensures that we can make that choice AND save for retirement.

Perhaps, I still have something that you might have lost while you were fulfilling your bland dream working 30 years for some corporation...: Imagination

What the f are you on about?. In this statement you are making a totally unfounded judgment that says a lot about you and nothing about the people you are judging.

I hope your kids have some of that left. I hope for their sake, they still have room in their minds for 'the present' and now....the arts, life, color, music, humanity....etc. etc.

My wife, and and our children all play musical instruments. Sketching, drawing are favourite passtimes in our household. My daughter has just started showing an interest in photography, hopefully she'll enjoy that as much as I do. I'll be taking them both skiing next week, and they'll then be going up to Grannies. My mother's a professional artist and is planning to do some pottery with them. Our house and my office are covered in the artwork our children and my family have produced.

Earning a good living and enjoying a well rounded life are not mutually exclusive.

[greenwanderer108]

Choice or ignorance?

20,000 baht a month on food?!!

666 baht a day (BTW I caught that error and edited it before you even clicked post)

That's possible to eat 199 Oishi Ramen buffet 3 times a day, every day of the year and still have 69 baht/day to account for to add up to 20,000 baht/month.

Like the sub-title of this thread asks, Poverty Packing or Common Sense lacking?

Unless you can justify or prove that you actually spend 20,000 baht/month on food in Thailand,

I'm going to assume that you are lacking common sense. Is it I who should open my eyes and pay attention to my surroundings?

How much do you pay for kilogram of beef, chicken, and pork? You have bought groceries in Thailand haven't you? Though I could see why you wouldn't need to spending 666 baht a day on eating.

[Doza]

Unless you can justify or prove that you actually spend 20,000 baht/month on food in Thailand,

Ha ha...what's to justify? And to whom. If you can, and you like to, why not? And why prove? And to whom? Just read below - its not a fantasy mate. Yes, you really do need to open your eyes.

Just go to Starbucks and have a coffee and a fifth of your daily budget is gone in 10 minutes. God forbid you might take someone to dinner once in a while and lay on a few grand. Next thing your average is down for the week. You might go to pub for lunch and a couple of pints - you've just dont more than 3 quarters of your daily budget on ONE MEAL. Or sh*t, you've got friends coming over for a bbq. You lay on some cheese, crackers, wine, whickey, beers, good steak - how much do you reckon that costs, even without the alcohol?????????? Get a grip.

How much do you pay for kilogram of beef, chicken, and pork? You have bought groceries in Thailand haven't you?

Ummm...there's a lot more to groceries than that mate. I've addressed groceries already - see post above.

If you can't see how you can do 600 on food every day on average you are one ignorant person.

Edited April 4, 2006 by Doza

[bendix]

You silly little boy.

I don't NEED to spend 20,000 on food. Of course I could live on a fraction of that.

I do it because i choose to. Because I enjoy it. Because it gives me pleasure to eat in many different types of restaurant, not JUST your buffet places.

Here's a deal. You don't tell me how or what I can spend my income on. And I won't judge what you choose not to spend yours on?

OK?

[greenwanderer108]

You silly little boy.

I don't NEED to spend 20,000 on food. Of course I could live on a fraction of that.

I do it because i choose to. Because I enjoy it. Because it gives me pleasure to eat in many different types of restaurant, not JUST your buffet places.

Here's a deal. You don't tell me how or what I can spend my income on. And I won't judge what you choose not to spend yours on?

OK?

You fat old geezer,

If you don't want to talk about spending incomes, why did you post on

'Monthly Expenditures of Expats' thread?

[greenwanderer108]

Unless you can justify or prove that you actually spend 20,000 baht/month on food in Thailand,

Ha ha...what's to justify? And to whom. If you can, and you like to, why not? And why prove? And to whom? Just read below - its not a fantasy mate. Yes, you really do need to open your eyes.

Just go to Starbucks and have a coffee and a fifth of your daily budget is gone in 10 minutes. God forbid you might take someone to dinner once in a while and lay on a few grand. Next thing your average is down for the week. You might go to pub for lunch and a couple of pints - you've just dont more than 3 quarters of your daily budget on ONE MEAL. Or sh*t, you've got friends coming over for a bbq. You lay on some cheese, crackers, wine, whickey, beers, good steak - how much do you reckon that costs, even without the alcohol?????????? Get a grip.

How much do you pay for kilogram of beef, chicken, and pork? You have bought groceries in Thailand haven't you?

Ummm...there's a lot more to groceries than that mate. I've addressed groceries already - see post above.

If you can't see how you can do 600 on food every day on average you are one ignorant person.

Maybe it is you who needs to open your eyes. Reminder, you're in Thailand. There's nothing Thai about Starbucks or any other place that you would need to spend a few grand on a meal for two...but it's here and someone who is culturally unaware---narrow minded is the exact reason why it's here. It's a win---win.. your perogative to eat what you want, and their right to build to exploit you.

And as enlightened as you think you are about Thailand / Thai ways, I've got news for you, 99 percent of Thai girls (or guys if that's what you fancy) would prefer a Thai style dinner out on the town well under 500 baht for two (i.e. Mhoo Ga ta, Tom Yum Kung, Somtum) than any steak house or fancy wine and potatoes place you'd blow a few grand on. Heck, even the classier Thais choose MK or Fuji than Sizzler...and these options are still under 1000 for two.

While you think you're wooing her, you're only proving how rich and ignorant you are...how little you understand little about Thai culture.

What are you doing in Thailand? Are you one of those expats whos company asked you to work here... and you didn't have a real desire to come in the first place? Sure sounds like it.

[bendix]

You fat old geezer,

If you don't want to talk about spending incomes, why did you post on

'Monthly Expenditures of Expats' thread?

Happy to talk about it, but I'm curious about what gives you the right to call me foolish for choosing to spend MY money in whatsoever way I choose to.

When you have a bit more experience of life, your opinions might be better respected here. So far as most here can make out, your achievements seem to have amounted to:

1) Working in a 7/11

2) Knocking up a girlfriend here, thus forcing you to

3) Living here on a pittance and forcing you to be bitter about those more successful.

You continue with your life . . . Meanwhile I'll continue to save more in a month that you earn in 5 months AND having a fantastic lifestyle at the same time.

Good luck.

[Doza]

Reminder, you're in Thailand. There's nothing Thai about Starbucks

So you're telling me I should only eat Thai food, or have coffee at Thai coffee shops. I see plenty of Thai in Starbucks - more than farangs mostly (there are 3 on Thonglor!). What about them?

someone who is culturally unaware---narrow minded is the exact reason why it's here

Should we tell the Thai people who LOVE starbucks this? Are they too culterally unaware. Wait, don't tell, we corrupted them. Us, the terrible Westerner. Poor Thais, they really don't kow any better do they.

And as enlightened as you think you are about Thailand / Thai ways, I've got news for you, 99 percent of Thai girls (or guys if that's what you fancy) would prefer a Thai style dinner out on the town well under 500 baht for two

That would be 99% of the Thai girls you know.

even the classier Thais choose MK or Fuji

Ha ha...that's a joke surely.

While you think you're wooing her, you're only proving how rich and ignorant you are...how little you understand little about Thai culture

Yeah? What about rich Thais? There's more of them than rich Westerners here. Do they also not understand Thai culture? Why are they driving Mercedes then?

What are you doing in Thailand? Are you one of those expats whos company asked you to work here... and you didn't have a real desire to come in the first place?

Working. No, I came with a job and stayed of my own accord. I love it here because as you say above, its a win win.

But dude, you really are deluded. First you start with the 'if you've got money yopu must have a shit job and don't look after you family and your kids have no imagination' or whatever, and now you're on the [if you make money and spend it how you want] 'you don't understand Thai culture' [because you spend you money how you want] bandwagon.

Dude, you really are deluded.

Anyway, speaking of Thai culture and money - I've never been to a place where money is what defines people so much. Thais are some of the most money oriented people I've ever met. And showing you have money whether that be the phone you have, the car you drive, or the whiskey you drink is what seems to drive half the population here!

[bendix]

Give up guys

This guy knows everything there is to know already.

There's nothing he can gain from us . . . . .

[PeaceBlondie]

The original poster speaks about the offspring of his offspring. At age 63, I'm almost a great-grandfather. The first two kids got master's degrees, and the other four kids never finished 9th grade. The two older ones are working in their academic field, making good money, earning PENSIONS - a rare thing nowadays. The others are barely surviving, and there's no reason to think they'll be any happier at ages 40, 50, and 79 than their older siblings.

Yes, I regret having neglected my kids, and I advise anybody who's working more than 40 hours per week, who has a family, to spend one hour every day with each member of his immediate family.

How could I retire at age 56? By having a pension, by doing the 48 hour work weeks (even some 68 hour workweeks), by neglecting other things. Now I can enjoy life. Yeah, I wish it had been different, but it all depends on where you are in life, what choices you have, what choices you make.

It is such a relief to live in Thailand and not have to worry about every little baht. Hey, I spent 149 baht at Burger-King last night; was that a splurge? Nah, try Great American Ribs.

And my rent for two rooms at the seaside is half what it was, three years ago, in the city for a studio. Now I can drive a Honda 150 instead of 2.4 liter coupe and a 500 bike. I don't even need to work. Excuse me, we're going to take another walk and swim at the beach.

Ohh, one more thing about regrets. If you find out 20 years from now that you made a big mistake in year 2006/2549, mai bpen rai.