Citibank Building Elevator Plunges - Three Killed

[elkangorito]

1. I'll listen to Bronco when it comes to matters on lifts.

2. I'll be taking the stairs from now on.

[rotorbreeze]

typical of Thailand, no insight on possible preventative accidents, like passing on double lineup hill, you can expect more accidents of this nature as this is Thailand, go go...forget about saftey..life is not valued. With 14 million in BKK it is a small loss of life, more people die in traffic accidents during the day than the life lost in Iraq in fighting.

[wamberal]

The unnecessary loss of life is always sad. Thailand has a huge loss of life annually through accidents, particularly traffic accidents.

You cannot spend a day in Bangkok without observing criminally reckless behaviour by somebody on the roads.

There is some kind of suspicious belief that if it is your time to die, you cannot prevent it anyway, so why try?

[Joey Boy]

1. I'll listen to Bronco when it comes to matters on lifts.

2. I'll be taking the stairs from now on.

RIP to the guys in involved and all that. But if satety procedures are followed this simply shouldnt happen, I wonder which other jobs this particular team has been involved in recently. If a BKK elevator has Hitachi stamped inside, im doing a u-turn

[Narratio]

I just dragged out a specification on Hitachi elevators. I've no idea as to the model, but there's at least 3 braking systems in a typical passenger cage installation. The first being a brake on the cable and pulley system drum, a second being sort of sprung arms that wedge out onto the cage guide rails and the third is a safety interlock onto the elevator cage motor control. Any or all would have kept the elevator from falling.

For this accident to have happened, something truly bizarre (or downright stupid) was happening. Most likely a quick, cheap fix to some other problem was underway. Proably ordered by somebody who didn't really understand what he was doing.

Impossible to say really, and the plublisehed truth will be... not what really happened. I'm sorry for thier families, I'll bet their dead family will be blamed, rightly or wrongly, and no insurance will be forthcoming.

[Pink Mist]

I will repeat myself, Hitachi put out a good product and there are heaps throughout asia, from the information given thus far they were changing the ropes and they had removed all of them (bad idea) we usually change them one at a time.

[English Noodles]

Sorry to hear of such a tragic accident and we certainly dont know all the facts of what has happened but one thing worth noting though maybe not applicable in this case is the fact that competition for maintenance contracts is so intense that many companies bid far below what it will cost them to do the work, and then skimp on services after they win the contract.

[astral]

When discussing with my students some of the differences between the Thai culture, and the American culture, the topic was manners. Thai people do not seem to say please, they certainly do not say thank you. A man does not hold a door for a woman, nor let her on the elevator first or anything remotely like it. Rarely am i given a seat on the bus or train by a Thai man, and often a young man will take a seat almost right out from under me. My tone must have seemed bitter, for on the BTS ride home, I sat with one of my students where she asked me, or rather stated it seemed I didn't like Thai people. I do like Thai people. Some of them are just wonderful, friendly, helpful, warm, inclusive with their activities and show that they want to involve me, and seem genuinely excited when I show up somewhere a foreigner is just not expected to show up. This made me rethink about my projected demeanor and attitude about the Thai people and remember why I am here, to do something for the Thai people I really like. I would like people around the world to think of the Thai people as polite and wonderful people. I have to remember they are who they are and we can only lead by example. What i see here seems to be people that don't really think much of the Thai, which leads me to wonder why they are here. Is living in Thailand really all about warm weather, cheap services and easy girlfriends? I see bandwagon mentallity of Thai people bashing and wonder what good it does. There is truth behind everything we say. There is no such thing as just kidding. I think the Thai people have to work with whatever they have, which in the past, and to a real extent still, isn't much. I give them credit for being a happy bunch of people considering the available resources offered to them. Remember, the minimum wage is 184 baht a day, having some education would certainly pay more, but they work with what they have, I give them credit for that. Just a thought.

It is the conflict in the individual mind that manifests as war. When individuals change, the society will automatically change.

— Amma

Since you are talkng about manners.

It is not good manners to hijack someone else's post................

This topic is about an awful accident involving an elevator,

NOT Thai culture and manners.................

[Pink Mist]

Sorry to hear of such a tragic accident and we certainly dont know all the facts of what has happened but one thing worth noting though maybe not applicable in this case is the fact that competition for maintenance contracts is so intense that many companies bid far below what it will cost them to do the work, and then skimp on services after they win the contract.

and that doesn't only happen in LOS, but in this case Hitachi was doing the right thing and replacing ropes (my guess) and it all went out of shape

believe me nobody wants to grab a contract and get stuck with a rerope

[jdinasia]

'Thai mechanics... says it all really.'

Simple, yet oh so accurate.

Funny how a woman brings up the 'not standing for them' stuff, yet they want all the other equal rights. Sometimes sweety you just cannot have your cake and eat it as well.

A justification for bad manners? Is being a gentleman a thing of the past? We all have the equal right to stand on the bus or train with a bag of teaching materials and books, purse, groceries etc. Equal rights is an uncountable noun. What does that include? Equally discourteous to all, or doing the same job as a man and getting paid the same? I have given up my seat to someone with more than I had to carry just so they would be guaranteed a seat when I got off. Lead by example, not by excuses. Personally I have never understood why monks are given seats. I respect them for being who they are, like everybody else, and like everybody else, I see them sleeping in parks or where ever, enjoying a cigarette, and like many others looking for handouts. Save the anti-religious comments because I am a buddhist, a follower of Christs teachings, not the Christian religion mind you, a student of Vedic studies and a vegetarian of 30 years. I am an activist for equal rights, you can count on that, everyone should be treated with respect equally considering the source of everything, not equal disrespect. Overweight 10 year old children can stand as easy as anyone else, maybe easier considering children are far more active by choice. What does this have to do with elevators? Observantly nothing.

OI .....

what was she thinking posting this HERE? But geeze .. since all I know about elevators would fit in a single post ... "you get in .. push a button ... get out!"....

Our friendly teacher forgets that "manners" are not absolutes across all cultures. She whines that Thailand is not the West ... then dismisses standard Thai good manners in her next breath. Common courtesy demands that people in Thailand offer their seats to the elderly ... or children (small ones) and monks or mae chee. Simple ... ((NOT just to random women))

Now ... if you want to make a point to a guy that is sitting (after having worked at whatever REAL job for 12+ hours ... and you are carring a satchel ... ask him to hold your satchel .. I am sure he'll oblige

Edited May 7, 2006 by jdinasia

[bquick]

Well where them guys studied mustn't be all that great.

Safety first eh. maybe it's an omen.

[bulmercke]

This has got to be one of the scariest threads I've read here on TV.

I have a "Banned In America" VCD which shows video footage of a lift accident.

On this occasion the lift had stopped short or past where it should have stopped and a gap was left of about a foot or so at the top where someone could climb out. The doors were open.

Guess what?

One of the passengers (a male) attempted to haul himself through the gap to get out and whilst he was halfway (i.e. half in - half out) the lift started up unexpectedly and his arm and some of his torso on the same side was ripped off by the force. The guy was dead. Looked like it was somewhere in Central America or Asia.

Horrific. Only watched it once, then binned it.

Lifts can dangerous things.

Imagine the terror those poor men must have experienced on Saturday, during the descent!

Also, I've always had an uneasy feeling when I've felt there have been too many people in a lift for comfort. Would the weight of a crowded lift snap the ropes? Those maximum persons warning signs that you see in every lift always appear to be overly optimistic.

What if a whole load of fatties entered at the same time?

I'd sure as hel_l push through them and get out, whatever floor, and wait for the lift to come back up or down!

>>>>>>

Off topic a little. A few years back I was in Cambodia and read a story in one of their newspapers about Cambodia's first escalator that had recently been introduced into one of Phnom Penn's department stores.

Apparently the department store had posted an attendant at both the top and the bottom of the escalator to assist passengers getting on and off.

Asked how things had gone on the first day, the manager replied that most customers had got the hang of it, though there had been some who had tripped coming off.

And one woman customer had even fallen down after tripping.

I had to laugh!

Edited May 7, 2006 by bulmercke

[Pink Mist]

Lifts are the safest form of transport in the world, the myths that surround them, take the movie "towering inferno" only fuel the fire.

Most accidents occur to the people that work on them and all "accidents" are avoidable.

[frotty]

lots of safety when working on a lift, safety stop button should be off,if working on top should be switched to test so nobody can use, also should be block tackled to top of lift shaft so cannot go anyware,also safety cut outs top and bottom shaft which should stop it,wonder what went wrong,frotty

[elkangorito]

So many experts!!! Just how many of them are qualified (one way or another & excepting Bronco) to make suggestions about how to perform maintenance?

I am a Facilities Manager for a large building in Sydney. It has a total of 2 goods lifts & 5 passenger lifts. Since the occupancy of the building has doubled in the last 18 months, the lifts have frequent break downs as they were only designed for a building occupancy of 1500. The building occupancy is now 2800. The floor space of the building is about 65 square kilometres (65 000 square metres).

I am in charge of all maintenance within the building & as a consequence, I must apply 'due diligence' & 'duty of care' for all contractors. These are 2 key phrases within Australian OH & S regs.

Whenever I receive word that a lift is malfunctioning, I personally switch it to 'fire mode', which brings it to the ground floor & renders it inoperable by building occupants.

When the lift contractors arrive, I quiz them thoroughly about their procedures & instruct them to inform me of any likely 'dangerous works' that are suggested to be carried out. Such works will not be carried out unless I am satisfied that all the safety measures are in place.

Whilst all of this is good in Australia, the same situations may not apply elsewhere. Now that more info about this tragedy has come to light, my suspicions about the maintenance of the lift in question, have been revealed. I suggest that the ultimate cause of this tragedy was not the failure of the lift technicians to perform the required reparation works (although it may seem obvious that they did not perform their work safely), but the failure to carry out routine maintenance correctly. Such failure can perhaps lead to 're-roping' the lift but possibly could have been avoided if routine maintenance had been carried out correctly in the first place.

Incidently, the building that I manage is about 16 years old. How old is the building where the tragedy happened?

[gretyl]

I am terribly sorry for the victims and their families.

As to accidents, conjecture regarding blame or cause is seldom accurate.

Thailand doesn't have a corner market on questionable accidents.

Construction Mishap Kills 3 in Florida

By JESSICA GRESKO, Associated Press Writer2 hours, 58 minutes ago

"A support frame collapsed at a high-rise construction project Saturday, killing three workers who became trapped in quick-drying concrete as co-workers dug to try to free them, authorities said.

The workers were on the 27th level of the building, pouring its concrete roof, when the supporting frame structure below them gave way, dropping them to the 26th floor, said Capt. Al Cruz of Miami-Dade Fire Rescue.

A 3-foot layer of hardening concrete completely encased one worker and partially buried the others, fire rescue officials said..."

This link gives the rest: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060507/ap_on_re_us/high_rise_deaths

Me thinks the financial piece of these two accidents will have entirely different outcomes for the victims' families.

[mr.buffalo]

Having worked for Otis elevators many years ago I have done or did many rope changes.

The counter weight was at the bottom of the shaft and the car was suspended by a block and tackle to a beam incorperated into the design of the head gear. Bronco we did remove all ropes at once as the car was suspended by said b/tackle but the speed governing cable that activates the rail grab dogs was never inoperable at rope change.

I will be interested to know how this terrible event occured and measures to prevent a repeat.

[meadish_sweetball]

Personally I have never understood why monks are given seats.

I never understood this either. It always blows my mind when i'm on a packed bus and some 25 year old monk gets on, and a 60 year old woman has to get up and stand just because she cant even sit next to him.

(Nothing to do with the elevators i know)

Monks are given seats because they actively devote their lives to spreading and living the doctrine of Buddhism, thus increasing the collective religious merit for everyone - or so it is believed. Giving up one's seat in favour of a monk is something people do willingly and with a feeling of gratitude at being able to do so.

Please stay on topic. This is about a tragic elevator accident. If you want to discuss cultural differences you are very welcome to start a new topic in the General topics forum.

[Jai Yen Yen]

.... the speed governing cable that activates the rail grab dogs was never inoperable at rope change.

But, is it POSSIBLE to make it "inoperable at rope change"?

[Johpa]

As one who is not a lift mechanic, this tragic incident does raise a few questions in my mind. What type of repair would be done on the 25th floor of a 35 storey building? I can't imagine they randomly chose the 25th floor to replace the ropes. If there were survivors, we are certainly not talking about a freefall situation, are we? I would imagine that if there swere urvivors then the lift must have dropped at a fairly slow speed and that implies there was some braking being applied, but the brakes were not adjusted properly to allow for a complete stopping of the lift.

Is my uneducated mind that far off the mark? Ok, please respond to that question on this topic only!

[Bottlerocket]

Ouch...................

I thought all lifts had automatic braking systems to prevent this happening?

Yeah, well, they also caused a collision on the subway and that has a 0.01% chance of happening...but somehow they managed to conquer the odds.

[mr.buffalo]

Yes it most certainley is possible to disable that safety feature.

[Jai Yen Yen]

...Is my uneducated mind that far off the mark? Ok, please respond to that question on this topic only!

Who knows for sure?

Noppadol Meesuk, 28, Somjet Sirisuwan, 49, Kittisak Kittpongpittaya, 29, were killed instantly from the impact of the crash, said police.

The men were on the top of the elevator car when it suddenly dropped.

Kiangkrai Meesang, 30, was critically injured with a severed right arm while Thani Thahom, 25, suffered minor injuries.

My guess is that the survivor had his arm torn off by a cable/rope travelling at high speed and connected to the falling lift. Until we get more information, we cannot be sure. But this and the fire at Pataya's Route 999 make it a bad day for safety in Thailand.

[mr.buffalo]

Your guess is misfounded and " guesse's " as such are detremental to all reading and following this thread and give rise to speculation and rumor and can even hamper the official investigation.

[mr.buffalo]

As one who is not a lift mechanic, this tragic incident does raise a few questions in my mind. What type of repair would be done on the 25th floor of a 35 storey building? I can't imagine they randomly chose the 25th floor to replace the ropes. If there were survivors, we are certainly not talking about a freefall situation, are we? I would imagine that if there swere urvivors then the lift must have dropped at a fairly slow speed and that implies there was some braking being applied, but the brakes were not adjusted properly to allow for a complete stopping of the lift.

Is my uneducated mind that far off the mark? Ok, please respond to that question on this topic only!

As you said " not a lift mechanic " so why make speed/freefall/slow speed/IMPLIES/ I repeat

" not a lift mechanic ".

[mr.buffalo]

I must admit this topic is making me angry with the speculation and innuendo about " thai lift mechanics " as though accidents don't happen throughout the word coupled with uneducated guesses.

[Toni]

Broken elevator plummets 20 stories in Bangkok, killing 3

BANGKOK: -- An elevator being repaired in a Bangkok high-rise malfunctioned and plummeted more than 20 stories, killing three mechanics on board and injuring a fourth, police said.

Preliminary investigations showed the mechanics were working on the elevator on the 23rd floor of the Citibank building in the Thai capital when it suddenly plunged to the basement, an officer at Bangkok's Thung Mahamek district police station said.

The officer spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorised to speak with the media.

Further details of the accident were not immediately available.

--AP 2006-05-06

Three men are killed when an elevator plummets

BANGKOK: -- Three mechanics were killed on board when an elevator they repaired in a Bangkok high-rise malfunctioned and plummeted more than 20 stories.

The fourth mechanic who lost his both arms was rushed to a nearby hospital.

Initial investigation showed the mechanics were working on the elevator on the 23rd floor of the Citibank building in Bangkok when it suddenly plunged to the basement.

--The Nation 2006-05-06

More info as we have it

coincidence, or.....

Yesterday I noticed, that my (Thai) wife either her daughter knew about the tragic accident and to-day a friend read it in a Dutch newspaper. His Thai wife did not know either.

Are only the Bangkok Post and The Nation giving ALL the news in full???

[Jai Yen Yen]

Your guess is misfounded and " guesse's " as such are detremental to all reading and following this thread and give rise to speculation and rumor and can even hamper the official investigation.

Twaddle.

In fact , george has already posted an explanation for the 4th man's injuries, which I missed:

Update:

Elevator kills three in 25 floor fall

BANGKOK: -- An elev..... the only survivor, Thani Khamhom, was inside.

Ktiendkrai said Thani managed to throw himself out but his right arm was trapped by the falling lift....

So my guess was wrong, but to think that the "official investigation" would be hampered by what we are saying here is ridiculous.

Edited May 7, 2006 by Jai Yen Yen

[jdinasia]

We were at Koh Si Chang and heard about it 30 minutes after it happened .... so .....

[jdinasia]

I must admit this topic is making me angry with the speculation and innuendo about " thai lift mechanics " as though accidents don't happen throughout the word coupled with uneducated guesses.

Huh?

The elevator was disconnected on on a sling .... people died .... simply it was done wrong (not a "little wrong" but BADLY wrong that resulten in tragedy