Thailand will not withdraw its troops from Preah Vihear temple just yet

[oldsailor35]

Security and safety of people in the area .......my ass !

If the Thais do not do as the international court told them and get out, then it is the RTA which will cause the most danger to everybody in the area.

What do they NOT understand. They are utter fools.

[oldsailor35]

i blame the french

and us

Historical claims over territory

To Theoutsider who blames the French !.............did they build the temple 900 yrs ago ?

[oldsailor35]

Taksin most definitely did not "give" Preah Vihear to HunSen.

Preah Vihear has always belonged to Cambodia and a ruling in 1962 by the ICJ confirmed this.

Taksin and Hun Sen had worked out a deal regarding temple management based on the fact that Cambodia owned the temple but Thailand owned the easiest access to it. As bad as these two characters are (very bad IMO) the concept was reasonable and a win win. However the agreement -- as well as the plan to share oil revenues -- was immediately scrapped after the coup, and remains scrapped.

This court case had nothing to do with ownership of the temple. It was about a small scrap of land around the temple which no one lives on and which has no utility other than for access to the temple from Thailand and potentially development as part of attractions at the temple. Even if Thailand had totally won the ruling (they did in fact win about 75% of it), doesn't do them an iota of good. This is all political smoke and mirros.

I wouldn't say "always belonged to Cambodia". It was in Thailand for a few centuries. A 1904 treaty also put it in Thailand. The maps that were later attached to that treaty put it in Cambodia. In 1962, the ICJ decided that Thailand "accepted" the maps. The ICJ just confirmed that ruling.

And pray tell us how long it was in Cambodia long before Thailand was a nation

[whybother]

And pray tell us how long it was in Cambodia long before Thailand was a nation

Not that it's relevant, but I am guessing that it was never in Cambodia before Thailand was a nation, since Cambodia wasn't a nation then either.

[oldsailor35]

Thaksin gave Preah Vihear to Sen as part of a deal for oil and gas concessions in the gulf that personally profited them both.

I accept this as fact but now we see see both the fearless leader and Sondhi with the same opinion... Is orange the next colour of political despotism?

Really, how did you come to this conclusion? As far as I am concerned Thaksin had nothing to do with it, it was all agreed in 1962.

Just ask Khun Suthep and practically any Yellow shirt, Thaksin is responsible for just about anything that has happened in the last 100 yrs or so !

[oldsailor35]

Scenario..........Malaysian troops are being moved over the borders of southern Thailand because they are concerned about the safety and well being of southern Muslims.

Would the Thais say "This is OK" as long as you move out in a few years time.

[whybother]

Scenario..........Malaysian troops are being moved over the borders of southern Thailand because they are concerned about the safety and well being of southern Muslims.

Would the Thais say "This is OK" as long as you move out in a few years time.

The Thai army isn't moving across the border to protect Cambodians.

[Thaddeus]

Thaksin gave Preah Vihear to Sen as part of a deal for oil and gas concessions in the gulf that personally profited them both.

I accept this as fact but now we see see both the fearless leader and Sondhi with the same opinion... Is orange the next colour of political despotism?

Really, how did you come to this conclusion? As far as I am concerned Thaksin had nothing to do with it, it was all agreed in 1962.

Just ask Khun Suthep and practically any Yellow shirt, Thaksin is responsible for just about anything that has happened in the last 100 yrs or so !

Don't be so dramatic, it's just under 15 years.

[jacko45k]

So Thailand will only accept rulings from the International Court of Justice if they go her way???

That is the impression they create.

[jackr]

Thailand, forget face, you have been told and have no experience in war... get you butt out of there!

[SantiSuk]

There has just been an international ruling that says the Thais are now on an others sovereign territory. It does not seem up for negotiation, there is no choice, pack up, leave and retain at least a little dignity. Yingluck is obviously scared of the nationalist backlash when the TV media show Thai troops withdrawing from the border with their tails between their legs. Catch 22 created by you know who.

Does everybody think Yingluck made that decision as Minister of Defence. With her in that position, Thaksin also has direct control of the Military. Pity he will be Billy no mates soon.

"Thaksin also has direct control of the Military".

Really? I suspect nobody truly controls the military and who they might respond to would depend entirely on the circumstances of the moment.

[CqK]

And pray tell us how long it was in Cambodia long before Thailand was a nation

Not that it's relevant, but I am guessing that it was never in Cambodia before Thailand was a nation, since Cambodia wasn't a nation then either.

I'm of the impression that the Cambodian people are descendants of the Khmer Empire, that the Siamese invaded the Khmer Empire taking its lands, a lot of its culture (including what's now termed Thai classical dance) and Khmer people as slaves. If Cambodians are descendants of the Khmer, I'd say they've been a nation considerably longer than the Thais/Siamese.

[whybother]

And pray tell us how long it was in Cambodia long before Thailand was a nation

Not that it's relevant, but I am guessing that it was never in Cambodia before Thailand was a nation, since Cambodia wasn't a nation then either.

I'm of the impression that the Cambodian people are descendants of the Khmer Empire, that the Siamese invaded the Khmer Empire taking its lands, a lot of its culture (including what's now termed Thai classical dance) and Khmer people as slaves. If Cambodians are descendants of the Khmer, I'd say they've been a nation considerably longer than the Thais/Siamese.

And what about before the Khmer empire?

[CqK]

And pray tell us how long it was in Cambodia long before Thailand was a nation

Not that it's relevant, but I am guessing that it was never in Cambodia before Thailand was a nation, since Cambodia wasn't a nation then either.

I'm of the impression that the Cambodian people are descendants of the Khmer Empire, that the Siamese invaded the Khmer Empire taking its lands, a lot of its culture (including what's now termed Thai classical dance) and Khmer people as slaves. If Cambodians are descendants of the Khmer, I'd say they've been a nation considerably longer than the Thais/Siamese.

Change that last line to read, "If Cambodians are descendants of the Khmer, I'd say they've been a nation considerably longer than Thailand/Siam". Thanks.

[Robby nz]

Robby nz, on 12 Nov 2013 - 19:30, said:

I wonder if all you posters who know all about this could explain to me exactly where the Thai Army is?

As I understand it the only suggestion or implication that they are, or have been for a long time in the actual temple, is the headline of this topic.

I have seen nothing anywhere that indicates that the Thai Army is in the area that the ICJ has just said belongs to Cambodia.

The army were there, when this ruling was being deliberated on, in order to A. Protect Thai sovereignty should there be any incursion, B. To help and protect local people who live in Thailand, but not in the disputed area, should there be any problems and C. To ensure that none of the loony nationalists, who have talked of violence. do not turn up and make trouble.

Seems to me that these reasons for them being there are still valid.

There is now also the clean up aspect with unexploded mines, shells etc in the area which will need the expertise of bomb disposal teams from both countries.

The ICJ has not demarcated any border, other than in the immediate vicinity of the temple leaving this up to negotiations between the 2 countries.

I doubt there are any Thai army in the actual disputed area however if those who 'know it all' can show proof that they are then I would believe that proof.

Hun Sen's telling Thailand to get out is only posturing for his own people to show what a big man he is by ordering Thailand around.

He needs an image boost as he has problems of his own with protests over what his opposition claim was cheating in the recent election.

Didn't the ICJ in its ruling say thast the area is well defined as there is an escarpment around 3 sides of the temple??

So TPI are you telling me that Thai troops are in the area that has been defined by the ICJ as belonging to Cambodia, if so please produce proof.

I read also that army commanders from both sides have met and have been having meetings for some time to discuss the situation and to ensure that there is no confrontation.

So what really is the problem other than a chance for army and Thai bashing by all the 'know it all' posters.

[chooka]

Get out of Cambodia before you are thrown out with force or is that what Thailand wants? Is Thailand waiting to say they fired the 1st shot and they have a right to retaliate even tho they have stationed their troops in someone else's country uninvited?

[simple1]

Security and safety of people in the area .......my ass !

If the Thais do not do as the international court told them and get out, then it is the RTA which will cause the most danger to everybody in the area.

What do they NOT understand. They are utter fools.

If I understand correctly the term "vicinity" in the ICJ ruling regards the Promontory is the definition in contention that is being reviewed by the Thais and for the moment subject to further negotiation. The bottom line is a difference of 250 square meters of terroritory, as highlighted in a front page article in todays edition of the other English language newspaper.

Edited November 13, 2013 by simple1

[khwaibah]

Security and safety of people in the area .......my ass !

If the Thais do not do as the international court told them and get out, then it is the RTA which will cause the most danger to everybody in the area.

What do they NOT understand. They are utter fools.

If I understand correctly the term "vicinity" in the ICJ ruling regards the Promontory is the definition in contention that is being reviewed by the Thais and for the moment subject to further negotiation. The bottom line is a difference of 250 square meters of terroritory, as highlighted in a front page article in todays edition of the other English language newspaper.

Bangkok Post front page.

[simple1]

Security and safety of people in the area .......my ass !

If the Thais do not do as the international court told them and get out, then it is the RTA which will cause the most danger to everybody in the area.

What do they NOT understand. They are utter fools.

If I understand correctly the term "vicinity" in the ICJ ruling regards the Promontory is the definition in contention that is being reviewed by the Thais and for the moment subject to further negotiation. The bottom line is a difference of 250 square meters of terroritory, as highlighted in a front page article in todays edition of the other English language newspaper.

Bangkok Post front page.

I have previously mentioned the newspaper by name and was deleted by mods with the comment; not permitted.

[JCauto]

I remember a big fuss being made when Abhisit decided not to immediately withdraw troops in 2011.

Did the ICJ state a timeline for the Thai troop withdrawal? The other newspaper quotes an unnamed military source that Thai troops will withdraw in the "next year or so"

Yes. It was "immediately". So I guess in the Thai context, this means some time in 2014, maybe.

[EricBerg]

Houston, we have a problem.

[kingalfred]

Must be hard for Thailand to accept a decision that does not go in its favor,Usually its a temporary event that can be changed by the color and an amount of money.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[whybother]

I have previously mentioned the newspaper by name and was deleted by mods with the comment; not permitted.

You can't link or quote, but you can mention or paraphrase.

[Gummigalgen]

making the worst out of a messed up situation.

Best would be to accept the ruling, withdraw, congratulate Cambodia and forget the case.

Worse would be to not accept it and declare that it is Thai soil and try to hold it.

Worst make both things half....yes accept...everything good but we don't take the troops out.....at the end Thailand loose the land, make Cambodia angry and looks foolish.

We, Thais, consider the International Court in The Hague as a very juvenile club with people who do not even study the topic. Therefor we step up the plate and take a more mature approach, according to the Learnings of Great Lord Buddha, and ship more arms, vehicles and planes to the area. It is so close to Ubon Ratchathani where military top is based, that we can accept the temple standing there for more than 10 years. And we do not need the permission of Ms. Yingluck because we simply overrule her, when the situation justifies it.

[colomboserb]

And pray tell us how long it was in Cambodia long before Thailand was a nation

Not that it's relevant, but I am guessing that it was never in Cambodia before Thailand was a nation, since Cambodia wasn't a nation then either.

I'm of the impression that the Cambodian people are descendants of the Khmer Empire, that the Siamese invaded the Khmer Empire taking its lands, a lot of its culture (including what's now termed Thai classical dance) and Khmer people as slaves. If Cambodians are descendants of the Khmer, I'd say they've been a nation considerably longer than the Thais/Siamese.

Change that last line to read, "If Cambodians are descendants of the Khmer, I'd say they've been a nation considerably longer than Thailand/Siam". Thanks.

I learned from wikipedia that Thai/laos/cambodia/ people is from an immigartion out of china for 3000 years ago ...one province that struck to be very poor at that time.. The waves wen tto Thai/Laos , Cambodia/burma

And south india and ASAM , which are boardering to Burma, The people are called Sha in india and looks exactly like Thai people.

Basicly if you look atthe look of thai and cambodias you understand they have not been in these hot climate lands for long time, Cos there faces are still prepared for COLD, smal eyes, flat nose, flat face.

That is typicaly look for cold area people like Eskimos, Chinese, Mongols, North european natives, American natives. Same with the europeans they are created for hot climat, big eyes, relative big nose (to get in enough are to cool the organs) , , but the skin have envolved faster to be light, give it 10 000 years more europeans will have basicly smal eyes and flater faces, cos to fit in the colder climat in Europe. and not in Persia/India.

So basicly before Khmer... Then i indians was there building a hindu empire with Ashoka And by the way the name Cambodia is comming from one of the 3 biggest persian warrior tribe called Kambojas , which was located in todays Pakistan. They was supposed to have came to Cambdia, that is why the name means the land of the Kambojas... Anyhow, some khmer might have some indian genetics still i dont know.

That is what i belive.

Edited November 14, 2013 by colomboserb

[millwall_fan]

There has just been an international ruling that says the Thais are now on an others sovereign territory. It does not seem up for negotiation, there is no choice, pack up, leave and retain at least a little dignity. Yingluck is obviously scared of the nationalist backlash when the TV media show Thai troops withdrawing from the border with their tails between their legs. Catch 22 created by you know who.

Does everybody think Yingluck made that decision as Minister of Defence. With her in that position, Thaksin also has direct control of the Military. Pity he will be Billy no mates soon.

I think you'll find that the military are the one institution Thaksin never did control and his sister still doesn't. The defence minister does not control the Armed Forces. no-one does. They are a state within a state.

I'm sure the Thai 'border patrol' will withdraw as soon as they can do so without losing face. There'll be lots of yah-boo sucks. Thai can do. Not need Farang court. Then they'll slip away and Channel 5 which the army own, will show soldiers armed to the teeth 'defending Thailand' from 1mm outside the territory awarded to Cambodia by the court.

Edited November 17, 2013 by millwall_fan