Do you wai?

[Neeranam]

But, what about when I taught for a year, and between classes I went for a coffee, and 300 students coming up the stairs wai me as I'm going down?

I know how that feels. When I first moved here I had a job offer at Suranaree University of Technology. The department head was showing me around the campus and every time a group of students approached us or us them they would all stop and give a deep bowing wai. Have to admit feeling uncomfortable with that level of what I perceived as nearly subservience. Assume it was to do with most coming from Isaan plus the position of this ajarn. Never see that degree though at CMU and just the normal walking wai. Often a curtsey wai from the girl students which is adorable.

I worked in a University in Mahasarakham for 4 years and was waied everywhere I went on campus. I also felt that it was subservience. However, in Khon Kaen University is is totally different. Isarn is not all country bumkins, especially these days.

[Neeranam]

I would guess this would only offend the minority that have no concept that the wai is not in farang culture and therefore unfamiliar with the complexities of the action.

Im pretty sure Thais have a very good concept what wai is. We, foreigners do not.

It is understood that many foreigners do the wai in order to show how they want to fit in, be part of Thailand, and not just some tourist, to be polite, understand local culture and traditions, religion even. But we never will. Your wai is not expected nor wanted, all you do is look ignorant doing it.

From my experience I have to disagree entirely. I have a good friend of 10+ years who would be very upset with me if I was rude enough not to wai someone he introduced me to that I should have given a wai to. He would I'm sure, be similarly pissed off if I met him and his friends (all senior to me) and didn't bother to wai them.

As far as work is involved, I imagine my Thai colleagues of many years would take me not returning a wai as me being a grumpy git that morning or something, but if I did it regularly they would be offended. As for my director and senior colleagues, why wouldn't I wai them? I'm showing respect that their seniority deserves in the country in which I choose to live and work.

Actually there's a funny thing with the wai- when it is a genuine gesture of respect, it can become irrelevant who does it first. I have many senior colleagues who I have to be like greased lightning with because they will whip out their wai before I have even started to react.

I agree with the posters who have said it's a complicated social custom and hard to understand, but if you take the time you can learn- I'd say it's easier than the language. I don't generally wai people younger than me first, unless it's someone I've known for a long, long time, similar to the situation I described above with my own senior colleagues. I don't wai children or serving staff.

So yes- Everyone who knows or meets me knows I'm not a tourist, I have a reasonably good understanding of local culture and traditions (at least enough to reciprocate the manners of those around me), and I am expected to wai by the majority of the people I know here. I don't think the people I associate with consider me to be ignorant for that.

Well said slip.

It isn't that hard to learn - just ask someone. They could teach you in 10 minutes the different levels of the thumb tips depending on who you are waiing. It does get quite complicated in some situations. My wife is 6 years older than my buddy's wife yet she wais her first and calls her 'Pee'. This is because she is a surgeon. She has also waied the wife of a my friends if they are older or 'higher' than me.

[AYJAYDEE]

I would guess this would only offend the minority that have no concept that the wai is not in farang culture and therefore unfamiliar with the complexities of the action.

Im pretty sure Thais have a very good concept what wai is. We, foreigners do not.

It is understood that many foreigners do the wai in order to show how they want to fit in, be part of Thailand, and not just some tourist, to be polite, understand local culture and traditions, religion even. But we never will. Your wai is not expected nor wanted, all you do is look ignorant doing it.

THAT IS PATENTLY UNTRUE

[Neeranam]

I would guess this would only offend the minority that have no concept that the wai is not in farang culture and therefore unfamiliar with the complexities of the action.

Im pretty sure Thais have a very good concept what wai is. We, foreigners do not.

It is understood that many foreigners do the wai in order to show how they want to fit in, be part of Thailand, and not just some tourist, to be polite, understand local culture and traditions, religion even. But we never will. Your wai is not expected nor wanted, all you do is look ignorant doing it.

Nonsense - many foreigners do fit in.

Our wais are often expected and wanted.

You probably say foreigners sound silly and are ignorant when they speak Thai too.

We must mix in different circles.

[AYJAYDEE]

I would guess this would only offend the minority that have no concept that the wai is not in farang culture and therefore unfamiliar with the complexities of the action.

Im pretty sure Thais have a very good concept what wai is. We, foreigners do not.

It is understood that many foreigners do the wai in order to show how they want to fit in, be part of Thailand, and not just some tourist, to be polite, understand local culture and traditions, religion even. But we never will. Your wai is not expected nor wanted, all you do is look ignorant doing it.

Nonsense - many foreigners do fit in.

Our wais are often expected and wanted.

You probably say foreigners sound silly and are ignorant when they speak Thai too.

We must mix in different circles.

its obvious that many of these guys dont have a clue about the society they supposedly live in

[Tim207]

If you don't wai you should go home. (just kidding)

I find it amusing that so many think that a farang that wais is trying to be Thai, looks foolish, or is even offensive. Many of those same people complain that they are always treated as an outsider. In the farang context it is simply a polite greeting. In a situation where you would normally shake hands, give a hug or kiss on the cheek in your own country the Thai custom is a wai instead. To refuse those customary gestures in your own country would cause offense just as refusing to wai appropriately will cause offense to a Thai whether or not they show it. If someone refuses to display polite behavior in any culture they will find it hard to be accepted.

Sure, most will understand that you are a foreigner and don't understand the custom if you don't wai but if it is perceived that you should know how to be polite and refuse to do so you will be viewed as rude and deservedly so.

If you are happy being isolated from Thai society other than dealing with vendors or workers waiing is unnecessary, but to be accepted by Thai friends some ettiquette is important. I wouldn't want to hang around someone who would refuse to be polite to people I introduced them to, why would a Thai put themselves in that situation.

If you are confused as to when or how to wai, it isn't that difficult. You are not expected to know subtle hand placement. It is the intention that counts. This is what I do:

Very casual wai - fingertips touch chin

Greeting family, friends or elders - fingertips to tip of nose

Greeting Highly respected monks - fingertips to bridge of nose

Your hands should be held naturally in front of your face head brought forward to touch the fingertips in the location on your face.

When to wai

Do not return wai of service people or children a smile is sufficient

Wai elder respected family when not seen for extended period

Return wai of younger (not children) or little respected family

Friends and peers I never wai first but always return (they know the proper protocol and understand I don't as it is not my culture)

Showing an attempt to be courteous and have manners is much more important than technical perfection.

[ace]

The most important thing when waiing is to do it with mindfulness. A quick wai is even ruder than not waiing when it is appropriate to do so..

Waiing 15 people in the morning and evening must be quick, and if the wai wouldn't be quick, the person would be already away....

My Wai'ing, is often quick usually to people I know already or are equals and quite 'westernized' . Deep and mindful to elders, police, puy yais, monks and the like. I find that some of the more delinquent little brats at my school overdo the wai as a kind of piss-take.

[AYJAYDEE]

If you don't wai you should go home. (just kidding)

I find it amusing that so many think that a farang that wais is trying to be Thai, looks foolish, or is even offensive. Many of those same people complain that they are always treated as an outsider. In the farang context it is simply a polite greeting. In a situation where you would normally shake hands, give a hug or kiss on the cheek in your own country the Thai custom is a wai instead. To refuse those customary gestures in your own country would cause offense just as refusing to wai appropriately will cause offense to a Thai whether or not they show it. If someone refuses to display polite behavior in any culture they will find it hard to be accepted.

Sure, most will understand that you are a foreigner and don't understand the custom if you don't wai but if it is perceived that you should know how to be polite and refuse to do so you will be viewed as rude and deservedly so.

If you are happy being isolated from Thai society other than dealing with vendors or workers waiing is unnecessary, but to be accepted by Thai friends some ettiquette is important. I wouldn't want to hang around someone who would refuse to be polite to people I introduced them to, why would a Thai put themselves in that situation.

If you are confused as to when or how to wai, it isn't that difficult. You are not expected to know subtle hand placement. It is the intention that counts. This is what I do:

Very casual wai - fingertips touch chin

Greeting family, friends or elders - fingertips to tip of nose

Greeting Highly respected monks - fingertips to bridge of nose

Your hands should be held naturally in front of your face head brought forward to touch the fingertips in the location on your face.

When to wai

Do not return wai of service people or children a smile is sufficient

Wai elder respected family when not seen for extended period

Return wai of younger (not children) or little respected family

Friends and peers I never wai first but always return (they know the proper protocol and understand I don't as it is not my culture)

Showing an attempt to be courteous and have manners is much more important than technical perfection.

very well said!!

[kevozman1]

No. Maybe if I was in Thailand involved in business or work in some way I would start assimilating into such things to get ahead. I try to be polite of other peoples cultures while in a foreign country and make sure I do not do anything that outright offends the locals (most of it is common sense, like anywhere on the planet), but I do not feel the need to try hard and copy the indigenous population's customs if I do not feel comfortable doing so. Seems to be an attitude that works well while overseas as I have never had any trouble worth talking about.

[AYJAYDEE]

No. Maybe if I was in Thailand involved in business or work in some way I would start assimilating into such things to get ahead. I try to be polite of other peoples cultures while in a foreign country and make sure I do not do anything that outright offends the locals (most of it is common sense, like anywhere on the planet), but I do not feel the need to try hard and copy the indigenous population's customs if I do not feel comfortable doing so. Seems to be an attitude that works well while overseas as I have never had any trouble worth talking about.

thais are generally too polite to point out rudeness

[richard_smith237]

Marcel1, I spend half of my time in Bangkok, if that lessens my guilt of being mainly Pattaya resident.

Guys, think of wai as a special greeting of members of a closed club, parroting the gestures and traditions of club members will never get you invitation to join the club. So don't even try, and don't look sad trying to fit in, cos you wont.

When people have this attitude I suspect they'll never fit in.

However, the point of a Westerner opening up to local customs is not to fit in but to acknowledge and show a level of mutual respect.

After reading this thread I paid attention to my reactions yesterday.

At the supermarket the cashier wai'd me after I paid - I nodded to acknowledge the wai but didn't wai back.

At work one of the Managers turned up and wai'd me - without thinking I returned the wai, having been here for a while it was a natural response.

Now, I don't really think about how or when to return a wai - its become a natural response (to return the wai or just nod - but a wai should always be acknowledged).

Initiating the wai is a more complex issue - but generally respected Thai elders, seniors get a wai.

One of my Wife's Aunties didn't return or acknowledge my Wai a couple of times. I no longer wai her. Everyone notices but agree that she's rude. Her husband couldn't be nicer, always returns my wai stands up and also welcomes me with a handshake.

Manners and attempts at politeness cost nothing... I notice when someone doesn't return my wai and I find it impolite. I imagine Thai's feel the same when they know we know the custom but still choose ignorance over manners.

[Fookhaht]

Would you expect a Thai person to shake hands in your country? What would you think of those who said, "I refuse to shake hands, it's not my culture"? I'd probably say, "piss off back to your own country then".

Of course I wai. It does take a while before one can do it properly and know when to and when not to wai.

Why wouldn't you wai? Unless, of course, you were a cultural snob!

Sent from my tin can via string.

[hanno]

Here in Cambodia I wai in formal situations or at business meetings. I do not wai the staff all day as I have 250 of them. I wai at religious ceremonies.

My department heads usually tell me when and when not to wai and I'll stick to that and do the same when in Thailand.

[AYJAYDEE]

Here in Cambodia I wai in formal situations or at business meetings. I do not wai the staff all day as I have 250 of them. I wai at religious ceremonies.

My department heads usually tell me when and when not to wai and I'll stick to that and do the same when in Thailand.

what do you do when your department heads arent around to guide you?

[SpokaneAl]

Of course I wai. For me at least, part of the experience of living at least part time in Thailand is to experience the culture, life and people. The wai is a part of that. I enjoy reciprocating with a wai, and I also enjoy instigating it.

This is life and life is too short to not remain as flexible and open minded as I can. Am I attempting to pretend I am Thai? At six feet, pale skinned, balding and mid sixties in age, I am fairly certain that when Thais encounter me, they pretty much know that I am not from around these parts.

However, for me again, part of living, wherever that may be is to embrace as much of life is possible. We only have one go around on this great rock, and I am not going to waste portions of that brief time worrying about whether to wai or not.

And if I was only here for the weather, there are many closer locations that do not involve 30 hours of travel each way.

[HeijoshinCool]

Geez.

I just went down to the lobby of my hotel for a cup of coffee.

The owner took it upon herself to introduce another westerner and his Thai wife to me (thanks so much, lady), as I'm lifting the cup to my lips.

The guy wai'd me.

Geez.

[pgrahmm]

If someone wai's me first I do as a matter of respect for them and their culture. Pulled up to a group of Thai's I play sports with the other day and was greeted by 18 wai's in unison as I walked up - what are you going to do - wave it off - ignore the respect they have shown? You might - I won't.

Anytime I'm around a parent instructing (or being proud - smiling) of a young child toddler trying their best to learn to wai I always stop and return it...the smiles alone are worth it......

If I cannot respect the respect they give to me I shouldn't be here.....I think a wai in the correct situations is respectful and necessary here and have gained some friendships and rewards from it.....

Good manners are always appreciated.....

Edited October 23, 2013 by pgrahmm

[hanno]

Here in Cambodia I wai in formal situations or at business meetings. I do not wai the staff all day as I have 250 of them. I wai at religious ceremonies.

My department heads usually tell me when and when not to wai and I'll stick to that and do the same when in Thailand.

what do you do when your department heads arent around to guide you?

Should have been past tense. After 4,5 tears I know who is important and who not.

[lisu]

It depends on the situation, but generally, yes. However, I ignore protocol and wai everyone at the same level. If I enter a room where there are many people of different social status, I'll wai the cleaner with the same level of respect as the lady sat wearing 16 different gold necklaces, because I see them as equals.

Having said that, in my experience, most Thais don't expect us to understand or correctly implement wai protocols, but appreciate the sentiment none the less.

I also teach my children that they don't need to wai non-Thais, and even told their school teachers not to tell them to wai me when I pick them up each afternoon - I much prefer a hug and smile over cold formality :-)

[pomchop]

Actually I much prefer a wai to a hand shake. Sitting in a bar where I already know that there is no hot water, no soap, maybe a very dirty towel and some falang guy wants to shake hands all around?

I will TRY and satisfy him with a wai not because I really want to but because I am not really interested in shaking a hand that is likely covered in germs or pxss or crap or just wiped his runny nose.

Frankly I think in this day of germs everywhere I would be very happy to give up the hand shakes all around. Seems a lot more people now do a fist bump for that very reason.

Shaking hands is a very good way to end up with all kinds of colds/flu etc.

A wai is a very pleasant way to recognize and acknowledge someone without having to share their germs. I wish it would replace the age old custom of shaking hands with every tom dick and harry that you meet.

[BudRight]

No.

[Bpuumike]

No. It's a Thai thing, foreigner doing it look silly, and trying too hard

Apologies. Do not agree.

[SuwadeeS]

I did it. But I stopped it for good.

Since I speak fluently Thai and discovered, how bad and fashism Thai people are in their heart.

I changed to use a hallo. That's it.

Why should I wai and repect these people, when I know how do they really thing in their heart about us foreigners.

Because, there are some older? No, old in Thailand doesn't have to do with wise.

Because, they are richer? No, to be rich doesn't mean to be a good person.

Because, of there rank or position? No, ranks doesn't mean anything to me.

Because, of there knowledge? No, I am smarter than these people, who believe it is more important to waste their time

with FB etc. insteed of study something.

So, how to deal, if somebody call me farang. In there mind it has a pejorative meaning

so, I do the same. I respond with: Hi dummy.

Because, somebody who treat a foreigner with this bad word and not equivalent, deserves to be called DUMMY.

[AYJAYDEE]

Here in Cambodia I wai in formal situations or at business meetings. I do not wai the staff all day as I have 250 of them. I wai at religious ceremonies.

My department heads usually tell me when and when not to wai and I'll stick to that and do the same when in Thailand.

what do you do when your department heads arent around to guide you?

Should have been past tense. After 4,5 tears I know who is important and who not.

paying proper respect is just not for important people. although important people will notice those who dont pay proper respect.

[silent]

Yes but not the security guard or the house maid.

Wai not?

[avander]

Just as most of us appreciate foreigners in our home country showing some respect for our customs I am also respectful in their country. For that reason I am happy to add a Wei to a meeting. Unless I do have it wrong, it's not a complex process to to understand and usually much appreciated by our hosts creating a mutual respect from my experience.

Edited October 23, 2013 by avander

[AYJAYDEE]

I did it. But I stopped it for good.

Since I speak fluently Thai and discovered, how bad and fashism Thai people are in their heart.

I changed to use a hallo. That's it.

Why should I wai and repect these people, when I know how do they really thing in their heart about us foreigners.

Because, there are some older? No, old in Thailand doesn't have to do with wise.

Because, they are richer? No, to be rich doesn't mean to be a good person.

Because, of there rank or position? No, ranks doesn't mean anything to me.

Because, of there knowledge? No, I am smarter than these people, who believe it is more important to waste their time

with FB etc. insteed of study something.

So, how to deal, if somebody call me farang. In there mind it has a pejorative meaning

so, I do the same. I respond with: Hi dummy.

Because, somebody who treat a foreigner with this bad word and not equivalent, deserves to be called DUMMY.

why even bother with hallo if you have such contempt for them?

[silent]

Geez.

I just went down to the lobby of my hotel for a cup of coffee.

The owner took it upon herself to introduce another westerner and his Thai wife to me (thanks so much, lady), as I'm lifting the cup to my lips.

The guy wai'd me.

Geez.

Maybe just saying a prayer for you, or the same...........(oh my God, being Caucasian doesn't mean we speak the same language, just like Asians)

[Bpuumike]

Actually I much prefer a wai to a hand shake. Sitting in a bar where I already know that there is no hot water, no soap, maybe a very dirty towel and some falang guy wants to shake hands all around?

I will TRY and satisfy him with a wai not because I really want to but because I am not really interested in shaking a hand that is likely covered in germs or pxss or crap or just wiped his runny nose.

Frankly I think in this day of germs everywhere I would be very happy to give up the hand shakes all around. Seems a lot more people now do a fist bump for that very reason.

Shaking hands is a very good way to end up with all kinds of colds/flu etc.

A wai is a very pleasant way to recognize and acknowledge someone without having to share their germs. I wish it would replace the age old custom of shaking hands with every tom dick and harry that you meet.

Or with most Thais, a deferential deep nod of the head is equally acceptable.

After all, we are uncultured Farang.

[silent]

I did it. But I stopped it for good.

Since I speak fluently Thai and discovered, how bad and fashism Thai people are in their heart.

I changed to use a hallo. That's it.

Why should I wai and repect these people, when I know how do they really thing in their heart about us foreigners.

Because, there are some older? No, old in Thailand doesn't have to do with wise.

Because, they are richer? No, to be rich doesn't mean to be a good person.

Because, of there rank or position? No, ranks doesn't mean anything to me.

Because, of there knowledge? No, I am smarter than these people, who believe it is more important to waste their time

with FB etc. insteed of study something.

So, how to deal, if somebody call me farang. In there mind it has a pejorative meaning

so, I do the same. I respond with: Hi dummy.

Because, somebody who treat a foreigner with this bad word and not equivalent, deserves to be called DUMMY.

why even bother with hallo if you have such contempt for them?

Not necessarily. Chicken or the egg and stereotyping everything and everybody? Now there's contempt