Pm Thaksin Resigns

[thedude]

An interesting article:

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:awrDBp...ca&ct=clnk&cd=1

or download in .doc format

http://www.thinkcentreasia.org/documents/corruptionhope.doc.

an excellent reminder of the long term problem of corruption in thailand, and of the high hopes which the present constitution represented once upon a time. how soon we forget, and how eagerly we cast away our previous blood and tears because we are foolishly outraged by the apparent abuse of power by one politician now.

some of those pre-thaksin scandals quoted in the article are really quite funny, i especially like the one about the many private resort homes mysteriously popping up on reservation forrest land.

those accusing me of 'myopia' in previous posts would do well to refresh their own perspectives by looking beyond the recent TRT government and understanding that an underlying assumption i make in my statements is that corruption will continue to exist regardless of who is in power. once you let go of your own knee-jerk western reactions and accept that corruption is the constant embedded in government, you will start to understand why i appreciate cute little attempts like a policy platform and the recent government's penchant for hubs, which quite frankly, they didn't really need to bother themselves with if they were only interested in making a quick buck, just follow their predecessors! most importantly, you will start to appreciate the premium placed on political stability because its the only thing that keeps this country relevant going forward.

Edited April 17, 2006 by thedude

[Jai Dee]

PAD leaders will not face police Thursday

The five core leaders of the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) will not appear before police investigators this week as required by police summonses for questioning them on possible charges of violating national security.

The five leaders have decided not to comply with the police summonses on April 20 because they will be engaged in a political road-show to drum up support for their drive against the so-called Thaksin regime in several provinces in southern Thailand.

The exact date on which they will appear before police investigators has yet to be finalized.

Last Thursday, the Metropolitan Police had issued summonses to the leaders of the anti-Thaksin coalition who staged massive demonstrations on the streets of Bangkok and several other provinces since February in their call for the unconditional resignation of caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

The summonses, issued by deputy commissioner Maj-General Chatchawal Suksomchit, called upon Sondhi Limthongkul, Somsak Kosaisuk, Pipob Thongchai, Somkiat Pongpaiboon and Maj-Gen Chamlong Srimuang to answer police questions regarding numerous complaints they claimed to have received from the public for various actions during their rallies that may have constituted threats to national security.

Despite halting their public demonstrations temporarily on April 4, the day Thaksin announced his decision not to accept the PM’s post on national television, PAD has threatened to resume demonstrations if a new prime minister is not named by May 4.

Somsak Kosaisuk told ThaiDay yesterday that he and other PAD leaders cannot make their appearance for the police on Thursday due to their commitment to staging rallies in several key southern provinces.

Suriyasai Katasila, a PAD founding member, said the five core leaders will travel to Trang, Ranong and Phuket provinces beginning April 20, followed by the northeast and northern regions.

“We will not be able to answer police questions on April 20 because we will all travel and address the public in Trang province on that day,” Somsak said. “We will inform the police that we will go and meet them when we are free from obligations.”

Speaking on behalf of the other leaders, Somsak explained that the previously planned trip is sufficient reason for the unilateral postponement. “It is alright because we had planned the mission beforehand and there is a need to fulfill that obligation,” he said.

Police said several complaints have been lodged against PAD leaders for threats to national security through their numerous anti-Thaksin demonstrations including a massive march from Sanam Luang to Government House on March 14 in which an estimated 150,000 people took part.

When asked whether they felt the summonses for police questioning and the alleged complaints lodged against them were justified, Somsak explained that it was only another form of intimidation by the state. “Technically, the complaints cannot be lodged because the police are not the true victims,” said Somsak. “We understand now that it is only a political game.”

Dismissing the idea that PAD leaders are evading police questioning, Somsak countered by asking why the police did nothing to demonstrators who besieged the offices of The Nation newspaper two weeks ago. “We are not trying to evade or afraid of the questioning and, in fact, are ready to explain all accusations,” Somsak said, “but we are just not ready to go on that day due to our prior engagement in Trang.”

Somsak added that the PAD leaders will seek legal assistance from the Law Council of Thailand on the matter.

In another development, Sondhi Limthongkul, who received another summons from the police to answer charges of l?se-majest? today, will also not be present to meet investigators. Sondhi’s lawyer, Suwat Apaipakdi, told ThaiDay that he will present a written statement from his client to the police along with other physical evidence as rebuttals against the charges. “I will provide Sondhi’s written statement and video recordings to demonstrate what he actually said which cannot be misrepresented as l?se-majest?,” Suwat said.

Source: ThaiDay - 17 April 2006

[Plus]

Well, Slimdog, despite your best intentions there's always some dude, Thedude, actually, who went on to state that Democrats were not any better than TRT.

Thedude, why don't you read other, more recent Pasuk's articles before making comparisons? The link is on page 37, I think. She is not critical, just descriptive.

TRT has gone well beyond petty corruption from Democrats' time.

Edited April 17, 2006 by Plus

[thedude]

Well, Slimdog, despite your best intentions there's always some dude, Thedude, actually, who went on to state that Democrats were not any better than TRT.

Thedude, why don't you read other, more recent Pasuk's articles before making comparisons? The link is on page 37, I think. She is not critical, just descriptive.

TRT has gone well beyond petty corruption from Democrats' time.

an excellent example, as if on cue, to illustrate what i said about people who for whatever reason, are transfixed on the issue of corruption and cannot see that it is a constant.

and now that they finally realise that previous governments (and interestingly i did not pick the Democrats out over any other) could have, heavens forbid, been party to corruption, they attempt a feeble sidestep by suggesting that perhaps the SIZE of the corruption, or the mere PETTYNESS of it, could have somehow rendered them BETTER than the TRT.

er, when referring to something as petty, are you talking about the number of people involved, the lighter moral infringement, or just the likelihood that less bahts were involved? or perhaps by petty you mean that less people were outraged?

okay, try this for size, more people voted for the TRT than any other previously elected government. and this has been reinforced over 3 consecutive elections held over 5 continuous years. doesn't that mean something in a democracy? or maybe the 16 million voters are just stupider than you?

could it be, perhaps, just suspend your own beliefs for a moment, that maybe the 16 million people thought that it would be better to have the TRT in power for the next 4 years, taking into careful consideration the present situation and the alternatives available? could it be that perhaps a few bright sparks among the 16 million actually prefered reality to idealism? could it be that the campaign led by the media and the PAD to outrage people was ineffective in reaching the outrageable millions, perhaps hampered by the evil mechinations of the TRT? or perhaps the people are simply not very outrageable, perhaps through indifference from years of corrupt conditioning, or perhaps because of the forgiving buddhist culture, or perhaps, just perhaps, they were onto the media and all the negative spin, and could see through the hypocrisy of it all. nah, that would make them cleverer than you wouldn't it? so maybe after all, the stupid millions looked around and saw that there ARE new roads, there ARE funds available on credit, there ARE less drugs on the streets, and there ARE new trains and a new airport coming, and they thought, what the heck.

in the end, some 16 million people are just not as outraged as you. according to the rules of democracy, you should now hold your peace until the next elections.

Edited April 17, 2006 by thedude

[jdinasia]

hmmmm careful consideration etc etc etc

but the PAD rallies sure changed the election results where they were held ....

but the last statement was the most telling .....

"under the rules of Democracy ..." Peaceful assembly and keeping your hand in IS part of democracy

[Plus]

Thedude, how much they could possibly steal by selling Salween logs? Peanuts. And they were investigated and prosecuted to some extent. Scandals like this come a dozen a day under TRT and nothing ever happened. Not once, not to anyone, not in any scandal.

Every expert who monitors corruption in this country agrees that it has become much much worse with TRT in charge, and the worst part is that it became legalised and acceptable where it used to be disgraceful and shameful.

Are you really going to argue that corruption is constant in Thailand?

Can you support your opinion with any other source?

>>>>>>>>>>>

16 million (interesting number, did you read Chang Noi's article about it I posted somewhere here today? It was from The Nation), 16 million surely thought that TRT is the best choice for the next 4 years. Some were told to think that, some were paid, some were sincere.

It all didn't matter in the end - it's the corruption that did Thaksin in. Corrupt leaders cannot occupy political posts and corrupt politicians cannot whitewash themselves by popular support. Thaksin tried, than he understood that it won't work.

When are you going to get it, too?

[Jai Dee]

TRT deputy leader said the surveys evaluating caretaker PM's premiership post is in the future tense

Deputy leader of Thai Rak Thai party Sudarat Keyuraphan stated that the recent poll stipulating the disagreement poll over the caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra to hold the post of premiership again is in the future tense. She said she is unable to explain the matter as for now. She insisted that TRT party will follow the rules and regulations.

Khun Ying Sudarat referred to the new political party “Pracharat” under the leadership of Mr. Sanoh Thienthong(สุดารัตน์ เกยุราพันธุ์ ), saying that there should not be any problems since it is under the laws and regulations; she also added that the new-born party is also another choice for the general public.

As for the ABAC poll conducted recently on the current political situation and the leaders of the country of various departments, including whether Dr Thaksin Shinawatra should return to the premiership, Khunying Sudarat said she is unable to give comments as the future is still unknown.

In response to the statement of Democrat party’s secretary-general Suthep Thuagsuban (สุเทพ เทือกสุบรรณ) that TRT party will still insist to open the new parliament eventhough there are not 500 MPs, Khunying Sudarat said that everything will have to be abided by laws and regulations.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 18 April 2006

[Jai Dee]

Chart Thai leader: The new PM should have profound knowledge and experience in the economy

Chart Thai party leader Banharn Silapa-archa(บรรหาร ศิลปอาชา ) views that the new PM should be well accepted by all parties and should have good knowledge about economics as well.

Mr. Banharn spoke about his dining appointment with caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra during last week. He said he has requested Dr. Thaksin to review his performances over the past 5 years and the subjects that were prone to attacks by the opposition group.

He has advised Dr. Thaksin to improve in his errors and to accept all his mistakes as well. He has also requested caretaker premier to find a suitable candidate to hold the post of premiership, adding that the person should be well accepted and opened to opinions from the members of the party. He said the main qualification is that the person should have profound knowledge regarding economic matters.

Mr. Banharn said he is not expecting Dr. Thaksin to consider his advices and insisted that the oppositions do have good understanding about such appointment. He said three opposition parties will hold a meeting again during next week.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 18 April 2006

[ColPyat]

Thedude, how much they could possibly steal by selling Salween logs? Peanuts.

Peanuts?!

Decades of war have been financed by illegal logging in Burma. Unbelievable fortunes were made by the usual suspects. I remember the days when even an ordinary policeman had to pay 1 million baht a month to his superior in order to get stationed at one of the countless dirt tracks where the logs got transported out of Burma. Entire provinces in Burma are almost treeless nowadays.

After the fall of Mannerplaw battles raged between the different Karen fractions over who gets to control the sawmills and border crossings.

Yes, peanuts...

[sriracha john]

Amazing.... 579 posts to this thread with almost 20,000 views and still going strong ....

hahahaha... ridding thaksin after he resigned is harder to get rid of than roaches.

some great posts by jdinasia and plus in the interim since I left on vacation. Be back home tomorrow after a couple of weeks away from news. Been a great time and am fully charged. Maybe we can rid Thailand of the vermin soon. Get the big can of Baygon spray out.

I understand he's off overseas trying to court visits with some big wigs. How's he fairing? Any Western leader willing to give him an audience since his shameful exit or do they no longer wish to be associated with such a crook and deposed despot?

Saw a blurb in a week-old bangkok post laying about the other day about how he wanted to have coffee and chat with Blair.

[Jai Dee]

Acting PM does not discriminate against Mr. Sondhi or Pol. Lt. Col Thaksin

Acting Prime Minister Chitchai Wannasathit (ชิดชัย วรรณสถิตย์) has reaffirmed that he does not discriminate against Mr. Sondhi Limthongkul (สนธิ ลิ้มทองกุล) or Pol. Lt. Col Thaksin Shinawatra. He said that the prosecutions against both of them must be abided by the law.

Mr. Sondhi’s lawyer has claimed that officials have neglected his client’s lawsuit against the Thai Rak Thai Party Leader, but they are concerned with Dr. Thaksin’s prosecution against his client instead. Pol. Gen. Chitchai has refuted the remark and informed that every implementation is under the consideration of the investigating team. He said that nobody has more privileges than another person.

However, Pol. Gen. Chitchai does not comment on the poll’s indication that violence would have taken place if Mr. Sondhi, one of the key members of the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD), has been arrested.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 18 April 2006

[Hermano Lobo]

Libel suit against PAD is a political tactic : Somkiart

One of the People's Alliance for Democracy leaders, Somkiart Pongpaiboon, on Tuesday said malicious law enforcement was the real reason he had not reported to police for questioning about allegations that the PAD was looking to overthrow democratic rule.

"The real motive for charging members of the PAD is to draw them away from the anti-Thaksin campaign," said Somkiart.

Five PAD leaders, including Somkiart, have defied every police summon issued for them and are prepared to fight if court sanctioned arrest warrants are issued against them, he said.

Somkiart and other PAD leaders have been targeted in a number of police investigations. Among the high profile cases include a lese majesty charge against antiThaksin campaigner Sondhi Limthongkul and his alleged campaign against democracy.

Acting on a complaint filed by activist Chalart Worachat last month, police launched criminal proceedings against Somkiart and the PAD on suspicion of a conspiracy to undermine democracy.

Last week, the Metropolitan Police Bureau issued summonses against five PAD leaders, Somkiart, Sondhi, Chamlong Srimuang, Somsak Kosaisuk and Pipop Thongchai.

Police want to question the five about their activities. Should police recommend prosecution, the five may face treason charges.

Somkiart said the police were malicious in their campaign to charge PAD leaders.

"Police and some provincial governors comprise the last bastion of the Thaksin regime in their fight to cling to power," he said.

He said he was the target of some 30 criminal cases while Sondhi was facing more than 80 police probes.

The Nation

[Plus]

Colpyat, there were some numbers in that article. If you add them all up it's 50,000 logs and 5 million baht.

Just one computer sotware scandal in today's news is worth about 3 billion baht.

[boppia]

So if you support Thaksin do you think he made the right choice in leaving? Or was this just a stupid mistake? Should the protesters just have been locked up as there really are so few as you say.

What is Thaksin doing talking to Blair? I also heard he wanted something at the US embassy and wanted the embassy people to visit him at his house. Is he trying to find a new home? If he were to move overseas would he have to pay tax on his lottery winnings if he did?

If his son has duel citizenship and is American does he have to pay any tax on the sale of his business? With the sale done in a tax haven, would that allow him to avoid tax? Why do US companies base their offices in places like the virgin islands? How much tax do they avoid? Sorry for the questions.

Just a note about the election. A lot working poor and others in BKK did not vote on April 2. They waited to go home for Songkran instead. Thaksin asked them to choose between his style "Democracy" and their families. They chose their families. Most people don't want to travel 8 hours back and forth(16 hours total)and can't afford to two weeks in a row. Just a note.

[ando]

Good point about a lot of people from the provences not voting last time because they were away in Bangkok working. Had it not been so close to Songkran perhaps the provincial vote may have been much higher.

I wonder if the democrats support absentee voting in the name of fair play to all those disadvantaged poor?

[ColPyat]

Colpyat, there were some numbers in that article. If you add them all up it's 50,000 logs and 5 million baht.

Just one computer sotware scandal in today's news is worth about 3 billion baht.

This is just one scandal. 50 000 logs are worth far more than 5 million baht, that would be only 1000 baht a log - no way.

Reality is far worse - decades of illegal logging in especially Burma and Cambodia to finance civil wars, Thai business men, military and politicians of all parties making incredible profits from that blood money. What do you think why Thais are despised in most of Burma, Laos and Cambodia?

Do you think the anti Thai riots in Cambodia 5 years ago were just for fun? Every Cambodian knows that Thailand has supported the Khmer Rouge, that Thai soldiers, rangers and police stationed at the border during the 70's and 80's have systematically raped female refugees, taken the little of worth those refugees carried with them.

After the Thai NSC has changed Burma policy during the early 90's from the buffer state policy into supporting SLORC thousands of refugees were pushed over the border into their death, while other Thai elements still squeezed out whatever they could from the rebel armies, at the same time investing heavily into Burma.

Sorry, but Thai modern history is a history of corruption, mass murder, active suppport of genocide and bloodmoney. This did not start with Thaksin, it only continued with Thaksin, actually even decreased a bit under him as the region slowly starts normalising itself after decades of open and secret wars.

Sorry, but i gotta laugh at some of the scandals under Thaksin - at least these scandals did not cost even a fraction of the lives as some of the scandals under previous governments.

[jdinasia]

actually the wholsale cost of a log .. as yet unmilled would be about 1,000 baht

but please make more of it than it is!

[ColPyat]

actually the wholsale cost of a log .. as yet unmilled would be about 1,000 baht

but please make more of it than it is!

I really think you should start reading reports such as the Global Witness reports.

http://www.globalwitness.org/reports/index.php?section=burma

4.4 Thailand-Burma relations and logging in Karen State

Thai support for the insurgencies in Burma was closely associated with a defensive ‘buffer zone’ strategy whereby the presence of insurgent groups on the border prevented direct clashes between Thai forces and the Burmese military. In 1988, in an attempt to influence Thai foreign policy toward the regime, the SLORC granted logging concessions to Thai companies with connections to high-ranking Thai politicians and the military. Key amongst these Thai politicians was General Chavalit, then Commander in Chief of the Thai armed forces, who played a similar role in the importation of timber from Khmer Rouge-held areas of Cambodia. This move, which saw a massive increase in logging on the Thai-Burma border until 1993, spelled the beginning of the end for Thai support of the insurgent groups.

Currently logging on the border is much reduced compared to the levels of the early 1990s, but timber still crosses the border from conflict areas under the control of the Democratic Karen Buddhist Army (DKBA) and the Karen National Union (KNU). Thai timber continues to be laundered across the border, with the complicity of Thai border authorities, in much the same way as it was during the Salween Scandal (see page xx).

In Karen State, as in Kachin State, the ethnic insurgency has a great deal to do with control over natural resources, in particular timber. Logging in contested areas also has strategic implications: logging reduces forest cover, logging roads allow the rapid deployment of troops, and logging companies become directly involved in the conflict by providing combatants with intelligence and transportation.

Logging has resulted in environmental destruction in Karen State and has provided very little material benefit to the average Karen, but the Karen elite, Thai jao por (mafia) and their political patrons have become rich.

[jdinasia]

lol ...

Now I have to worry about Myanmar too? If I were I'd be worried about the Gov't first and not trees

[ColPyat]

lol ...

Now I have to worry about Myanmar too? If I were I'd be worried about the Gov't first and not trees

It is entirely up to you what you worry about, but it would be only in your own interest if you start informing yourself about even the basics of the issues you comment on. The complete ignorance of your statements is more than bewildering.

If you would have even the slightest clue about regional, and Thai, politics than i would not have to painstakingly try to explain you, unfortunately so far with no visible positive result, that the issue of "corruption" in Thailand, you so vehemently argue against, is not centered around Thaksin, but a result of decades of highly complex social and political developments, in which "the trees" do play a major role, as well as drugs, gems, insurgencies, cold war politics, worldwide strange and outright weird alliances and almost impossible partnerships.

You might then understand that the removal of Thaksin by the PAD and other vested interests in the background are to be seen in a completely different light, and that it is not the solution to the inherent problems, such as corruption, of this region.

But yes, i do somewhat understand that it is far easier to post on the internet asinine oneliners from a comfortable armchair than going through complex reports, studies and volumes of books, questioning them, reconfirming facts by physical travel into dangerous crises zones, and that way working oneself through a vast web of deceit.

Why strain yourself with reality when sprouting simplistic blather is so much easier?

[jezchesters]

In half an hour I will arrive at Heathrow Airport ready to meet the Thaksin plane(poor passengers !) I have a bag of rotten eggs and tomatoes.

Ex-PM Thaksin will be my target !

Then he will arrive in the UK with EGG ON HIS FACE ! I hope the politicians will shun this has-been insider trader ?

You go for it Hermano and when they let you out of jail and you are blacklisted from entering Thailand, you can tell us all if it was worth it... I'll turn on BBC Newsworld so I can catch your performance...

?????????????????

Lukamar, you don't get thrown in prison for doing that kind of thing in England

[Jai Dee]

Supreme Commander said current political situation is worrying

Supreme Commander Ruangroj Mahasaranond (เรืองโรจน์ มหาศรานนท์) expressed worries over the current political situation after People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) announced again to hold a huge rally.

As for the senatorial election, he said candidates who will succeed to become senators must carry credibility in them, as they are considered national assets. However, he expressed his concern over the series of the political conflicts. He said that security-related agencies are worried about the possible confrontation during the rally.

He has pleaded all sides to compromise and to end the political impasse as the country and the world will be celebrating the auspicious occassion of the 60th Anniversary of His Majesty the King’s Accession to the Throne.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 19 April 2006

[Jai Dee]

Acting PM Chidchai scorns over the PAD's coming rally

Acting Prime Minister Chitchai Wannasathit(ชิดชัย วรรณสถิตย์ ) expressed disagreements on the coming rally to bew held by the People’s Alliance for Democracy on the 2nd of May. He has urged the public to head for second thoughts.

Gen. Chitchai also talked about the summons issued to one of the core leaders of PAD, Mr. Sonthi Limthongkul(สนธิ ลิ้มทองกุล), adding that it is the duty of inquiry officials. He also said that Mr. Sonthi can replace the officials if he feels they are not being neutral. However, he indicated that the matter depends on the consideration of Royal Thai Police.

Acting premier has urged all parties to respect the decision of the court. He believes there be not be any conflicts in the society since the decision will not be made from one person.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 19 April 2006

[Jai Dee]

For PAD, offense is the best defense

At the October 14 Monument yesterday, Sondhi Limthongkul and other core leaders of the People’s Alliance for Democracy declared their intention to defy police summonses to respond to a litany of allegations.

Key leaders of the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) will not comply with police summonses to answer questions related to treason charges and dared the police to arrest them, claiming that it would only fuel the nationwide anti-Thaksin sentiment.

Denying that the series of lawsuits and police summonses thrust against them had cornered their movement to topple the so-called Thaksin regime, PAD leaders Sondhi Limthongkul, Chamlong Srimuang, Pipob Thongchai and Somsak Kosaisuk say the police intimidation aims to end their scrutiny of the various illegitimacies of caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his cronies.

Speaking yesterday afternoon at the October 14 Monument, PAD leaders warned police against resorting to any irregularities, saying that they would face the public’s wrath as massive demonstrations against the government would be renewed immediately.

“The police summonses and lawsuits against PAD are intimidation and oppression in the style of a totalitarian police state,” said Pipob. “State mechanisms are being used to end PAD’s scrutiny of the illicit activities of the government.”

“We are not on the defensive,” he added. “On the contrary, we are on the offensive to topple the Thaksin regime by aggressively expanding our campaign around the country.”

It appears that the caretaker government is now cornering PAD with several lawsuits and police summonses related to accusations of breach of national security, lése majestè and operating without a license.

On Monday, Crime Suppression Division (CSD) police threatened to issue an arrest warrant for Sondhi if he failed to comply with the second summons to meet investigators next Monday to answer lése majestè accusations after he failed to comply with the first summons on Monday morning.

All the PAD leaders have been summoned to appear before the police tomorrow on a separate allegation of violations of national security laws. Police have threatened to issue second summonses for the other PAD leaders if they do not meet with investigators.

“No PAD leader will comply with any unjust summons,” said Suwat Apaipak, a lawyer from the Thai Law Council representing the PAD leaders. “Arrest warrants can only issued by the courts, not the police.”

Suwat explained that the summonses are part of a propaganda campaign launched to convey to the uninformed masses in the provinces that the PAD movement had failed.

“If PAD leaders comply with the summonses, the police may seek to fingerprint them and will circulate the pictures to show that PAD leaders have been arrested and the movement defeated,” Suwat said.

The PAD leaders threatened to relaunch their massive public demonstrations immediately if they are arrested or anything suspicious occurs.

PAD also derided the summonses that ordered the PAD leaders to answer accusations that they had breached national security by encouraging the public to violate the Constitution and the law.

“We demonstrated peacefully under the provisions of Article 44 of the Constitution to question Thaksin on corruption and abuses of power,” said Pipob.

It was pointed out that leading police investigators are affiliated with Thaksin.

“Pol Lt-Gen Chalor Choowong, the assistant national police chief, is a former classmate of Thaksin while Pol Maj-Gen Vinai Thongsong is married to Thaksin’s kin,” said Suwat.

“The police summonses clearly show that he remains resentful of PAD’s efforts to expose his wrongdoings,” said Somsak.

Source: ThaiDay - 19 April 2006

[hammered]

Colpyat, there were some numbers in that article. If you add them all up it's 50,000 logs and 5 million baht.

Just one computer sotware scandal in today's news is worth about 3 billion baht.

This is just one scandal. 50 000 logs are worth far more than 5 million baht, that would be only 1000 baht a log - no way.

Reality is far worse - decades of illegal logging in especially Burma and Cambodia to finance civil wars, Thai business men, military and politicians of all parties making incredible profits from that blood money. What do you think why Thais are despised in most of Burma, Laos and Cambodia?

Do you think the anti Thai riots in Cambodia 5 years ago were just for fun? Every Cambodian knows that Thailand has supported the Khmer Rouge, that Thai soldiers, rangers and police stationed at the border during the 70's and 80's have systematically raped female refugees, taken the little of worth those refugees carried with them.

After the Thai NSC has changed Burma policy during the early 90's from the buffer state policy into supporting SLORC thousands of refugees were pushed over the border into their death, while other Thai elements still squeezed out whatever they could from the rebel armies, at the same time investing heavily into Burma.

Sorry, but Thai modern history is a history of corruption, mass murder, active suppport of genocide and bloodmoney. This did not start with Thaksin, it only continued with Thaksin, actually even decreased a bit under him as the region slowly starts normalising itself after decades of open and secret wars.

Sorry, but i gotta laugh at some of the scandals under Thaksin - at least these scandals did not cost even a fraction of the lives as some of the scandals under previous governments.

Refering to your last sentence I dont remember a few thousand alleged drug dealers getting riddled with bullets under the Banharn or Chuan governemnts. I dont remember the south going up in flames under these goverments either.

[ColPyat]

Refering to your last sentence I dont remember a few thousand alleged drug dealers getting riddled with bullets under the Banharn or Chuan governemnts. I dont remember the south going up in flames under these goverments either.

I think that i have made in previous posts more than clear how disgusted i feel about the deaths during the drugwar.

Nevertheless, the point i was trying to make here was that insane brutality and blatant corruption was not invented by Thaksin, and will not go away with Thaksin's fall, but that politicians, businessmen and military figures allied with all parties in Thailand for a very long time have enormous amounts of blood on their hands, including people allied with your beloved PAD. So far, i have not heard that for example Senator Kraisak Choonhavan has ever distanced himself publicly from the revolting past of his family, has given back the vast riches his family has amassed from the blood of tenthousands of innocents.

No, the very black history of the figures of the present Thai elite includes the collaboration with the Khmere Rouge during the more than two decades of civil war after their ouster by the Vietnamese (together with China, Britain, and of course the US), the collaboration with both the Burmese army and the minority rebel armies, the support of the Hmong insurgency that after the US left the Laotian theatre alone cost mainly the lives of innocents.

As long as people who were involved in those horrific events are still holding positions of power in Thailand, there will never be any substantial change towards a more open and fair society, regardless who may be Prime Minister. Compared to some of them Thaksin is a moral being.

[jdinasia]

it is always fun to watch ColPyat ... say

I think that i have made in previous posts more than clear how disgusted i feel about the deaths during the drugwar.

and then get the real thoughts .....

Compared to some of them Thaksin is a moral being.

[ColPyat]

it is always fun to watch ColPyat ... say

I think that i have made in previous posts more than clear how disgusted i feel about the deaths during the drugwar.

and then get the real thoughts .....

Compared to some of them Thaksin is a moral being.

It is always fun to watch how jdinasia personalises a discussion when he can't contribute anything even closely resembling the topic.

Or is he just trying to get his post count up?

[lukamar]

In half an hour I will arrive at Heathrow Airport ready to meet the Thaksin plane(poor passengers !) I have a bag of rotten eggs and tomatoes.

Ex-PM Thaksin will be my target !

Then he will arrive in the UK with EGG ON HIS FACE ! I hope the politicians will shun this has-been insider trader ?

You go for it Hermano and when they let you out of jail and you are blacklisted from entering Thailand, you can tell us all if it was worth it... I'll turn on BBC Newsworld so I can catch your performance...

?????????????????

Lukamar, you don't get thrown in prison for doing that kind of thing in England

jezchesters it would help you understand the situation if you go back in the thread and read ALL the posts by the two of us. I was joking with Hernando, as he was joking with me over a couple of days, a that was week ago. Don't bother looking for something that isn't there.

[sriracha john]

Refering to your last sentence I dont remember a few thousand alleged drug dealers getting riddled with bullets under the Banharn or Chuan governemnts. I dont remember the south going up in flames under these goverments either.

I think that i have made in previous posts more than clear how disgusted i feel about the deaths during the drugwar.

Nevertheless, the point i was trying to make here was that insane brutality and blatant corruption was not invented by Thaksin, and will not go away with Thaksin's fall, but that politicians, businessmen and military figures allied with all parties in Thailand for a very long time have enormous amounts of blood on their hands, including people allied with your beloved PAD. So far, i have not heard that for example Senator Kraisak Choonhavan has ever distanced himself publicly from the revolting past of his family, has given back the vast riches his family has amassed from the blood of tenthousands of innocents.

No, the very black history of the figures of the present Thai elite includes the collaboration with the Khmere Rouge during the more than two decades of civil war after their ouster by the Vietnamese (together with China, Britain, and of course the US), the collaboration with both the Burmese army and the minority rebel armies, the support of the Hmong insurgency that after the US left the Laotian theatre alone cost mainly the lives of innocents.

As long as people who were involved in those horrific events are still holding positions of power in Thailand, there will never be any substantial change towards a more open and fair society, regardless who may be Prime Minister. Compared to some of them Thaksin is a moral being.

Colpyat, do you never tire of spewing garbage?

Yes, we all know that you are ardently anti-Thaksin... anti-Drug War. You relish telling us either one or both of those sentences with almost every post.... and THEN, you proceed to go on for the next 30 sentences why Thaksin isn't really so bad... or that the Drug Wars have been going on forever, etc. downplaying the significance of Thaksin's corruption, blaming others for his offenses, likening others' passive acceptance with the same guilt as Thaksin's aggressiveness... etc. or some other such nonsense.

You can't really expect people to just stand idly by and let your trolling go on unabated. If you got legitimate posts to make... make them... don't go trolling with hypocritical and duplicitous posts indefinitely... they are getting nauseatingly difficult to resist correcting. They clutter up threads and lead to so much bickering, it seems like hardly a thread goes by that mods don't have to either

a. close

b. issue warnings

c. get so side-tracked they might as well be closed

Ok, your trolling skills are admirable. You often do get the result you intend as described above. Hats off to you, you are quite the accomplished troll and will go down in TV history as one of the very few who achieved Bedlam status.

now.... bugger off, please.

Edited April 20, 2006 by sriracha john