It.....What An Insult?

[farang000999]

It works the other way too... if you are young and handsome you will hear about all the things they want to do to you.

[GuestHouse]

Pot calling the kettle black?

This forum is littered with people insulting Thais.

Has it not occurred to the OP that respect is something you EARN and the attitude expressed by their respective spouses may be well deserved?

No, that is what is called 'Conditional Respect'

Real respect - and this is a challenge for every single one of us - is what we start with.

Example - You meet someone you have never met before - you start by respecting that person regardless of their race, age, gender, sexual orientation, the way they are dressed, their accent - you name it - get the preconceptions out of the way - and YOU have respect for this other person.

The argument that 'Respect is something you earn' is the gate by which we all exclude others from opportunity in life.

I'm sure we can all recall occasions when we have seen people treat others with disrespect on the very first time they met - we may if we are honest admit to having done so ourselves.

I'm sure too we can all recall occasions when we have witnessed someone see through the dross of assumption and treat a total stranger with respect - most of us have done that at least some time in our life - if we are honest we might admit how difficult it can be sometimes.

But we surely also understand what a different it makes.

[mbeau]

mun is not always an insult. it can be and with bargirls etc usually is. Between close friends it is an acceptible pronoun.

THe way to think of it is like the word..bast..d

You can call someone that and it can be a real insult or you can even make it appear worse by saying "You stupid bast..d" and if said by an Australian is quite acceptible.

Yes, context is everything and should always be taken into account before reaching any conclusion. All languages have complex nuances, and Thai is no exception:****Thai language removed**** can be an insult, can be a term of familiarity, or can mean absolutely nothing - all depending on the relationship between the people involved and the context.

Reminds me of an old Aussie joke: an Englishman in an Aussie pub takes exception to being called a bastard and complains to the bar tender, who bangs on the counter and shouts out: "Oi! Which one of you bastards called this bastard a bastard?!"

Edited October 24, 2013 by metisdead
This is an English language forum, English is the only acceptable language, except in the Thai language forum where Thai language is allowed.

[harrry]

mun is not always an insult. it can be and with bargirls etc usually is. Between close friends it is an acceptible pronoun.

THe way to think of it is like the word..bast..d

You can call someone that and it can be a real insult or you can even make it appear worse by saying "You stupid bast..d" and if said by an Australian is quite acceptible.

Yes, context is everything and should always be taken into account before reaching any conclusion. All languages have complex nuances, and Thai is no exception:****Thai language removed**** can be an insult, can be a term of familiarity, or can mean absolutely nothing - all depending on the relationship between the people involved and the context.

Reminds me of an old Aussie joke: an Englishman in an Aussie pub takes exception to being called a bastard and complains to the bar tender, who bangs on the counter and shouts out: "Oi! Which one of you bastards called this bastard a bastard?!"

Sounds as if he was a silly old b....ger.

[JO1973]

You really have to look at the person saying it. I had this experience once when a relative of my girlfriend apparently spoke in similar terms about me. I didn't hear it but I did hear people correct her and she then walked off bitterly. My girlfriend explained what happened but also explained that the individual was considered 'trash' by everyone else.

But this does seem to happen in Asia far more than it would in a Western country. I've experienced similar things in other Asian countries. Once they found out that I understood what they said, everyone lost face. The worst thing to do is to stoop to their level. Show that you have the moral and mature high ground and it will make them look like common common trash in front of their peers. And at the end of the day, they will have to deal with remarks from others about the time the farang showed them up.

I think one of the reasons you hear it more in Asia is because most never link their behavior with racism. If someone in the West referred to a Thai as 'it' you know there would be accusations of racism flying every which way. Western countries are very different given that anyone can be a Westerner. The same can't be said here. It can take a long time to pierce the bubble and become an insider in Asia, but then you are only an insider within your group. You're still an outsider to the rest of society who will continue to refer to you as 'it'.

Thais and many other Asians don’t see themselves as racist because they see foreigners as separate from their society – and if foreigners don’t like it, they are told they can always go back to their country. Xenophobia is intricately linked to racism and xenophobia can run rampant in Asia. “Everything was fine until they came.” We read about it all of the time here. If outsiders are depicted as the problem it’s very easy for individuals to justify using ‘it’ when referring to them, and easy for others to let them do it.

[Tatsujin]

Good to see some of you are actually finally understanding how you are thought of and referred to here by some, not all. Perhaps gives you a better understanding of your real status here, which for most, isn't very high.

[kamahele]

My mother in law used to refer to me as "farang" until my partner scolded her. She only has a fourth grade education so I hold nothing against her for what we consider to be rude. I am however glad that my Thai is quite bad because I understand from my other foreign friends that are fluent speakers that many Thai do speak quite badly about you while you are standing there with no clue. We were in The Mall in Korat together and the two salespeople in the toy dept. were standing right next to us talking about how fat the two of are (I admit we are) and how my female farang friend must really be a man. I was insulted at the time but laugh about it now.

[yingyo]

A ex Thai gf used to refer to me as "pee bar" and I thought she just joking meant older man. I would call her "Nong ****"

I was telling another Thai this recently and she laughed and said bar means man who wears shabby clothes or a bit of a down and outer. hmmmm. Or was she using 'bar' in an affectionate way?

With different tones and similar sounding terms it could have been anything. It was probably Pa and not Bar.

Unfortunately it doesn't transliterate well into English writing.

[AYJAYDEE]

My mother in law used to refer to me as "farang" until my partner scolded her. She only has a fourth grade education so I hold nothing against her for what we consider to be rude. I am however glad that my Thai is quite bad because I understand from my other foreign friends that are fluent speakers that many Thai do speak quite badly about you while you are standing there with no clue. We were in The Mall in Korat together and the two salespeople in the toy dept. were standing right next to us talking about how fat the two of are (I admit we are) and how my female farang friend must really be a man. I was insulted at the time but laugh about it now.

our family does not consider that word offensive

[francescoassisi]

Fluency is a specific language competency, and most who claim it or use the term do so incorrectly.

[francescoassisi]

I'd say the premise, evidence and conclusions of the OP are so tenuous as to be risible.

[elzach]

I can concurr with the comments made by TBL's friend, and citertainly keeping an ability to speak Thai under your hat has its advantages.

With respect to the use of perogative terms amongst close friends, this is indeed common and common across all levels of Thai society. But there are some rules - the use will always be restricted to the 1st and 2nd person, unless the 3rd person is joining in the discussion AND I know of no occasion when it would be acceptable for a Thai person to address their spouse in the 3rd person perogative terms.

I certainly do not know of any Thai man who would tollerate his wife addressing him so in open convestation amongst friends.

I would also caution against assuming the use of these perogative terms as insults is limited to ex bar girls, it is not, they are used as offensive terms across Thai society. My own last encounter with their use against me was when making a complaint to Thai airways.

I always make any substantial complaint I have regarding service etc in Thailand in English - it puts me at an advantage to do so.

When politely complaining about a ThaiAirways cock-up over my booking, the staff member was efficiently dealing with the complaint but asked the supervisor for some advice - She (the supervisor) had been listening in, and responded with a string of abuse towards me (those self same perogative terms in abundance).

Five minutes later the supervisor, her manager and myself were sitting in a room with the purposes of sorting the problem out. I let her speak first, before giving my side of the story in Thai. I got an upgade.

But they need not have bothered, the look on her face was enough of an apology.

Learning the language is like opening a big window that you could not previously see out of - The view is often interesting, too often dull, occasionally humourous, and occasionally touching - but there are occassions when it is deeply offensive.

I've always found the best response to these times when I hear offensive comments is to respond politely just to let them know you understood perfectly what they have said.

Many occasions have been recounted on TV where the foreigner was being verbally abused in Thai, only for the foreigner to later reveal that he/she understood everything, thereby getting the "apology" look and/or satisfaction.

BUT, that is not the point, in my opinion. Reverse the situation: a Thai is complaining in the US somewhere, and the clerk and the supervisor start referring to him as "it", "bastar.", "douchb.g" (or any insulting term that the Thai is less likely to understand, which btw is the original post intention). Would that be ok with the Thai person? and frankly, would an English-speaking person "take advantage" of that situation? And, by extension, what kind of "class" would that portray on the offending person? Yes, I'm afraid it comes down to "class".

In light of the original post, perhaps we need to remind Thais that they themselves would not like to be called "the foreigner", "it", and much worse, when THEY travel, or live, overseas.

[yingyo]

Beetlejuice:

Another example, again back in those times. I was with my wife at a market. The old lady on the stall asked me if I could speak Thai? I should have replied; poot pasa Thai mai dai krup or pasa Thai nit noi, meaning I can’t speak Thai or only very little Thai, but instead I replied; pasa Thai mai dee, then the lady began shouting at me. My wife said to me; you fool, you have just told the lady that speaking Thai is no good, when in fact I meant, my Thai language skills are bad.

And thus you learned a valuable lesson about the Thai.

Instantly flying into a rage (quite possibly a violent rage) at any sort of perceived criticism, especially one from a foreigner that they were smiling and waiing to milliseconds earlier.

Edited October 24, 2013 by yingyo

[AYJAYDEE]

I can concurr with the comments made by TBL's friend, and citertainly keeping an ability to speak Thai under your hat has its advantages.

With respect to the use of perogative terms amongst close friends, this is indeed common and common across all levels of Thai society. But there are some rules - the use will always be restricted to the 1st and 2nd person, unless the 3rd person is joining in the discussion AND I know of no occasion when it would be acceptable for a Thai person to address their spouse in the 3rd person perogative terms.

I certainly do not know of any Thai man who would tollerate his wife addressing him so in open convestation amongst friends.

I would also caution against assuming the use of these perogative terms as insults is limited to ex bar girls, it is not, they are used as offensive terms across Thai society. My own last encounter with their use against me was when making a complaint to Thai airways.

I always make any substantial complaint I have regarding service etc in Thailand in English - it puts me at an advantage to do so.

When politely complaining about a ThaiAirways cock-up over my booking, the staff member was efficiently dealing with the complaint but asked the supervisor for some advice - She (the supervisor) had been listening in, and responded with a string of abuse towards me (those self same perogative terms in abundance).

Five minutes later the supervisor, her manager and myself were sitting in a room with the purposes of sorting the problem out. I let her speak first, before giving my side of the story in Thai. I got an upgade.

But they need not have bothered, the look on her face was enough of an apology.

Learning the language is like opening a big window that you could not previously see out of - The view is often interesting, too often dull, occasionally humourous, and occasionally touching - but there are occassions when it is deeply offensive.

I've always found the best response to these times when I hear offensive comments is to respond politely just to let them know you understood perfectly what they have said.

Many occasions have been recounted on TV where the foreigner was being verbally abused in Thai, only for the foreigner to later reveal that he/she understood everything, thereby getting the "apology" look and/or satisfaction.

BUT, that is not the point, in my opinion. Reverse the situation: a Thai is complaining in the US somewhere, and the clerk and the supervisor start referring to him as "it", "bastar.", "douchb.g" (or any insulting term that the Thai is less likely to understand, which btw is the original post intention). Would that be ok with the Thai person? and frankly, would an English-speaking person "take advantage" of that situation? And, by extension, what kind of "class" would that portray on the offending person? Yes, I'm afraid it comes down to "class".

In light of the original post, perhaps we need to remind Thais that they themselves would not like to be called "the foreigner", "it", and much worse, when THEY travel, or live, overseas.

lol! you must have led a pretty sheltered life if you havent heard westerners say horrible things about asians in western countries!!

[GuestHouse]

lol! you must have led a pretty sheltered life if you havent heard westerners say horrible things about asians in western countries!!

Which of course is justification for Thais to insult foreigners - Not!

[AYJAYDEE]

lol! you must have led a pretty sheltered life if you havent heard westerners say horrible things about asians in western countries!!

Which of course is justification for Thais to insult foreigners - Not!

nice to see you corrected yourself.

[GuestHouse]

Fluency is a specific language competency, and most who claim it or use the term do so incorrectly.

Correct - but this is a meaningless statement since you yourself have never met the person giving the report and therefore have no if she is or is not fluent.

The OP, who has spent a great deal of time in Thailand, has met her and tells us she is fluent. If you have evidence to the contrary offer it up.

You also have a number of other people, myself included, who state they have fluency or near fluency in Thai language who report hearing similar use of these abusive terms and we have responses which have taken the trouble to provide references to language instruction materials cautioning the use of these terms as being abusive.

[GuestHouse]

I'd say the premise, evidence and conclusions of the OP are so tenuous as to be risible.

Then quote the OP thread in its entirity and explain your comment - or just make flipant unsubstanciated comments and accept we'll assign them to the bin of keyboard verbage.

[benalibina]

I can concurr with the comments made by TBL's friend, and citertainly keeping an ability to speak Thai under your hat has its advantages.

With respect to the use of perogative terms amongst close friends, this is indeed common and common across all levels of Thai society. But there are some rules - the use will always be restricted to the 1st and 2nd person, unless the 3rd person is joining in the discussion AND I know of no occasion when it would be acceptable for a Thai person to address their spouse in the 3rd person perogative terms.

I certainly do not know of any Thai man who would tollerate his wife addressing him so in open convestation amongst friends.

I would also caution against assuming the use of these perogative terms as insults is limited to ex bar girls, it is not, they are used as offensive terms across Thai society. My own last encounter with their use against me was when making a complaint to Thai airways.

I always make any substantial complaint I have regarding service etc in Thailand in English - it puts me at an advantage to do so.

When politely complaining about a ThaiAirways cock-up over my booking, the staff member was efficiently dealing with the complaint but asked the supervisor for some advice - She (the supervisor) had been listening in, and responded with a string of abuse towards me (those self same perogative terms in abundance).

Five minutes later the supervisor, her manager and myself were sitting in a room with the purposes of sorting the problem out. I let her speak first, before giving my side of the story in Thai. I got an upgade.

But they need not have bothered, the look on her face was enough of an apology.

Learning the language is like opening a big window that you could not previously see out of - The view is often interesting, too often dull, occasionally humourous, and occasionally touching - but there are occassions when it is deeply offensive.

I've always found the best response to these times when I hear offensive comments is to respond politely just to let them know you understood perfectly what they have said.

Many occasions have been recounted on TV where the foreigner was being verbally abused in Thai, only for the foreigner to later reveal that he/she understood everything, thereby getting the "apology" look and/or satisfaction.

BUT, that is not the point, in my opinion. Reverse the situation: a Thai is complaining in the US somewhere, and the clerk and the supervisor start referring to him as "it", "bastar.", "douchb.g" (or any insulting term that the Thai is less likely to understand, which btw is the original post intention). Would that be ok with the Thai person? and frankly, would an English-speaking person "take advantage" of that situation? And, by extension, what kind of "class" would that portray on the offending person? Yes, I'm afraid it comes down to "class".

In light of the original post, perhaps we need to remind Thais that they themselves would not like to be called "the foreigner", "it", and much worse, when THEY travel, or live, overseas.

lol! you must have led a pretty sheltered life if you havent heard westerners say horrible things about asians in western countries!!

2 wrongs do not make it right. Simple mind is a joy forever !

[AYJAYDEE]

I can concurr with the comments made by TBL's friend, and citertainly keeping an ability to speak Thai under your hat has its advantages.

With respect to the use of perogative terms amongst close friends, this is indeed common and common across all levels of Thai society. But there are some rules - the use will always be restricted to the 1st and 2nd person, unless the 3rd person is joining in the discussion AND I know of no occasion when it would be acceptable for a Thai person to address their spouse in the 3rd person perogative terms.

I certainly do not know of any Thai man who would tollerate his wife addressing him so in open convestation amongst friends.

I would also caution against assuming the use of these perogative terms as insults is limited to ex bar girls, it is not, they are used as offensive terms across Thai society. My own last encounter with their use against me was when making a complaint to Thai airways.

I always make any substantial complaint I have regarding service etc in Thailand in English - it puts me at an advantage to do so.

When politely complaining about a ThaiAirways cock-up over my booking, the staff member was efficiently dealing with the complaint but asked the supervisor for some advice - She (the supervisor) had been listening in, and responded with a string of abuse towards me (those self same perogative terms in abundance).

Five minutes later the supervisor, her manager and myself were sitting in a room with the purposes of sorting the problem out. I let her speak first, before giving my side of the story in Thai. I got an upgade.

But they need not have bothered, the look on her face was enough of an apology.

Learning the language is like opening a big window that you could not previously see out of - The view is often interesting, too often dull, occasionally humourous, and occasionally touching - but there are occassions when it is deeply offensive.

I've always found the best response to these times when I hear offensive comments is to respond politely just to let them know you understood perfectly what they have said.

Many occasions have been recounted on TV where the foreigner was being verbally abused in Thai, only for the foreigner to later reveal that he/she understood everything, thereby getting the "apology" look and/or satisfaction.

BUT, that is not the point, in my opinion. Reverse the situation: a Thai is complaining in the US somewhere, and the clerk and the supervisor start referring to him as "it", "bastar.", "douchb.g" (or any insulting term that the Thai is less likely to understand, which btw is the original post intention). Would that be ok with the Thai person? and frankly, would an English-speaking person "take advantage" of that situation? And, by extension, what kind of "class" would that portray on the offending person? Yes, I'm afraid it comes down to "class".

In light of the original post, perhaps we need to remind Thais that they themselves would not like to be called "the foreigner", "it", and much worse, when THEY travel, or live, overseas.

lol! you must have led a pretty sheltered life if you havent heard westerners say horrible things about asians in western countries!!

2 wrongs do not make it right. Simple mind is a joy forever !

no one said they did

[elzach]

I can concurr with the comments made by TBL's friend, and citertainly keeping an ability to speak Thai under your hat has its advantages.

With respect to the use of perogative terms amongst close friends, this is indeed common and common across all levels of Thai society. But there are some rules - the use will always be restricted to the 1st and 2nd person, unless the 3rd person is joining in the discussion AND I know of no occasion when it would be acceptable for a Thai person to address their spouse in the 3rd person perogative terms.

I certainly do not know of any Thai man who would tollerate his wife addressing him so in open convestation amongst friends.

I would also caution against assuming the use of these perogative terms as insults is limited to ex bar girls, it is not, they are used as offensive terms across Thai society. My own last encounter with their use against me was when making a complaint to Thai airways.

I always make any substantial complaint I have regarding service etc in Thailand in English - it puts me at an advantage to do so.

When politely complaining about a ThaiAirways cock-up over my booking, the staff member was efficiently dealing with the complaint but asked the supervisor for some advice - She (the supervisor) had been listening in, and responded with a string of abuse towards me (those self same perogative terms in abundance).

Five minutes later the supervisor, her manager and myself were sitting in a room with the purposes of sorting the problem out. I let her speak first, before giving my side of the story in Thai. I got an upgade.

But they need not have bothered, the look on her face was enough of an apology.

Learning the language is like opening a big window that you could not previously see out of - The view is often interesting, too often dull, occasionally humourous, and occasionally touching - but there are occassions when it is deeply offensive.

I've always found the best response to these times when I hear offensive comments is to respond politely just to let them know you understood perfectly what they have said.

Many occasions have been recounted on TV where the foreigner was being verbally abused in Thai, only for the foreigner to later reveal that he/she understood everything, thereby getting the "apology" look and/or satisfaction.

BUT, that is not the point, in my opinion. Reverse the situation: a Thai is complaining in the US somewhere, and the clerk and the supervisor start referring to him as "it", "bastar.", "douchb.g" (or any insulting term that the Thai is less likely to understand, which btw is the original post intention). Would that be ok with the Thai person? and frankly, would an English-speaking person "take advantage" of that situation? And, by extension, what kind of "class" would that portray on the offending person? Yes, I'm afraid it comes down to "class".

In light of the original post, perhaps we need to remind Thais that they themselves would not like to be called "the foreigner", "it", and much worse, when THEY travel, or live, overseas.

lol! you must have led a pretty sheltered life if you havent heard westerners say horrible things about asians in western countries!!

Oh yes, lol.

1) would a westerner call his Thai wife "it", under any circumstances, in the presence of ANYONE? (read the OP)

2) do westerners in their home country call Thai people, to their face, "foreigner", routinely, 24/7?

3) do westerners, in an OFFICE setting (as per Guesthouse's post), refer to Thais, in their presence, in insulting manner, thinking the Thai would not understand?

So think before you lol.

[AYJAYDEE]

I can concurr with the comments made by TBL's friend, and citertainly keeping an ability to speak Thai under your hat has its advantages.

With respect to the use of perogative terms amongst close friends, this is indeed common and common across all levels of Thai society. But there are some rules - the use will always be restricted to the 1st and 2nd person, unless the 3rd person is joining in the discussion AND I know of no occasion when it would be acceptable for a Thai person to address their spouse in the 3rd person perogative terms.

I certainly do not know of any Thai man who would tollerate his wife addressing him so in open convestation amongst friends.

I would also caution against assuming the use of these perogative terms as insults is limited to ex bar girls, it is not, they are used as offensive terms across Thai society. My own last encounter with their use against me was when making a complaint to Thai airways.

I always make any substantial complaint I have regarding service etc in Thailand in English - it puts me at an advantage to do so.

When politely complaining about a ThaiAirways cock-up over my booking, the staff member was efficiently dealing with the complaint but asked the supervisor for some advice - She (the supervisor) had been listening in, and responded with a string of abuse towards me (those self same perogative terms in abundance).

Five minutes later the supervisor, her manager and myself were sitting in a room with the purposes of sorting the problem out. I let her speak first, before giving my side of the story in Thai. I got an upgade.

But they need not have bothered, the look on her face was enough of an apology.

Learning the language is like opening a big window that you could not previously see out of - The view is often interesting, too often dull, occasionally humourous, and occasionally touching - but there are occassions when it is deeply offensive.

I've always found the best response to these times when I hear offensive comments is to respond politely just to let them know you understood perfectly what they have said.

Many occasions have been recounted on TV where the foreigner was being verbally abused in Thai, only for the foreigner to later reveal that he/she understood everything, thereby getting the "apology" look and/or satisfaction.

BUT, that is not the point, in my opinion. Reverse the situation: a Thai is complaining in the US somewhere, and the clerk and the supervisor start referring to him as "it", "bastar.", "douchb.g" (or any insulting term that the Thai is less likely to understand, which btw is the original post intention). Would that be ok with the Thai person? and frankly, would an English-speaking person "take advantage" of that situation? And, by extension, what kind of "class" would that portray on the offending person? Yes, I'm afraid it comes down to "class".

In light of the original post, perhaps we need to remind Thais that they themselves would not like to be called "the foreigner", "it", and much worse, when THEY travel, or live, overseas.

lol! you must have led a pretty sheltered life if you havent heard westerners say horrible things about asians in western countries!!

Oh yes, lol.

1) would a westerner call his Thai wife "it", under any circumstances, in the presence of ANYONE? (read the OP)

2) do westerners in their home country call Thai people, to their face, "foreigner", routinely, 24/7?

3) do westerners, in an OFFICE setting (as per Guesthouse's post), refer to Thais, in their presence, in insulting manner, thinking the Thai would not understand?

So think before you lol.

yes, yes and yes

[benalibina]

I can concurr with the comments made by TBL's friend, and citertainly keeping an ability to speak Thai under your hat has its advantages.

With respect to the use of perogative terms amongst close friends, this is indeed common and common across all levels of Thai society. But there are some rules - the use will always be restricted to the 1st and 2nd person, unless the 3rd person is joining in the discussion AND I know of no occasion when it would be acceptable for a Thai person to address their spouse in the 3rd person perogative terms.

I certainly do not know of any Thai man who would tollerate his wife addressing him so in open convestation amongst friends.

I would also caution against assuming the use of these perogative terms as insults is limited to ex bar girls, it is not, they are used as offensive terms across Thai society. My own last encounter with their use against me was when making a complaint to Thai airways.

I always make any substantial complaint I have regarding service etc in Thailand in English - it puts me at an advantage to do so.

When politely complaining about a ThaiAirways cock-up over my booking, the staff member was efficiently dealing with the complaint but asked the supervisor for some advice - She (the supervisor) had been listening in, and responded with a string of abuse towards me (those self same perogative terms in abundance).

Five minutes later the supervisor, her manager and myself were sitting in a room with the purposes of sorting the problem out. I let her speak first, before giving my side of the story in Thai. I got an upgade.

But they need not have bothered, the look on her face was enough of an apology.

Learning the language is like opening a big window that you could not previously see out of - The view is often interesting, too often dull, occasionally humourous, and occasionally touching - but there are occassions when it is deeply offensive.

I've always found the best response to these times when I hear offensive comments is to respond politely just to let them know you understood perfectly what they have said.

Many occasions have been recounted on TV where the foreigner was being verbally abused in Thai, only for the foreigner to later reveal that he/she understood everything, thereby getting the "apology" look and/or satisfaction.

BUT, that is not the point, in my opinion. Reverse the situation: a Thai is complaining in the US somewhere, and the clerk and the supervisor start referring to him as "it", "bastar.", "douchb.g" (or any insulting term that the Thai is less likely to understand, which btw is the original post intention). Would that be ok with the Thai person? and frankly, would an English-speaking person "take advantage" of that situation? And, by extension, what kind of "class" would that portray on the offending person? Yes, I'm afraid it comes down to "class".

In light of the original post, perhaps we need to remind Thais that they themselves would not like to be called "the foreigner", "it", and much worse, when THEY travel, or live, overseas.

lol! you must have led a pretty sheltered life if you havent heard westerners say horrible things about asians in western countries!!

Oh yes, lol.

1) would a westerner call his Thai wife "it", under any circumstances, in the presence of ANYONE? (read the OP)

2) do westerners in their home country call Thai people, to their face, "foreigner", routinely, 24/7?

3) do westerners, in an OFFICE setting (as per Guesthouse's post), refer to Thais, in their presence, in insulting manner, thinking the Thai would not understand?

So think before you lol.

yes, yes and yes

No, sometime, no.

[AYJAYDEE]

I can concurr with the comments made by TBL's friend, and citertainly keeping an ability to speak Thai under your hat has its advantages.

With respect to the use of perogative terms amongst close friends, this is indeed common and common across all levels of Thai society. But there are some rules - the use will always be restricted to the 1st and 2nd person, unless the 3rd person is joining in the discussion AND I know of no occasion when it would be acceptable for a Thai person to address their spouse in the 3rd person perogative terms.

I certainly do not know of any Thai man who would tollerate his wife addressing him so in open convestation amongst friends.

I would also caution against assuming the use of these perogative terms as insults is limited to ex bar girls, it is not, they are used as offensive terms across Thai society. My own last encounter with their use against me was when making a complaint to Thai airways.

I always make any substantial complaint I have regarding service etc in Thailand in English - it puts me at an advantage to do so.

When politely complaining about a ThaiAirways cock-up over my booking, the staff member was efficiently dealing with the complaint but asked the supervisor for some advice - She (the supervisor) had been listening in, and responded with a string of abuse towards me (those self same perogative terms in abundance).

Five minutes later the supervisor, her manager and myself were sitting in a room with the purposes of sorting the problem out. I let her speak first, before giving my side of the story in Thai. I got an upgade.

But they need not have bothered, the look on her face was enough of an apology.

Learning the language is like opening a big window that you could not previously see out of - The view is often interesting, too often dull, occasionally humourous, and occasionally touching - but there are occassions when it is deeply offensive.

I've always found the best response to these times when I hear offensive comments is to respond politely just to let them know you understood perfectly what they have said.

Many occasions have been recounted on TV where the foreigner was being verbally abused in Thai, only for the foreigner to later reveal that he/she understood everything, thereby getting the "apology" look and/or satisfaction.

BUT, that is not the point, in my opinion. Reverse the situation: a Thai is complaining in the US somewhere, and the clerk and the supervisor start referring to him as "it", "bastar.", "douchb.g" (or any insulting term that the Thai is less likely to understand, which btw is the original post intention). Would that be ok with the Thai person? and frankly, would an English-speaking person "take advantage" of that situation? And, by extension, what kind of "class" would that portray on the offending person? Yes, I'm afraid it comes down to "class".

In light of the original post, perhaps we need to remind Thais that they themselves would not like to be called "the foreigner", "it", and much worse, when THEY travel, or live, overseas.

lol! you must have led a pretty sheltered life if you havent heard westerners say horrible things about asians in western countries!!

Oh yes, lol.

1) would a westerner call his Thai wife "it", under any circumstances, in the presence of ANYONE? (read the OP)

2) do westerners in their home country call Thai people, to their face, "foreigner", routinely, 24/7?

3) do westerners, in an OFFICE setting (as per Guesthouse's post), refer to Thais, in their presence, in insulting manner, thinking the Thai would not understand?

So think before you lol.

yes, yes and yes

No, sometime, no.

you dont know all westerners

[benalibina]

@areyougoodheart.

By posting all these silly comments last, many, hours your postcount will have reached a 1.000 sundayevening. In doubt to achieve that, go to Farang and Pub forum and do Word Association.

You might learn something and it will improve the contentquality of your posts. Good Luck !

[Tchooptip]

I read the OP again...

"She explained to me that's the way your refer to an animal, such as a dog"

hence the post 140: "I think most guys would get upset if they knew their wife was referring to them as a dog in public."

Why such as a "dog" its totally biased, why not better examples, like a cockroach or like a toadstool ?

Then post 140 could have been: I think most guys would get upset if they knew their wife was referring to them as a cockroach in public."

Of course it could also have been "man" that's the way you refer to an animal such as a lion or an eagle

For the little story when I asked my wife I said: "man" is for sunak, meo yes? Yes!

Cannot use for people? Yes your friends like Martin like Denis, but for people cannot.

But for people people you dislike, feel distaste for? euuu... yes maybe!

So for me not sure at all of the "bad woman" meanings...did she mastered herself this word properly?

IMHO the mountain brought forth a mouse

[Tchooptip]

Pot calling the kettle black?

This forum is littered with people insulting Thais.

Has it not occurred to the OP that respect is something you EARN and the attitude expressed by their respective spouses may be well deserved?

Yes, and I personally never forget respect is also something easily lost!

[Darren McKenzie]

Pot calling the kettle black?

This forum is littered with people insulting Thais.

Has it not occurred to the OP that respect is something you EARN and the attitude expressed by their respective spouses may be well deserved?

Yep -- you got it.

This whole thread is more about Thai-bashing and disguised racism than anything else.

The OP comes to a known sex-tourist destination as a single man in his forties. By his own admission, he weighs more than 360 pounds.

What does he believe other farangs will think when they see him?

I can assure you that what they think (and say) is far more insulting than any of the comments made by Thais.

[GuestHouse]

Pot calling the kettle black?

This forum is littered with people insulting Thais.

Has it not occurred to the OP that respect is something you EARN and the attitude expressed by their respective spouses may be well deserved?

Yep -- you got it.

This whole thread is more about Thai-bashing and disguised racism than anything else.

The OP comes to a known sex-tourist destination as a single man in his forties. By his own admission, he weighs more than 360 pounds.

What does he believe other farangs will think when they see him?

I can assure you that what they think (and say) is far more insulting than any of the comments made by Thais.

Which says a great deal about yourself and nothing of significance about the OP.

[Darren McKenzie]

Pot calling the kettle black?

This forum is littered with people insulting Thais.

Has it not occurred to the OP that respect is something you EARN and the attitude expressed by their respective spouses may be well deserved?

Yep -- you got it.

This whole thread is more about Thai-bashing and disguised racism than anything else.

The OP comes to a known sex-tourist destination as a single man in his forties. By his own admission, he weighs more than 360 pounds.

What does he believe other farangs will think when they see him?

I can assure you that what they think (and say) is far more insulting than any of the comments made by Thais.

Which says a great deal about yourself and nothing of significance about the OP.

OH. BIG. YAWN.

Here is a quote from that "Pimp in Pattaya" thread.

As for expats, you should own a hotel in Pattaya and see the "quality" coming over, Some, make dog $hit look good, so really Sharky is in no danger of over doing it.

Tell me, Mr Guesthouse -- when was the last time you heard a Thai compare farangs to dog $hit?

Whether you like it or not, farangs are far more likely to insult other farangs than Thais. Western women, in particular, can be especially scathing.