your cell phone can be located even when turned off

[johnsuma]

Well it is a good new for people that are normal, hope they do not think to charge us in the future...

[Phil Conners]

Far as I followed this it is still not clear how they do it, don't know if I should believe it or not. Only thing I'm sure of I am deamericanizing my internet behaviour, all that megacompanies need to be boycotted, just my new principle, boycott everything American. They deserve it because they are unreliable and fool the people became normal for them. Everything European is better in any case, GMX mail (german) versus Gmail, Wuala (swiss) versus Dropbox etc.

German Minister: Drop Google, Facebook To Avoid U.S. Spying

Only American brands I love are Leatherman, Maglite and Jack Daniels, bur for the internet I don't want them anymore

I also prefer Wuala over Dropbox, but I'm not sure I can agree with GMX over Gmail, unless you was only referring to security, and I'm not sure how important that is, email is by design no more secure than an open postcard. Ok some people tell me Gmail have some automatic systems reading my mail and sending me targeted ads. Good luck to them, I've never seen one, maybe the adblock plugin has something to do with that.

In fairness, I haven't looked at GMS for years so I just signed up for an email account with them to have a look. Come on, how can you compare that interface with Gmail? It so 2000.

And please tell me how I can use it with my own domain name such as I currently do with Gmail (Google Apps, yes I know they've restricted the free access to that now, but I still have a grandfathered original free GA account).

I just sent a mail from my gmx mail account to my GA mail account. It ended up in the spam folder with this comment:

Of course it could be they do it just to annoy gmx

[slipperylobster]

Far as I followed this it is still not clear how they do it, don't know if I should believe it or not. Only thing I'm sure of I am deamericanizing my internet behaviour, all that megacompanies need to be boycotted, just my new principle, boycott everything American. They deserve it because they are unreliable and fool the people became normal for them. Everything European is better in any case, GMX mail (german) versus Gmail, Wuala (swiss) versus Dropbox etc.

German Minister: Drop Google, Facebook To Avoid U.S. Spying

Only American brands I love are Leatherman, Maglite and Jack Daniels, bur for the internet I don't want them anymore

don't forget the jeans....."Levi's" !!! Everyone wears those.

By the way, Levi's Jeans are embossed with satellite reflecting technology and the bar code on the back label (Leather stitched) can be scanned and triangulated from outer space, thus revealing your location.....as well.

If your jeans would have the opportunity to be tracked. I can tell you NSA wants to to have access to it and they will force it. Like they force AOL, Microsoft, Apple, Yahoo to have direct access to all user database. Also big global internet service providers like are forced to give to direct un-restricted access to mirror all internet traffic.

Now make your jokes, and wait until in some years we will have a governments which are using all against us. The real problem is that you are giving away your human rights to people who now might been interested in good things. But what happens if these people change and people govern who will abuse their power. But then you can do nothing because they can fully control you and know everyone who is against them.

I do not share your doomsday forecast. Freedom and democracy will prevail, against all odds. Sure, it may take alot of work to make it happen, but trends can be reversed. To say that America is the "Evil" lurking to steal the future of democracy, is, in itself, humorous. To say that an American President is an "all powerful" entity in the United States is humorously ignorant. I suggest that people reread the American Constitution and pay closer attention to the "Checks and Balances" whereupon the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches battle each other on issues, such as privacy and individual rights, on a daily basis. I have faith in my country, and its not a "blind" faith that others insinuate. My faith is based on the reasoning that the American Government is in service to the people. Its not a perfect Government.... It is humbling to hear people, from Europe especially, to say that my Country is this all powerful evil entity bent on destroying democracy. Thats the joke. My jokes, although cavalier in appearance, are just my way of saying......."America is just full of average joe's like you. " The evil empire is not out of control.

[technologybytes]

Correct. The only viable way is what the yahoos out in the Middle East do, that is, remove the battery after every phone call.

Apple put a stop to that with the iPhone, by soldering the battery in. :-)

Actually I recently changed the battery in my iPhone.. I assure you it's not soldered in at all !

I did need a tiny screwdriver to get the back off, it came with the battery.

For the record, when a iPhone is turned off all transmission and reception is turned off, it cannot be tracked at all. In fact just about the only thing it can do is wake for the alarm if you set one and wake you up.

[jpduggan]

Are they any good at finding car keys. I'd have work for them after I've been out on the piss.

[bangkokstick]

Not possible.

[slipperylobster]

Batteries were non essential for communications even 40 years ago....

A crystal radio receiver, also called a crystal set or cat's whisker receiver, is a very simple radio receiver, popular in the early days of radio. It needs no battery or power source and runs on the power received from radio waves.

[pacovl46]

How is this news? Not only can they locate you, but they can also turn your phone on and use it as a listening device without the screen turning on. If you really want to get off the grid you have to take the battery out, or leave it at home.

[hawker9000]

How is this news? Not only can they locate you, but they can also turn your phone on and use it as a listening device without the screen turning on. If you really want to get off the grid you have to take the battery out, or leave it at home.

....or buy a cheap 2nd phone and strap it onto some wild animal, or maybe leave it under the seat in a taxi.

[rbrooks]

boycott everything American.

except....

Leatherman, Maglite and Jack Daniels

You're funny.

Seriously though, the NSA has chips in your tool, your flashlight and your bottle o' JD.

And let me guess, you used a credit card to pay for these items.

I only pay cash, use prepaid, nobody knows who I am and drink Mezkal with illegally imported worm, just to make sure.

problem is: cash is running out, so I'll have to use some creditcard, what can I say, what can I do?

Use Gold, learn Chinese, buy a sailboat (cash/gold), live on boat, no phone, no computer, no Thai Visa forum

[SoFarAndNear]

Far as I followed this it is still not clear how they do it, don't know if I should believe it or not. Only thing I'm sure of I am deamericanizing my internet behaviour, all that megacompanies need to be boycotted, just my new principle, boycott everything American. They deserve it because they are unreliable and fool the people became normal for them. Everything European is better in any case, GMX mail (german) versus Gmail, Wuala (swiss) versus Dropbox etc.

German Minister: Drop Google, Facebook To Avoid U.S. Spying

Only American brands I love are Leatherman, Maglite and Jack Daniels, bur for the internet I don't want them anymore

don't forget the jeans....."Levi's" !!! Everyone wears those.

By the way, Levi's Jeans are embossed with satellite reflecting technology and the bar code on the back label (Leather stitched) can be scanned and triangulated from outer space, thus revealing your location.....as well.

If your jeans would have the opportunity to be tracked. I can tell you NSA wants to to have access to it and they will force it. Like they force AOL, Microsoft, Apple, Yahoo to have direct access to all user database. Also big global internet service providers like are forced to give to direct un-restricted access to mirror all internet traffic.

Now make your jokes, and wait until in some years we will have a governments which are using all against us. The real problem is that you are giving away your human rights to people who now might been interested in good things. But what happens if these people change and people govern who will abuse their power. But then you can do nothing because they can fully control you and know everyone who is against them.

I do not share your doomsday forecast. Freedom and democracy will prevail, against all odds. Sure, it may take alot of work to make it happen, but trends can be reversed. To say that America is the "Evil" lurking to steal the future of democracy, is, in itself, humorous. To say that an American President is an "all powerful" entity in the United States is humorously ignorant. I suggest that people reread the American Constitution and pay closer attention to the "Checks and Balances" whereupon the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches battle each other on issues, such as privacy and individual rights, on a daily basis. I have faith in my country, and its not a "blind" faith that others insinuate. My faith is based on the reasoning that the American Government is in service to the people. Its not a perfect Government.... It is humbling to hear people, from Europe especially, to say that my Country is this all powerful evil entity bent on destroying democracy. Thats the joke. My jokes, although cavalier in appearance, are just my way of saying......."America is just full of average joe's like you. " The evil empire is not out of control.

If it is true what someone says who is currently sitting in an international transit zone and his formerly employer is "secretly" sniffing and saving "all" not only suspects I mean "ALL" data of everyone around globe of what they can get, then I would call this control of all people, by knowing all of them. The world is not only the USA. Other countries have their own Constitution and not the American Constitution and these countries have other Privacy Rights. If you don't care about your personal talks online it is your thing. But there are companies with industrial secrets, patents, and others. Fact is that the scandal doesn't mean to save public Facebook entries, it means total surveillance of complete online traffic, this means 'personal' mails, and even encryption like is SSL is under attack (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57595202-38/feds-put-heat-on-web-firms-for-master-encryption-keys/)

The Internet doesn't belong to the USA and is not under the the US Constitution.

Edited July 27, 2013 by SoFarAndNear

[Naam]

How is this news? Not only can they locate you, but they can also turn your phone on and use it as a listening device without the screen turning on. If you really want to get off the grid you have to take the battery out, or leave it at home.

"they" can also penetrate your tinfoil hat with death rays which will kill you within a fraction of a second. then "they" will feed on your heart, liver and lungs but leave the rest of your body to be devoured by terrible six-hoofed, double tailed creatures which "they" keep in their dark basements where "they" also keep the recorders which record all sounds from the phones turned into "listening devices".

renowned scientists claim that "they" are aliens from the Gamma quadrant who hate vegetarians, especially vegans. another group of scientists have found out that removing the batteries from your phone will be a futile attempt. "them" aliens beam energy directly to the phones to activate them.

[slipperylobster]

Actually, I can see where the leatherman and maglite would come in handy when your wife locks you out of the house after a night out with old Jack Daniels. I do admire you choice of quality basic survival equipment. I suppose, as doomsday approaches, I will also purchase said items. Possibly heavier on the Jack.

[slipperylobster]

Now make your jokes, and wait until in some years we will have a governments which are using all against us. The real problem is that you are giving away your human rights to people who now might been interested in good things. But what happens if these people change and people govern who will abuse their power. But then you can do nothing because they can fully control you and know everyone who is against them.

I do not share your doomsday forecast. Freedom and democracy will prevail, against all odds. Sure, it may take alot of work to make it happen, but trends can be reversed. To say that America is the "Evil" lurking to steal the future of democracy, is, in itself, humorous. To say that an American President is an "all powerful" entity in the United States is humorously ignorant. I suggest that people reread the American Constitution and pay closer attention to the "Checks and Balances" whereupon the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches battle each other on issues, such as privacy and individual rights, on a daily basis. I have faith in my country, and its not a "blind" faith that others insinuate. My faith is based on the reasoning that the American Government is in service to the people. Its not a perfect Government.... It is humbling to hear people, from Europe especially, to say that my Country is this all powerful evil entity bent on destroying democracy. Thats the joke. My jokes, although cavalier in appearance, are just my way of saying......."America is just full of average joe's like you. " The evil empire is not out of control.

If it is true what someone says who is currently sitting in an international transit zone and his formerly employer is "secretly" sniffing and saving "all" not only suspects I mean "ALL" data of everyone around globe of what they can get, then I would call this control of all people, by knowing all of them. The world is not only the USA. Other countries have their own Constitution and not the American Constitution and these countries have other Privacy Rights. If you don't care about your personal talks online it is your thing. But there are companies with industrial secrets, patents, and others. Fact is that the scandal doesn't mean to save public Facebook entries, it means total surveillance of complete online traffic, this means 'personal' mails, and even encryption like is SSL is under attack (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57595202-38/feds-put-heat-on-web-firms-for-master-encryption-keys/)

The Internet doesn't belong to the USA and is not under the the US Constitution.

You might be mildly amused when you find out how many other countries are "in bed" with the NSA. I can think of at least 4 others. Perhaps you should read some "unverified" collection activities that are done by other countries when NSA hands are tied. Do you really think America controls the world? I am honored sir, but, no thank you.... As we work for no-one, I suspect these other "Agencies" work for their own causes. Have some more coffee.

[SoFarAndNear]

Okay maybe my posts were to focused now on US. Indeed you are right other Agencies receiving also information of NSA as reward of allowing to let there citizens being spied.

There was also a situation like this in Germany around 70 years ago. To prevent the communist terror germans also gave up most privacy rights. The result is known to everyone.

The end 'simply does' not justify the means!

[lifeincnx]

Far as I followed this it is still not clear how they do it, don't know if I should believe it or not. Only thing I'm sure of I am deamericanizing my internet behaviour, all that megacompanies need to be boycotted, just my new principle, boycott everything American. They deserve it because they are unreliable and fool the people became normal for them. Everything European is better in any case, GMX mail (german) versus Gmail, Wuala (swiss) versus Dropbox etc.

German Minister: Drop Google, Facebook To Avoid U.S. Spying

Only American brands I love are Leatherman, Maglite and Jack Daniels, bur for the internet I don't want them anymore

Boycotting American mega companies huh?

Well then, I curious as to which operating system your mobile phone uses - Android, Apple, or Windows?

Small hint: these are ALL AMERICAN MEGA COMPANIES

[SoFarAndNear]

Far as I followed this it is still not clear how they do it, don't know if I should believe it or not. Only thing I'm sure of I am deamericanizing my internet behaviour, all that megacompanies need to be boycotted, just my new principle, boycott everything American. They deserve it because they are unreliable and fool the people became normal for them. Everything European is better in any case, GMX mail (german) versus Gmail, Wuala (swiss) versus Dropbox etc.

German Minister: Drop Google, Facebook To Avoid U.S. Spying

Only American brands I love are Leatherman, Maglite and Jack Daniels, bur for the internet I don't want them anymore

Boycotting American mega companies huh?

Well then, I curious as to which operating system your mobile phone uses - Android, Apple, or Windows?

Small hint: these are ALL AMERICAN MEGA COMPANIES

There are alternatives, but of course the global selling is more MEGA COMPANIES thing.

Edited July 27, 2013 by SoFarAndNear

[HerbalEd]

If the phone is powered off ... i.e., the battery is not providing any power to the phone's chips/circuits ... then this story is pure BS.

[dutchbull]

I love this ..I have iPhone ..cannot remove battery...

[GrantSmith]

I love this ..I have iPhone ..cannot remove battery...

Not in a conventional way, no. But a small screw driver to undo the screws either side of the charging socket will allow the back plates removal. This in turn gives access to the battery.

Job done.

Of course one needs to undertake this process with the wearing of a tin foil 'safety' helmet in the confines of a nuclear bunker.

[sustento]

Good to see the tin foil hat brigade are active bright and early this morning

[pomchop]

I suspect that if NSA or Obama or any human being were actually reading TV members emails or listening in on their phone conversations that they would slice their wrists from boredom.

[sunshine51]

For the paranoid...try this. Build a Faraday Shield. Yes they do work.

Here's a couple links...

http://www.technologyreview.com/view/421768/silence-smart-phones-at-thanksgiving-dinner-with-a-foldable-faraday-cage/

http://www.faradaybag.com/

Of course you can always plop your phone into a tin can that has been lined with rubber matting, properly cut of course...and replace the lid on the can.

Edited July 27, 2013 by sunshine51

[rubberduck]

For the paranoid...try this. Build a Faraday Shield. Yes they do work.

Here's a couple links...

http://www.technologyreview.com/view/421768/silence-smart-phones-at-thanksgiving-dinner-with-a-foldable-faraday-cage/

http://www.faradaybag.com/

Of course you can always plop your phone into a tin can that has been lined with rubber matting, properly cut of course...and replace the lid on the can.

No need, advanced anti-radiation wallpaper and wall paint is available in many kinds, it's used eg. at theaters for idiots who forget switching off their phone.

This is a similar wallpaper that only lets cellular and radio through.

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/05/anti-wifi-wallpaper-lets-cellular-and-radio-through/

[Dancealot]

I love this ..I have iPhone ..cannot remove battery...

At least YOU are catching on.

[rubberduck]

boycott everything American.

except....

Leatherman, Maglite and Jack Daniels

You're funny.

Seriously though, the NSA has chips in your tool, your flashlight and your bottle o' JD.

And let me guess, you used a credit card to pay for these items.

No idea whats funny but it's possible you don't follow worldnews etc. some hero named Edward Snowden recently learned the world about the scale of illegal espionage by the Americans.

Some are from the "I have nothing to hide" brigade and refuse understanding the big picture, I pity their grandchildren for having such an ignorant granddad who did not care about their basic human rights freedom and privacy. I also pity Americans who truly believe in the 'Land of the free' hoax and being mislead by controlled massmedia.

I don't wish my grandchildren to live in some horrormovie in which people are degenerated to enslaved zombies controlled by grids, corrupt governments and industry. If you don't mind.

[hawker9000]

The US government IS going too far WRT its domestic surveillance activities, and it's downright comical that there's a guy being pursued by US "state security" services, for whistleblowing, about US collection activities against its own citizens, seeking refuge in Russia, of all places. Too true. You couldn't make something like that up. But Obama is the organizer-in-chief; we're talking serious cult here. What Obama wants, Obama gets. So whatever your views about who started it or when or how it started, it's certainly not going to stop while he's in office; that's for darned sure.

HOWEVER

The US government is hardly the only government in the world that exercises this kind of oversight against its own citizens. Pile on if it amuses you, but this is what governments with too much power DO. Trying to limit these powers once a govt has them is probably hopeless. The question is - how do governments GET these powers in the first place, even in the face of national constitutions/charters/framworks which expressly and forcefully prohibited them, and institute meticulous checks & balances to avoid them? Ans: the PEOPLE allow it, sit idly by while it happens, or even demand it! But WHY do people freely and even enthusiastically consent to give up their freedoms so government can have so much power, esp. where once that freedom was so deeply cherished? What is it (or maybe one should ask, how much is it) that they expect to get in return that justifies this surrender of hard-won freedom?

Some among us weren't very careful about what they wished for... (And the rest were simply outvoted.)

Edited July 27, 2013 by hawker9000

[Somtamnication]

Europeans have had their share of bad leaders, I recall....

Exactly! That is probably one reason why we are so reluctant to give in to this privacy invasion disguised as anti-terror security.

I do believe the vast majority of Americans would agree. Never lose the Moral High ground...that is what history teaches.

The vast majority of the Americans could care less. The ones I talked to asked if the prism thingy will affect their bottom line. I said, well, no, it affects your privacy. They could care less, unless it hits them in the wallet!!!!!!

[DIMENSIO]

iif you like technology, you have no privacy using it. Accept that.

Mobile phone is the number one way of proving that you were at the place
where the crime happened. For any phone number telecom system gives last telephone tower
and from that data produces a a 50m or less location against time.
Only way to safety a phone is to put it in a
faraday cage (metal net or aluminium wrap)


test this for yourself:

get a set of very large speakers, put the phone on the cable and ring it,
it will make a distinctive sound in the speakers when it connects to the
network.

Next take the battery out and leave it, sure enough you hear the same sound
when it next 'checks in' at the telephone mast.

- like computers have a cmos battery, phones have a backup battery that

lasts days keeping the clock up to date and checking in as it does not power the display etc.

Edited July 28, 2013 by DIMENSIO

[hawker9000]

It's not exactly that Americans could care less. They care............"some"...... The US essentially has a 2-party system, and voters have to decide what key issue they're going to vote their pick of the two based on. Other parties can be spoliers, but the average voter really can only choose from between the two major parties, and that boils down to where the two parties stand on whatever the issue of most concern (or most hyped by the media) happens to be. Concern over government privacy intrusions has so far never been at the top of that list. The economy, bailouts, stimulus, benefits, taxes, union power - are now the things getting presidents & senators elected. The House of Representatives is a different story (elected from individual districts rather than at large) - and so you tend to hear more of these debates over privacy occuring there proving that lots of Americans care quite deeply. But a conservatively originated, or even bipartisan bill in the House that might curtail some of Obama's "regulatory" power dies a quick & usually very quiet death (most of the major media never mentions them) in the democratically-controlled Senate.