Insensitive or ignorant ?

[johna]

It is actually yourself that is showing the ignorance. This symbol has different variations. The one on the side of the car is the following :

This particular version of the Swastika symbolizes Harmony. It is used by Hindus to show their devotion to peace and harmony to all creatures, by devotion to the Hindu God, Lord Ganesha. A growing religion in Thailand.

Its extremely unlikely that this symbol is being used to show their devotion to the nazis. Quite the opposite in fact.

The Swastika has been used thousands of years before Adolf Hitler took it for his political symbolism.

Dont be offended, it is not intended as an offence and they are not showing ignorance because it means a completely different meaning to them, in their own country, that it does to me and you visiting a country thousands of miles away from where it would be deemed offensive.

Devotion to Ganesha is widely diffused and extends to Jains, Buddhists, and beyond India.^%5B5%5D

Although he is known by many attributes, Ganesha's elephant head makes him easy to identify.^%5B6%5D Ganesha is widely revered as the remover of obstacles,^%5B7%5D the patron of arts and sciences and the deva of intellect and wisdom.^%5B8%5D As the god of beginnings, he is honoured at the start of rituals and ceremonies. Ganesha is also invoked as patron of letters and learning during writing sessions.^{%5B9%5D%5B10%5D} Several texts relate mythological anecdotes associated with his birth and exploits and explain his distinct iconography.

Ganesha emerged as a distinct deity in the 4th and 5th centuries CE, during the Gupta Period, although he inherited traits from Vedic and pre-Vedic precursors.^%5B11%5D He was formally included among the five primary deities of Smartism (a Hindu denomination) in the 9th century. A sect of devotees called the Ganapatya arose, who identified Ganesha as the supreme deity.^%5B12%5D The principal scriptures dedicated to Ganesha are the Ganesha Purana, the Mudgala Purana, and the Ganapati Atharvashirsa.

I am well aware of the "age" of the symbol, if you care to read the last few words of my OP it kind of states my point "what that sign represents to many people."

great then you should understand that Nazi Germany did not invade any Asia country, and that Asians are not obsessed with the Holocaust.

[aussieinthailand]

It is actually yourself that is showing the ignorance. This symbol has different variations. The one on the side of the car is the following :

This particular version of the Swastika symbolizes Harmony. It is used by Hindus to show their devotion to peace and harmony to all creatures, by devotion to the Hindu God, Lord Ganesha. A growing religion in Thailand.

Its extremely unlikely that this symbol is being used to show their devotion to the nazis. Quite the opposite in fact.

The Swastika has been used thousands of years before Adolf Hitler took it for his political symbolism.

Dont be offended, it is not intended as an offence and they are not showing ignorance because it means a completely different meaning to them, in their own country, that it does to me and you visiting a country thousands of miles away from where it would be deemed offensive.

Devotion to Ganesha is widely diffused and extends to Jains, Buddhists, and beyond India.^[5]

Although he is known by many attributes, Ganesha's elephant head makes him easy to identify.^[6] Ganesha is widely revered as the remover of obstacles,^[7] the patron of arts and sciences and the deva of intellect and wisdom.^[8] As the god of beginnings, he is honoured at the start of rituals and ceremonies. Ganesha is also invoked as patron of letters and learning during writing sessions.^[9][10] Several texts relate mythological anecdotes associated with his birth and exploits and explain his distinct iconography.

Ganesha emerged as a distinct deity in the 4th and 5th centuries CE, during the Gupta Period, although he inherited traits from Vedic and pre-Vedic precursors.^[11] He was formally included among the five primary deities of Smartism (a Hindu denomination) in the 9th century. A sect of devotees called the Ganapatya arose, who identified Ganesha as the supreme deity.^[12] The principal scriptures dedicated to Ganesha are the Ganesha Purana, the Mudgala Purana, and the Ganapati Atharvashirsa.

I am well aware of the "age" of the symbol, if you care to read the last few words of my OP it kind of states my point .

I read your OP and to me the symbol as illustrated promotes harmony.

Please forgive my ignorance,

but I was under the impression that the nazis inverted the swastika which changes the meaning, there for not a symbol of harmony.

[simple1]

It is actually yourself that is showing the ignorance. This symbol has different variations. The one on the side of the car is the following :

This particular version of the Swastika symbolizes Harmony. It is used by Hindus to show their devotion to peace and harmony to all creatures, by devotion to the Hindu God, Lord Ganesha. A growing religion in Thailand.

Its extremely unlikely that this symbol is being used to show their devotion to the nazis. Quite the opposite in fact.

The Swastika has been used thousands of years before Adolf Hitler took it for his political symbolism.

Dont be offended, it is not intended as an offence and they are not showing ignorance because it means a completely different meaning to them, in their own country, that it does to me and you visiting a country thousands of miles away from where it would be deemed offensive.

Devotion to Ganesha is widely diffused and extends to Jains, Buddhists, and beyond India.^[5]

Although he is known by many attributes, Ganesha's elephant head makes him easy to identify.^[6] Ganesha is widely revered as the remover of obstacles,^[7] the patron of arts and sciences and the deva of intellect and wisdom.^[8] As the god of beginnings, he is honoured at the start of rituals and ceremonies. Ganesha is also invoked as patron of letters and learning during writing sessions.^[9][10] Several texts relate mythological anecdotes associated with his birth and exploits and explain his distinct iconography.

Ganesha emerged as a distinct deity in the 4th and 5th centuries CE, during the Gupta Period, although he inherited traits from Vedic and pre-Vedic precursors.^[11] He was formally included among the five primary deities of Smartism (a Hindu denomination) in the 9th century. A sect of devotees called the Ganapatya arose, who identified Ganesha as the supreme deity.^[12] The principal scriptures dedicated to Ganesha are the Ganesha Purana, the Mudgala Purana, and the Ganapati Atharvashirsa.

As others have said knowledge of the swastica symbol being used in Hinduism and Buddhism is relatively common knowledge. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but having the swastica right facing at a 45 degree angle is used by the Nazi party, not by Hindus and Buddhists?

Edited September 17, 2013 by simple1

[GuestHouse]

The argument that the Swastika is being used as a long standing and ancient religious symbol would stand up if the swastika was indeed commonly used as a religious symbol in Thailand.

It is not.

I'd go as far as to say that I can't actually recall ever seeing a swastika in a religious context in Thailand, it certainly does not adorn temples and religious buildings/art in the same way as it does in parts of India and Indonesia.

It follows then that the religion in Thailand cannot reliably be seen as a source of the use of this symbol whereas we know from numerous examples that Nazi symbology is persistent in its attraction, in Thailand and elsewhere.

A point to consider is that in a country where Nationalism is the core of all the political parties and central to the national education programs many of the themes of the Nazi movement will strike a cord with nationalist views here in Thailand.

That is by no means to say that Thais are Nazis, far from it, but given the poor standards of education in Thailand a thin understanding of the history of Nazism might very well leave people with an admiration of the nationalism and the glamour of the uniform/symbology but absolutely no understanding of the unimaginable destruction and deprivation the Nazis brought upon the west and humanity.

The Nazis grew out of the post WWI settlement, built on nationalism it sold a lie to the German people, and others beyond.

The argument that Thais and Thailand was not affected, misses the real history of WWII (but that history is not taught in Thailand) and it misses the point that Thailand sits bang square in the middle of a region that is swamped with nationalism and fierce competition for resources, a region in which the populations have yet to learn to question and challenge their governments, a region which has many parallels, politically, socially and economically to that of Europe in the period before WWI.

Regardless of whether Thais in general know the recent history of the swastika, it would be in their very best interests if they did.

[StreetCowboy]

The argument that the Swastika is being used as a long standing and ancient religious symbol would stand up if the swastika was indeed commonly used as a religious symbol in Thailand.

It is not.

I'd go as far as to say that I can't actually recall ever seeing a swastika in a religious context in Thailand, it certainly does not adorn temples and religious buildings/art in the same way as it does in parts of India and Indonesia.

It follows then that the religion in Thailand cannot reliably be seen as a source of the use of this symbol whereas we know from numerous examples that Nazi symbology is persistent in its attraction, in Thailand and elsewhere.

A point to consider is that in a country where Nationalism is the core of all the political parties and central to the national education programs many of the themes of the Nazi movement will strike a cord with nationalist views here in Thailand.

That is by no means to say that Thais are Nazis, far from it, but given the poor standards of education in Thailand a thin understanding of the history of Nazism might very well leave people with an admiration of the nationalism and the glamour of the uniform/symbology but absolutely no understanding of the unimaginable destruction and deprivation the Nazis brought upon the west and humanity.

The Nazis grew out of the post WWI settlement, built on nationalism it sold a lie to the German people, and others beyond.

The argument that Thais and Thailand was not affected, misses the real history of WWII (but that history is not taught in Thailand) and it misses the point that Thailand sits bang square in the middle of a region that is swamped with nationalism and fierce competition for resources, a region in which the populations have yet to learn to question and challenge their governments, a region which has many parallels, politically, socially and economically to that of Europe in the period before WWI.

Regardless of whether Thais in general know the recent history of the swastika, it would be in their very best interests if they did.

I have quite often seen swastikas around temples in Thailand, Hong Kong and Malaysia; predominantly in Chinese religious places, I think. Charities, hospitals and the like, if I recall correctly

[HeijoshinCool]

It is actually yourself that is showing the ignorance. This symbol has different variations. The one on the side of the car is the following :

This particular version of the Swastika symbolizes Harmony. It is used by Hindus to show their devotion to peace and harmony to all creatures, by devotion to the Hindu God, Lord Ganesha. A growing religion in Thailand.

Its extremely unlikely that this symbol is being used to show their devotion to the nazis. Quite the opposite in fact.

The Swastika has been used thousands of years before Adolf Hitler took it for his political symbolism.

Dont be offended, it is not intended as an offence and they are not showing ignorance because it means a completely different meaning to them, in their own country, that it does to me and you visiting a country thousands of miles away from where it would be deemed offensive.

Devotion to Ganesha is widely diffused and extends to Jains, Buddhists, and beyond India.^[5]

Although he is known by many attributes, Ganesha's elephant head makes him easy to identify.^[6] Ganesha is widely revered as the remover of obstacles,^[7] the patron of arts and sciences and the deva of intellect and wisdom.^[8] As the god of beginnings, he is honoured at the start of rituals and ceremonies. Ganesha is also invoked as patron of letters and learning during writing sessions.^[9][10] Several texts relate mythological anecdotes associated with his birth and exploits and explain his distinct iconography.

Ganesha emerged as a distinct deity in the 4th and 5th centuries CE, during the Gupta Period, although he inherited traits from Vedic and pre-Vedic precursors.^[11] He was formally included among the five primary deities of Smartism (a Hindu denomination) in the 9th century. A sect of devotees called the Ganapatya arose, who identified Ganesha as the supreme deity.^[12] The principal scriptures dedicated to Ganesha are the Ganesha Purana, the Mudgala Purana, and the Ganapati Atharvashirsa.

I am well aware of the "age" of the symbol, if you care to read the last few words of my OP it kind of states my point .

I read your OP and to me the symbol as illustrated promotes harmony.

Well, then it's about time a new design was thought up, so all this disharmony can cease.

By the way, I've got a bridge for sale .....

[GuestHouse]

I have quite often seen swastikas around temples in Thailand, Hong Kong and Malaysia; predominantly in Chinese religious places, I think. Charities, hospitals and the like, if I recall correctly

Let's keep this focussed on Thailand.

The use of swastikas in Thai religious buildings and art is rare and no way can be regarded as a dominant cultural norm. It simply does not exist in any significant number.

[NoshowJones]

It is actually yourself that is showing the ignorance. This symbol has different variations. The one on the side of the car is the following :

This particular version of the Swastika symbolizes Harmony. It is used by Hindus to show their devotion to peace and harmony to all creatures, by devotion to the Hindu God, Lord Ganesha. A growing religion in Thailand.

Its extremely unlikely that this symbol is being used to show their devotion to the nazis. Quite the opposite in fact.

The Swastika has been used thousands of years before Adolf Hitler took it for his political symbolism.

Dont be offended, it is not intended as an offence and they are not showing ignorance because it means a completely different meaning to them, in their own country, that it does to me and you visiting a country thousands of miles away from where it would be deemed offensive.

Devotion to Ganesha is widely diffused and extends to Jains, Buddhists, and beyond India.^[5]

Although he is known by many attributes, Ganesha's elephant head makes him easy to identify.^[6] Ganesha is widely revered as the remover of obstacles,^[7] the patron of arts and sciences and the deva of intellect and wisdom.^[8] As the god of beginnings, he is honoured at the start of rituals and ceremonies. Ganesha is also invoked as patron of letters and learning during writing sessions.^[9][10] Several texts relate mythological anecdotes associated with his birth and exploits and explain his distinct iconography.

Ganesha emerged as a distinct deity in the 4th and 5th centuries CE, during the Gupta Period, although he inherited traits from Vedic and pre-Vedic precursors.^[11] He was formally included among the five primary deities of Smartism (a Hindu denomination) in the 9th century. A sect of devotees called the Ganapatya arose, who identified Ganesha as the supreme deity.^[12] The principal scriptures dedicated to Ganesha are the Ganesha Purana, the Mudgala Purana, and the Ganapati Atharvashirsa.

If what you say is really true, then you have a "like" from me.

[h90]

Another swastika thread - is it Monday already?

If I would get 1 Baht for every time that 70 year old topic get warmed up again, I would be richer than Bill Gates.

[samran]

For the Thai apologists that insist they are using the Hindu symbol...don't be so naive!

No, it is the Nazi Swastika hijacked as a fad. People aren't flying them and then going out and bashing up non-whites. Its relegated the Nazi inspired swastika to the same status as 'Hello Kitty'. Where it rightly belongs.

Do I thiink it is a good look in the eyes of the rest of the world? No.

Do I think use of this symbol is somehow an indication of the rise of intolerance in Thailand? No.

[samran]

Another swastika thread - is it Monday already?

If I would get 1 Baht for every time that 70 year old topic get warmed up again, I would be richer than Bill Gates.

Someone from the UK will be along soon to link it to UK refugees and how Luton has been over run by immigrants.

[farang000999]

There were too many foreigners in Liverpool so I moved to Pattaya.

[Berkshire]

It is actually yourself that is showing the ignorance. This symbol has different variations. The one on the side of the car is the following :

This particular version of the Swastika symbolizes Harmony. It is used by Hindus to show their devotion to peace and harmony to all creatures, by devotion to the Hindu God, Lord Ganesha. A growing religion in Thailand.

Its extremely unlikely that this symbol is being used to show their devotion to the nazis. Quite the opposite in fact.

The Swastika has been used thousands of years before Adolf Hitler took it for his political symbolism.

Dont be offended, it is not intended as an offence and they are not showing ignorance because it means a completely different meaning to them, in their own country, that it does to me and you visiting a country thousands of miles away from where it would be deemed offensive.

Devotion to Ganesha is widely diffused and extends to Jains, Buddhists, and beyond India.^%5B5%5D

Although he is known by many attributes, Ganesha's elephant head makes him easy to identify.^%5B6%5D Ganesha is widely revered as the remover of obstacles,^%5B7%5D the patron of arts and sciences and the deva of intellect and wisdom.^%5B8%5D As the god of beginnings, he is honoured at the start of rituals and ceremonies. Ganesha is also invoked as patron of letters and learning during writing sessions.^{%5B9%5D%5B10%5D} Several texts relate mythological anecdotes associated with his birth and exploits and explain his distinct iconography.

Ganesha emerged as a distinct deity in the 4th and 5th centuries CE, during the Gupta Period, although he inherited traits from Vedic and pre-Vedic precursors.^%5B11%5D He was formally included among the five primary deities of Smartism (a Hindu denomination) in the 9th century. A sect of devotees called the Ganapatya arose, who identified Ganesha as the supreme deity.^%5B12%5D The principal scriptures dedicated to Ganesha are the Ganesha Purana, the Mudgala Purana, and the Ganapati Atharvashirsa.

I am well aware of the "age" of the symbol, if you care to read the last few words of my OP it kind of states my point "what that sign represents to many people."

great then you should understand that Nazi Germany did not invade any Asia country, and that Asians are not obsessed with the Holocaust.

Perhaps CharlieH will acknowledge his ignorance of Asian history and significant events which may resonate with those in the region. Or perhaps he is insensitive to Asian culture and beliefs in general.

[farang000999]

Yeah I can't think of any excuse why Nazi Germany would not be covered at some point in the Thai educational system besides that the powers to be that control Thailand deem it dangerous for the minds of the students. I don't think criticism of nationalism, racism and fascism mend well with the rest of the scheduled programming.

[LaraC]

Thai people think Hitler (as an image) is comical.

They are insensitively ignorant about Hitler, the Nazi's, and what the swastika commonly represents.
Most would likely be shocked if made aware.

For those thinking deeply with regards to Thai using the image as an ancient symbol, you really think they are thinking that deeply?
its a "fun" and "cool" image in their eyes. Period.

Does that make it ok? NO.

But its not meant as disrectful. Its just utter cluelessness.

[cpofc]

There is a wealth of information available on the net about this symbol, which has many different names in many different cultures.

It's known use dates back to 1000 BC and even pre dates the Egyption Symbol of Ankh

The notrorious Nazi version was just a very good and effective marketing exercise.

http://www.intelinet.org/swastika/swas_krohn.html

There is a great debate as to what the swastika means now. For 3,000 years, the swastika meant life and good luck. But because of the Nazis, it has also taken on a meaning of death and hate.

These conflicting meanings are causing problems in today's society. For Buddhists and Hindus, the swastika is a very religious symbol that is commonly used. Chirag Badlani shares a story about one time when he went to make some photocopies of some Hindu Gods for his temple. While standing in line to pay for the photocopies, some people behind him in line noticed that one of the pictures had a swastika. They called him a Nazi.

Unfortunately, the Nazis were so effective at their use of the swastika emblem, that many do not even know any other meaning for the swastika.

[kannot]

I read your OP and to me the symbol as illustrated promotes harmony.

So, you are voting "Ignorance" then - as you say, to the owner it is harmony , and s/he is ignorant of the fact that it is offensive to many people (as opposed to knowing but not caring about the offensiveness - insensative). Which is what the OP asked.

I find it highly offensive that people go around telling me as a FACT there is a GOD but I dont say anything about it to them.

Erm OK - seems a little over sensitive to take offense at other's belief, but fine - and your point is?

its a "belief" only,I can tell you the Earth is going to end next week as my "belief "with no facts to back any of it up, will you trust me to do my job on the last day of my belief as the clock strikes midnight as I fly your plane.

FACT and "belief", belief implying no evidence at all which religions have in abundance relying instead on vague words like " faith"

The world should dump all religions and start looking solely at facts and logical thinking and not "beliefs", we'd all be better off then.

[CharlieH]

English: Swastika It symbolizes Harmony, Lord Ganesh has it on his right hand. Differs from other uses of swastika by the four dots inside each of the four arms. Also, it is always drawn with the four inner arms at 0, 90, 180 and 270 degrees on the compass, unlike other inscriptions where the inner arms are in the form of an 'X'.

[ETatBKK]

if he/she dare to drive it into US !!

I should hope nothing would happen...

Country of free speech and all.. Country that has people screaming on the street at peoples funerals, calling for the death of gay people.... I doubt a Nazi Symbol on a car would really cause much issue....

Recent times have proven the Americans are quite hypocritical though, and uncaring for their 'beliefs'... So, yeah, not much in that country surprises me....

yeah, freedom of speech, and freedom of expression, that's it. I may guess a car as such, it won't last too long on any American road.

[poanoi]

 

If someone wore a Chairman Mao/Stalin/Che Guevara t-shirt you wouldn't bat an eyelid.

Mao or Stalin I would think "idiot".

Che Guevara...no I wouldn't think badly of them.

Che was a freedom fighter who has the best interests of the poor at heart not some scum bag dictator who mistreated people or told them what to think or else.

You sure you aren't confusing Guevara with Castro?

 

Oh my gawd...Che wanted a country he could call His.

[poanoi]

 

Thai people think Hitler (as an image) is comical.

They are insensitively ignorant about Hitler, the Nazi's, and what the swastika commonly represents.

Most would likely be shocked if made aware.

For those thinking deeply with regards to Thai using the image as an ancient symbol, you really think they are thinking that deeply?

its a "fun" and "cool" image in their eyes. Period.

Does that make it ok? NO.

But its not meant as disrectful. Its just utter cluelessness.

 

You mean to say Thai's are so totally uneducated so they havn't got the slightest clue about anything ?

[h90]

English: Swastika It symbolizes Harmony, Lord Ganesh has it on his right hand. Differs from other uses of swastika by the four dots inside each of the four arms. Also, it is always drawn with the four inner arms at 0, 90, 180 and 270 degrees on the compass, unlike other inscriptions where the inner arms are in the form of an 'X'.

142px-HinduSwastika.svg.png

you find Hindu Swastikas drawn in different directions and angles.

Hotel Swastika in Bali had a while ago a long text about different Hindu Swastikas and their different meanings.

But unfortunately they removed the page.

I saw the Swastika exactly like Hitler had it, even with the ring around it on an old temple in Bali.....It seems only the Europeans are paranoid about it.

[farang000999]

Che was really great for that region of the world and what transpired over the next 50 years and still on going. A real Saint.

[brewsterbudgen]

Obviously very few TV members were punks.

[farang000999]

Conforming non-conformists. Those punks moved quickly into advertising marketing and politics. What the kids want is to not be like Mom and Dad, while living off of Mom and Dad.

[dogeatdog]

Ignorance is sometimes bliss. Or so they say.

Really I feel this is just a passing trend. The use of the swastika in the same orientation as used by the former 3rd riech is ment to be exactly that and nothing to do with religion.

This symbol in that orentation was only ever used by the nazi party and then the 3rd riech.

From time to time the same old symbol gets picked up by some individuals and is used for all sorts of reasons and for now it seems to be common too see it here in thailand.

What we all must remember is that this particular period of our world history is not taught in any depth here and I beleave most thai people could not even give the briefest of accounts in to what that sign symbolizes in the west. So yes I guess ignorance maybe true.

Lets not forget the differences in our history's and culture's. What is offensive in one country may not be in another.

Im sure if I wore a tee shirt mocking an asian religion in the uk, us or europe no one will take too much notice. But if I was to wear it here i proberbly cause great offence and so vice versa.

The images of hitter for instance.

The British have been drawing cartoon pictures of this guy for nearly 80 years. He has a very comical appearance and for that reason alone people have used it in humor for decade's including a member of the british royal family.

Before just recent times in thailand most thai people could proberbly not pic Hittler out in a line up.

But now they find his face funny and peculiar to look at in the same way as they do mr bean and we can thank social media for this.

But still I bet most people who wear this type of 'T'shirt have no idea who he really is.

Lets look at this one.

According to wiki designed 1939, rediscovered 2000 and highlighted in 2012 by the bbc.

No one saw this slogan for nearly 70 years and now its everywhere for sale. I bet if you ask thai people of its origins they could not tell you.

This is just a passing trend forget it and it will pass.

This is my passport from a few years ago look at the stamp should I have been offended by this too??

[taotoo]

Another Hindu symbol:

[arminbkk]

Let's assume it is mostly due to ignorance on the part of the Thais (which it proably is): if explaining to them the western view of the symbol,

how many Thais afterwards you think will actually have a change of heart regarding using the symbol?

Some of them might argue, well this is Thailand not the West and we like this symbol so will keep using it.

Would you still insist or leave it at that, since it is after all their country?

[GuestHouse]

Let's assume it is mostly due to ignorance on the part of the Thais (which it proably is): if explaining to them the western view of the symbol,

how many Thais afterwards you think will actually have a change of heart regarding using the symbol?

Some of them might argue, well this is Thailand not the West and we like this symbol so will keep using it.

Would you still insist or leave it at that, since it is after all their country?

And the next step in that argument is we should not as foreigners criticise anything Thai people do in their own country.

[GuestHouse]

Cast your mind back to when Thais became deeply ofended by the appearance of Buddha bars in the west, to the point of calling for sanctions against the countries that allowed such offence to Thai sensibilities.

It is not a one way street.