Toyota or Honda Hybrids...

[siamdivers]

I was at my Honda dealer the other day getting service done on my car, and I noticed they have two hybrids now available, a Jazz and the Civic. I see a lot of Prius around here in Phuket now too. Saw a few in Bangkok two weeks ago but not as many as I see here. Governors are all driving hybrid Camrys so the word is.

The Civic is pretty nice and about the same price as the gasoline model. But I know very very little about hybrids. The cute sales-girl said that a customer of hers drove to Bangkok and back from Phuket on a single tank of fuel (that's over 1800km, but she didn't know how many liters the tank held.)

Anyone know the pros and cons? How do they handle the heat here, does the air conditioner have any trouble? Do the batteries handle the heat? My sister who lives in Arizona said that they have trouble with the hybrids and electric cars there because of the heat, but that may have just been something she read about in the paper. How are maintenance costs compared to benzine cars? Maybe they haven't been here long enough for anyone to know, not sure. These cars are made in Thailand so that means the parts shouldn't be very expensive since they are not imported.

The engine size is 1500cc which seems small (gasoline on the Civics are 1800 and 2000cc), but I don't know how to compare since it has the electric engine as well.

I looked at an imported Prius about six or seven years ago and then they wanted 3 million baht. The Jazz is about 7xx,000 and the Civic 1.1 million or so depending in the color.

Any comments or great car experts out there? Thanks in advance.

[muratremix]

Its waste of money. If fuel consumption is your primary goal, why don't you buy a car with CNG? Honda City have CNG edition for 50K baht extra (for the cng system). There is no hybrid car can beat CNG when it comes to cost per KM. CNG car also much cheaper than hybrid car.

[culicine]

The new civic run on E85 too, which i pretty cheap, but depends on where you live and if a service station nearby has it. I wouldn't like to drive a civic with a 1.5 engine, but not sure how the civic performs with this engine. Give it a test drive to see what the power is like. If you don't need a largish car like a civic the jazz hybrid would be a better deal, or the city cng as mentioned.

[siamdivers]

Thanks for that.

No, cost of fuel is not a primary factor in my considerations. I am just hybrid-curious and have been for years. I like the idea of silence when running on electric and I know there is controversy about whether or not it is really "green technology" or not. I know it produces fewer greenhouse gases, but they say the manufacturing is pretty un-green and I have heard the long-term life of the battery is not good. And who knows if they actually recycle these batteries here or if they just end up in a heap somewhere. TIT.

I wanted to test drive it but they didn't have a vehicle that day, it was on loan. But I'll go and test drive one in a few days and see how it is. Easy enough to compare the two models by a test drive, I agree.

I just started this thread to see if anyone has actually owned a hybrid in Thailand and what their thoughts were after owning and running one for, say, six months or a year.

I have a 2004 Honda City which is great, but getting on 10 years I'll probably sell it so looking to replace it with something. I like the larger interior space of the Civic and the seats are a lot more comfortable (though the hybrid doesn't seem to have the leather option like the gasoline engines do, so maybe they are not quite there yet with production.)

Yes, aware of the CNG or LPG (I am not sure of the correct term) and yes, living in Phuket we have enough of these stations to where it would be no hassle to fill up. But anyway, like I said, I'm just curios about hybrids in general at this point. I like the idea of them.

Thanks,

John

[siamdivers]

Oh, and by the way, the Civic and Jazz hybrid are pretty much the same cost as the gasoline version. Almost no difference, but I think you get a few more options (like better seats and more color selection) with the gasoline version. I'll scan the price sheet and post it here.

[siamdivers]

Oh, looking at the prices again there is a bit of a difference, but if you compare it to the top of the line then it's a bit less actually.

[muratremix]

Don't mix hybrid cars with pretty small batteries (2-3 kms on electric drive only!) with EV cars / EV with extender cars.

Only good thing about hybrid cars are when you stuck in traffic, your engine stops and you don't waste anything during traffic jams, which may reduce your fuel usage greatly depending on when and where you drive your car mostly. However, considering nobody drives car with air-con off in Thailand, not sure how efficient it is. If aircon can work from batteries (I don't think so) then it will help deplete batteries in Traffic jam.

[siamdivers]

Thanks, that's a good question to ask them, about the air con on batteries. I have heard mixed reports. Thanks.

[Billy The Kid]

Toyota is the best car in the world. Reliable engines. Try get it gas fixed like all the Thai taxi drivers use. Will save you a lots of bahts on fuel .

[siamdivers]

Thanks for that. Looking for information on hybrids in Thailand, though, thanks.

[phupaman]

Hi All.

I have a Camry Hybrid 2.5 I have had it exactly 1 year now, No problems at all when you ask for a responce from the enginei it really goes .On occaisions when we have taken a road trip the onboard computer tells me we are getting about 19 klms per litre. I amnot saying that the extra cost will save you Baht in petrol but the cost was not much over the normal 2.5G at 1.5 million Camry hybrid just under 1.7mill.A really nice car and I am glad I bought it.

Phupaman

[ignis]

Always led to believe that the Honda was better than the Toyota,, Road test in Thailand Honda Insight and Toyota Prius...

and the new 2012 Insight ? starting price of 750,000 baht looked a good deal.......... so what happened ? why a Civic ?

http://www.thaicarnews.com/2011/07/02/honda-insight-2012-%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%A2%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%89%E0%B8%B5%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%A2%E0%B8%A7-%E0%B8%9B%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%94%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%9B%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B5%E0%B8%A2%E0%B8%A7/

[siamdivers]

Thanks, Phupaman, just what I was looking for. Yes, the Camry has been here for a bit over two years I think. They made a big deal about them when they bought all 76 governors new hybrids. Honda was a little slow to catch up. I only started seeing Prius here last year.

Good report, I like it. How often does the car actually just run on electric, is it often or only when you're idling? I mean, in heavy traffic like we have here in Phuket there is a lot of stop and go at every silly red light that they have every 600 meters. It's almost faster to walk. Does the air con work well in stop and go? It's hard to turn it off here, not only because of the heat but also because of the diesel exhaust you breath when the windows are down. And it's so noisy with all the motorbikes zooming around.

I'm with you, Ingis, with regard to Honda being better than Toyota. The Toyota dealer here has a very bad rep for service. While the Honda shop is spot on and very inexpensive. Been dealing with them for 9-years now and they have never let me down, never overcharged me, always been nothing but polite and always done a great job. I hear nightmares about the Toyota shop in Phuket. I know when I looked at my first car, they were rude, arrogant, and completely unhelpful. Just the opposite of Honda.

But I'm sure that's just here, Toyota has a great reputation most places. My parents always had Toyotas and loved them.

As I said, I have a City now and it's great. But thinking that a Civic would be a little bit nicer this time. Better on the highway for sure and more comfortable interior. The ride will be smoother too.

[siamdivers]

Oh, I haven't seen the Insight, that looks like a nice car, a lot like my City but maybe bigger. Do they have a hybrid version do you know? No Insights at my dealership here but I will ask them. Thanks.

[siamdivers]

Seems the Insight is still an import from what I can see. It's not listed on their website.

[Ace of Pop]

Hi All.

I have a Camry Hybrid 2.5 I have had it exactly 1 year now, No problems at all when you ask for a responce from the enginei it really goes .On occaisions when we have taken a road trip the onboard computer tells me we are getting about 19 klms per litre. I amnot saying that the extra cost will save you Baht in petrol but the cost was not much over the normal 2.5G at 1.5 million Camry hybrid just under 1.7mill.A really nice car and I am glad I bought it.

Phupaman

How Many KMs have you done,thats what matters .Second hand they dont sell.

[phupaman]

Hi All.

First of all my answer to Ace of Pop,I bought the car new on august 3 last year it has now done8,800

km all of them seamless. Siam divers when you start the car and pull away as long as you do not hit the gas to the floor a small light comes on indicating EV electric vehicle, if you hit the gas hard the ligt goes out and you are using petrol but using the car normally around Khonkaen Cityjust following traffic at 50-60 kph90% of the time you are using EV . When we have done small road trips I found that normally she runs at 65-70 kph but if you put your foot down to overtake etcthe EV light goes out and comes on again at about 65 kph.

I have lived in Thailand7 years and have had 5 new cars before I brought thisCamryI had a ford fiesta It was a nice small car it went really well but it was only doing about 10 klms to a litre, As far as they do not sell well ,I dont really careI have lost money on all my cars in Thailand ,When I had my fiesta i was nearly getting rid of it the localNissan dealer offered me400,000 BT agaist me going to buy a new Teana My fiesta only had 3,200 KMS on the clockat the time and 5 months old..I will keep my Camry it is the best car I have had in Thai,and if you buy one Siamdivers I am sure you will like it,The Toyota dealer we use in Khonkaen is First Class.

phupaman,

[Ace of Pop]

Thank You Phupaman, a nice reply. You Buy to Enjoy,not to save money.

[siamdivers]

Thanks, Phupaman, that's what I was looking for. Sounds cool. Yes, hard to say on the second hand selling market at this point, the hybrids are new here and Thais are pretty conservative with their idea of what makes a good car or not. I find that Hondas keep their value better than others, but with the car market being flooded by all of the good deals, easy credit and government encouragement (First Car, First House), second hand prices are sure to suffer.

If I buy a new car I will most likely take what Honda gives me on a trade in, but I will advertise it first. I paid 680,000 for it new, have had zero problems (except this week I am putting in new brakes so that's something, but the first time I have had to spend money on it really) and I'm sure I can sell it for at least 250K, maybe 300K. We'll see. I think I have gotten my money's worth out of it.

As I have said several times, I'm hybrid curious and like the idea of them. It's not necessarily about saving on petrol, as others have pointed out, LPG or whatever you call it will do that easily enough (though you lose your trunk space and I like my trunk space.)

Thanks again, glad you're enjoying the car.

John

[phupaman]

HiAll.

My wife has an Altis2,0V she really loves it 3.5 years old had it from new, never any problems, never spent a tanner on it, but the ride? my Camry is so superior quite, smooth,comfortable. Powerful, The Altis cost 1mil and 44 ,000 but is not in the same class as the Camry,

by the way ,,,,,I do not work for Toyota,

phupaman

[anon210]

Hi All.

First of all my answer to Ace of Pop,I bought the car new on august 3 last year it has now done8,800

km all of them seamless. Siam divers when you start the car and pull away as long as you do not hit the gas to the floor a small light comes on indicating EV electric vehicle, if you hit the gas hard the ligt goes out and you are using petrol but using the car normally around Khonkaen Cityjust following traffic at 50-60 kph90% of the time you are using EV . When we have done small road trips I found that normally she runs at 65-70 kph but if you put your foot down to overtake etcthe EV light goes out and comes on again at about 65 kph.

I have lived in Thailand7 years and have had 5 new cars before I brought thisCamryI had a ford fiesta It was a nice small car it went really well but it was only doing about 10 klms to a litre, As far as they do not sell well ,I dont really careI have lost money on all my cars in Thailand ,When I had my fiesta i was nearly getting rid of it the localNissan dealer offered me400,000 BT agaist me going to buy a new Teana My fiesta only had 3,200 KMS on the clockat the time and 5 months old..I will keep my Camry it is the best car I have had in Thai,and if you buy one Siamdivers I am sure you will like it,The Toyota dealer we use in Khonkaen is First Class.

phupaman,

I always had a theoretical issue about Hybrids. Given Thailand is so hot, most people use the aircon. How does the exclusively electric motor function with aircon putting its drag on it in city, especially during the long idling sessions? Does the gasoline motor pick up after a certain time of idling when the batteries are almost depleted?

[phupaman]

Hi

Freemindex, It is as you say we have not noticed any change in the cars engine perfomance with the Aircon on, and it is always on. But if the car is stationery in EV mode then the petrol engine kicks in I guess to keep the batteries charged,but you dont notice when petrol kicks in it is very quite and you dont hardly notice.

phupaman

[muratremix]

If it starts gasoline engine to charge batteries for aircon, it will greatly reduce battery life then? Charge and discharge and reduce battery life.

[Ace of Pop]

Driving Batteries hard extends the life on Forklift Trucs though.

[guzzi850m2]

Those batteries for hybrid cars must be expensive with the amount of batteries in one car, I assume they are not ordinary car starting batteries?

Lifespan? 3-5 years tops?

No thanks.

[guzzi850m2]

Double post, sorry

Edited August 2, 2013 by guzzi850m2

[siamdivers]

They are lithium batteries (same as laptop computers or phones) and I have read that 10-years is the lifespan, then they are replaced. But that is also a good question to ask the dealership. I have read they recycle them, I'm sure that Honda would do the same here.

Thanks for the clarification on the air con, that was my exact question too and I read that this is one of the reasons it took so long for them to get to Thailand was because of air con issues. I guess they got it sorted out. My sister who lives in Arizona said that some of the electric cars have had big problems in the heat so I assumed it would be the same here. But as you have confirmed, it seems the kinks are worked out.

Thanks again for your answers.

John

[siamdivers]

Whoops, double post by me too, sorry. Internet sucks in Phuket today.

Edited August 2, 2013 by siamdivers

[TomTao]

I owned a Toyota Prius in Australia before I came over here, it was a great car to drive, drove 11,500 km around Australia for just under $700 four years ago. It was comfortable, lots of space inside, could out accelerate a big V6 at the lights. IMO a hybrid is a good buy, when I owned my hybrid Toyota was ahead of Honda with hybrid technology, don't know if its still the case.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[guzzi850m2]

If they are lithium batteries it must cost a lot of money to change them as we all know you will have the change the whole lot when the times comes.