Bitcoins banned in Thailand

[DiamondKing]

A Bitcoin will be worth $500 USD after the next Cyprus.

As I said, "a lot of hype but not too much in the way of facts".

Love reading all these know all know nothing posters LOL

Bitcoin is now at $853.00 USD per Bitcoin and some of the smartest and biggest names in business accept it such as Donald Trump if you would like to buy a condo in Trump Towers NY or Richard Branson if you want to buy a ticket to space plus even Subway is now starting to accept it as is a college out of Cyprus where you can pay your tuition fees with Bitcoin.

ATM's are now being distributed and POS systems installed in Merchants shops so you can pay with your smart phone.

Digital Currency is here and congrats to those of us who have some because $855.00 per bitcoin is peanuts to where this is going.

All those uninformed posters that are talking out of their asses why not take a few hours and research it and then you will see that this is an excellent time to get in ESPECIALLY when on moday the US senate hearings on Bitcoin were very positive and the outlook from the government is very promising.

I personally know Bitcoin Millionaires who just a few months ago were no wealthy and now they are Millionaires in just a few months, in May Bitcoin was $13 it has been as high as $900 per coin you do the math.

Bitcoin I project will hit $1000 per coin before Christmas and from there its just going to go from strength to Strengh as more and more people start buying it and merchants and business's accepting it.

Dont put your life savings in it but if you have some spare coin to invest on a very volatile investment I suggest you do it because even at todays price of over $800 its still a good buy for where it is predicted to be in a few years.

[oakweb]

Agreed! not something to put your life savings into, but if you have some to invest it's worth it. I just started hosting miners for some close friends. They are happy to have their miners in a data center with 99.99% uptime and perfectly cooled.

[kawaiimomo]

Amen to that, DiamonKind. Well put.

I have some questions for the more experienced traders (or just buyers) here. I have been buying at bahtcoin.com but they are most of the time out of stock and it sells pretty fast when they replenish their stock. Localbitcoins.com is safer and usually faster, but the price can't compete with the one at bahtcoin.com. I also registered in almost all of the big and medium exchanges but all of them require verification with a scan of your utility bills. So anyone was able to get verified with a bill with the address in Thai? I asked to some of them and they required a notarised transcription (no idea either on where to do that kind of certified translation).

Again, where are you guys buying? My money is in THB and in local banks, I don't want to pay the fees and waste the time with international transfers. Any fast and cheap option for people like me who want to buy?

[beb]

Amen to that, DiamonKind. Well put.

I have some questions for the more experienced traders (or just buyers) here. I have been buying at bahtcoin.com but they are most of the time out of stock and it sells pretty fast when they replenish their stock. Localbitcoins.com is safer and usually faster, but the price can't compete with the one at bahtcoin.com. I also registered in almost all of the big and medium exchanges but all of them require verification with a scan of your utility bills. So anyone was able to get verified with a bill with the address in Thai? I asked to some of them and they required a notarised transcription (no idea either on where to do that kind of certified translation).

Again, where are you guys buying? My money is in THB and in local banks, I don't want to pay the fees and waste the time with international transfers. Any fast and cheap option for people like me who want to buy?

I don't understand why you would say localbitcoins is safer than bahtcoin because bahtcoin has never given me reason to worry. The recent lack of supply is very new and I hope they are able to get more. They do pay very low for btc so maybe they'll have to offer more reasonable prices to replenish their supply. I'd be much more wary of buying from strangers on localbitcoins. But they do have an escrow service so I guess that provides you with some protection.

Otherwise I use a service overseas. i don't know of other local services but maybe there are some you can find with a google search.

[kawaiimomo]

While I never had any problem with them, nothing really would stop them to receive the bank transfer and don't transfer the bitcoins if they wanted to scam you. Again, they always did the transfer fast in my case.

Of course, the main difference with localbitcoins if the escrow system. I never had any trouble there, although I always deal with the people with good reputation. I guess if you had a problem and you could demonstrate you did the transfer, they would release the bitcoins from escrow to you (or I would like to think that).

I have been searching for more Thai based exchanges and there are extremely few and very pricey. I believe there is a good opportunity for opening a local exchange if you can keep the prices competitive. I would be doing that myself if I had the funds, but I only have the technical knowledge :-P

[beb]

Good luck in your search.

[brit1984]

A Bitcoin will be worth $500 USD after the next Cyprus.

As I said, "a lot of hype but not too much in the way of facts".

Love reading all these know all know nothing posters LOL

Bitcoin is now at $853.00 USD per Bitcoin and some of the smartest and biggest names in business accept it such as Donald Trump if you would like to buy a condo in Trump Towers NY or Richard Branson if you want to buy a ticket to space plus even Subway is now starting to accept it as is a college out of Cyprus where you can pay your tuition fees with Bitcoin.

ATM's are now being distributed and POS systems installed in Merchants shops so you can pay with your smart phone.

Digital Currency is here and congrats to those of us who have some because $855.00 per bitcoin is peanuts to where this is going.

All those uninformed posters that are talking out of their asses why not take a few hours and research it and then you will see that this is an excellent time to get in ESPECIALLY when on moday the US senate hearings on Bitcoin were very positive and the outlook from the government is very promising.

I personally know Bitcoin Millionaires who just a few months ago were no wealthy and now they are Millionaires in just a few months, in May Bitcoin was $13 it has been as high as $900 per coin you do the math.

Bitcoin I project will hit $1000 per coin before Christmas and from there its just going to go from strength to Strengh as more and more people start buying it and merchants and business's accepting it.

Dont put your life savings in it but if you have some spare coin to invest on a very volatile investment I suggest you do it because even at todays price of over $800 its still a good buy for where it is predicted to be in a few years.

it is certainly an interesting asset and potentially a fun investment (or bet) if you have space in your portfolio for an "asset" for which the timing and magnitude of the capital gain (which could be very positive or negative) is almost impossible to predict, and which will produce ZERO yield while you wait for that capital gain (that may never materialize)

if and when bitcoin becomes more widely accepted (and used) as a form of payment for online transactions, and (more importantly) if and when its volatility stabilizes, and other perceived and real obstacles are overcome, to an extent that savers (not speculators) view it as a real and safe store of wealth, then the underlying "value" of bitcoin will obviously increase- BUT whether such a scenario results in an increase in the price also depends how the current price compares to the current value

in the context that the current price is equivalent to ~10 BILLION USD for all the bitcoins currently in circulation, it is not obvious to me on what basis anyone can feel confident that the current or future underlying value is so much higher that the price will continue to increase, at least in the medium term once the speculators have cashed out and reinvested in other assets (maybe tulips)

[beb]

There are no guarantees on the future of bitcoin just as there are none on anything. If we had a crystal ball then we'd all do the same thing and wouldn't have to debate or try to anticipate things. For somebody like me, the technology is what I believe in and if this does become as important and valuable for so many people in the future as I believe it will, then the value of bitcoin will be reflected by how it is spread across the number of users in the world.

So there are real risks just like any investment (how's your gold doing right now?) and some people are betting that this will work. There are speculators who have no idea how bitcoin works and probably never will go to the trouble of understanding it. But that doesn't in any way invalidate the technology.

Hopefully we can agree that nobody knows the future. But we'll all know soon enough.

[oakweb]

Yes, Tulips.. Ponzi.. etc, everyone points to those but what most don't realize when they say that is, Bitcoin is already in use, and growing. Not just as a gamble, investment, but as a real tool that works for people all over the world. The people that use it are growing every day, and many of the bitcoin users are not going anywhere and steadily growing.

So the question is, do you think it's just going to blow up? At some point just vanish? For me, I think it's not possible, the ball is in play and it's going to be there for a while.

I got my hardhat on, and I'll be mining 14 coins a day by March.

[brit1984]

bitcoins continued existence is not sufficient to justify the current price (~10 BILLION USD total)

think of it like this... there are 2 "holders" of these bitcoins: speculators and savers... to estimate the current underlying value (excluding speculation) you need to estimate the percentage of bitcoins held by savers (or the total value of savings currently held in bitcoins)

given the volatility of the market price to date, it is hard to imagine there are any savers in there but lets conservatively estimate savers are currently holding ~1 BILLION USD of bitcoins (my estimate would be much lower)... on this basis speculators account for the other 90% of the current price and hence the underlying value would need to increase by 10x (~1,000%) just to justify the current price

for the kind of returns "investors" are expecting (and should expect given the risk profile and opportunity cost of holding non cash yielding assets for an unpredictable period of time while waiting for an uncertain capital gain/loss), in the medium term (excluding the effect of speculation) the underlying value (i.e. savings held in bitcoins) would need to increase by +100x (~10,000%)

this is not impossible but i don't think it is as obvious as many speculators think and the sooner they realize this, the sooner some/all will pull out, and the price could drop towards the underlying value very suddenly- and this drop in price will also negatively impact the underlying value as savers lose faith in the asset

[oakweb]

Brit1984, it's a global currency that could be widely used in online transactions, e.g. Paypal, Credit Cards etc. The chance for growth is unimaginable at this point. +100x is nothing

There are more than "2" holders, there are also the people that spend bitcoins! Read this http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/11/12/bitcoin-needs-to-scale-by-a-factor-of-1000-to-compete-with-visa-heres-how-to-do-it/

Bitcoin does more than 75,000 transactions per day https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions When it becomes more widely accepted it will skyrocket.

I don't think you are an online retailer, but I am. I've been selling goods on the Internet since 1994, and I can tell you that it's still not easy as it should be. Bitcoin will make this happen. In addition the technology that also can come from it is just starting to be discovered.

I used to build/sell computers I built back in 1994, I had to explain to everyone when the Internet started how important it was they get it for their computer. Some customers would explain they don't need it, they have a Encyclopedia CD, and just use it for word processing. They sometimes also explained none of their friends have an email or even know what one is. And one customer in particular was certain it would never take off, I'll never forget him. His arguments to me, also did not make much sense.

If Bitcoin can get the killer app for processing online, and on phones, there will be no stopping it. And as I see it, it's happening already. My site will begin accepting Bitcoins next week.

[brit1984]

the transactions costs (and volatility risk) of converting from normal currency into bitcoins to process a transaction and then back out at the other end are no less than any costs of other payment methods (by the way my understanding is that 75,000/day also includes people trading into and out of bitcoins, not just buying goods/services)

the VALUE of bitcoins as a currency comes from people who will HOLD bitcoins - for these people using the bitcoins to process transactions would be much more logical in comparison to other payment options available today (BUT only in the case where buyer protection is not needed and only until other payment options improve) but it would not be worth holding bitcoins just because you might process some transactions using bitcoins later so the underlying value comes ONLY from its perceived quality as a store of value

excluding the speculators, the only holders of bitcoins for any length of time will be savers, and the value of these savings would need to increase by thousands (or tens of thousands) of percent to justify the current price (or to match any rational investors' return expectations/ requirements)

it is not impossible that perception of bitcoins will be transformed over time (and in spite of the inevitable reputation damage caused by the exit of the speculators) but the point i'm trying to make is that this is not the no-brainer investment story that many "investors" think they are subscribing to (and risking portions of their wealth), not only because the expected capital gain is uncertain, but also the timing of any capital gain (given the current delta between price and current value) and the opportunity cost of holding non cash-yield assets for this unknown time period

anyway i'm sure you will enjoy the ride as it's an interesting asset (even for me as a non-investor) and (as i have nothing to gain/ lose either way) i wish you good luck and hope you will not forget about us fellow forum members when you make your first million.... in bitcoins!

[DiamondKing]

Well Yesterday was the first day that BITCOIN did more dollar volume than PAYPAL. if that does not wake people up then nothing will.

admittingly one of those bitcoin transactions was for 145 Million dollars which of course you could never do on paypal (without government interferance) which is why paypal and all others will be left behind as Bitcoin takes over and allows people to transfer their money peer to peer for basically free of transaction fees

[ukrules]

I bought some SRC a while ago (SecureCoin) which went up from 5 cents to about 50 cents over the space of a few months and it looks like it's just getting started.

In my opinion there's more money to be made out of the 'alts' than the original Bitcoin these days. This was the same earlier in the year, I think I made more buy purchasing Litecoin and PPCoin at the right time than I ever did from Bitcoin.

I think of some of these alternates as 'Bitcoin minus 3 or 4 years'. Most of them are utter crap though, it looks like only a few will ever make any decent return.

If you an buy a 'coin' for between 5-50 cents it has a lot more chance of doubling in value several times than something that costs $100's. Of course it also has more chance of halving too.

[beb]

I bought some SRC a while ago (SecureCoin) which went up from 5 cents to about 50 cents over the space of a few months and it looks like it's just getting started.

In my opinion there's more money to be made out of the 'alts' than the original Bitcoin these days. This was the same earlier in the year, I think I made more buy purchasing Litecoin and PPCoin at the right time than I ever did from Bitcoin.

I think of some of these alternates as 'Bitcoin minus 3 or 4 years'. Most of them are utter crap though, it looks like only a few will ever make any decent return.

If you an buy a 'coin' for between 5-50 cents it has a lot more chance of doubling in value several times than something that costs $100's. Of course it also has more chance of halving too.

Hmm, the price of bitcoins is relative. You can buy any fraction of a bitcoin you want. The increase in value will be the same percentage. People who think bitcoin is "too expensive" simply don't understand the concept. As time goes on, the standard unit of bitcoin will probably become milibitcoin or something else. A single bitcoin will simply be some very large amount of the standard unit.

In any case, there may be alt coins that do catch on but a lot will fall away so good luck determining which make sense.

bb

[farang000999]

Well Yesterday was the first day that BITCOIN did more dollar volume than PAYPAL. if that does not wake people up then nothing will.

admittingly one of those bitcoin transactions was for 145 Million dollars which of course you could never do on paypal (without government interferance) which is why paypal and all others will be left behind as Bitcoin takes over and allows people to transfer their money peer to peer for basically free of transaction fees

And also free of bank security and they can only spend those bitcoins without transaction fees if they are purchasing things not priced in "fiat". And if your argument is that one day Amazon will start accepting Bitcoin all the governments of the world have to do is make that illegal which they would obviously do. So its ceiling is that of a black market currency.

What should it be worth? Basically impossible to theorize as it is just supply and demand and it will trade very very heavily on momentum. That is why you have seen it lose 90% a couple of times and then come roaring back.

[beb]

Well Yesterday was the first day that BITCOIN did more dollar volume than PAYPAL. if that does not wake people up then nothing will.

admittingly one of those bitcoin transactions was for 145 Million dollars which of course you could never do on paypal (without government interferance) which is why paypal and all others will be left behind as Bitcoin takes over and allows people to transfer their money peer to peer for basically free of transaction fees

And also free of bank security and they can only spend those bitcoins without transaction fees if they are purchasing things not priced in "fiat". And if your argument is that one day Amazon will start accepting Bitcoin all the governments of the world have to do is make that illegal which they would obviously do. So its ceiling is that of a black market currency.

What should it be worth? Basically impossible to theorize as it is just supply and demand and it will trade very very heavily on momentum. That is why you have seen it lose 90% a couple of times and then come roaring back.

You're making assertions that are simply not backed by facts. In fact, your premise is based on assumptions that are outdated and you would know that if you were keeping up with current developments in the bitcoin world. You should probably take some time to read recent news articles concerning the subject.

[feest monty]

Well Yesterday was the first day that BITCOIN did more dollar volume than PAYPAL. if that does not wake people up then nothing will.

admittingly one of those bitcoin transactions was for 145 Million dollars which of course you could never do on paypal (without government interferance) which is why paypal and all others will be left behind as Bitcoin takes over and allows people to transfer their money peer to peer for basically free of transaction fees

more info http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/11/23/heres-who-probably-did-that-massive-150000000-bitcoin-transaction/

[pancakeman]

And also free of bank security and they can only spend those bitcoins without transaction fees if they are purchasing things not priced in "fiat".

This is not how the transaction fees work at all (how would the bitcoin network know, or care if your items are priced in fiat or bitcoin...)

The transaction fees are an incentive for miners to include your transaction in the blockchain. The details of your transaction are added up to give you a processing priority. The highest priority transactions would be:

- Large transaction amount

- Large fee

- Old coins (have not recently been moved around)

(This transaction would be confirmed in the next block)

Then the lowest possible priority would be:

- Small transaction amount

- No fee

- Unconfirmed coins

Most miners will have their configurations set to default, so will look at this priority and include all the transactions above a certain priority threshold. So if your transaction is very low priority it may take a long long time to get confirmed because no miners will include it. Basically you'd have to wait for either a good Samaritan miner to come along and include all the low priority transactions, or for your transaction to sit until the priority increases enough over time.

There are modifications in the works to allow for increase the transaction fee after the fact, so that if you get a stuck low priority transaction you can increase the fee on it to increase the priority.

[oakweb]

I think Pancakeman is a fellow miner!

great post

[DiamondKing]

Well Yesterday was the first day that BITCOIN did more dollar volume than PAYPAL. if that does not wake people up then nothing will.

admittingly one of those bitcoin transactions was for 145 Million dollars which of course you could never do on paypal (without government interferance) which is why paypal and all others will be left behind as Bitcoin takes over and allows people to transfer their money peer to peer for basically free of transaction fees

And also free of bank security and they can only spend those bitcoins without transaction fees if they are purchasing things not priced in "fiat". And if your argument is that one day Amazon will start accepting Bitcoin all the governments of the world have to do is make that illegal which they would obviously do. So its ceiling is that of a black market currency.

What should it be worth? Basically impossible to theorize as it is just supply and demand and it will trade very very heavily on momentum. That is why you have seen it lose 90% a couple of times and then come roaring back.

Well my friend BAIDU which is China's version of Amazon has already started to accept Bitcoin and as for Governments banning it that based on last weeks US senate panel hearing on Bitcoin did not indicate it would even consider banning digital currency, in fact it was a very positive hearing where the Governement agencies saw the value in the digital currencies. They agreed no regulation would be immediately implemented but they would keep on monitoring bitcoin but overall it was very very positive coming out of Washington.

[farang000999]

And also free of bank security and they can only spend those bitcoins without transaction fees if they are purchasing things not priced in "fiat".

This is not how the transaction fees work at all (how would the bitcoin network know, or care if your items are priced in fiat or bitcoin...)

The transaction fees are an incentive for miners to include your transaction in the blockchain. The details of your transaction are added up to give you a processing priority. The highest priority transactions would be:

- Large transaction amount

- Large fee

- Old coins (have not recently been moved around)

(This transaction would be confirmed in the next block)

Then the lowest possible priority would be:

- Small transaction amount

- No fee

- Unconfirmed coins

Most miners will have their configurations set to default, so will look at this priority and include all the transactions above a certain priority threshold. So if your transaction is very low priority it may take a long long time to get confirmed because no miners will include it. Basically you'd have to wait for either a good Samaritan miner to come along and include all the low priority transactions, or for your transaction to sit until the priority increases enough over time.

There are modifications in the works to allow for increase the transaction fee after the fact, so that if you get a stuck low priority transaction you can increase the fee on it to increase the priority.

Try reading what I wrote again:

"And also free of bank security and they can only spend those bitcoins without transaction fees if they are purchasing things not priced in "fiat"."

Buying some thing priced in bitcoins with bitcoins = no fee.

Buying something priced in USD with bitcoins = fee.

As for the US gov embracing Bitcoin and allowing Amazon to except it as payment, just because it is small now and under the radar does not mean that they aren't going to wake up in the future. You have to file paper work just to get a money order for $2k and you think the US gov in the age of terrorism and going after Swiss offshore banking will embrace Bitcoin? Doubtful.

Every post is something along the lines of ---- "You don't understand Bitcoin, blah blah blah blah", completely reminiscent of the gold bug and their warnings of hyperinflation and end of "fiat".

[beb]

And also free of bank security and they can only spend those bitcoins without transaction fees if they are purchasing things not priced in "fiat".

This is not how the transaction fees work at all (how would the bitcoin network know, or care if your items are priced in fiat or bitcoin...)

The transaction fees are an incentive for miners to include your transaction in the blockchain. The details of your transaction are added up to give you a processing priority. The highest priority transactions would be:

- Large transaction amount

- Large fee

- Old coins (have not recently been moved around)

(This transaction would be confirmed in the next block)

Then the lowest possible priority would be:

- Small transaction amount

- No fee

- Unconfirmed coins

Most miners will have their configurations set to default, so will look at this priority and include all the transactions above a certain priority threshold. So if your transaction is very low priority it may take a long long time to get confirmed because no miners will include it. Basically you'd have to wait for either a good Samaritan miner to come along and include all the low priority transactions, or for your transaction to sit until the priority increases enough over time.

There are modifications in the works to allow for increase the transaction fee after the fact, so that if you get a stuck low priority transaction you can increase the fee on it to increase the priority.

Try reading what I wrote again:

"And also free of bank security and they can only spend those bitcoins without transaction fees if they are purchasing things not priced in "fiat"."

Buying some thing priced in bitcoins with bitcoins = no fee.

Buying something priced in USD with bitcoins = fee.

As for the US gov embracing Bitcoin and allowing Amazon to except it as payment, just because it is small now and under the radar does not mean that they aren't going to wake up in the future. You have to file paper work just to get a money order for $2k and you think the US gov in the age of terrorism and going after Swiss offshore banking will embrace Bitcoin? Doubtful.

Every post is something along the lines of ---- "You don't understand Bitcoin, blah blah blah blah", completely reminiscent of the gold bug and their warnings of hyperinflation and end of "fiat".

The problem is that...wait for it...you don't understand bitcoin. You keep coming here and throwing things against the wall but nothing sticks because you're not prepared to really discuss with with any depth.

There are plenty of things that concern me about the future of bitcoin like ease of use and security and if you were more informed then maybe you'd be bringing those issues up. But bitcoin is still in the development stage and these problems will hopefully be resolved with 3rd parties who see a need and fill it.

I can tell that you're frustrated because people aren't recognizing your points but frankly they aren't valid. Again, you really should, if you want to discuss this topic, learn about it first.

[farang000999]

i would recommend maybe picking up a beginners guide to macroeconomics so you can get a better idea of how an economy works and the function of money in an economy. i would also recommend paul krugmans blog as he talks about money often and has made a few posts about bitcoin - which of course you will dismiss as him not knowing enough about bitcoin... like i said this is gold 2.0 all naysayers "don't understand".

[farang000999]

http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-is-a-currency-for-clowns-2013-11

more people not understanding bitcoin.

[farang000999]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/15/opinion/krugman-the-antisocial-network.html

[beb]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/15/opinion/krugman-the-antisocial-network.html

You're doing some furious googling. Don't sprain your typing fingers.

[beb]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/15/opinion/krugman-the-antisocial-network.html

You're doing some furious googling. Don't sprain your typing fingers.

Excuse me, finger.

[pancakeman]

And also free of bank security and they can only spend those bitcoins without transaction fees if they are purchasing things not priced in "fiat".

This is not how the transaction fees work at all (how would the bitcoin network know, or care if your items are priced in fiat or bitcoin...)

The transaction fees are an incentive for miners to include your transaction in the blockchain. The details of your transaction are added up to give you a processing priority. The highest priority transactions would be:

- Large transaction amount

- Large fee

- Old coins (have not recently been moved around)

(This transaction would be confirmed in the next block)

Then the lowest possible priority would be:

- Small transaction amount

- No fee

- Unconfirmed coins

Most miners will have their configurations set to default, so will look at this priority and include all the transactions above a certain priority threshold. So if your transaction is very low priority it may take a long long time to get confirmed because no miners will include it. Basically you'd have to wait for either a good Samaritan miner to come along and include all the low priority transactions, or for your transaction to sit until the priority increases enough over time.

There are modifications in the works to allow for increase the transaction fee after the fact, so that if you get a stuck low priority transaction you can increase the fee on it to increase the priority.

Try reading what I wrote again:

"And also free of bank security and they can only spend those bitcoins without transaction fees if they are purchasing things not priced in "fiat"."

Buying some thing priced in bitcoins with bitcoins = no fee.

Buying something priced in USD with bitcoins = fee.

I just explained bitcoin transaction fees at length, but you seem to have not even read it at all.

The fees depend on the factors that I mentioned, not on how the merchant prices their products.

[farang000999]

No, I was saying that it costs money (fees) to convert bitcoin into and out of fiat money.

Bitcoin will only work if there is wide spread acceptance into mainstream society.

for example. say i am thai and work in USA and need to send money home. no reason to buy bit coin that does not save me anything unless i am doing something illegal to earn my money and cant legally send it without raising flags.

most of Bitcoin's value comes from its anonymity, it is just that it serves little purpose for regular people to use.