Thai wife with Dual citizenship. Her status now in Thailand?

[The Deerhunter]

My Thai wife migrated to my country 7 years ago. We legally married in my country during the first year she is now on the verge of verge of being granted citizenship here too. She can then have another passport too.

We visit Thailand & family here regularly but we always intended to live "abroad.."

Recently since my retirement, we decided for various reasons to move & live for the next few years in Thailand, travelling regularly between the two countries, and probably moving back overseas in old-age.

So she will have dual citizenship and two passports. Her current Thai passport has a returning resident stamp for my country. But when she renews her Thai passport next year, this will not be necessary and my country will probably not allow her to classify as a resident in one passport AND a citizen by virtue of the other.

What is the best "legal" way for travelling to & from between the two countries? Using two passports on every trip, using each passport for it's home immigration procedures?

Also are there any downsides for her in actual loss of legal Thai privileges for a Thai citizen with dual citizenship in another country. In buying more land for example ?

This situation can hardly be unique? I would be grateful for all answers from people who have actual genuine knowledge (not rumor) of this set of circumstances.

[samran]

No loss of privileges. For Thailand, dual citizenship has been legal since 1992.

So long as she enters Thailand on her Thai passport, she will be recognised as a Thai citizen.

Simple rule. Enter and leave Thailand on Thai PP. Enter and leave your country on her new passport. Show airline check in both passports to show that your wife has the legal right to enter the destination country without a visa. Immigration these days don't care if there isn't a 'stamp trail' in passports.

[lopburi3]

As said use passports of respective countries for there borders and whatever is advantageous to you for others (not needing visas main thing). The land ownership issue is no longer a problem - she can own land - the only change is after marriage the foreign spouse must sign that it is not marriage property due to foreigners not being allowed to own land and the common property laws of Thailand. In the past they would not register land purchase to avoid this issue but new system is to allow with such covering letter so no longer an issue and routinely done.

[Billmont]

No loss of privileges. For Thailand, dual citizenship has been legal since 1992.

So long as she enters Thailand on her Thai passport, she will be recognised as a Thai citizen.

Simple rule. Enter and leave Thailand on Thai PP. Enter and leave your country on her new passport. Show airline check in both passports to show that your wife has the legal right to enter the destination country without a visa. Immigration these days don't care if there isn't a 'stamp trail' in passports.

My wife has Thai UK passports and she follows what is written above. Leave Thailand on her Thai passport and arrives in the UK with her UK Passport, leaves the UK on the UK passport and arrives in Thailand with her Thai passport. Never any difficulties or even the suggestion of one. Travel outside of Thailand is on her UK passport, last year she went to the USA for an family funeral and againwithout any problems. Having duel citizenship for a Thai person is the best of both worlds and well worth the trouble and expense of obtaining.

[naiharn]

No loss of privileges. For Thailand, dual citizenship has been legal since 1992.

Not true. Thailand does not recognise dual citizenship.

e.g. http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/wscl/ws_THAILAND.html

Thai Nationality Act 2551:

Section 22. A person of Thai nationality who has been naturalized as an alien, or who has renounced

Thai nationality, or whose Thai nationality has been revoked, shall lose Thai nationality.

However it is rather common for upper class Thais to have an extra passport, so the authorities nearly always turn a blind eye to this issue.

Occasionally someone does get into trouble - you might remember Abhisit being attacked a few years ago for allegedly holding British nationality, which he had acquired automatically at birth, and apparently hadn't renounced.

Part of the procedure for a foreigner obtaining Thai citizenship is to renounce ones original citizenship:

Applicants should produce a document that they have submitted to their embassy or consulate in Thailand that demonstrates their intention to renounce their existing citizenship when they are approved for Thai citizenship.

[ubonjoe]

That is old and outdated information you posted and is not from an official source.

Thai law does not rule out dual nationality.

The affidavit thing when applying is not in the law and is a rule that some bureaucrats came up with. Just because you wrote it does not mean you have to give up your original nationality.

Edited August 5, 2013 by ubonjoe

[lopburi3]

Many countries, including the USA, do not recognize dual nationality but fully accept that people have and do not cause issues. That is the same policy Thailand has. It is not an issue. We are not talking about foreigners obtaining Thai citizenship - that is a different set of rules.

[SSSlongtime]

No loss of privileges. For Thailand, dual citizenship has been legal since 1992.

So long as she enters Thailand on her Thai passport, she will be recognised as a Thai citizen.

Simple rule. Enter and leave Thailand on Thai PP. Enter and leave your country on her new passport. Show airline check in both passports to show that your wife has the legal right to enter the destination country without a visa. Immigration these days don't care if there isn't a 'stamp trail' in passports.

My wife has Thai UK passports and she follows what is written above. Leave Thailand on her Thai passport and arrives in the UK with her UK Passport, leaves the UK on the UK passport and arrives in Thailand with her Thai passport. Never any difficulties or even the suggestion of one. Travel outside of Thailand is on her UK passport, last year she went to the USA for an family funeral and againwithout any problems. Having duel citizenship for a Thai person is the best of both worlds and well worth the trouble and expense of obtaining.

yes my wife has the same can travel the world ,live where she likes in europe ,wish it was the same for us in Thailand

[BudRight]

Having dual citizenship is a boon, not a liability. Seize the opportunity and resist any attempt to lose either.

[SpeakeasyThai]

Once they have another passport (Australian, UK, etc) it opens up a lot of opportunities for them as Thai passports usually require entry visas applied at Consulates which are expensive to apply for (no guarantee they will be issued - and you don't get your money back when rejected). Be careful though as the bird might fly away from you!

[myluckythai]

Hi i'm Dutch and my wife travels in the same way as described before. Thai in Thailand, Dutch in Holland.

The dutch government provides my wife and baby with dual citizenship automatically.

This is only for Thai and some other nationalities. All others have to give up One of the 2.

This is due to a legal agrrement about exchanging officiel documents. This is what makes it legal in Holland to have 2 nationalities.

The agreement between governments to exchange documents.

The Thai government doesn't care. They only want to know you are Thai. the rest is for outside thailand more than within.

Edited August 5, 2013 by jviersel

[Billmont]

No loss of privileges. For Thailand, dual citizenship has been legal since 1992.

So long as she enters Thailand on her Thai passport, she will be recognised as a Thai citizen.

Simple rule. Enter and leave Thailand on Thai PP. Enter and leave your country on her new passport. Show airline check in both passports to show that your wife has the legal right to enter the destination country without a visa. Immigration these days don't care if there isn't a 'stamp trail' in passports.

My wife has Thai UK passports and she follows what is written above. Leave Thailand on her Thai passport and arrives in the UK with her UK Passport, leaves the UK on the UK passport and arrives in Thailand with her Thai passport. Never any difficulties or even the suggestion of one. Travel outside of Thailand is on her UK passport, last year she went to the USA for an family funeral and againwithout any problems. Having duel citizenship for a Thai person is the best of both worlds and well worth the trouble and expense of obtaining.

yes my wife has the same can travel the world ,live where she likes in europe ,wish it was the same for us in Thailand Unquote

Yes, good isn't it. Our wives used to be the second class citizens now it is just us here in Thailand!

[SpokaneAl]

No loss of privileges. For Thailand, dual citizenship has been legal since 1992.

So long as she enters Thailand on her Thai passport, she will be recognised as a Thai citizen.

Simple rule. Enter and leave Thailand on Thai PP. Enter and leave your country on her new passport. Show airline check in both passports to show that your wife has the legal right to enter the destination country without a visa. Immigration these days don't care if there isn't a 'stamp trail' in passports.

Can you explain a bit so this thick headed guy can better understand what you mean by "Show airline check in both passports . . . "?

My wife will be using her Thai passport for the first time in September when we travel back to Thailand to stay for a number of months and I really want to get this right.

Thank you.

[lopburi3]

On exit to a country that would require a Thai visa if using Thai passport you would show airline check-in staff your foreign passport to prove you do not need a visa - routine check by airline to be sure you will be allowed entry.

[dighambara]

No loss of privileges. For Thailand, dual citizenship has been legal since 1992.

Not true. Thailand does not recognise dual citizenship.

e.g. http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/wscl/ws_THAILAND.html

Thai Nationality Act 2551:

Section 22. A person of Thai nationality who has been naturalized as an alien, or who has renounced

Thai nationality, or whose Thai nationality has been revoked, shall lose Thai nationality.

However it is rather common for upper class Thais to have an extra passport, so the authorities nearly always turn a blind eye to this issue.

Occasionally someone does get into trouble - you might remember Abhisit being attacked a few years ago for allegedly holding British nationality, which he had acquired automatically at birth, and apparently hadn't renounced.

Part of the procedure for a foreigner obtaining Thai citizenship is to renounce ones original citizenship:

Applicants should produce a document that they have submitted to their embassy or consulate in Thailand that demonstrates their intention to renounce their existing citizenship when they are approved for Thai citizenship.

HMMM - per recent postings, I suspect the renunciation is handled exactly like the dual citizenship. Either not a valid requirement or ignored completely.

My Daughters claimed their Thai citizenship and passports and were never asked to renounce US citizenship...

[lopburi3]

If your daughters had a Thai parent they had citizenship by birth, not by naturalization.

[naiharn]

That is old and outdated information you posted and is not from an official source.

Thai law does not rule out dual nationality.

The information I posted about a Thai losing Thai nationality is from the actual Act of Parliament concerning nationality, translated into English, and is dated 2008. It was "enacted by the HM the King, by and with the advice and consent of the (Parliament)".

How much more official do you want it to be? (And there has been no Act overriding it since 2008. It is the law - take it or leave it!)

Having said that, I fully realise that there are lots of laws in Thailand which are completely ignored. (Just think about the laws prohibiting prostitution.)

I agree with the advice offered to the OP by other posters: your wife just needs to use her Thai passport entering and exiting Thailand, and her new non-Thai passport when entering and exiting your country.

[samran]

Naiharn,

You aren't wrong quoting the act, but the first link you gave is not true. Thailand has no problem with dual citizenship in a number of cases, including those who are born with it, those who take up citizenship, and those who take up the nationality of their foreign spouse.

The last of those, taking up the nationality of a foreign spouse, seems to be regarded by the authorities as something other than naturalisation, and a check of the FAQ sections of Thai embassy websites you will see that taking the nationality of a foreign spouse is perfectly fine.

More over, like all Thai laws, the Nationality Act is written quite broadly and it is usually the enabling legislation, or in this case, dictats from the MOI which also need to be read. From my undertstanding, even if the someone independently migrates and the naturalises as a foreign national, they do not automatically lose their Thai citizenship. They still have to be 'found out' and their nationality revocation has to be formally approved by the Minister and then published in the royal gazette.

The long and the short of all this however is that for most people with dual nationality, that part of the act is not applicable, as (to repeat), they were born with another nationality, naturalised as a Thai, or took the nationality of their foreign spouse.

[naiharn]

Naiharn,

You aren't wrong quoting the act, but the first link you gave is not true. Thailand has no problem with dual citizenship in a number of cases, including those who are born with it,

Thailand has no problem with dual citizenship of someone born with it, UP UNTIL the time they reach adulthood, at which, (officially at least) they must choose Thai nationality or the other one. (This particular aspect is not relevant to the OP - he is worried about his Thai wife, not children.)

those who take up citizenship,

I quoted the advice from the Interior Minister: part of the procedure to take up Thai citizenship is to swear to renounce one's original citizenship. Now I agree, this requirement is probably not enforced, in usual slack-arsed Thai fashion. But that is a long way short of saying "Thailand has no problem with dual citizenship"!

dictats from the MOI which also need to be read.

The info I quoted about someone naturalising as a Thai IS from the Interior Minister, issued around 2008.

--------

One other point I neglected to mention: according to the Thai Nationality Act (Section 19), if a foreigner acquires Thai nationality, he can lose it if:

- there is evidence to show that he still makes use of his former nationality, or

- he resides abroad for 5 years without maintaining a domicile in Thailand

Further proof that Thailand does NOT officially recognise dual citizenship.

[lopburi3]

Thailand has no problem with dual citizenship of someone born with it, UP UNTIL the time they reach adulthood, at which, (officially at least) they must choose Thai nationality

Where is that a requirement? AFAIK it is only an opportunity if one wants to do so - no requirement to do.

[samran]

All so wrong...where to start

Naiharn,

You aren't wrong quoting the act, but the first link you gave is not true. Thailand has no problem with dual citizenship in a number of cases, including those who are born with it,

Thailand has no problem with dual citizenship of someone born with it, UP UNTIL the time they reach adulthood, at which, (officially at least) they must choose Thai nationality or the other one. (This particular aspect is not relevant to the OP - he is worried about his Thai wife, not children.)

Suggest you go back and read the Act again. The Act gives a child, born to a Thai and foreign parent, the opportunity between ages 20 and 21 of renouncing Thai citizenship, if they so wish. You may also chose to note that there is no penalty for not chosing - after which they can continue to hold dual citizenship.

Section 14

A person of Thai nationality, who was born of an alien father or mother and hasacquired the nationality of the father or mother according to the law on nationalityof the father or mother, or a person who acquired T

hai nationality under Section 12 paragraph two or Section 12/1 (2) and (3) is required, if he desires to retain hisother nationality, to make a declaration of his intention to renounce his Thai

nationality within one year after his attaining theage of 20 years, according to suchforms and in the manner as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

Context is important here - the second version of the Nationality Act in 1992 DID have a penalty for people not chosing (ie automatically forefeting of Thai citizeship if a choice was not made) but that was done away with in Version 3 of the Act, released later in 1992. Subseqent versions of the act have kept that language exactly the same, except for an ammendment in 2008 making this clause apply to those borth for a foreign father or mother. Gender equity and all that...

I quoted the advice from the Interior Minister: part of the procedure to take up Thai citizenship is to swear to renounce one's original citizenship. Now I agree, this requirement is probably not enforced, in usual slack-arsed Thai fashion. But that is a long way short of saying "Thailand has no problem with dual citizenship"!

Those who take up citizenship are required to sign a statement of intention that they will renounce their original citizenship. But renounciation isn't required for the approval of the citizenship.

One other point I neglected to mention: according to the Thai Nationality Act (Section 19), if a foreigner acquires Thai nationality, he can lose it if:

- there is evidence to show that he still makes use of his former nationality, or

- he resides abroad for 5 years without maintaining a domicile in Thailand

Further proof that Thailand does NOT officially recognise dual citizenship.

That last clause only applies to people who have naturalised as Thai's. Maintain a domicle in Thailand probably can be interpreted broadly. Being on the tabien baan probably qualifies as 'maintain a domicile'.

I'm not sure how those clauses make you think there isn't a recognition of the concept that Thai's can hold more than one nationality, especially when the Act refers to people holding other citizenships:

"

“Section 13

A man or woman of Thai nationality who marries an alien and may acquire thenationality of the spouse according to his nationality law shall, if he or she desires

to renounce Thai nationality, make a declaration ofhis or her intention before anofficial according to the form and in the manner prescribed in the MinisterialRegulations.”

--------

Edited August 7, 2013 by samran

[naiharn]

All so wrong...where to start

Thailand has no problem with dual citizenship of someone born with it, UP UNTIL the time they reach adulthood, at which, (officially at least) they must choose Thai nationality or the other one. (This particular aspect is not relevant to the OP - he is worried about his Thai wife, not children.)

Suggest you go back and read the Act again. The Act gives a child, born to a Thai and foreign parent, the opportunity between ages 20 and 21 of renouncing Thai citizenship, if they so wish. You may also chose to note that there is no penalty for not chosing - after which they can continue to hold dual citizenship.

Section 14

A person of Thai nationality, who was born of an alien father or mother and hasacquired the nationality of the father or mother according to the law on nationalityof the father or mother, or a person who acquired T

hai nationality under Section 12 paragraph two or Section 12/1 (2) and (3) is required, if he desires to retain hisother nationality, to make a declaration of his intention to renounce his Thai

nationality within one year after his attaining theage of 20 years, according to suchforms and in the manner as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

I don't agree with your (rather strange) interpretation at all.

This clearly says, for a child who holds Thai and foreign citizenship through their parents:

- when she/he reaches adulthood she/he can either

1) lose their foreign citzenship

or

2) lose their Thai citizenship.

Note that the act uses the word 'required' whereas you have changed it to 'opportunity'!!!!

I love that!

Under Thai law she/he can't keep both citizenships. (That there is no penalty for not carrying out the law is irrelevant. Anyone who gets found out could lose their Thai citizenship.)

I don't see how can possibly cite that as an example of Thailand recognising 'dual nationality'.

That last clause only applies to people who have naturalised as Thai's.

Yes of course it only applies to people naturalised as Thais. Get caught out using your original nationality, and you risk losing your Thai nationality. Just explain to me how that is in keeping with "Thailand recognises dual nationality"! Thailand does NOT (officially) recognise dual nationality.

"

“Section 13

A man or woman of Thai nationality who marries an alien and may acquire thenationality of the spouse according to his nationality law shall, if he or she desires

to renounce Thai nationality, make a declaration ofhis or her intention before anofficial according to the form and in the manner prescribed in the MinisterialRegulations.”

The effect of this section hinges on just what is meant by "may acquire the nationality of the spouse" (or the original in Thai). Does it mean "acquire automatically by virtue of the marriage" or "acquire it through voluntary application"? Suppose I accept it means acquiring the spouse's nationality in any way whatsoever, and that Section 22 does not apply. (i.e. that Section 13 overrides Section 22 of the Act).

I live in Australia and I know of numerous Thais, married to Thais or single, who have taken Australian citizenship. There are probably many thousands throughout Australia. For all those people Section 13 of the act is irrelevant, and Section 22 applies. "A person of Thai nationality who has been naturalized as an alien ... SHALL LOSE THAI NATIONALITY".

End of story.

How can you then STILL maintain that Thailand recognises dual nationality?

It DOESN'T (except in special cases).

-------------------------------

All this might seem academic, but I have noticed that a number of posts by you regarding this on TV, all claiming falsely that Thailand recognises dual nationality (without mentioning any exceptions). Going around giving people the impression you can just enjoy the privileges of dual nationality without qualms within Thailand might put some people at risk. If someone was to lose their Thai citizenship because they mistakenly believed what you wrote, how would you feel?

If I were to acquire Thai nationality (not likely) I would of course under no circumstances renounce by original citizenship, but I would be careful about letting any Thai official know I have kept it.

By the way, how did you acquire dual nationality, through birth to 2 Thai parents in a foreign country, through birth to one Thai parent and one foreign parent, or did you naturalise as a Thai?

[samran]

Naiharn, I'll type this slowly so you'll understand it:

I was born in Australia to one Thai parent and an Australian parent.

I aquired Australian citizenship automatically by being born on Australian soil before 25th August 1986 - which were the rules up until that time.

I am Thai by birth, retroactively given to me following the impementation of the third version of the Thai Nationality Act in 1992, when, a friend who worked at the embassy in Canberra rang our family and told us the law had changed, and thus was able to register me as a Thai citizen effectively via applying for a Thai birth certifcate and getting a Thai passport - two decades after I was born.

At the same time, my mother was told by the embassy, that she can apply for a Thai passport given the law effective retroactively returned her Thai citizenship to her after previous versions of the act had cancelled it for marrying a foreigner. She continues to use her Thai passport with her irish sounding surname, and her, along with me and my blond haired blue eyed children are all happily registered on my house book. My children, interestingly, have three citizenships, Thai, Australian and NZ.

I have not made any 'choice' in chosing a natinoality, and since turning 20 I'm on about my 5th Thai passport.

Thailand has no problems with dual citizenship, and to my mind does recognise it. Though I tend not to advertise it, as I run into officals from time to time who have the same antiquated and incorrect interpretation as you, despite it not being not having a clue about nationality law, I have needed to declare it on a number of occasions including:

- entering Thailand for the first time on a Thai passport. The junior officer had the same view as you, I asked to be referred to a senior officer who quickly stamped me into the country

- when applying for my first ID card, the ampur rang immigration to ensure that it was fine for me to have more than one citizenship

- when applying for my wife to be naturalised as a Thai, I have been asked informally by special branch if I had another citizenship. They had no problem with this. Special branch have also confirmed that my wife can continue to hold her NZ citizenship following her Thai citizenship being granted.

But apart from all this, lets go look at what the offical say shall we? Lets start with the Department of Consular Affairs at the Ministry of Foreign affairs. Given you are such an expert, Naiharn, translation won't be necessary for you:

Q:หนังสือเดินทาง : ท่านที่ถือหนังสือเดินทางของชาติอื่นอยู่ จะสามารถยื่นคำร้องขอทำหนังสือเดินทางไทยได้หรือไม่

A: ได้ หากบุคคลนั้นมีสัญชาติไทยก็สามารถยื่นคำร้องขอทำหนังสือเดินทางไทยได้ อย่างไรก็ดี หลายประเทศกำหนดให้บุคคลถือหนังสือเดินทางได้เพียงสัญชาติเดียว และอาจต้องสละสัญชาติอื่นก่อนที่จะขอมีหนังสือเดินทางชาตินั้นๆได้

or this question:

Q:คำถามอื่นๆเกี่ยวกับสัญชาติและนิติกรณ์ : บุคคลที่มีสิทธิได้สัญชาติไทยมาแจ้งเกิดเมื่ออายุเกิน 20 ปีแล้ว สถานทูตจะรับแจ้งเกิดได้หรือไม่ ? และจะถือว่าเป็นการเลือกสัญชาติหรือไม่ ?

A:ได้ เนื่องจากไม่มีข้อห้ามไว้แต่อย่างใด และไม่ถือว่าเป็นการเลือกสัญชาติ

...and lets look at what the practioners are saying:

Q: Does Thailand allow dual nationality?

Does Thailand allow its citizens to have dual nationality? For instance, can a Thai national keep her Thai citizenship and acquire a foreign one? If so, can that person then have two passports?

Answer 1: “Yes, Thai citizens are allowed to have dual nationality and own two passports. If you are born in Thailand and have at least one Thai parent, you automatically have Thai nationality and can apply for a Thai passport. However, if you are only half-Thai and were born and raised aboard, and do not have Thai nationality, you can still get a Thai passport, but must contact the District Office that your Thai parent is registered at and have your name added to the Thai House Registration list.

For more information contact the Phuket Passport Office Monday to Friday 8:30am to 4:30pm at 076-222 081.”

Thursday, October 11, 2012 12:20:07 PM Worrawan Pakamas, Phuket Passport Officer responsible for checking nationality and identity.

Answer 2: “Although you are allowed to own two passports, you must leave Thailand on the same passport you used to enter The Kingdom.”

Thursday, October 11, 2012 12:20:07 PM Lt Col Napat Nusen, Head Supervisor of the Phuket Immigration office.

source: http://www.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/printing.asp?id=1350

And this

Dual nationality for Thais

Q: If a Thai woman marries a man from the US and she later becomes a US citizen, does the Thai woman lose her Thai citizenship?

Answer: “Section 13 of the Citizenship Act 1965 stipulates that a female Thai national who marries a foreigner and is later granted citizenship by her foreign husband’s home country shall maintain her Thai nationality.

There is no Thai law that stipulates that she must lose her Thai citizenship. However, she may choose to revoke her Thai citizenship, a decision the Thai government will announce the Government Gazette.

For Thai children with dual nationality, the Citizenship Act (3rd issue) 1992 states that a Thai national with a foreign father may declare his or her intention to revoke Thai nationality within the year following the child’s 20th birthday.

The law does not mention that the child will automatically have his or her Thai citizenship revoked. If the child does not declare his or her intention to revoke Thai citizenship, that child will still hold Thai nationality.” Monday, April 12, 2004 6:10:26 PM Satchaphand Atthakor, Deputy Director-General, Consular Affairs Department, Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

source: http://www.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=694

Given that I work for the Thai government on a fairly regular basis, one thing that I know is that Thai officals will never put pen to paper on public advice which may turn out to be wrong.

Here I've given you offical sources, and offical comment where dual nationality is openly discussed, and talked about. Now, I don't know what your definition of 'recognise' is, but to my mind, if what I have shown you isn't 'recognition' by the Thai government of dual nationality, then I don't know what is.

So, if it is okay with you, I will continue to advise, quite confidently, that dual citizenship is fine in most cases relevant to TV readers, the execeptions of course being the straight out naturalisation as a foreign national (independent of marriage), and in the case of those natuaralised as Thai's and using their foreign passport to enter Thailand. These exceptions, where relevant, I have always made known. Please press the search engine if you care to disagree.

So if you wish to bang on with your one man show, please do. But please realise this isn't some wink wink nudge nudge thing we have going on here. It is out in the open, and apart from avoiding mentioning the issue to a few obvious recalcitrants like yourself in officaldom, I have no problem in letting people know I have to passports. The most common answer these days is "you are so lucky".

edited for clarity

Edited August 9, 2013 by samran

[asiaexpat]

To add to Samran's detailed post, I have four kid that are all dual nationals (Thai, USA). Three were born in USA. They have not been questioned by either USA or Thailand immigration.

[sagra]

Can some people kindly clarify the dual citizenship/land ownership facts? This has been a very big concern of my wife and I. She is Thai, I am American. After 10 years here she really wants US Citizenship but we have feared she would loose some nice pieces of land she owns in Thailand, (and a very nice house there). Thanks in advance for any information (and links for official information).

[Mario2008]

A Thai with dual nationality is still 100% Thai and doesn't lose any rights. If she gets US-nationality she can keep the property etc without the loss of any rights.

[samran]

Naiharn,

Almost forgot, the guidance provided by the Thai emabassy in Canberra:

MOST ASKED QUESTIONS CONCERNING THAI CITIZENSHIP ISSUES

Q: Whether a person of Thai nationality who has married an alien and has acquired thenationality of his/her spouse, will the Thai spouse lose his/her Thai nationality?

A: The person is still considered a Thai national unless:- He/She desires to renounce Thainationality by declaring his/her intention to the competent authority. -His/Her Thai

nationality is revoked by the Government of the Kingdom of Thailand

source: http://canberra.thaiembassy.org/doc/info/info_migration.pdf

[lopburi3]

A Thai with dual nationality is still 100% Thai and doesn't lose any rights. If she gets US-nationality she can keep the property etc without the loss of any rights.

As said she retains ownership and can still buy new land but for that the marriage provision of joint property comes into effect so money must be declared as hers and foreign spouse must acknowledge they do not have joint ownership of the land (in case of death and inheritance would have to be sold within one year is my understanding).

[naiharn]

Samran,

Thank you for your detailed post.

From this I learnt

- you first acquired Thai citizenship when you were at least 20 years old (you imply you

were over 20 years old). Therefore section 14

of the Act (or the equivalent at the time) never applied to you. Unless the law

is changed, section 14 will affect your children, who will have to decide whether to

either obey the law and renounce either their foreign citizenship(s) or their Thai one, or

skirt around the law and hope for the best.

- section 22 applies to any Thai Visa readers who have acquired

Thai citizenship without having a Thai parent. I think we are in agreeement that Thailand DOES not

(officially) recognise dual nationality in this case.

- despite your loud claims on this forum that Thailand has dual nationality, you feel the need to keep your status quiet. Why? We both know the reason. Even though, in practice, many Thai officials don't know the law and act as though Thailand has full dual nationality, there is that nasty thing lingering in the background: the written law, which says something different

- I can't understand this bit: "despite it not being not having a clue about nationality law," - perhaps you

were typing too fast

- you admit having met Thai officials who have actually acted according to the written law.

You regard this view, and mine, as 'antiquated', even 'recalcitrant'! Friend, my current view of dual nationality in Thailand will become antiquated when the Thai Parliament passes a new act rescinding sections 14, 21 and 22 of the current one.

Finally, you needn't have worried about quoting stuff in Thai. I can read Thai, but I don't claim to be an expert in this or (despite your sarcastic comment) in any other field.

Edited August 12, 2013 by naiharn

[samran]

I got my Thai birth certificate before 20 naiharn. My first three Thai passports were gotten through the Thai embassy.

I keep the fact that I have dual citizenship relatively quiet, so for instance the drivers license department head can't pull me aside and tell me that I can't apply for my drivers license like he once did.

But the people who count, immigration, special branch, where i have my house registraiton, the thai embassy in canberra and the consuel general in melbourne all have asked and I have told them the truth. I fly a dozen times per year and give both passports to the airline.

For some reason the verification from the quotes I have mean nothing to you. That is fine. I'll continue to live my life like I have for the past 22 odd years. Thousands do as I do.

As an aside, my aunt who has lived in OZ since he 70s was up this week to get her first Thai ID card since she left for oz back then and married her Australian husband. You know what the ampur found acceptable ID to process her new tabien baan and ID card? Her Australian passport.