Govt, Pheu Thai Party play risky game on amnesty

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BURNING ISSUE
Govt, Pheu Thai Party play risky game on amnesty
SUPON THANUKID
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- THE PHEU THAI PARTY AND the government of Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra have finally revealed the motive behind their push for an amnesty bill.

After repeatedly insisting that the bill is not designed to help former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, the coalition-leading party has shown its true colours.

The truth was exposed on October 18 when the special House panel vetting the bill approved a proposal made by Pheu Thai member Prayuth Siriphanich to amend Article 3, which is the heart of the bill. The amendment would extend the amnesty to cover Thaksin's legal cases.

As expected, the move led to strong opposition from all sides. Criticisms were aimed at the government, Pheu Thai and especially the ad hoc House panel. No-holds-barred attacks came from the Democrat Party and all groups opposed to the bill.

Worse still, from the government's point of view, strong opposition was also mounted by red-shirt leaders, who are seen as allies of the administration.

Weng Tojirakarn, a red-shirt MP, told a press conference that the red shirts would not accept the full-fledged amnesty agreed upon by the vetting panel. Weng insisted that the red shirts wanted the government to adhere to the original version of the bill put forward by Worachai Hema, which aims to help ordinary red shirts.

In the face of the immediate and strong opposition, Pheu Thai leaders and some senior members of the government tried to pacify critics by offering explanations for the amendment of the bill. The more they tried to defend the move, however, the worse the government looked in the eyes of the public.

The amendment of the bill to benefit Thaksin shows that the government is no longer shy about pushing for its goals in full. Earlier, the government flexed its majority muscle to push for the passage or approval of certain controversial articles in the charter-amendment bills, despite strong criticisms.

Apparently believing that time is running out, the government has decided it can no longer be timid about its goals. It apparently felt that it would be too late if the government waited for criticism to die down first.

Prayuth tried to defend his proposal by saying that the amendment of Article 3 was not aimed at helping anyone in particular, and that the amnesty bill would not lead to the return to Thaksin of Bt46 billion in assets seized from him. He said he would bet his life on the issue, and insisted the bill would benefit all sides.

It appears clear that the government and Pheu Thai coordinated these moves, and that it was no coincidence.

This can be seen in the fact that on the day the ad hoc House panel voted to widen the amnesty, the government declared that enforcement of the Internal Security Act would be extended to November 30.

Lt-General Paradorn Pattanathabut, the secretary-general of the National Security Council, told the Cabinet that the ISA enforcement had to be extended for three reasons. First, ISA enforcement would deter violence at political rallies. Second, the normal laws would not be sufficient to allow officials to control the situation. Third, ISA enforcement would allow the authorities to prevent protesters from besieging Parliament and blocking MPs from working.

It has yet to be seen whether the mounting opposition and criticisms can persuade the government and Pheu Thai to step back. It is particularly important that the opposition has also come from the red-shirt movement, which has been allied with Thaksin.

Now, the government and Pheu Thai must seriously weigh up whether pushing the amnesty bill is worth the risk of losing support from the red-shirt movement.

If it wrongly assesses the situation, the game could become dangerous - or could even be over - for Pheu Thai.


-- The Nation 2013-10-25

[jcb2001]

The push is on! The government is feeling the pressure from the man abroad. The opposition has not had any luck effectively rallying the masses to put up any resistance to the amnesty steamroller moving through parliament . Thaksin knows this and is getting anxious to come home a free man.

Just heard that Thaksin will be in India on October 27. It appears that all his cronies will be there also for their face time with him.

I hope it's not to late for the opposition to rally the forces. It's now or never!

[NongKhaiKid]

It certainly seems that PTP are under orders to go for it and displays Mr. T's belief in his own infallibility that, on the surface at least, he's not concerned by internal dissent.

I wonder how far the reds will push their opposition or will they be persuaded, for the good of the country, bringing DL trumps all other considerations or will their leaders simply be bought off ?

[Thait Spot]

If the PTP are so sure of their standing, put it to the people or call an election

[Ricardo]

Reconciliation & amnesty for all is the supposed-objective, except that many different power-groups across the political-spectrum appear to reject it, for their differing reasons.

Never mind about democracy, the Bill must pass, for Dear Leader's sake, and who else matters ?

[tomross46]

What do you mean risky, they are only following instructions from above.

[Thait Spot]

Why are all the red shirt firebrands so quiet?

Have theri supposed principles been bought?

Are they sitting on the fence?

[slapout]

The organization/cooperation that the present government has managed to buy, threaten or trade off, to get into place as they see fit, can and does intimadate a lot of the supporters and opposition of said government. This is not a 2 year exercise, as some seem to believe but more than a decade of deciet, trade offs, corruption, etc by the family that is attempting to bluff/out bet the others who have bought into this no limit game.

[waza]

Good to see a bit of independent thought from the redshirt leadership, this amnesty bill is for the benefit of one criminal and should be stopped.

[Robby nz]

Reported elsewhere that Thaksin has phoned Weng and Co and tried to persuade them that the changes are for the good of the country.

More likely he has offered a large inducement not to rock the boat.

I think Thaksin sees that it is important that Abhisit and Suthep never gets to court to face all the trumped up charges.

For if that were to happen then all the true facts that would come out in their defense would implicate both him and the red shirt leaders.

There will be screeds of videos, voice recordings and no doubt a money trail that can only point in one direction.

So it is important that they never get the chance to tell the truth under oath in a court of law.

Hence the blanket amnesty.

[waza]

Thaksin used and abused his heard of buffalos, their days are long passed as we all saw from Yinlicks cabinet reshuffles.. PTP have their majority in the house .. the Shin clan have done with their kwaai.. time to put them on the spit... But , begs the question.. will the kwaai strike back or have their leaders been paid so much behind the scenes that all is already lost..? Long live the King..!

I think the answer to this question was clearly demonstrated when Thida and her husband Weng, tried to resign the redshirt leadership because they were funding the movement from their own pockets and risked going broke. But alas there no one was interested in leading a defunct organisation and there were no takers, one feigning illness to avoid it. Yinglucks had to jump in and give them compensation so the movement didn't go bankrupt and pay their power bill. Now the question is will the Redshirts stick to their guns about a blanket amnesty and bite the hand that feeds them, or backflip and loose all credibility. We have seen the low turnouts the reds get to their protests when no one is funding them so how much of a political threat are they to the Thaksin agenda.

Edited October 25, 2013 by waza

[BuddyPinkham]

Why are all the red shirt firebrands so quiet?

Have theri supposed principles been bought?

Are they sitting on the fence

Of course they have been bought! Money talks here in Thailand (EVERY SO LOUDLY)!

[Lite Beer]

Amnesty Bill sponsor opposes revised version



BANGKOK, Oct 25 – Pheu Thai MP Vorachai Hema, who sponsored the Amnesty Bill, said today he objected to changes to the original version by the House scrutiny committee.

He said he did not vote in favour of the revised version of Article 3 of the bill which grants a blanket amnesty to those who ordered a crackdown on protesters in the 2010 political upheaval, and core leaders in the demonstration.

He said there were differences of opinions in the scrutiny process but the final decision rests with Parliament, insisting that ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra gave every government MP the individual right to vote without giving any special instruction.

“I only voted for some scrutinised articles which are not different from the original bill. I did not follow the majority scrutiny committee in voting for Article 3,” he said.

Jurin Laksanavisit, opposition chief whip, admitted that he was gravely concerned with an amendment to Article 3 proposed by deputy committee member Prayuth Siripanich to pardon every related party on corruption and criminal charges from 2004 to August 8, 2013.

It would void all cases under the jurisdiction of independent organisations after the September 19, 2006 coup, he said.

He declared the Democrat Party’s determination to fight against the scrutiny process and future debate on the bill in Parliament.

He insisted that the Amnesty Bill was defined as a financial legislation, and consequently must be endorsed by the prime minister before parliamentary deliberations.

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said earlier that the Amnesty Bill was unrelated to financial matters. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2013-10-25

[PeterSmiles]

Good to see a bit of independent thought from the redshirt leadership, this amnesty bill is for the benefit of one criminal and should be stopped.

The redshirt leadership doesn't give a damn about Thaksin being cleared of all his crimes, what they are concerned about is that with the revised amnesty bill Abhisit and Suthep will be included.

[ratcatcher]

It would seem this man has a bit of backbone by speaking out on this contentious item.

I wish more people in PTP had the intestinal fortitude to protest and say enough is enough.

[Lite Beer]

Thaksin underestimates sentiment: Abhisit

BANGKOK: -- Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra has underestimated the anti-amnesty sentiment and this might lead to a new round of fight, Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva said on Friday.

Thaksin viewed amnesty as a tool to reset the political situation but his push to revoke the majority rule would, in fact, cause a repeat of political turbulence, he said.

Abhisit was commenting on news reports that Thaksin had instructed Pheu Thai MPs to vote for the passage of the revised amnesty bill.

-- The Nation 2013-10-25

[Thait Spot]

"Thaksin viewed amnesty as a tool"......

He views his sister as a tool

He views the redshirts as a tool

He views PTP as a tool

He views parliament as a tool

He wants to have the judiciary as a tool

He wants to have the press as a tool

He wants to have the army as a tool

He already has the police as a tool

Enough is enough!!!

[gemini81]

"Thaksin viewed amnesty as a tool"......

He views his sister as a tool

He views the redshirts as a tool

He views PTP as a tool

He views parliament as a tool

He wants to have the judiciary as a tool

He wants to have the press as a tool

He wants to have the army as a tool

He already has the police as a tool

Enough is enough!!!

He uses and disposes of people; just like dictators do.

[Artisi]

Sounds like he plays far too much with his tool.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Artisi

[Neilly]

insisting that ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra gave every government MP the individual right to vote without giving any special instruction.

That comment alone shows who's pulling the strings...as if there was the slightest doubt anyway.

I just hope Mr Karma is about to pay him a visit in the very near future before the country tries tearing itself apart once again (something this damn amnesty bill was meant to forestall)

[Robby nz]

Quote

insisting that ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra gave every government MP the individual right to vote without giving any special instruction.

That comment alone shows who's pulling the strings...as if there was the slightest doubt anyway.

I just hope Mr Karma is about to pay him a visit in the very near future before the country tries tearing itself apart once again (something this dam_n amnesty bill was meant to forestall)

Yes Neilly isn't that condescending of the real PM, giving all his MP's the individual right to vote.

But hang on it doesn't say which way he gave them the right to vote.

As in "You each have the individual right to vote for the amendment"

Possibly with the follow up "If you don't your allowances will be cut".

After all he has said that before.

[EricBerg]

"Thaksin viewed amnesty as a tool"......

He views his sister as a tool

He views the redshirts as a tool

He views PTP as a tool

He views parliament as a tool

He wants to have the judiciary as a tool

He wants to have the press as a tool

He wants to have the army as a tool

He already has the police as a tool

Enough is enough!!!

Far from it. He wants Thailand... but will never have.

[EricBerg]

Sometimes I wonder about the health of the missunderstood fugitive. All that meddling and intriguing and all the plotting in secret. All that must have an effect on bloodpressure and his heartcondition. It must be much stress for him that he is depending on others to tolerate him to live where he is living at the moment. And perhaps a later Thai government will not isue the missunderstood fugitive a free passport. Or even try to get him extradicted.

As soon as he realises he can not return to Thailand on his conditions he will crawl into some hole and maintain a very low profile. Only then there will be some more room for Thailand and Thai politics to develop towards a better future.

[Baerboxer]

insisting that ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra gave every government MP the individual right to vote without giving any special instruction.

That comment alone shows who's pulling the strings...as if there was the slightest doubt anyway.

I just hope Mr Karma is about to pay him a visit in the very near future before the country tries tearing itself apart once again (something this dam_n amnesty bill was meant to forestall)

How many democratic countries would tolerate a government that openly admits that it's MPs are instructed how to vote, and its cabinet ministers selected, by a convicted criminal fugitive fraudster who has manipulated the system and places his totally inexperienced sister in the positions of PM & DM and allows her to travel the world, at tax payer expense, pretending that she is really in charge. Nothing is delivered in 2 years in office, plenty of money as been spent with ludicrous accountability and now lies are so open they're considered ethical.

Amazing Thailand - beyond believe.

[h90]

insisting that ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra gave every government MP the individual right to vote without giving any special instruction.

That comment alone shows who's pulling the strings...as if there was the slightest doubt anyway.

I just hope Mr Karma is about to pay him a visit in the very near future before the country tries tearing itself apart once again (something this dam_n amnesty bill was meant to forestall)

How many democratic countries would tolerate a government that openly admits that it's MPs are instructed how to vote, and its cabinet ministers selected, by a convicted criminal fugitive fraudster who has manipulated the system and places his totally inexperienced sister in the positions of PM & DM and allows her to travel the world, at tax payer expense, pretending that she is really in charge. Nothing is delivered in 2 years in office, plenty of money as been spent with ludicrous accountability and now lies are so open they're considered ethical.

Amazing Thailand - beyond believe.

Well in most democratic countries the MP are openly told what to vote. In German the word for it is "Klubzwang".

Means that within one party, or within a coalition all the MPs always vote YES to their government proposals and NO to these of the opposition.

Don't understand me wrong, I don't want to apologize the situation here, I want to point out that in other countries the democracy is also rotten down, just it is not that bad and the show is more professional.

[EricBerg]

Shipping the lass out on a near permanent basis may very well be less expensive than keeping her at home. And it will cost the missunderstood fugitive plenty of time instructing her what to say to the desinterested yet polite foreign politicians on behalf of himself and Thailand. Wear them out, I say. Signs are their clan is shrinking as far as moderate intellectuals are concerned. Next they'll have to prepare some sort of amnesty bill to enable the great Samak to return to office. Keeping a crate of beer and a box of chips ready for when that time comes :

Sent from my SM-T210 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[waza]

insisting that ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra gave every government MP the individual right to vote without giving any special instruction.

That comment alone shows who's pulling the strings...as if there was the slightest doubt anyway.

I just hope Mr Karma is about to pay him a visit in the very near future before the country tries tearing itself apart once again (something this dam_n amnesty bill was meant to forestall)

How many democratic countries would tolerate a government that openly admits that it's MPs are instructed how to vote, and its cabinet ministers selected, by a convicted criminal fugitive fraudster who has manipulated the system and places his totally inexperienced sister in the positions of PM & DM and allows her to travel the world, at tax payer expense, pretending that she is really in charge. Nothing is delivered in 2 years in office, plenty of money as been spent with ludicrous accountability and now lies are so open they're considered ethical.

Amazing Thailand - beyond believe.

Well in most democratic countries the MP are openly told what to vote. In German the word for it is "Klubzwang".

Means that within one party, or within a coalition all the MPs always vote YES to their government proposals and NO to these of the opposition.

Don't understand me wrong, I don't want to apologize the situation here, I want to point out that in other countries the democracy is also rotten down, just it is not that bad and the show is more professional.

Yes most party members will vote along party lines, but usually that party line is determined through consultation with the party members and in accord with the parties mandate and mission statement. However, the PTP party line is set and dictated by a convicted criminal without consultation with anyone.

[lungmi]

Sometimes I wonder about the health of the missunderstood fugitive. All that meddling and intriguing and all the plotting in secret. All that must have an effect on bloodpressure and his heartcondition. It must be much stress for him that he is depending on others to tolerate him to live where he is living at the moment. And perhaps a later Thai government will not isue the missunderstood fugitive a free passport. Or even try to get him extradicted.

As soon as he realises he can not return to Thailand on his conditions he will crawl into some hole and maintain a very low profile. Only then there will be some more room for Thailand and Thai politics to develop towards a better future.

It's not only this you mentioned, but there are too many guns waiting for him coming back to Thailand, from all sides, his "old friends" included..

Edited October 25, 2013 by lungmi

[ratcatcher]

Sometimes I wonder about the health of the missunderstood fugitive. All that meddling and intriguing and all the plotting in secret. All that must have an effect on bloodpressure and his heartcondition. It must be much stress for him that he is depending on others to tolerate him to live where he is living at the moment. And perhaps a later Thai government will not isue the missunderstood fugitive a free passport. Or even try to get him extradicted.

As soon as he realises he can not return to Thailand on his conditions he will crawl into some hole and maintain a very low profile. Only then there will be some more room for Thailand and Thai politics to develop towards a better future.

It's not only this you mentioned, but there are too many guns waiting for him coming back to Thailand, from all sides, his "old friends" included..

Returning heroes may often be accorded a 21 gun salute.

[whybother]

How many democratic countries would tolerate a government that openly admits that it's MPs are instructed how to vote, and its cabinet ministers selected, by a convicted criminal fugitive fraudster who has manipulated the system and places his totally inexperienced sister in the positions of PM & DM and allows her to travel the world, at tax payer expense, pretending that she is really in charge. Nothing is delivered in 2 years in office, plenty of money as been spent with ludicrous accountability and now lies are so open they're considered ethical.

Amazing Thailand - beyond believe.

Well in most democratic countries the MP are openly told what to vote. In German the word for it is "Klubzwang".

Means that within one party, or within a coalition all the MPs always vote YES to their government proposals and NO to these of the opposition.

Don't understand me wrong, I don't want to apologize the situation here, I want to point out that in other countries the democracy is also rotten down, just it is not that bad and the show is more professional.

I was going to say the same as you, but then I read Baerboxer's statement like this:

"How many democratic countries would tolerate a government that openly admits that it's MPs are instructed how to vote by a convicted criminal fugitive fraudster"

That doesn't happen in too many countries, let alone democratic ones.