Toyota or Honda Hybrids...

[Ace of Pop]

Will they run on E85.?.

[siamdivers]

Honda says yes, and yes to E20 as well.

[phupaman]

Hi

Ace mine runs on gasohol91.

phupaman

[TomTao]

Hi All.

        First of all my answer to Ace of Pop,I bought the car new on august 3 last year it has now done8,800

km all of them seamless. Siam divers when you start the car and pull away as long as you do not hit the gas to the floor a small light comes on indicating EV electric vehicle, if you hit the gas hard the ligt goes out and you are using petrol but using the car normally around Khonkaen Cityjust following traffic at 50-60 kph90% of the time you are using EV . When we have done small road trips I found that normally she runs at 65-70 kph but if you put your foot down to overtake etcthe EV light goes out and comes on again at about 65 kph.

I have lived in Thailand7 years and have had 5 new cars before I brought thisCamryI had a ford fiesta It was a    nice small car it went really well but it was only doing about 10 klms to a litre, As far as they do not sell well ,I dont really careI have lost money on all my cars in Thailand ,When I had my fiesta i was nearly getting rid of it the localNissan dealer offered me400,000 BT agaist me going to buy a new Teana My fiesta only had 3,200 KMS on the clockat the time and 5 months old..I will keep my Camry it is the best car I have had in Thai,and if you buy one Siamdivers I am sure you will like it,The Toyota dealer we use in Khonkaen is First Class.

phupaman,

 

I always had a theoretical issue about Hybrids. Given Thailand is so hot, most people use the aircon. How does the exclusively electric motor function with aircon putting its drag on it in city, especially during the long idling sessions? Does the gasoline motor pick up after a certain time of idling when the batteries are almost depleted?

Before I left Australia Toyota had just introduced a solar panel on the roof of the Prius to power the aircon, I can't remember if it was on all models or just the higher end model, I saw the solar panel on a Prius that was on show in Bangkok last year, but only on the more expensive model. The solar panel takes the burden off the battery which means the charge lasts longer and fuel efficiency is improved.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[culicine]

If they are lithium batteries it must cost a lot of money to change them as we all know you will have the change the whole lot when the times comes.

A friend was interested in a hybrid camry a few years back. He ended up buying a teana because toyota wouldn't / couldn't tell him how much the batteries cost. Would love to know If they fail after the warranty period the owner will need to pay for new ones I'd imagine.

[rchapstick]

There really is an amazing amount of misinformation in this thread, as well as a lack of response to the OP's question.

While both Honda and Toyota have "hybrids", they are no the same technology. Honda utilizes what is called a "series" hybrid, which means that the car cannot run on electric power alone. Conversely, Toyota's hybirds can run on electric power alone for short distances below ~ 60kph. It is rumored that the next gen Jazz hybrid will employ the same tech as Toyota. Both technologies "assist" the conventional engine, giving you greater horsepower and acceleration. This is why a 2.5 liter Hybrid Camry has better acceleration than a standard 2.5 liter Camry, and at the same time gives better fuel economy.

Both cars use regnerative braking and coasting to capture kinetic energy. This is how the battery recharges. You do NOT plug them in. There are so-called plug-in hybirds, but they are not sold in Thailand. The battery chemistry on both Honda and Toyota is Nickel Metal Hydride, not Lithium.

Both cars turn off the engine when coasting and stopped, and use electricity gained thru regeneration to run the AC. If you stand idle for a long period of time .... say 3-5 minutes .... then the engine will kick in to run the AC. A hotter climate will use the AC more than a cooler climate, and this will affect energy consumption in both hybrids and in conventional cars. But unless you spend a lot of time idling relative to moving, then the hybird gives a huge advantage, especially in city driving.

Both technologies give better gas mileage than conventional gasoline engines. Toyota's tech gives better fuel economy, than Honda's. Both technologies have proven to be exceptionally reliable. Batteries typically last 600,000 km or more. Probably longer than the engine.

At present, I think the Prius is very overpriced for what you get, relative to, say, an Altis. I think the Jazz and Civic Hybrids are good values relative to their conventional siblings.

[Ace of Pop]

.................................................................................................................................................................................................................As most of us Old Folks know,the Milmans Electric Powered Float got to 20 MPH faster than a 3.8Jag.so nothing new there.The Battery Replace Issue hasnt been answered, and thats aCriticall Issue.

[siamdivers]

Thanks, rechapstick, for the clarification. I have to admit I have not done that much research online and need to do that, but was hoping that this forum could give me a little personal insight on the cars in Thailand which it has to a certain extent. But no one who actually owns a Honda hybrid has responded. Maybe they are too new and it's better to wait and see.

I didn't know that the Honda and Toyota technologies were different, that's very interesting. Maybe explains why they are cheaper than the Toyotas. Pruis are 1.2 million, Camry 1.7 million compared to Jazz 780,000 and City, 1,150,000. The Camry seems to be in the Accord category then. And no hybrid on the Accord yet.

I was discussing Toyota vs Honda with some friends last night and the problem here in Phuket is that in our experience, Toyota, despite having built a brand-new service center, basically sucks on their service. You have to make an appointment two weeks in advance, the staff doesn't care, doesn't call you when there is a change in the order and in general are not well trained. This may be just the Phuket branch and not Thailand in general, but they sucked 9 years ago when I talked to them about a car and they suck now according to friends who have Toyotas. This is a side issue, but it's important when considering a purchase and at least in Phuket, Honda wins hands-down in support and service.

But a little bummed to hear that the technology is not the same between the two brands.

And I think the battery replacement has been answered. If it's designed to run 600,000 km then that's more than the life of the car so it's moot.

Thanks again for all of your answers. Keep them coming if you have more info. Any satisfied Civic or Jazz hybrid owners out there? Maybe, as I said, it's just too soon.

John

[stevenl]

Thanks, rechapstick, for the clarification. I have to admit I have not done that much research online and need to do that, but was hoping that this forum could give me a little personal insight on the cars in Thailand which it has to a certain extent. But no one who actually owns a Honda hybrid has responded. Maybe they are too new and it's better to wait and see.

I didn't know that the Honda and Toyota technologies were different, that's very interesting. Maybe explains why they are cheaper than the Toyotas. Pruis are 1.2 million, Camry 1.7 million compared to Jazz 780,000 and City, 1,150,000. The Camry seems to be in the Accord category then. And no hybrid on the Accord yet.

I was discussing Toyota vs Honda with some friends last night and the problem here in Phuket is that in our experience, Toyota, despite having built a brand-new service center, basically sucks on their service. You have to make an appointment two weeks in advance, the staff doesn't care, doesn't call you when there is a change in the order and in general are not well trained. This may be just the Phuket branch and not Thailand in general, but they sucked 9 years ago when I talked to them about a car and they suck now according to friends who have Toyotas. This is a side issue, but it's important when considering a purchase and at least in Phuket, Honda wins hands-down in support and service.

But a little bummed to hear that the technology is not the same between the two brands.

And I think the battery replacement has been answered. If it's designed to run 600,000 km then that's more than the life of the car so it's moot.

Thanks again for all of your answers. Keep them coming if you have more info. Any satisfied Civic or Jazz hybrid owners out there? Maybe, as I said, it's just too soon.

John

There are a few different Toyoya centers on Phuket. Check out the one on Thepkassatri Road close to Phuket Town, much better than the big one on the Bypass/Thepkassatri intersection. Or the one on ChaoFa Road West in town, located much more conveniently for anybody living in Chalong-Rawai-Kata etc., but also there the sales sucks.

Edited August 3, 2013 by stevenl

[IMHO]

Why have you excluded the Prius from your shopping list?

http://www.toyota.co.th/en/product-detail.php?model=prius&opt=grades

For that matter, why no mention of the CR-Z?

http://honda.co.th/en/crz

Indeed if it's all about going hybrid for the sake of saving taxes (or kidding yourself you're saving the world), you may as well also consider the Cayenne

http://pap.porsche.com/thailand_en/models/cayenne/cayenne-s-hybrid/ or Panamera: http://pap.porsche.com/thailand_en/models/panamera/panamera-s-e-hybrid/ and indeed all of the BMW Hybrids:

http://www.bmw.co.th/th/en/newvehicles/3series/sedan_active_hybrid/2011/showroom/

http://www.bmw.co.th/th/en/newvehicles/5series/sedan_active_hybrid/2011/showroom/

http://www.bmw.co.th/th/en/newvehicles/7series/sedan_active_hybrid/2012/showroom/

And hopefully this also puts to rest any stories that batteries have major problems in TH, or AC doesn't work etc etc

Edited August 3, 2013 by IMHO

[siamdivers]

Thanks for that, will read them later today. I have not excluded anything, but I can't afford a BMW here so that's out. Yes, deluding myself about saving the world, correct, that's part of it, though I know the reality behind it. The manufacturing process cancels out any of the carbon savings, I know that. But it's still kind of intriguing. I like technology, so I guess that is the biggest reason I am looking. Nerdiness.

I have only excluded Toyota because of the crappy service here in Phuket. I'm sure they are great in Bangkok, but they suck here. But thanks for the post about the other Toyota dealership stevenl. Where is that exactly on Chao Fa West? I haven't seen it. Is it near the Honda dealership or closer to the Central intersection? I have been to the original one out towards Supercheap, they suck. I have been to the new on on the bypass by Koh Kaew, they suck worse but have more space to suck there.

I would like a Prius for sure, but if I can't get decent service then it's not worth it. Until Toyota gets it's stuff together in Phuket, I'll stay away from it. My buddy has a Toyota and he ends up taking it to a private garage rather than the dealership because they suck so bad.

So, we're all clear that Toyota sucks in Phuket, right? Just in case I didn't make myself plain.

If someone has a different experience, please tell me.

[stevenl]

Should be Chao Fa East, not West, sorry. Toyota there is opposite the water pump and water tank plce, new intersection (well new, maybe 4-5 years ago?).

And if it makes you feel better, Toyota Phuket service is much better than Nissan Phuket service.

[siamdivers]

Oh, I know where you mean, but I have not seen the Toyota place there. Funny. Anyway, thanks, will go check it out. Toyota's website doesn't even list that location.

Yeah, Nissan sucks too and so does Chevy (at least they used to, maybe they are better now.) Maybe they aren't so bad, but Honda is super great so one gets spoiled.

[siamdivers]

Why have you excluded the Prius from your shopping list?

http://www.toyota.co.th/en/product-detail.php?model=prius&opt=grades

For that matter, why no mention of the CR-Z?

http://honda.co.th/en/crz

Indeed if it's all about going hybrid for the sake of saving taxes (or kidding yourself you're saving the world), you may as well also consider the Cayenne

http://pap.porsche.com/thailand_en/models/cayenne/cayenne-s-hybrid/ or Panamera: http://pap.porsche.com/thailand_en/models/panamera/panamera-s-e-hybrid/ and indeed all of the BMW Hybrids:

http://www.bmw.co.th/th/en/newvehicles/3series/sedan_active_hybrid/2011/showroom/

http://www.bmw.co.th/th/en/newvehicles/5series/sedan_active_hybrid/2011/showroom/

http://www.bmw.co.th/th/en/newvehicles/7series/sedan_active_hybrid/2012/showroom/

And hopefully this also puts to rest any stories that batteries have major problems in TH, or AC doesn't work etc etc

I didn't mention the CRZ because there is no hybrid. Nice car, though, the wife wants one. Too big for Phuket's roads IMHO (sorry to steal your moniker.) If I drove off the island more I would seriously look at one, though in that class I like the Pejero better. My niece has one and it's a great car.

We looked at the CRZ the other day, 1.44 million for the fully loaded one, beautiful car.

[IMHO]

Why have you excluded the Prius from your shopping list?

http://www.toyota.co.th/en/product-detail.php?model=prius&opt=grades

For that matter, why no mention of the CR-Z?

http://honda.co.th/en/crz

Indeed if it's all about going hybrid for the sake of saving taxes (or kidding yourself you're saving the world), you may as well also consider the Cayenne

http://pap.porsche.com/thailand_en/models/cayenne/cayenne-s-hybrid/ or Panamera: http://pap.porsche.com/thailand_en/models/panamera/panamera-s-e-hybrid/ and indeed all of the BMW Hybrids:

http://www.bmw.co.th/th/en/newvehicles/3series/sedan_active_hybrid/2011/showroom/

http://www.bmw.co.th/th/en/newvehicles/5series/sedan_active_hybrid/2011/showroom/

http://www.bmw.co.th/th/en/newvehicles/7series/sedan_active_hybrid/2012/showroom/

And hopefully this also puts to rest any stories that batteries have major problems in TH, or AC doesn't work etc etc

I didn't mention the CRZ because there is no hybrid. Nice car, though, the wife wants one. Too big for Phuket's roads IMHO (sorry to steal your moniker.) If I drove off the island more I would seriously look at one, though in that class I like the Pejero better. My niece has one and it's a great car.

We looked at the CRZ the other day, 1.44 million for the fully loaded one, beautiful car.

I think you're getting your CR-[insert letter Here]'s mixed up - the CR-Z is only available as a hybrid

[siamdivers]

Oh, right, I was confused, I thought you meant the CR-V. Yes, that looks like a nice car and has an optional 10 year warranty too. 2 million, baht, though... A little pricey for me.

[realfunster]

Siam divers, CRVs run from about 1.2 to 1.5m as I recall. Would that pricing change your opinion ?

[siamdivers]

This site says 1.975

http://honda.co.th/en/crz

[siamdivers]

Sorry. Mixing up the models again. Trying to sell me a car? :-)

[merijn]

Thanks, rechapstick, for the clarification. I have to admit I have not done that much research online and need to do that, but was hoping that this forum could give me a little personal insight on the cars in Thailand which it has to a certain extent. But no one who actually owns a Honda hybrid has responded. Maybe they are too new and it's better to wait and see.

I didn't know that the Honda and Toyota technologies were different, that's very interesting. Maybe explains why they are cheaper than the Toyotas. Pruis are 1.2 million, Camry 1.7 million compared to Jazz 780,000 and City, 1,150,000. The Camry seems to be in the Accord category then. And no hybrid on the Accord yet.

I was discussing Toyota vs Honda with some friends last night and the problem here in Phuket is that in our experience, Toyota, despite having built a brand-new service center, basically sucks on their service. You have to make an appointment two weeks in advance, the staff doesn't care, doesn't call you when there is a change in the order and in general are not well trained. This may be just the Phuket branch and not Thailand in general, but they sucked 9 years ago when I talked to them about a car and they suck now according to friends who have Toyotas. This is a side issue, but it's important when considering a purchase and at least in Phuket, Honda wins hands-down in support and service.

But a little bummed to hear that the technology is not the same between the two brands.

And I think the battery replacement has been answered. If it's designed to run 600,000 km then that's more than the life of the car so it's moot.

Thanks again for all of your answers. Keep them coming if you have more info. Any satisfied Civic or Jazz hybrid owners out there? Maybe, as I said, it's just too soon.

John

There are a few different Toyoya centers on Phuket. Check out the one on Thepkassatri Road close to Phuket Town, much better than the big one on the Bypass/Thepkassatri intersection. Or the one on ChaoFa Road West in town, located much more conveniently for anybody living in Chalong-Rawai-Kata etc., but also there the sales sucks.

All Phuket Dealers are owned by the same person and they all work together.

The service feeling can be different at the locations off-course.

[ignis]

Quote from many sites............The next Triton will debut with the usual spread of conventional power-trains but a hybrid version is also expected, with Mitsubishi promising an electric or electrically-assisted variant in each model range by 2015.

So maybe a Hybrid pick up option on all makes here in the not to distant future ?

[IMHO]

Quote from many sites............The next Triton will debut with the usual spread of conventional power-trains but a hybrid version is also expected, with Mitsubishi promising an electric or electrically-assisted variant in each model range by 2015.

So maybe a Hybrid pick up option on all makes here in the not to distant future ?

Yep,word is the next gen Triton will be available with a hybrid-diesel drivetrain. So far, no rumors for hybrid pickups from other makes, but everyone except for Isuzu and Mazda (unless they license Toyota's hybrid systems again) also have the tech available - but have never yet implemented it with a diesel engine..

That said, don't necessarily expect the next gen Triton to have the hybrid version available at it's 2014 launch.. Well before the Mirage was launched, Mitsu also told us it would be available with both Hybrid and EV variants, but we're still waiting...

[siamdivers]

Oh, the Triton is a pick up truck. Not interested in that, but thanks for the info.

[ignis]

Oh, the Triton is a pick up truck. Not interested in that, but thanks for the info.

Yes but would expect all makes to follow and to come with Hybrid, we do see here more and more makes of Hybrids

No problem from the Petroleum companies, as Hybrids still use petrol or diesel.

[siamdivers]

And some use E85 I have read now. This is also interesting and at least here in Phuket, it's available everywhere.

[rchapstick]

I'm going to stand corrected on my statement about the Jazz Hybrid. Seems the tech changed in July:

http://world.honda.com/news/2012/4120726Jazz-Hybrid-Thai/index.html

The Jazz Hybrid now has, apparently, the same tech as Toyota's Hybrids, and claims to get 21.3 KPL city and highway combined. With this type of hybrid, the KPL figures are about the same for City and Highway driving.

[ignis]

Never looked before, but 21.3 KPL city and highway combined looks rather poor ? The new 1.2 engine in cars that cost a lot lot less to buy do this or better..!!

​The Jazz Diesel [not here] claim to do 25 to 26 KPL...

Not long ago Honda claimed the Civic Hybrid did 21.26 kilometers per liter, if this was so makes the Jazz Hybrid look poor.

[culicine]

Never looked before, but 21.3 KPL city and highway combined looks rather poor ? The new 1.2 engine in cars that cost a lot lot less to buy do this or better..!!

​The Jazz Diesel [not here] claim to do 25 to 26 KPL...

Not long ago Honda claimed the Civic Hybrid did 21.26 kilometers per liter, if this was so makes the Jazz Hybrid look poor.

Any figure claimed by the dealer will be rather optimistic....20 km/l for ecocars is only achievable in real world highway driving. The real figure would be somewhere from 13-16 km/l in mixed driving. I would expect the hybrids to be less than 21 km/l, if their estimations are based one the same formula used for other cars. Would need to wait to hear some real world figures from drivers of hybrids. They might well be more efficient than the small ecocars, but I haven't seen the numbers to prove it.

[TomTao]

The Prius I had a 40lt tank and got about 900 km to 3/4 of a tank on the open road.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[siamdivers]

Thanks, yes, this is the information that I am looking for, thanks.

The dealer told me a similar number referring to mileage, 16-20 or so per liter were the dealer specs.

But then she told me her customers were coming back and saying that in the Honda Civic Hybrid, they were getting from Phuket to Bangkok and back, on one tank of fuel (50 liters) so that would be maybe 35km per liter. She told me that they were testing to see how good they could get it, so I'm sure they were being very conservative in their driving habits. But that is a very interesting number and much much better than what I am getting in my current 2004 City.

She had no figures for the Jazz, it was too new.

So it sounds like the Civic and the Prius are getting about the same. Interesting. Thanks for the information folks.