Disliking everyone you meet in Thailand...

[Docno]

A professor friend of mine from the US did some groundbreaking research in the 80s on job satisfaction. Previously, people had believe that employees are unhappy because there's something wrong with the job/company. But by studying people over many years across many job changes, he was able to show that people who are unhappy in one job will tend to be unhappy in other. I'm just wondering why so many of them seem to end up on Thaivisa and perhaps in Thailand itself.

By studying people over many years across many job changes, he was able to show that people who are unhappy in one job will tend to be unhappy in ANother.

I'm just wondering why so many of them seem to end up on Thaivisa and perhaps in Thailand itself.

----------------------------

Men with an unattractive outlook on life are invariably unattractive to women. These men come to Thailand because they have failed to find women in their own countries. For them, Thailand is a last resort.

Initially they're happy, but it soon wears off. Eventually they become every bit as bitter, cynical and resentful as they were "back home".

And after that ......... they join ThaiVisa.

Thanks for correcting the typo... have become too reliant on grammar checkers I guess :-)

You're welcome.

Do you have a link to your professor's research? I'd like to read his findings.

Here's a couple:

http://myweb.usf.edu/~jdorio/Job%20satisfaction%20dispositional%20and%20situational.pdf

http://mario.gsia.cmu.edu/micro_2007/readings/Arvey_Job%20satisfaction.pdf

The researcher's name is 'Arvey' ... good buddy of mine: sharp mind and great guy to swill beer with as well.

[theblether]

I posted yesterday that farangs used to be accorded respect here, and we are now losing that respect. It's certainly the case that familiarity can breed contempt, but contemptible attitudes will certainly breed contempt.

There's plenty of farangs in Thailand with contemptible attitudes, plenty.

[Docno]

A professor friend of mine from the US did some groundbreaking research in the 80s on job satisfaction. Previously, people had believe that employees are unhappy because there's something wrong with the job/company. But by studying people over many years across many job changes, he was able to show that people who are unhappy in one job will tend to be unhappy in other. I'm just wondering why so many of them seem to end up on Thaivisa and perhaps in Thailand itself.

By studying people over many years across many job changes, he was able to show that people who are unhappy in one job will tend to be unhappy in ANother.

I'm just wondering why so many of them seem to end up on Thaivisa and perhaps in Thailand itself.

----------------------------

Men with an unattractive outlook on life are invariably unattractive to women. These men come to Thailand because they have failed to find women in their own countries. For them, Thailand is a last resort.

Initially they're happy, but it soon wears off. Eventually they become every bit as bitter, cynical and resentful as they were "back home".

And after that ......... they join ThaiVisa.

Thanks for correcting the typo... have become too reliant on grammar checkers I guess :-)

You're welcome.

Do you have a link to your professor's research? I'd like to read his findings.

Here's a couple:

http://myweb.usf.edu/~jdorio/Job%20satisfaction%20dispositional%20and%20situational.pdf

http://mario.gsia.cmu.edu/micro_2007/readings/Arvey_Job%20satisfaction.pdf

The researcher's name is 'Arvey' ... good buddy of mine: sharp mind and great guy to swill beer with as well.

[theblether]

I posted yesterday that farangs used to be accorded respect here, and we are now losing that respect. It's certainly the case that familiarity can breed contempt, but contemptible attitudes will certainly breed contempt.

There's plenty of farangs in Thailand with contemptible attitudes, plenty.

[BradinAsia]

One final point...

I was going to start a thread about good experiences in Thailand, but work got in the way. But I was going to describe my positive experiences from just last during a road trip around Ubon.

• The two young ladies travelling from Bangkok who paid a boatman for a ride that my faen and I just had with them. They were simply being friendly and generous ... no ulterior motives.
• The old school friend's of my faen in her vllage who shared their whisky with us and tried to talk to me in English and put up with my lousy Thai.
• The Thai strangers at a park who helped me when I slipped during a climb and injured my hand. [And the Thai guy at the pharmacy who was friendly and showed a lot of concern].
• The ladies in the market who laughingly asked to try their food for free to see if the farang could handle the spiciness (I could)
• The lady who rented me the car at a lower-than-posted rate because I've rented before and will do so again
• My faen's father who shyly (because he speaks no English) and genuinely came to me to thank me for giving him some money to hire people to help him in the fields, money that equated to less than an hour of my income but got him a10 people for a day.
• And the smiling ladies at the airport ticket counter who assigned me more expensive seats on the plane at no extra charge because I am taller than average (among Thais).

I'm not so naive as to believe that everyone in any country is well-intentioned ... but I have had very few bad experiences with people in Thailand, and many more good experiences than I am used to (I've lived for over 10 years each in Australia, Canada, and Singapore, and have done a fair bit of traveling).

Perhaps, as others have suggested, our own attitudes and behaviour determine the experiences we have. John Lennon called it Instant Karma ...

Good post.

My experiences (and sentiments) are very similar.

[StreetCowboy]

I posted yesterday that farangs used to be accorded respect here, and we are now losing that respect. It's certainly the case that familiarity can breed contempt, but contemptible attitudes will certainly breed contempt.

There's plenty of farangs in Thailand with contemptible attitudes, plenty.

Good job getting the double post separated by a few others!

Well done!

[xenophon]

Won't waste too much time on this .... but,

Given your moniker, I expected a better analysis. Although I am sceptical of those who offer culture as a universal explanation, in this case, Thailand has never been and never will be a law-abiding society - for very good cultural reasons - survival and development. To put it simply, as a Thai, you would not survive if you objected every time your rights were violated, were the only sane driver on the road, the only honest cop at the station, or did not participate, even minmally (paying a traffic cop, accepting money for your vote) in fraud and corruption - not to mention the politicians, 'legal' system and impunity.

I find the best solution is to keep head down, enjoy what is positive (which is a lot) and accept that it is a kleptocratic system by foreign standards. It is often annoying but not difficult to comprehend, not a moral matter but a cultural one. So, save yourself a heart attack.

In regard to TV, i agree. It is a home for cranky old gits, one of which i must be by definition. I just ignore most of the ill-informed and bilious comments and try to find a gem (not often successful).

One anecdotal observation which does get under my skin. I have never come across so many b_llsh_t artists (foreigners) before in my life or in any other country as I have over the years in Bkk. It is astounding what people expect you to believe about themselves. Their wealth, their status, their knowledge. This adolescent need to impress both annoys and amuses.

[xenophon]

OK, last post for a while, veering into the academic. I went to a research talk this week on what predicts successful expat adjustment in a foreign country (of course, focused on managers sent overseas). Turns out researchers have identified four factors that play a role in how well people adjust to a new cultural environment:

1. Their motivation and interest in interacting with people from the other culture
2. Their knowledge about the customs and practices (etc) in the other culture
3. Their ability to step back and understand their own reactions during cross-cultural exchanges
4. And their ability to adjust their own behaviour appropriately to the new environment

Interestingly, it seems that #1 plays the strongest role in adjustment. I'll say no more (for a while)....

This is one of a whole series of models. The best point to be gleaned from your post is that ex pats must have an intellectual framework (cultural knowledge, not just a bit of language) to settle happily into another culture.

There are also some personalty traits which are important, including, not surprisingly, a sense of humour and ability to laugh at your own mistakes - and use these to learn from.

If you send me your email, I can give you lots on initercultural interactions, cultulral knowledge, etc.

Unfortunately, many expats are too cynical, redneck, drunk, ethnocentric or stupid to learn what is required or, worse still, obtain their insights from pot-boilers written by drunks and lonely sexpats - or from well-meaning but not very culturally competent Thai girls.

[xenophon]

OK, last post for a while, veering into the academic. I went to a research talk this week on what predicts successful expat adjustment in a foreign country (of course, focused on managers sent overseas). Turns out researchers have identified four factors that play a role in how well people adjust to a new cultural environment:

1. Their motivation and interest in interacting with people from the other culture
2. Their knowledge about the customs and practices (etc) in the other culture
3. Their ability to step back and understand their own reactions during cross-cultural exchanges
4. And their ability to adjust their own behaviour appropriately to the new environment

Interestingly, it seems that #1 plays the strongest role in adjustment. I'll say no more (for a while)....

This is one of a whole series of models. The best point to be gleaned from your post is that ex pats must have an intellectual framework (cultural knowledge, not just a bit of language) to settle happily into another culture.

There are also some personalty traits which are important, including, not surprisingly, a sense of humour and ability to laugh at your own mistakes - and use these to learn from.

If you send me your email, I can give you lots on initercultural interactions, cultulral knowledge, etc.

Unfortunately, many expats are too cynical, redneck, drunk, ethnocentric or stupid to learn what is required or, worse still, obtain their insights from pot-boilers written by drunks and lonely sexpats - or from well-meaning but not very culturally competent Thai girls.

[NoshowJones]

Well, I do agree with MrWorldwide to some extent. Many of the posts are extremely negative.

I have been called both a Thai hater and a Thai lover. I just call things as I see them.

[xenophon]

Perhaps, as others have suggested, our own attitudes and behaviour determine the experiences we have. John Lennon called it Instant Karma ...

John Lennon was very wise.

Some people radiate kindness and good heartedness, other people radiate bitterness and twistedness.

Some people have the basic civility and manners to go through life being polite and well thought of, others don't know what it means to be well mannered.

I watched a recent example of a rude aggressive farang reducing a Thai waitress to tears as she couldn't understand what he was saying. I was sitting four feet away and I couldn't understand him either.

The problem was entirely his, the end result was a young lady in tears and him muttering about stupid useless Thais.

It took her a while to compose herself, by this point the guys companions had launched into a verbal against him for being so rude. Good on them.

I lay you odds it hasn't made a blind bit of difference though, he'll still be as bitter today, and he'll still be blaming her.

Saw a similar thing happen in Singapore a couple of months back. A 60-something guy (later explained he was a Geordie) had ordered French onion soup and then when the Indian cook/waiter came by, rudely berated him for all the 'bread and cheese <deleted>' on top of the soup. Both the cook and I had a hard time understanding the customer because of his accent, but he did not disguise his anger and contempt. I explained to the customer that French onion sop is indeed made that way and the cook agreed to remove the offending bread and cheese and went away to do so. The Geordie turned out to have stayed in Asia for a long time (shipping industry) and was very friendly to me ... but not a word of apology to the Indian cook (who had done nothing wrong). I can only imagine how this sort of experience can affect people's reactions to (and stereotypes of) farangs...

Love these types of stories. Like the Australians I saw in Jakarta who took all the ice cubes out of their drinks and left them on the cafe table as a health measure (avoid typhus). The 4 Indians in Soi 4 who ordered one orange juice and then took over the pool table, the American just this week who, while arguing about the price of his meal, busily ate most of it. And my favourite .....

A successful and hard working Italian sugar cane cutter in Nth Queensland finally built his dream mansion. He ordered a copy of the Venus de Milo for his driveway and then tried to claim insurance because (on arrrival) he discovered its arms were broken.

[toybits]

...Means you seriously need to see a shrink - QUICK!!!

[andrew]

One anecdotal observation which does get under my skin. I have never come across so many b_llsh_t artists (foreigners) before in my life or in any other country as I have over the years in Bkk. It is astounding what people expect you to believe about themselves. Their wealth, their status, their knowledge. This adolescent need to impress both annoys and amuses.

There used to be a British pub in Patpong. It was called Bobby's Arms. Perhaps it's still there; perhaps it isn't.

I went in there once and started talking to an English guy. This would have been more than a decade ago.

The guy looked at me and said ........... I'm a spy. I'm undercover. I work for MI6.

And he was completely serious.

---------------------------------

On another note, the impossible is not always a lie. You can usually gauge what's true from the way it's told.

My ex, for example, really did cheat on me. She had an affair with the Manager of ABC Football Team. Back in 2010, he really was voted Thailand's coach of the year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_Premier_League_Coach_of_the_Year

Am I bitter? No. Am I cynical? No. Did I learn a lot from this? Yes.

Do I dislike every farang I meet in Thailand? Definitely not.

I actually quite like farangs!!

[xenophon]

One anecdotal observation which does get under my skin. I have never come across so many b_llsh_t artists (foreigners) before in my life or in any other country as I have over the years in Bkk. It is astounding what people expect you to believe about themselves. Their wealth, their status, their knowledge. This adolescent need to impress both annoys and amuses.

There used to be a British pub in Patpong. It was called Bobby's Arms. Perhaps it's still there; perhaps it isn't.

I went in there once and started talking to an English guy. This would have been more than a decade ago.

The guy looked at me and said ........... I'm a spy. I'm undercover. I work for MI6.

And he was completely serious.

---------------------------------

On another note, the impossible is not always a lie. You can usually gauge what's true from the way it's told.

My ex, for example, really did cheat on me. She had an affair with the Manager of ABC Football Team. Back in 2010, he really was voted Thailand's coach of the year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_Premier_League_Coach_of_the_Year

Am I bitter? No. Am I cynical? No. Did I learn a lot from this? Yes.

Do I dislike every farang I meet in Thailand? Definitely not.

I actually quite like farangs!!

re the spy story ..... there was a guy in Kanchanaburi about 8 years ago who claimed he worked for the CIA. Use to wander around talking into his shirt collar.

In my younger days, I used to pick up tourist chicks by telling them I was a writer. One of those pick up lines that gets better as you become more practised. Also, as a writer, you have no dough - so they pay the bill.

[mikemac]

You will never have a life anywhere@ what a waste of flesh you are.Get a balcony as soon as and do a leap! I have met happier better ajusted people in the gutter..

Your advice would be better received if it was more precisely targeted. Who specifically are you talking to? Can you imagine the mortification if the wrong chap topped hisself on your advice?

For my part, I've never met anyone in the gutter, and if I had, I hope that they and I would have the decency not to recollect it in public.

Personally, I like to think everyone has some value, if only to remind ourselves that our own misfortunes are trivial and insignificant, and that the foibles and prejudices of our own acquaintances pale in the shadow of the idiocy one can find on the internet.

SC

@ StreetCowboy, I hope he wasn't referring to me, my condo is on the fifth floor !

[SouthernMan3]

Thais trust absolutely no one.

My partner would trust me with her life

And I trust my wife with mine !

[SouthernMan3]

Thais trust absolutely no one.

My partner would trust me with her life

And I trust my wife with mine !

And a helluva lot more I might add

[StreetCowboy]

You will never have a life anywhere@ what a waste of flesh you are.Get a balcony as soon as and do a leap! I have met happier better ajusted people in the gutter..

Your advice would be better received if it was more precisely targeted. Who specifically are you talking to? Can you imagine the mortification if the wrong chap topped hisself on your advice?

For my part, I've never met anyone in the gutter, and if I had, I hope that they and I would have the decency not to recollect it in public.

Personally, I like to think everyone has some value, if only to remind ourselves that our own misfortunes are trivial and insignificant, and that the foibles and prejudices of our own acquaintances pale in the shadow of the idiocy one can find on the internet.

SC

@ StreetCowboy, I hope he wasn't referring to me, my condo is on the fifth floor !

"WAAAAaaaaaaaah " Clunk.

I don't think you wanted to do that. not living in a bungalow you didn't"

Personally, I think that not only was his advice poorly targeted and not specific enough, he failed to realise that some people's circumstances might differ from his own, and we all might not live in high rise tenements.

Which brings us to an important learning opportunity; although people may mean well when they offer advice, we need to be aware that it might not be appropriate in our own special circumstances

[mikemac]

If I had known what I now know about Thailand after 7 years here, I would NOT have relocated here. Im thankful for the many varied interesting experiences here, good and bad. However I prefer a more higher quality of life, saner, less corrupt and hypocitical society.

Nevertheless, I have encountered some wonderfully friendly and open people, staff, students, colleagues etc. But they are the exception, not the rule.

So I will be leaving at the end of the year with no regrets. Ariverderci!

So it took you seven years to work the place out ?

Don't quite know what to say about that, except see ya !

[xenophon]

Thais trust absolutely no one.

My partner would trust me with her life

And I trust my wife with mine !

There's quite a few of us who trust your wives - very discrete

[belg]

so the OP does not even live in thailand... why bother

[klubex99]

I do see what you mean, and I am no exception. I like to concentrate on the positive things Thailand has to offer, and sometimes do get pulled in toi negative posting, but only usually it is a reaction to negative posts against myself.

You can't really post negative or positive here. Because posting positive gets you attacked by negative thinkers, and post negative and you get attacked by positive thinkers.

Normally it is the same people who just seem to deliberately swing either way depending on what you post, so they don't have a system of consistent thinking, they just have a system of consistent attack, and those are the type of members I would ban without warnings.

I own my own forum, and I have a policy where if a member behaves negatively enough as to start scaring away other members from posting, he/she is banned instantly. No warnings. Just banned.

[SouthernMan3]

Thais trust absolutely no one.

My partner would trust me with her life

And I trust my wife with mine !

There's quite a few of us who trust your wives - very discrete

Wives ?

I only have one.

[mikemac]

And I would ban posters who blatantly disregard rule #8 - Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand or derogatory comments directed towards all Thais.

No warnings. Just banned.

[klubex99]

And I would ban posters who blatantly disregard rule #8 - Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand or derogatory comments directed towards all Thais.

No warnings. Just banned.

TV would be a ghost town... lol

Actually I will edit to add that I rarely see extremely negative views of Thailand, and the ones I do see usually come from a poster's bad experience in Thailand. I personally don't censure those things, I do however watch for 'hunters' members who are just hunting down other members in a form of cyber bullying.

But then again, my forum is about online opportunities and some of them are out and out scams, and so i accept negative debate, so it's not really the same sort of theme.

A lot of people here post negative things in context but get drawn out of context by certain members to make the poster look foolish, even though they know they are taking things out of context, that is what I hate. Nothing more frustrating than having things taken 'deliberately' out of context for the sole purpose of a public character assassination.

Edited July 19, 2013 by klubex99

[jpinx]

it'd be more appropriate to ban people who don't actually live in Thailand

[AnotherOneAmerican]

And I would ban posters who blatantly disregard rule #8 - Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand or derogatory comments directed towards all Thais.

No warnings. Just banned.

TV would be a ghost town... lol

Actually I will edit to add that I rarely see extremely negative views of Thailand, and the ones I do see usually come from a poster's bad experience in Thailand. I personally don't censure those things, I do however watch for 'hunters' members who are just hunting down other members in a form of cyber bullying.

But then again, my forum is about online opportunities and some of them are out and out scams, and so i accept negative debate, so it's not really the same sort of theme.

A lot of people here post negative things in context but get drawn out of context by certain members to make the poster look foolish, even though they know they are taking things out of context, that is what I hate. Nothing more frustrating than having things taken 'deliberately' out of context for the sole purpose of a public character assassination.

Well said!

[mikemac]

It certainly would be if rule # 7 - Not to post slurs or degrading comments directed towards any group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.........................was enforced as well.

I have read many entertaining, insightful, interesting and very funny posts on this forum over the years that did not contravene rules #7 or #8.

[PoorSucker]

Flames, trolling and responses removed.

[EyesWideOpen]

If you think every Thai here is out to kill you or scam you, you would be wrong. If you thought every person here has the milk of human kindness flowing from their breast and has your best interest at heart, you would be wrong...

The truth is somewhere in the middle, it is up to you to use your intellectual capabilities to assess each situation on its own merits. Does TV seem to slant a bit more to the negative side ? Probably. But then it would simply be following the media in general, which tends to focus more on bad news as that is what sells.

The happiest people in Thailand are the two week tourists on their first visit here, who think they have died and gone to heaven. The saddest people here are the long term expats who interacted with the Thai culture, and did not come off very well. They were scammed, cheated, drugged, assaulted, and now do not like Thailand anymore. So just decide where you fit in......