Protest veteran blames educational failures for modern youth's lack of political activism

[webfact]

Protest veteran blames educational failures for modern youth's lack of political activism
Arkom Chaiyasorn
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Forty years ago, Admiral Phajun Tamprateep, former chief of the General Prem Tinsulanonda Foundation, was among student activists who campaigned against the military dictatorship although he was a naval cadet.

Now, Phajun regrets that young Thais are not as active in politics as students were in 1973.

He is also sorry that young people do not recognise how the October 14 student uprising is important for Thais.

Phajun recounted that he was in his third year of studies at the Royal Thai Naval Academy and he sneaked out to join the demonstrations at the Democracy Monument in Bangkok.

"I admired Thirayuth Boonmee, Chiranan Pitpreecha and Seksan Prasertkul. I skipped classes to follow these student leaders and my friend, Vice Admiral Theprangsun Silapabanleng, also joined me at the rally."

Phajun said he felt the student leaders were great and brave, and he later found out that it was education that prompted students activists to come out to fight for democracy.

Phajun said the curriculum in those days encouraged people to be active in politics, and those who were students in the 1970s, and who are now over 60 years old, are still politically active and join political rallies.

But the current political rallies fail to draw support from students or youth now because they have been educated that democracy means elections.

"This is a mistake of the adults for failing to instil the principle in children," Phajun said.

He noted that a lot of young people joined the campaigns against the Mae Wong Dam because they regarded environmental issues as their duty, while politics is not.

"I am not blaming them. It's because we have not taught them," Phajun said.

While pro-democracy student activists of the 1970s campaigned against the influence of the military in politics, General Boonlert Kaewprasit, chairman of the Pitak Siam group, said the military was currently idle, in a posture of waiting and seeing, and indecisive when it should have taken a stance.

Boonlert, who led an anti-government rally last year, still wants the military to stage a coup against the government of Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra. He said the military must do so because Parliament cannot solve political problems.

He said he believed that student activists would eventually hold massive protests because they would not be able to tolerate Yingluck's government.

But Boonlert saw that the military regime of Field Marshal Thanom Kittikhachorn was toppled not only because of the force of the student activists but also because of the rifts within the military itself, and the government at that time agreed to step down for the sake of the country.

He said the situation was different for the Thaksin Shinawatra government and that of his sister, as they would not step down for the sake of the country. So the military should step in to seize power.

-- The Nation 2013-10-12

[JetsetBkk]

Perhaps "modern youth" have learnt from the events of October 6th 1976?

RIP 40 - 100+ souls.

[NongKhaiKid]

As ever activism is only acceptable if you pick the ' right ' issue or cause.

To balance the Admiral's comments it's only a few weeks ago the government was warning students to keep out of the rubber farmers' protests.

[jaltsc]

"Phajun said he felt the student leaders were great and brave, and he later found out that it was education that prompted students activists to come out to fight for democracy...But the current political rallies fail to draw support from students or youth now because they have been educated that democracy means elections."

This is the main reason why many governments around the world (including the U.S) discourage open minded and liberal arts education.

[waza]

While pro-democracy student activists of the 1970s campaigned against the influence of the military in politics, General Boonlert Kaewprasit, chairman of the Pitak Siam group, said the military was currently idle, in a posture of waiting and seeing, and indecisive when it should have taken a stance.

The military is doing what it should be doing, preparing to defend Thailand and performing humanitarian programs. It should never be an agent of political change.

[upena]

Why does every Thai insist on calling the events of 14 October 1973 (actually around 6-15 October) as an "uprising". Thai students and then your average Thai citizen overthrew the corrupt, dictatorial government of Thanom Kittikachorn, his son, and General Phrapas. This was way more than an uprising and hundreds, perhaps thousands, died when Army gunships opened fire at a crowd estimated to be 100,00, 200,000 or 500,000 - take your pick. This was more of a coup and then a massacre than an uprising.

[Curt1591]

I think the lack of participation is due to the lack of accomplishments by all "protest du jour" clowns that gather ad nauseam. Most people, at least those with a life, are pretty sick and tired of them.

[h90]

I think the lack of participation is due to the lack of accomplishments by all "protest du jour" clowns that gather ad nauseam. Most people, at least those with a life, are pretty sick and tired of them.

yes that is true but the problem is that they are complete free of ideology (beside Apple, Samsung, etc etc).

Not left not right, not nationalistic not anarchistic....no nothing....

[tubby johnson]

Education systems worldwide are increasingly treated as job training schemes. They emphasize science, maths, engineering and accounting in order for kids to sit in offices, keep the wheels of the economy turning and grab as much cash as they can before their bodies wear out. Tying them down with mortgages and student loans will keep them in line, under the thumb of their masters.

Studying an open-minded, liberal arts degree and questioning the establishment are discouraged. Mobile apps and games help to distract and tame today's youth.

[Tatsujin]

General Boonlert Kaewprasit seems to be encouraging a coup by his words (if they are accurate) . . . how long before he gets arrested? I'm giving 5-1 odds that it's within a week . . .

[tragickingdom]

"The General Prem Tinsulanonda Foundation?" If the name is anything to go by it is a foundation that is catering to coup makers and dedicated to ready unelected prime ministers as he was himself.

Political activism in the name of Prem means fighting the people, supporting coups and passing laws that protect killers.

[steveyinasia]

Why blame education for the lack of interest in political activities, it is a case of apathy, the average Thai does not care to do their own research about politics. Even picking up a newspaper, however bias they may be, is a challenge

[h90]

"The General Prem Tinsulanonda Foundation?" If the name is anything to go by it is a foundation that is catering to coup makers and dedicated to ready unelected prime ministers as he was himself.

Political activism in the name of Prem means fighting the people, supporting coups and passing laws that protect killers.

Put under Premier Prem was the best time for Thailand, stable, safe and good developing. Having a coup is anyway better having the Shin Dynasty controlling Thailand in a North Korea style.

[h90]

Why blame education for the lack of interest in political activities, it is a case of apathy, the average Thai does not care to do their own research about politics. Even picking up a newspaper, however bias they may be, is a challenge

Sure the education is to be blamed. Even limited when I went to school in Europe, we read sometimes newspaper and discussed it under "political education". We had to learn the parties and what they stand for.

I doubt it will like magic change the iphone generation into political activists but it is a beginning.

I don't think something like that happens in Thailand.

[LuukKoeyKorat]

100% spot on, well said.

While pro-democracy student activists of the 1970s campaigned against the influence of the military in politics, General Boonlert Kaewprasit, chairman of the Pitak Siam group, said the military was currently idle, in a posture of waiting and seeing, and indecisive when it should have taken a stance.

The military is doing what it should be doing, preparing to defend Thailand and performing humanitarian programs. It should never be an agent of political change.

[h90]

100% spot on, well said.

While pro-democracy student activists of the 1970s campaigned against the influence of the military in politics, General Boonlert Kaewprasit, chairman of the Pitak Siam group, said the military was currently idle, in a posture of waiting and seeing, and indecisive when it should have taken a stance.

The military is doing what it should be doing, preparing to defend Thailand and performing humanitarian programs. It should never be an agent of political change.

Yes defend Thailand.....

[JJttttt1]

This is the main reason why many governments around the world (including the U.S) discourage open minded and liberal arts education.

and this is good, governments learned a lesson not to grow leftist rebels for the expenses of a society.

it seems to me, If there would be a yellow government now, this admiral would change his opinion about student protestors immediately.

[hellodolly]

Why blame education for the lack of interest in political activities, it is a case of apathy, the average Thai does not care to do their own research about politics. Even picking up a newspaper, however bias they may be, is a challenge

The average Thai now a days equates politics to corruption and they don't need to study that. In the last 13 years politics has gone from ideals to corruption. The electronic age has made it so easy to see the inability to ever attain an ideal so they give up they see the corruption where as before it was some thing they talked about in groups.

Now they turn on the internet and see the corruption. The students in the 70s had ideals to talk about to strive for. They may have never been attainable but they at least tried. Now a days we get students with one ideal serve the time and get the diploma and get money. If they even bother to look at politics all they see is corruption and thanks to the western culture's influence on the Thai culture they see materialism make money buy things ideals don't count.

This is the main reason why many governments around the world (including the U.S) discourage open minded and liberal arts education.

and this is good, governments learned a lesson not to grow leftist rebels for the expenses of a society.

it seems to me, If there would be a yellow government now, this admiral would change his opinion about student protestors immediately.

The right wing ideas have turned the earth into a garden of Eden. Not We need left wing thinking people. A group of dedicated left wingers can bring forth change. They will be tempered by the right wing but they at least give us a chance to grow and change.

Look at what a dedicated group of right wingers have done in the states by refusing to negotiate. They shut the government down. The tail wagging the dog. Here we need a dedicated group of left wingers who refuse to negotiate. People willing to stand fast to their principals and morals. We don't find that here it is all about power in are government. If we were to have an election tomorrow it would be a vote between two power hungry groups. The choice would not be who can do the most and the best for Thailand it would be who can do the least damage. I am talking about a real vote not a bought vote or one where they say give me six months and I will make you all rich.

Much as it goes against my grain and the way I have always thought I have to agree we need the students to discuss politics they are the future. The present Education system will turn out no leaders just yes people and how much is it going to cost me and what am I going to get in return.

I don't care how rich people are all I care about is them staying out of politics and allowing honest people in. If that is achieved the students will sit up and take notice and interest in politics again.

[Skywalker69]

As ever activism is only acceptable if you pick the ' right ' issue or cause.

To balance the Admiral's comments it's only a few weeks ago the government was warning students to keep out of the rubber farmers' protests.

Or if you have the right colour on your shirt.

[Thai at Heart]

Why blame education for the lack of interest in political activities, it is a case of apathy, the average Thai does not care to do their own research about politics. Even picking up a newspaper, however bias they may be, is a challenge

The average Thai now a days equates politics to corruption and they don't need to study that. In the last 13 years politics has gone from ideals to corruption. The electronic age has made it so easy to see the inability to ever attain an ideal so they give up they see the corruption where as before it was some thing they talked about in groups.

Now they turn on the internet and see the corruption. The students in the 70s had ideals to talk about to strive for. They may have never been attainable but they at least tried. Now a days we get students with one ideal serve the time and get the diploma and get money. If they even bother to look at politics all they see is corruption and thanks to the western culture's influence on the Thai culture they see materialism make money buy things ideals don't count.

This is the main reason why many governments around the world (including the U.S) discourage open minded and liberal arts education.

and this is good, governments learned a lesson not to grow leftist rebels for the expenses of a society.

it seems to me, If there would be a yellow government now, this admiral would change his opinion about student protestors immediately.

The right wing ideas have turned the earth into a garden of Eden. Not We need left wing thinking people. A group of dedicated left wingers can bring forth change. They will be tempered by the right wing but they at least give us a chance to grow and change.

Look at what a dedicated group of right wingers have done in the states by refusing to negotiate. They shut the government down. The tail wagging the dog. Here we need a dedicated group of left wingers who refuse to negotiate. People willing to stand fast to their principals and morals. We don't find that here it is all about power in are government. If we were to have an election tomorrow it would be a vote between two power hungry groups. The choice would not be who can do the most and the best for Thailand it would be who can do the least damage. I am talking about a real vote not a bought vote or one where they say give me six months and I will make you all rich.

Much as it goes against my grain and the way I have always thought I have to agree we need the students to discuss politics they are the future. The present Education system will turn out no leaders just yes people and how much is it going to cost me and what am I going to get in return.

I don't care how rich people are all I care about is them staying out of politics and allowing honest people in. If that is achieved the students will sit up and take notice and interest in politics again.

Hey I would be happy if they could find one politician globallt who worked to serve the country and couldn't be got at by Goldman Sachs.

[hellodolly]

Why blame education for the lack of interest in political activities, it is a case of apathy, the average Thai does not care to do their own research about politics. Even picking up a newspaper, however bias they may be, is a challenge

The average Thai now a days equates politics to corruption and they don't need to study that. In the last 13 years politics has gone from ideals to corruption. The electronic age has made it so easy to see the inability to ever attain an ideal so they give up they see the corruption where as before it was some thing they talked about in groups.

Now they turn on the internet and see the corruption. The students in the 70s had ideals to talk about to strive for. They may have never been attainable but they at least tried. Now a days we get students with one ideal serve the time and get the diploma and get money. If they even bother to look at politics all they see is corruption and thanks to the western culture's influence on the Thai culture they see materialism make money buy things ideals don't count.

The right wing ideas have turned the earth into a garden of Eden. Not We need left wing thinking people. A group of dedicated left wingers can bring forth change. They will be tempered by the right wing but they at least give us a chance to grow and change.

Look at what a dedicated group of right wingers have done in the states by refusing to negotiate. They shut the government down. The tail wagging the dog. Here we need a dedicated group of left wingers who refuse to negotiate. People willing to stand fast to their principals and morals. We don't find that here it is all about power in are government. If we were to have an election tomorrow it would be a vote between two power hungry groups. The choice would not be who can do the most and the best for Thailand it would be who can do the least damage. I am talking about a real vote not a bought vote or one where they say give me six months and I will make you all rich.

Much as it goes against my grain and the way I have always thought I have to agree we need the students to discuss politics they are the future. The present Education system will turn out no leaders just yes people and how much is it going to cost me and what am I going to get in return.

I don't care how rich people are all I care about is them staying out of politics and allowing honest people in. If that is achieved the students will sit up and take notice and interest in politics again.

Hey I would be happy if they could find one politician globallt who worked to serve the country and couldn't be got at by Goldman Sachs.

Unfortunately what you say is to a degree true.

There are many countries who Goldman Sachs does not run.

Islamic countries.

Yes it is money that runs many countries. But show me one country that does not need it. I mentioned stay rich just don't mess with politics. That would be taking the Goldman Sachs people out and leave there money in. Put there money in as it is legaly required and not one satong into what the countries policy must do. Here in Thailand we see the opposite. This would inspire students again to talk politics.

Yes an Ideal the Shinawatra's will never release there hold on power by the use of their money as many other rich people will. In this day and electronic age it is so blatant in your face that the students throw up their hands and concentrate on what they personal can get out of it. Put the corruption behind the scenes and they will start to talk ideals,

I know a pipe dream. It has got so bad now that the man who runs the country with his power bought with money says I am out of politics for good and every one laughs because they know there will be another skype call to direct the government tomorrow if not later in the day. No wonder the students have no more ideals other than the ones installed on them by the west of materialism.

[jayboy]

While pro-democracy student activists of the 1970s campaigned against the influence of the military in politics, General Boonlert Kaewprasit, chairman of the Pitak Siam group, said the military was currently idle, in a posture of waiting and seeing, and indecisive when it should have taken a stance.

The military is doing what it should be doing, preparing to defend Thailand and performing humanitarian programs. It should never be an agent of political change.

I don't disagree with the general thrust of your argument, but there is a naivety in your summary of what the military should be doing.The Thai military is not in the business of defending the country (or more precisely that function is very low on its list of priorities).Its main priority is to make money for the senior officers who run it.To date that objective has been secured by linking up with the old unelected elites.If the situation changes the military would have no problem in principle as long as its budget was kept high and there was minimum interference from the politicians.Yingluck and her brother know this perfectly well.The important thing to remember notwithstanding protestations of patriotism, flag waving and oaths of loyalty, there is in fact no honour - just another set of greedy businessmen (actually worse than most businessmen who do not disguise their objectives)

It wouldn't be fair not to acknowledge some decent exceptions in the opfficer corps, and my comments are no reflection on the enlisted men.

[siampolee]

I do not often ( if ever ) agree with jayboy's comments however in the post above # 22 he sums it up nicely .In the main the Thai military are a self serving self enriching uninformed uniformed mafia much the same as the police.

The whole power structure here irrespective of what the current faction in power may be at any given time hinges on keeping the financial channels open to the military and to a lesser degree the police. the cosmetic displays of patriotism are indeed the marks of dishonesty and as jayboy states "a total lack of honour too.''

There are in my opinion too in both the military and the police some decent honourable serving personnel of all ranks and backgrounds. However they are both outnumbered and outgunned by the corrupt majority of self serving personnel.

However I am optimistic that there is a small stirring of a wind of change a blowing, a gentle zephyr now, but it will strengthen and we will see a coming together of groups to actually defend and hopefully build, nurture and cherish democracy in Thailand.

I may be wrong but I think this movement will be stirred into life in my lifetime and I am 68, let us live in hope.

Whilst there is life there is hope.

[waza]

While pro-democracy student activists of the 1970s campaigned against the influence of the military in politics, General Boonlert Kaewprasit, chairman of the Pitak Siam group, said the military was currently idle, in a posture of waiting and seeing, and indecisive when it should have taken a stance.

The military is doing what it should be doing, preparing to defend Thailand and performing humanitarian programs. It should never be an agent of political change.

I don't disagree with the general thrust of your argument, but there is a naivety in your summary of what the military should be doing.The Thai military is not in the business of defending the country (or more precisely that function is very low on its list of priorities).Its main priority is to make money for the senior officers who run it.To date that objective has been secured by linking up with the old unelected elites.If the situation changes the military would have no problem in principle as long as its budget was kept high and there was minimum interference from the politicians.Yingluck and her brother know this perfectly well.The important thing to remember notwithstanding protestations of patriotism, flag waving and oaths of loyalty, there is in fact no honour - just another set of greedy businessmen (actually worse than most businessmen who do not disguise their objectives)

It wouldn't be fair not to acknowledge some decent exceptions in the opfficer corps, and my comments are no reflection on the enlisted men.

I think you will find the officer corps are the volentary members as the Thai military is mainly conscripts. But I agree like many organisation the Thai military is riddled with corupt personell and hamstrung by corrupt practices. I even believe this systemic corruption is only eclipsed by the massive corruption of the Yingluck/Thaksin administration. However, its interesting that you would use my post that advocated a non political function for the military to again misdirect the topic to one that perpetuates the division of Thai society into political allegencies.

Edited October 13, 2013 by waza

[CanInBKK]

I think in order to get students (or even the general population) excited enough to rally/protest, there has to be goal in mind. The problem is even if the current Gov't was ousted by whatever means, there's no viable solution to filling the void. Thais already gave the Dems a chance and they fell flat on their faces! Who's next for PM? Chuwit? Haha!!! Ask the protestors camped out at Suan Lum, what they "want" as an outcome from their protest, most have no clue so how can you get ordinary citizens excited? Impossible!

Edited October 13, 2013 by CanInBKK

[waza]

I think in order to get students (or even the general population) excited enough to rally/protest, there has to be goal in mind. The problem is even if the current Gov't was ousted by whatever means, there's no viable solution to filling the void. Thais already gave the Dems a chance and they fell flat on their faces! Who's next for PM? Chuwit? Haha!!! Ask the protestors camped out at Suan Lum, what they "want" as an outcome from their protest, most have no clue so how can you get ordinary citizens excited? Impossible!

The protestors want an end to the destablising and divisive effects of Thaksin and his corrupt government on Thai society. I for one support that goal. As to who would replace them I feel any alternative would be better that the present dysfunctional administration whos only goal is to serve the agenda of a convicted criminal and fugitive from justice and enrich themselves to the piont of sending Thailand bancrupt.

Edited October 13, 2013 by waza

[jayboy]

While pro-democracy student activists of the 1970s campaigned against the influence of the military in politics, General Boonlert Kaewprasit, chairman of the Pitak Siam group, said the military was currently idle, in a posture of waiting and seeing, and indecisive when it should have taken a stance.

The military is doing what it should be doing, preparing to defend Thailand and performing humanitarian programs. It should never be an agent of political change.

I don't disagree with the general thrust of your argument, but there is a naivety in your summary of what the military should be doing.The Thai military is not in the business of defending the country (or more precisely that function is very low on its list of priorities).Its main priority is to make money for the senior officers who run it.To date that objective has been secured by linking up with the old unelected elites.If the situation changes the military would have no problem in principle as long as its budget was kept high and there was minimum interference from the politicians.Yingluck and her brother know this perfectly well.The important thing to remember notwithstanding protestations of patriotism, flag waving and oaths of loyalty, there is in fact no honour - just another set of greedy businessmen (actually worse than most businessmen who do not disguise their objectives)

It wouldn't be fair not to acknowledge some decent exceptions in the opfficer corps, and my comments are no reflection on the enlisted men.

I think you will find the officer corps are the volentary members as the Thai military is mainly conscripts. But I agree like many organisation the Thai military is riddled with corupt personell and hamstrung by corrupt practices. I even believe this systemic corruption is only eclipsed by the massive corruption of the Yingluck/Thaksin administration. However, its interesting that you would use my post that advocated a non political function for the military to again misdirect the topic to one that perpetuates the division of Thai society into political allegencies.

You have given a reasonable response so I will reciprocate.My issue with your post is your assumption that my comment served to "misdirect the topic" you introduced, namely the objective of a politically neutral military.I think this a profound misunderstanding of the nature of this forum which is to discuss, elaborate and sometimes disagree.Nobody of any political view could demonstrate my comment was irrelevant, or designed to change the subject.It was in fact designed to cast light on the matter.Perhaps your disapproval simply reflects introduction of a realistic assesment of the Thai military, namely its prime interest in financial aggrandisement, rasther than humanitarian assistance or (excuse me while we snigger) defending the country.

[hellodolly]

I think in order to get students (or even the general population) excited enough to rally/protest, there has to be goal in mind. The problem is even if the current Gov't was ousted by whatever means, there's no viable solution to filling the void. Thais already gave the Dems a chance and they fell flat on their faces! Who's next for PM? Chuwit? Haha!!! Ask the protestors camped out at Suan Lum, what they "want" as an outcome from their protest, most have no clue so how can you get ordinary citizens excited? Impossible!

Beg to differ. The Dems never were given a chance just to stay in power they had to give in to demands of other parties. One of them that swung the balance of the vote was a party of 20 who turned on Thaksin. All these parties had to be satisfied in order fot the Dems to do any thing. Never mind that they also had an opposition party that would not support them in their fight with armed terrorists.

Today we have a party that can do any thing they want they have the seats to do it and do not need to please another party.

The Dems are a viable solution but they do not have the money and the connections that the current PTP has. Do you really think that if they had the majority of seats and did not have to please other parties they would still have no positive effect on Thailand. Also they would not have a stand by Army or Thugs to threaten Judges who did not agree with them.

In short how can you not say they are not viable when you have absolutely no idea of what they would do.

[CanInBKK]

I think in order to get students (or even the general population) excited enough to rally/protest, there has to be goal in mind. The problem is even if the current Gov't was ousted by whatever means, there's no viable solution to filling the void. Thais already gave the Dems a chance and they fell flat on their faces! Who's next for PM? Chuwit? Haha!!! Ask the protestors camped out at Suan Lum, what they "want" as an outcome from their protest, most have no clue so how can you get ordinary citizens excited? Impossible!

Beg to differ. The Dems never were given a chance just to stay in power they had to give in to demands of other parties. One of them that swung the balance of the vote was a party of 20 who turned on Thaksin. All these parties had to be satisfied in order fot the Dems to do any thing. Never mind that they also had an opposition party that would not support them in their fight with armed terrorists.

Today we have a party that can do any thing they want they have the seats to do it and do not need to please another party.

The Dems are a viable solution but they do not have the money and the connections that the current PTP has. Do you really think that if they had the majority of seats and did not have to please other parties they would still have no positive effect on Thailand. Also they would not have a stand by Army or Thugs to threaten Judges who did not agree with them.

In short how can you not say they are not viable when you have absolutely no idea of what they would do.

Granted, the Democrats were part of a coalition, as the PM, Abhisit had certain powers which were solely his - and as such his decisions or lack thereof showed merely that he is a puppet for "others". Case in point it took him well over a year (can't remember exactly how long) to appoint a Chief of Police! Seriously? As PM he should show leadership and ability to make executive decisions, not try to appease both of his puppet masters who are on opposite sides.

As the forum rules are VERY clear, don't ask for me to clarify what I mean because I won't....it's up to you to do your research what I mean by puppet masters.

What Thailand needs is a LEADER, hopefully an honest one at that. Unfortunately at this time, you can only have one OR the other. Abhisit had his chance, he showed he lacks the balls to take this country anywhere. What the country needs is a spark....just one reason why students and the general population should rally, and it'll happen - I'm waiting for that day.

[Local Drunk]

They tried that on October 6th, 1976... That's why they are where they are now.